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2022 BFCM Recap & Dec. Prep | Whale Webinar #011
Published on
Jan 9, 2023
Saunder, Logan and Rabah do a review over some BFCM metrics and then we jump into what you can do to make your December uber awesome. We also take some Q/A from our viewers.

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2022 BFCM Recap & Dec. Prep | Whale Webinar #011

Saunder, Logan and Rabah do a review over some BFCM metrics and then we jump into what you can do to make your December uber awesome. We also take some Q/A from our viewers.

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Live CRO Breakdowns with Shaun Brandt from Oddit | Whale Webinar #012

The fellas break down a bunch of landing pages, homepages and PDPs in this complete CRO breakdown with Shaun Brandt.

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Rabah Rahil (00:05):

All right, beautiful people. I am so sorry. I need to change my, I'm just falling apart. Um, <laugh>, I was on Shopifys or Shopify. Shopify, goddam it, Spotify, uh, wraps. But, uh, they're actually really cool for the podcast as well. Uh, it's really neat. Um, so anyways, thank you so much for joining us. We have a bunch of awesomeness. So I got some Black Friday Cyber Monday data that has been triple checked. If you get the joke, you get the joke. Sure. Uh, and then <laugh>, uh, we can talk about Saunder's mind blowing experience in Egypt and how that will roll into a powerful, uh, December. Um, and then we just got a bunch of awesomeness to go through as well with Logan. And Ole Miss is still doing well, right? You guys are, you guys are kicking it. Oh, really? You guys fell off.

Saunder Schroeder (00:56):

They just lost the egg bowl, man. Where you been? Well,

Rabah Rahil (00:59):

Oh, you did? Oh, no, I've, I've been inundated with World Cup. I had to go go back to real football. Um, but, uh, really? Oh, no. Probably gonna hit that

Logan Brown (01:10):

Bloody Saturday for the, uh, US soccer team matchup.

Rabah Rahil (01:15):

Let's go. I know I was watching, I, I actually, uh, cleared my calendar for, um, <laugh> yesterday. <laugh>, what a savage move for, um, making sure that I could see the game, but, um, okay. Amazing. Let me pull up some Black Friday. I guess let's just start with you two. What was your guys' take before I break this data out for you in terms of Black Friday, cyber Monday? You think it was better, or you think it was worse? What, what was your, what would your sediments be? We'll start with you Saunder, and then we'll go to you Logan.

Saunder Schroeder (01:45):

What a what a great, what a great way to, uh,

Rabah Rahil (01:48):

Oh, look

Saunder Schroeder (01:49):

At this guy. Segue into it.

Logan Brown (01:51):


Rabah Rahil (01:52):

Pretty face.

Logan Brown (01:53):

Everybody take the poll.

Saunder Schroeder (01:56):

Take the poll. Yeah. I'm actually curious. It felt, so Logan and I were talking, um, about this before. To me it was interesting to see how much more email and s m s messages and emails I was getting this Black Friday said Monday. Yep. So I think some people were very creative with that. What, say that

Rabah Rahil (02:20):

Clavia went down. Clavia went down for like an hour on Friday. No blame. I got the email way. No, not great. Not great, Bob, sorry to cut you off. So, lots of emails. S m s keep going. Your vibe is impeccable. I love it.

Saunder Schroeder (02:33):

Yeah. So it was, uh, yeah, that, that's probably what I noticed the most. Maybe, maybe because I wasn't on social media as much during the holidays, so that's, that's more what I was seeing over and over and over and over again. And I think some people were creative with it and saying, okay, here's our last one, we promise, you know, kind of thing. <laugh>. So I, I appreciated the ones who did that. So, yeah, I mean, I think, I think people are just trying to get more and more customers and emails before the holidays and then really, you know, lean into that clavio lifecycle marketing. So that's, that's one, I mean, it always happened. I've just never seen it to this extent where pretty much every brand, I don't know, I probably, I'd say on average got eight emails or texts over, you know, the, the holiday period, which seemed a lot higher than anything I've seen in the past.

Rabah Rahil (03:27):

And can I ask, were these brands that you had engaged with, or were these like zombie brands that, like you put in an email like two years ago and then all of a sudden they're like popping. It's like, uh, I always liking them to like alumni associations where it's like you never hear from your alumni association and then you do, it's like, Hey, you wanna donate some money, Logan? You're like, what the fuck? I haven't, I haven't had anything to do with my university in years. And then all of a sudden it's like the cousin coming up to you that you won the lottery. Like, Hey, by the way, you wanna throw some money into the university. So was it brands that you had interacted with that you were happy to get the, or were the these almost like solicitations?

Saunder Schroeder (04:02):

I'd say 80% were probably brands I've interacted with. Um,

Rabah Rahil (04:06):

Okay. So that's good then. That's good.

Saunder Schroeder (04:08):

Yeah, I, I mean, I try to unsubscribe from brands I'm no longer interested in. So it wasn't interesting to see some of those brands like get through that haven't emailed me in a while, you know, and you're like, oh, actually, you know, okay, I'll, I'll look and see actually what you guys have. But, you know, so it

Rabah Rahil (04:25):

Worked. The next follow on question, did you convert on s m s or email? Did you throw any money into the economy? Were you a good consuming American?

Saunder Schroeder (04:35):

So, funny enough, I added a lot of things to Carp, but I never purchased <laugh>. Just like

Rabah Rahil (04:40):


Saunder Schroeder (04:41):

Yeah, I don't, I'm like, I don't know, maybe I'm, I'm going through an interesting time where, I don't know, kinda like the essentialism. I'm like, do I really need this? Am I really gonna wear it like multiple times or use it multiple times? Like, or do I just want it? You dunno. And I like the brand, you know, so yeah, kind of going against my,

Rabah Rahil (05:03):

For people that, for people that don't know, uh, Saunder is probably one of the most spiritual gangsters at the company. Very, very enlightened man. So now he's on the, the minimalism quest. So I can, I

Saunder Schroeder (05:14):

Don't accept that title. <laugh>

Rabah Rahil (05:16):


Logan Brown (05:17):

Documentary is awesome, by the way. I, I kind of want to do that, but I, uh, I don't know if I can,

Rabah Rahil (05:23):

I did that when I was younger, but it was more so I outta a necessity cuz I was broke. And so it was a way to say like, Hey, I don't need all this stuff. It, it's definitely helpful for sure. I think there's, there's a lot of honor to being able to, uh, live lean. Um, but that ain't me. I like my toys, I like my stuff.

Logan Brown (05:43):

I'm always going to like my one pair of salvage Deni, my one pair of Nike Tom Sack shoes that I can do anything in. <laugh>. Got my five white tees. It's

Rabah Rahil (05:52):

Cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But now there is there the, you, if you haven't done it, you should definitely try it. Um, because it, there is a cleansing feeling to it. Um, and then you can kind of build back up to like what you actually need in terms of, because Essentialism is a little more different than minimalism. Minimalism is like, you, you basically get rid of everything. Essentialism is like, why do I need the thing? Um, and I have a reason for it. But anyways, we're into the super weeds now, but before I jump to you, Logan, what do you guys think? So we ran a survey of our stores. How many stores do you think started, uh, their Black Friday Cyber Monday sale before Black Friday? Gimme a percentage. 99%. Oh really? 99 started early 99%. No way. Come on. You're in the 99 percentile. What is this? The prices, right? You're going a dollar here? What? What kind of guess is that?

Saunder Schroeder (06:45):

I'll go 80. He's way over in that case.

Rabah Rahil (06:48):

I know. Well, the kids don't get the joke. Yeah, they're too young. They don't get it. Uh, you're probably a Duke carry prices, right? I'm a Bob Barker. I'm on price. So you're going 80, what are you going 80% of stores started their sale before Black Friday. Cyber Monday.

Saunder Schroeder (07:02):

Do you count Thanksgiving night as Black Friday or are you saying it has to be that Friday?

Rabah Rahil (07:07):

Well, we stopped the, uh, survey in, in app on Thursday. So Thanksgiving is uh, uh, a, uh, like a no man's land where we didn't have the survey running.

Saunder Schroeder (07:18):

Okay. That's

Logan Brown (07:19):

Where my 99,

Rabah Rahil (07:20):

The survey

Logan Brown (07:21):

<laugh>, they all did it on Thanksgiving. No, I don't know. I'm still going 80%

Rabah Rahil (07:26):

Early. 80%. Okay.

Saunder Schroeder (07:28):

I'll go 79.

Logan Brown (07:30):


Rabah Rahil (07:32):

The price is right, vibe 55%. So pretty even split 55% started early. Hmm. So not, not, not everybody, but to be fair, this was about 800 responses. So not, not our total. Um, but that's not a, not not a nothing burger, you know what I mean? That's not a nothing thing. Yeah. Oh yeah. Okay Rich. So talk to me. So you, how did the extension go? I always love this. Okay. Did nice. Yeah, so the same email's terrible, but I do, it's always funny cuz you see these founders. So when I was running my agency, and I'm sure you've, when Sandra you were running all these big accounts and I'm maybe at section one 19 as well, Logan, you see all that money coming and you're like, why don't we just run it for another day? Let, let's go. Um, did you get, did, did anybody get you with an extension? Did you get got Saunder or you still you stayed in the ATCs? Nothing.

Saunder Schroeder (08:26):

I just stayed. I don't know. I feel

Rabah Rahil (08:30):

Got me.

Saunder Schroeder (08:31):

If you want, I'll, I'll get into my personal life for a second. Not, not too personal, but I just, we, we literally went through our kids' playroom and probably threw away a hundred pounds worth of toys.

Logan Brown (08:43):

Oh my

Saunder Schroeder (08:44):

Gosh. So we filled up like, I don't know, 10 garbage bags and just like simplified it into like eight bins, you know? So it's like we're, we're kind of doing that in our closets and everything and just like, so I'm just at that like yeah, that point in life where I just don't want more things. We're trying to like clean up and declutter. So no, I'm sure next year will be very different where we did buy a lot of, I, I guess I shouldn't say we didn't buy anything. We did buy a lot of like presents for siblings and family and stuff like that. Just nothing. Yeah. For us really. Some kid stuff a little bit too as well. But yeah.

Rabah Rahil (09:19):

Amazing. Mickey Davis in the chat has some big brain moves. You do the attc and then you get the email for the percent off. That's a, that's a big brain move there, Mickey. That's a great call. Um, Kenny, that's also a good point. I don't, I didn't hear any rumblings. Um, especially compared to last year with the uh, uh, getting caught in the canal and stuff like that with some supply issues. Uh, I did not hear, uh, that through my network anecdotally. Uh, I don't know if that was just because people were very flush with cash and they bought a bunch of product from earlier this year and then they had to get rid of inventory. But, um, I didn't hear about a bunch of people's products sitting, uh, in the ports, uh, on, on in LA or what have you. Um,

Saunder Schroeder (10:03):

He's Logan, he's asking, he's asking the inverse, Rob, if, if the companies who did better this year did they have inventory issues last year and that's why they did better this year.

Rabah Rahil (10:13):

Did they have product last year or was a majority on the boats in the port? Like

Logan Brown (10:18):

They do better this year cuz they actually had inventory. Did do you think that would better Cause they had inventory.

Rabah Rahil (10:24):

Oh, great point, Kenny. Okay. I'm tracking. I see. That's why I got these beautiful, beautiful humans getting it done. Um, what was your, what was your take Logan? What'd you buy?

Logan Brown (10:36):

Uh, yeah, I mean, nothing for myself really. You know, I have a baby now, so there was some baby stuff that my wife wanted, clothes and such that were on sale cuz we have a hard time buying like full price baby clothes. Um, yep. <laugh>. But, um, yeah, I mean in general, I, oh, going back to last year by the way, with Clavio, I do remember s m s I don't know if you wanna call it going down, but it was weird. You were like building SMS campaigns and they had this like notification on there that said, Hey, our queue is super backed up. Like this thing probably won't go out for a few hours. Um,

Rabah Rahil (11:08):

Yeah, I remember that too.

Logan Brown (11:09):

You couldn't send texts like right on the money. You had to like wait and it was like, I don't know, whatever you call it, disaster or whatever. But I understand. Um, yeah, I, I didn't, I don't know if I saw anything that was crazy unique this year. Um, I I really like Huckberry, like that's an Austin brand. Um, so I followed along with them. Of course I used to work at Chubby, so I followed along there cuz yeah, I was, I was there when they were doing, when they, within their first couple of years of doing like what they called Fiber Monday, which was one of the more unique a

Rabah Rahil (11:41):


Logan Brown (11:41):

Chevys things I saw. It was a lot of fun. Like every hour they would release a new gift with purchase instead of doing discounts. Um, but now the brand, they, they do dis discounts and they do gifts, so it's kind of wild. But, um, Huckberry started out last week doing a heavy, pretty heavy discount on their most popular item ever, which was interesting. So they were giving like $75 off their most, their most sold through product, um, their most popular. So that's how they started. And then they kind of rolled out different deals throughout the weekend and then Monday had its own thing. Um, so that kinda like helped keep someone like me interested in coming back to the site. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, even though I didn't convert, I still wanted to check it out. So that was neat. Um, and yeah, like the last mile, like, um, extra email seems to always be the thing to do.

I, I told Saunder it, it sparked an, an idea in my head to create some sort of like cohort analysis next year for Clavio. So we could see, like I, I would love to see all triple whale who's in Clavio, what were the open rates, you know, over the weekend. Like, do we see this massive tailwind where it starts to come down as and then like maybe spike back up on Cyber Monday and like, what are the unsubscribed rates? Are people just like, are is does sending the extra email really like, hurt you that bad? Or is it like, uh, they just don't care and they're gonna leave it alone?

Rabah Rahil (13:08):

Yeah, that's a great point. So I actually, um, going back to again, my agency days, we hired this, uh, email person and he was actually fairly good, but his thesis was you can't send too many emails. That is absolutely not true at all. And so there was the first month, um, we did like 50% more revenue than like la like it was, it was very substantial. And then after that first month, basically we were just bleeding subscribers where he, cuz he would send like, basically like five, almost an email every day. And like there would be these recap, blah, blah, blah. So, um, anecdotally you can, but it might be less sensitive because it's, there's an expectation setting of like, I know I'm gonna get inundated. Um, but that, that's actually some really cool data we should dive into. Um, that's very cool data. Richard makes a really good, uh, point as well where I'm very, very aligned with that as well.

Shout out Looksy. Let's go best, uh, sneaker boxes in the game. We actually have our hockey jersey getting framed by them. It's, it's in route to HQ right now. Um, but the crazy discount stuff does, uh, discombobulate me as well. I like just to clean and cut. Like, here's what you get, here's how to do it. Go buy some stuff versus like, you know, touch your head, get your thing here, make sure that you cut some blood and put it on the pen lin or what is it? Pen? What's the Pentagon? What's the, what's the five point star? Remember? Come on sa you know this. Yeah, I do know. What is it called? You're not gonna give it to me too soon

Saunder Schroeder (14:41):

With all the Balenciaga stuff going down.

Rabah Rahil (14:43):

Oh. Oh my gosh. You had to go there, didn't you? You had to go there. Unbelievable Pentagram now. Pentagram. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. And we're moving and we're moving. Um, but yeah, I think that's definitely a big learning is making sure that the cognitive load is pretty low for the sale where you get in and get out. Um, but uh, those are really good points. Logan, I'll, I'll hit the data. I'd

Logan Brown (15:04):

Love, I'd love to

Rabah Rahil (15:04):

See that really interesting thesis.

Logan Brown (15:07):

Yeah, I don't, I don't know, I mean the email thing but also the tiered discounts. I mean like from an ad perspective I kind of got hit up by the same few brands and uh, like one I've never bought from, but I've always kind of been interested in their content, which was Miles Apparel. They're based outta San Francisco, kinda like an a leisure brand. And then the Built Basics team, I don't know if they're a customer of ours, but I got a bunch of their ads like over and over and over, um, which was fine. I like their stuff, but I never bought anything. Yeah. Um, yeah,

Rabah Rahil (15:37):

Like cuts is always strong.

Logan Brown (15:39):

Yeah. And then I saw like, um, yeah, cuts was a little different too cuz I got served some ads where it seemed like, uh, not talking head, but like full body, like there was a human talking to me where other ads were way more like, it was almost like product on background and like, here's what the discount is. So I thought they had a different strategy. I'm not sure how it worked out for them, but um, maybe it depended on where I was in the funnel too. Um, and then the tiered thing, there's a really big brand that I like a lot called Freefly Apparel. Okay. And they've done the tiered thing for five years in a row and they stick with

Rabah Rahil (16:13):

It. Yeah.

Logan Brown (16:14):

Yeah. So I don't know if like maybe it works for some brands and not others or maybe they just haven't tested that, that type of discount versus just going flat rate. Um, I don't know. I'd love to see some testing data there like Google optimized. Like what if you showed some customers the tiered and some just the, the blank what would happen, you know?

Rabah Rahil (16:34):

Yeah. That's a good, I'd also like to see, cuz uh, there was some threads running around on Twitter that, um, people didn't discount at all and they did really well. Um, and so

Logan Brown (16:44):

I'd be curious like how that works.

Rabah Rahil (16:46):

Yeah, I'd like to see this understand kind of the challenge would be how do you normalize, right? Like how do you know if it's not the brand or the website or whatever, but like the, it's interesting because I think that's a really great point of having, you know, if it works, it works, but it could always work better kind of stuff. I don't know. You, you, you're making some really interesting points and it's really firing up my data brain to see how we could look at that. Or maybe we can even pull some of our customers and say like, Hey, what, you know, what type of discount did you run? And then what did you see in terms of performance? Or we can just even look at the numbers and be like, here's what the discount, like pull people and like, did you run a tiered discount?

Did you run no discount? Et cetera, et cetera. Categorize them and then look at, um, those cohorts and, and understand what the performance was, um, in comparison. But it's really good stuff guys. It's really good stuff. Okay, let's jump into some actual data here. Okay. Do you think gmv, so GMV is gross merchant volume, essentially revenue. Um, and Richard, you're right. Cuts his fire. Um, Steven, we're trying to get Steven to come to the way Lisa to speak. Really, really interesting guy. Um, do you think Black Friday, cyber Monday GMV was up or down? Or actually this

Logan Brown (18:03):

Is just, I'm gonna cheat. He's already saw it. They

Rabah Rahil (18:04):

Didn't Oh, you already saw it. They didn't gimme the, ah, damn it. Okay. This is just Black Friday. I'll have Cyber Monday in a, in a later pitch for you guys. Gosh darn it. Okay, so this is just Black Friday. So, we'll this is, this is the teaser for the the whale weather report that you guys have to uh, watch later this week. Yeah. Okay. So you already know sa what do you think? G M V up or down?

Saunder Schroeder (18:28):

That's saw, I saw Toby's tweet and the president's tweet. So

Logan Brown (18:32):

What was it up like 2 billion this year compared to last year?

Rabah Rahil (18:36):

Yeah, well I'm talking to our stories. Yeah, Shopify was up to be fair though. Shopify was, um,

Logan Brown (18:42):

I saw where there might be some skewing skew, like skewed data based on some shops, some large shops. They brought on two big

Rabah Rahil (18:48):

Two big one, a big Canadian store called Giant Tiger. They're like, I think the biggest Canadian store or like they're, they do real numbers and then Glossier or Glossier, how do you say it? Saunder, what's the fancy way? Glossier. Glossier. I

Logan Brown (19:01):

Always thought it was Glossier.

Rabah Rahil (19:02):

That was French. Glossier, Taje amk.

Saunder Schroeder (19:06):

Um, our stores, I'm gonna say up by 7.2%.

Rabah Rahil (19:14):

Ooh, great. Guess and Logan, you know, so you don't get to guess. So give you guys context. So Shopify did 2.9 Billy in 2019 in 2020 5.1. Billy in 20 21, 6 0.3 Billy and in 2022, um, 7.5 Billy. Um, so that's a, that's a lot of money. That's, that's definitely not nothing. And I don't know if this is actually lore or not, but supposedly that's where the name Black Friday came from was that, um, the department store that would run that sale that Friday's sale would push them into the black, which would mean profitable versus the red, hence Black Friday.

Logan Brown (19:53):

Interesting. Okay.

Rabah Rahil (19:54):

Little, little fun fact, I, I'm pretty sure that's right. It could be marketing lore, but I'm pretty sure that is correct. So we'll leave that fun fact for you there. Okay, so let me get back to, so you 7.2 and Logan doesn't get the guest cuz he knows where did I pull this out? Where did I go here? Sorry, I gotta get my, my data together. I need more juvie. Have you guys had these

Saunder Schroeder (20:15):


Rabah Rahil (20:15):


Logan Brown (20:15):

No, we don't get to million. For all of you watching the, if you're, if you ever visit Austin, please go by the office. There's every amount of beverage and snack you could imagine there. Yeah,

Rabah Rahil (20:26):

Yeah. Alexa and Colin, keep it, keep it tight, keep it right. Okay. So this is only across our US stores, um, because we had a little bit of a data flub up, um, when we did some currency sync conversion and stuff like that. Hence, um, the old data gate controversy. But this is across all around 20, 2500 US stores. Um, we have about 7,000 on the app. So this is about, uh, a little under half of our sample size, but, um, 20 plus 28% GMV from this Black Friday to last Black Friday. It's pretty strong. It's pretty, it's very, very healthy. Um, super healthy. Okay, what else do you guys have for spend in terms of Facebook? Up or down?

Logan Brown (21:11):


Rabah Rahil (21:11):

I'm going up. How much? Okay,

Saunder Schroeder (21:13):

How much, you said, what did you say? Revenue is up by 2028.

Rabah Rahil (21:17):

28% plus 28%.

Saunder Schroeder (21:19):

42%, 42% increase in Facebook. Oh,

Rabah Rahil (21:22):

Aggressive. I like it. Logan.

Logan Brown (21:25):

Yeah, I was going like 10% increase.

Rabah Rahil (21:28):

Okay. Yeah. Uh, 23. So healthy. A little bit of a, almost a quarter, quarter up. Pretty strong. Yeah. Uh, Googles

Logan Brown (21:38):

So one

Rabah Rahil (21:41):

Max there only year over year comps for Black Friday. I will get you, I have all the data, it's just not crunched. Um, but I do have Black Friday, cyber Monday. I'll, I'll tell you what, everybody that attends this webinar, I'll send out, um, the actual proper numbers to you, um, either later today or maybe Thursday. Um, cause I just have to crunch it. But we have all that data. I just have the Black Friday, cyber Monday. Delta's already done. Um, what'd you say? Google's, what'd you say? Saunder?

Saunder Schroeder (22:08):

Um, ooh, 28%.

Rabah Rahil (22:13):

Ooh, aggressive Logan.

Logan Brown (22:16):

All right, so good for Google. Maybe not so good for the brands, but I'm saying performance Max rollout gave them a, uh, let's go 18% increase. And

Rabah Rahil (22:26):

Oh, you should got more aggressive. Your thesis was correct. You just didn't go hard enough to paint. This is pretty mind blowing to me. 43%.

Saunder Schroeder (22:33):

I should have switched my numbers for Facebook and you

Rabah Rahil (22:36):

Should. Exactly. Yeah, you got wrong. It's a substantial amount. So, uh, I, and to your point, I definitely think it's on the back of Pax, but that's a, that's a substantial amount. Um, the long

Saunder Schroeder (22:46):

Loss, I will say the, the accounts or the customers I've been working with, uh, this week mm-hmm. <affirmative>, their performance. Max Roaz was insane. Like,

Rabah Rahil (22:57):

Yeah, bonkers. And if you crazy,

If you guys don't know, um, you can reach out to customer service and book a get nerdy with Saunder call. Um, if he has time, he is sensational. He'll go over your account with you. He is absolutely stellar. One of the smartest humans I've known. Um, and a really great guy. Just a really fun call. So, uh, definitely get on with him. We also have a, um, his counterpart that he is bringing under his wing, Alejandro, who I just, I had a great call with today. You did a great job with that kid. He's a fucking killer. He was amazing. So solid. You guys do want somebody to look at your account, just reach out to cs, ask for a get nerdy session, and Saunder, Alejandro will happily go through your numbers, bring you some insights. Um, yeah, that's what I've seen too. Um, that Google's has been a very, very good buy for a lot of people. Um, on the back of Pax, which is interesting, um, 43.5%. That's a lot. All right, ticky talkies, this is interesting cuz Ticky talkies has kind of fallen a little bit outta favor. They, they caught a lot of flack on, um, on the socials where, um, what was TikTok

Logan Brown (24:03):

At last year was, was there much of an ad platform last year? I guess it was there right

Rabah Rahil (24:08):

Ish. It was there, it was usable ish. It's definitely in a much better place now, the challenge that I'm hearing is that it's very good at certain niches and certain AOVs, if you get outside of that, it can drive a lot of attention, but not a lot of intention. Um, and so it's becoming, and it's really challenging to keep it alive. It's like owning an ATV versus a horse. Like they kind of both do the same thing, but ATV's like Facebook where you can use it when you want, or a horse, like no matter you're using it or not, like you're feeding this horse, you're grooming this horse, you're housing this horse. Um, and so the creative just dies really quickly on there. So all things being equal, you'd much rather have a Facebook creative succeed versus a TikTok creative because the TikTok creatives can die. And they're very much akin to like carbon fiber, where it's like, especially when you get into the high spending days, you just don't know when it's gonna die. Whereas Facebook has some kind of signals of like, okay, this creative is coming to the end of its life cycle where TikTok is just one day, you know, partying and the next day it's like dead in a drain pool somewhere. So, um, challenging there.

Saunder Schroeder (25:20):

Nobody does analogies like you back to back.

Rabah Rahil (25:23):

Very vivid kids. Let's go. I'm filling it. This Juvies got me going. He wrote that way.

Saunder Schroeder (25:29):

I'll add with TikTok what I see a lot. Make sure you have a post-purchase survey cuz a lot of people will go straight to Google and so it's like 10 outta 10 times it's, you see hundred percent so many post-purchase survey responses for TikTok. So we've

Rabah Rahil (25:46):

Got one, well put free

<laugh>, it is free. Look at the, like these, these guys, these guys are good. Um, yeah, so get a post-purchase survey installed that was one of our, uh, black Friday Cyber Monday tips. Cuz not only that, um, if you do have something like no commerce or something like that, or faring, um, you can do some subsequent questions as well to take advantage of all this traffic that you get to really build out some, some theses around, um, your product objections, et cetera, et cetera. Avi does a really good job of that, where their post-purchase survey has like three to five questions. And what's cool is, uh, and not to plug no too much, but Jeremiah's a good dude. But, um, no will actually, each question you answer, it will record that answer versus, uh, most people you have to complete the whole questionnaire to take that whole payload.

So, um, even if somebody only answers one or two questions, you'll get those, those answers versus, um, a a lot of other services you have to do that. Or to Logan's point, if you just wanna do, do, uh, an enhancement to your pixel attribution, toss on that free post-purchase survey from triple L and get going. Um, 25%. So 25% up year over year. Uh, it's still minuscule on our stores compared to, so if Facebook is like orders of magnitude, then it's Google and then Ticky Talks is, uh, it's not really in the ballpark, but it's, it's, it's above the other channels in terms of pins and Snap. Um, but Facebook is really the monster. And then Google's real money as well. Um, TikTok is still, I think like maybe half a billion dollars or something like that. It's, it's very, very small compared to Google and Facebook.

Um, pins. Oh, oh, Matt's dropping some, oh, hold on. We got, let's go here. What do we got here, Matt? All right, we're, we're, we're taking a sidetrack breaking news here, um, Hume, is that how you pronounce it? Shme? I'm sorry if I'm butchering your name, but yes, you'll get sent this post hawk, absolutely. Um, okay, let's go through Matt's stats real quick and then we'll jump back to Pnap. Okay, so Matt is running a, oh, look at Matt. We should just have you on to present. This is amazing. Okay, so small D two C brand Black Friday, a really simple sale, 30% off Sitewide was, uh, Matt, will you let us know, was that discount code or was this automatic discount? How did you do your Sitewide sale? And then Cyber Monday was 20% off Sitewide Auto applied my man, you gotta love those auto applications. There's just something so fulfilling to when you get to the payment page and then you see that discount applied. I, it's, it's very, I I love that. Okay, so our November stats 31 K in ad spend. Okay, so you spent a significant amount less, hold on, 56 K,

Logan Brown (28:36):

They, he spent a,

Rabah Rahil (28:38):

Oh no, no, you did better. You did better. Sorry, I flipped it. Yeah, yeah, I flipped it. Sorry, sorry, sorry. So your 2021 performance was six K ad spend. Um, 11 K in ad revenue, 56 K in total revenue. Um, not bad, not, but kind of a smaller scale. And then you go to big boy leagues here, so 31 K in ads, 93 K in Revs, that's really good. Or in ad conversion revenue. And then a buck 63, 20% mer. That's strong numbers, man. That's really good. That's very, very impressive. Um,

Saunder Schroeder (29:11):

Can I, can I ask you if that's Pixel Roaz or Platform Roaz?

Rabah Rahil (29:15):

As far as, yeah. Is that in platform or Pixel? Uh, Matt. Hmm. Ah, my man. Let's go, let's go T dubs for the win. Good work. Um, that's strong man. That's really good. That's great. That's really strong product expansion plus integrating t w this year for better reporting. That's strong, man. That's a very, very good. Um, and then we have, uh, Sarah, they did 40% of their revenue through email marketing. I actually, uh, an old client of mine, um, actually they did a lot through, uh, email and SMS through Clavio. Um, to be fair, they had a massive, massive list. Um, so, but that's, that's really impressive, Matt. That's awesome. We should, uh, let's get connected offline and maybe we'll do some sort of, uh, case study or something. I'd love to see this set up cuz that that's, that's very, very healthy growth, man. Very congrats. Especially in the faces of this quote unquote recession downturn, whatever we're going through. So that's, that's really amazing. Uh,

Saunder Schroeder (30:16):

For your next one, let's do a prices right in the chat for free merch or something.

Speaker 5 (30:20):

Oh, look at this guy.

Rabah Rahil (30:22):

Not just a pretty face. I knew you'd come back with some stuff from Egypt. Um, okay. <laugh>. So he just went on this really cool Luxor, he sent me this pyramid stuff. It looked awesome. It, it was very cool. It looked like in a really amazing trip. How trippy though is that they don't tell you that the pyramids are like two feet away from Cairo. It's like a fucking, there's literally a highway that goes to it. You on e

Speaker 5 (30:44):

Everybody only posts the photos looking out. Nobody posts the

Rabah Rahil (30:48):

Photos of the pyramids with the city in the background, which is incredible. That's wild. Um, but, uh, yeah, really. Okay, so for, we did TikTok, so we only have two and these will be fun. Okay, so Pinterest, people that want to go, let me know what do you think Pinterest was Black Friday, cyber Monday up or down and throw some percentages in the chat. Um, will give you guys like five to seven seconds and then, um, you'll get some free merch. Speaking of, did we send you guys the jammies collab? We did a collab with jammies. You wanna talk about like the craziest comfortable sweatpants? Okay, Saunders, 21% where you guys, if someone else guesses

Saunder Schroeder (31:31):

That, I'll, you can

Rabah Rahil (31:33):

Take this spot up. 15 down 5%. Okay, three more seconds and then we'll take these answers. Um, but we'll send you guys out some jammies. They are, it's like a bunch of like micro midgets, like just massaging your legs. These are the most comfortable sweatpants you've ever had. It's the, I've

Logan Brown (31:52):

Got the shorts. I love some pants. I got the shorts.

Rabah Rahil (31:54):

They're, well, they, they, they're whale tailed as well. They're amazing. They're awesome. What do you mean? Like

Logan Brown (31:58):

There's tail on the pan.

Rabah Rahil (32:00):

The whale tail. We did a collab with Jam's proper. Like there's an oh

Logan Brown (32:04):

Whale tail. I thought you meant you put like a real tail on the back of

Rabah Rahil (32:07):

The pan. No, no, you know,

Logan Brown (32:08):

Like a

Rabah Rahil (32:08):

Little, okay, okay, we're gonna close the bidding. 3, 2, 1, uh, pins was actually up pretty healthily. Uh, 29%. So sand, you can't win any swag. You get swag. No. So Benzion, benzion, um, ping me, Rob, uh, triple whale, send me your size, um, an address. And then if you are international, I'll need your email as well and just send those three things over to me and we'll get you some uh, nice little swag pack picked out. Um, amazing. Ooh, Matt, you're dropping your link in here. Let's go. I might have to buy some stuff. Um, okay, in the last channel, um, this is good old Evan Spiegel, which is who, who's super rich, but it's really crazy to see how incredible Snapchat is on product and how terrible of a business it is. Um, which is fascinating. Um, okay, Snapchat up or down, plus or minus.

What do you guys got? Throw the guesses in the chat. Closest guests. Guests. Some more. T w swag. We have incredible merch by the way. Very happy with our merch. Up 20 Ben. And going for the double the double dip. Who else we got? Dan, what are you gonna throw in there? Let's see. Dan, what do you got? Sandy's plus 31% up 15% plus 15. Um, you guys know it can go down too, right? This isn't like housing prices. Your house can't go down. That's 2008 joke. Come on people. Tough crowd. Tough crowd. Uh, okay, going one oh oh lb took the bait. Okay, three more seconds and then we'll close the bidding. Nobody else. Rich Silver, where you at? You don't want you'all? Want any swag? Let's go, let's go. Let's getting there. Richard. Confirm

Logan Brown (34:02):

Our Cyber Monday deal. <laugh>. <laugh>,

Rabah Rahil (34:06):

Okay, um, snap was brutalized. It was down 30%. Oh, not a, not a great ad buy, not a great ad buy for anybody in candidly. I don't know anybody that's spending any type of money on Snap. It's, it's just, uh,

Logan Brown (34:23):

How are they still worth challenge? Multi-billions. Aren't they worth a couple billion right now still? Uh,

Rabah Rahil (34:28):


Logan Brown (34:29):

See. Their users are growing and their daily active

Rabah Rahil (34:32):

Users, they're crazy Haircut. Uh, yeah, they took a crazy haircut.

Logan Brown (34:35):

They're public, right? So I mean they have to make money. Course,

Rabah Rahil (34:37):

Of course. So, uh, I mean 15.89 Market Cap, Billy. So it's, you know, that's not a nothing company. Um, but they're trading around $9 and 85 cents. So, uh, not great. Not great. Yeah, <laugh>, uh, I, I feel you Richard. I have, uh, I'm, I'm the same. I have not been on the snappy in a while. That snap maps are really cool. The product was cool. It was just, uh, yeah, it just wasn't, wasn't it? Um, okay, who, who are we gonna give? All right, Dan and uh, Zach, just, just cuz you guys are awesome, you participated, hit me up with your, uh, address and size, [email protected] and we'll get you hooked up. You guys rock. Um, yeah, so I, I'll get you guys all the Black Friday, cyber Monday stuff, but that is Black Friday proper. Um, just to recap, GMV was up 28%, so very, very healthy for our stores. Um, this is only U S D stores. Facebook spent up 23.3%. The goos with the monster Black Friday, 43.5% up. Um, ticky talks up 25%, pins up 29% and Snap uh, was down 30%. Um, black Friday this year compared to last year. So, um, that is what's up. Um, and then aov,

Saunder Schroeder (35:56):

Short snap, short snap call, Google,

Rabah Rahil (36:01):

Possibly, I mean, I mean it's pretty impressive. I think Google is definitely screaming and then honestly like maybe you buy some Facebook as well cuz Facebook is still the best ad buy out there. Like there's nothing even close. I mean again, TikTok spend being up is great, but it's still, I don't, I mean have you found any accounts, Saunder that people's channel mix is different than Facebook, Google, I don't know anybody's top channel that's TikTok. No. Especially big spenders.

Saunder Schroeder (36:30):

I'd say 90% is Facebook then Google. So I didn't meet with one today. That was Google, then Facebook and

Rabah Rahil (36:38):

I've seen that a little bit as well. If they have a strong email and they have some other stuff in the ecosystem. I've seen people go Google first, uh, as well. But, uh, I have yet, especially if you can get shopping going, sometimes it can really start to pump out some decent numbers and it gets you, um, some more spend there. But, uh, and then a o v up slightly about 8.67%. So, um, from 98 bucks to Buck oh six. So yeah, I mean overall really great Black Friday, cyber Monday, especially when you consider the, the macroeconomic effects. But um, this is kind of netting out in Shopify's data with the caveat that they brought onto massive, massive stores that can absolutely skew the averages. Um, but uh, pretty solid. Um, maybe

Logan Brown (37:20):

We can talk them into, um, I'd be curious if, uh, cuz I know we, we talk to those folks sometimes or AJ does, so I'd be curious if we could talk them into sharing, um, the growth based on cohorts. Like show us the growth of brands that were under 5 million, 10 million, something like that would be interesting to get

Rabah Rahil (37:38):

Those out there. A hundred percent. Yeah, I mean that's where you could get into some median stuff or some other statistical analysis or to your point, cohorting it by run rate or something like that, um, to see if the bigger stores or the smaller stores did better or worse. It's really interesting

Logan Brown (37:55):


Rabah Rahil (37:55):

The list, Matt, you're just running away with a we need to bring you up on stage or something. People can't get enough of you layman. Let's go. Amazing. You

Logan Brown (38:03):

Know, what else's interesting about Matt's store? I don't wanna call him out here. I wonder if he's also doing, uh, print on demand, which would save him a bunch of costs on actually buying product.

Rabah Rahil (38:13):

These are cool <laugh>. Oh my gosh, I need to get one of these. You had me,

Logan Brown (38:18):

Matt, are you print on demand? Are you saving on all costs? Basically you're just spending on, on social.

Rabah Rahil (38:24):

Okay. This is making it into the gift guide. This is making it into the gift guide. This is strong Matt. Oh my god. Ftx ftx. No, Saunder. You gotta get one of those <laugh>. That's amazing. That's good. Oh my gosh. Maybe Matt's

Logan Brown (38:41):

Integrated. He may maybe he maybe he buys all the blanks. He has it on his own.

Rabah Rahil (38:45):

Let's go. Oh dude, we gotta buy some of these. I'm definitely getting some shirts. This is hilarious. Matt, these are amazing. There's some onesies. Oh my gosh, this is great

Logan Brown (38:57):


Rabah Rahil (38:58):

It's great. Earnings before taxes, debt and amortization. Let's go fully depreciated still in use. This is amazing. <laugh>, these are hilarious. Oh, that's good. Amazing. Uh, yeah, post the code. Let's go save some people some money. Uh, okay, we have 15 minutes left. How and what shall we do to make people ready for the new year as well as December? How do you guys wanna run that?

Logan Brown (39:30):

Yeah, I mean I think we were talking a little bit about like what a strategy could look like for the rest of the year. Um, and then going into January and I, I figured I would just give, like I always have whatever personal advice I have from what I did in the past. Um, highlights would be that continue to run my sales <laugh>, um, pretty much through the first week of December. And then I would kind of pull back from email a little bit. Like I wouldn't go crazy and send five emails a week for the next three weeks, but as you come up on Christmas or Hanukkah, whatever the buying season is for you, um, really drive home the last days of shipping because that ad that actually ended up working well to our favor, that's very, we would send like, hey, you can get free shipping, but the, let's say the 16th was your last day for that because it was like a seven day U S P S. And then we'd be like, the next day is like the two to three day cutoffs coming up, the one day cutoffs coming up. And then, um, we would do a decent amount of revenue on gift cards, uh, up until Christmas Eve, people who just needed a last minute gift, um, and they could buy digital gift cards. So that was our play for December last year.

Rabah Rahil (40:46):

I like that urgency. Play the gift cards is interesting. That's interesting. How, and so how do you identify Logan if you have a strong gifting vertical? Like how do you know if people want to buy gifts or not? Is there any way to understand that or should you just know that from your business? Or like how do you No, no, I, does that make sense what I'm saying?

Logan Brown (41:07):

Yeah, well it's funny, it <laugh>, I, I brought it up in an earlier, um, an earlier webinar we did, but I, in my post-purchase survey, I, I would ask a question. Uh, the second question was, you know, who are you purchasing for yourself or for someone else? So, because

Rabah Rahil (41:24):

That's interesting.

Logan Brown (41:25):

But yeah, ours was more like a, like I, like I think everybody, whoever's a repeat listener here, we sold like a fan of like fan apparel for bands, right? So it was very important to us understand am I talking to a fan, like someone who gets it or am I talking to like the mom of a fan and she's buying for a son that is a big, is a big fan. So like we would, we, we had like 50%, 60% gifters people who are buying for the fan in their life. So I would add that to your survey that's, that's interesting to your business. Um,

Rabah Rahil (41:56):

That's a brilliant, that's a super stellar tip.

Logan Brown (42:00):

But also I think with email and sms, one of the cool things to do is like, you can always forward an email, right? So even if you're not the one buying the gift, if you want someone in your family, if they're asking like, what should I get Bob this year? It's like, just forward that email along and be like, this is it right here. Hook me up with a $50 gift card.

Rabah Rahil (42:19):

Oh, I love that. That's fantastic. What about you Sandy? What you got for us?

Saunder Schroeder (42:25):

You stole my thunder. That's that's exactly good. I would recommend, I I think you can do some cool things though to capitalize on the urgency play. So, um, maybe some more like personalized emails are like, you know, did you enjoy X product you bought? Um, or are you getting x are you getting compliments on X product you bought by for the people complimenting you, you know, before December 17th or whatever, 10% off coupon. Like kind of keep it going that way. Um, but yeah, that the gift card angle, once you hit like the 17th, 18th, I actually don't know what's the last big weekday in December. Probably the 16th would probably be that cutoff

Rabah Rahil (43:07):


Saunder Schroeder (43:08):


Rabah Rahil (43:08):

And definitely talk to your third party if you get fulfillment or whatever, they'll tell you the cutoff date and maybe even build in one or two days cuz they're, you'll get brutalized if you can't, if people order it within the window and it doesn't get there. That's a, that's a really challenging experience.

Saunder Schroeder (43:24):

Yeah. Yeah.

Logan Brown (43:25):

But some levers you can pull there too is like, um, like SA was saying to try to get kinda unique with this, let's say that the 16th is your last day and let's say you offer like one, like overnight shipping and maybe it's expensive, but you can get creative. Like you could say, listen, if you order $200 worth, I'll give it to you for free. Use this code to get a free, you know, overnight shipping and uh, that can entice some people to increase your A O V and get some money in the door.

Saunder Schroeder (43:51):

Love it.

Rabah Rahil (43:52):

Love, love it. Um, Richard had a really good question here, so I'd love to get your guys's, I'm actually Marin on a couple, uh, different new metrics that I, I'm keeping it a little close to the chest, but I want your guys' opinion when I have it kind of fully fleshed out. But, um, this is, so we have an L T V CPA metric, um, and then Logan, you're probably a good person to ask about this. How is, so the L T v, is that gonna be a function of the date range you're looking at?

Logan Brown (44:23):

Yeah, if you're on the summary page Yeah. And you're looking at the ltv? Yeah, that l okay. Yeah, yeah, there's a section there. So

Rabah Rahil (44:30):

The LTV is essentially gonna be total revenue divided by unique customers, right?

Logan Brown (44:35):


Rabah Rahil (44:36):

Okay, so that's the numerator. And then how is the CPA calculated? Is that gonna be total ad spend divided by orders?

Logan Brown (44:45):

Yep. Yep.

Rabah Rahil (44:48):

Okay. So this is useful, rich, but the challenge here is usually people look at an L T V to CAC ratio, not necessarily an L T V to cpa. And so that CPA isn't all encompassing of the, the costs that it takes to get that customer. So this is gonna be a little bit more, um, so like in the SaaS world for example, like a three is really anything over a three is like top tier. It's very, very good. Um, the one challenge that I would say with this calculation, and I would love to hear your guys' big brains in on this as well, is understanding the reality of your L T V. And so when you just say everybody that's ever came to the store that purchased divided by unique customers is my L T v, I just get a little bit, uh, sketched out about that by sometimes where, um, depending on how old the business is, so on and so forth, I usually like to have a A A l A l a smaller lookback period, whether it's six months, a year, 60 days, 90 days, something like that.

Because when you get extrapolated into like two, three year all-time L T v, you can get into some fuckery where it's like, are these people really gonna come back? What, you know, there's this purchase cycle, like how, what's going on here? Et cetera, et cetera. And so, um, I think it's useful, but actually, uh, and I, I need to piggyback on Insta, um, but Charlie has something interesting, uh, where he has, uh, what is it called again? The psm, the profitable scaling metric. And what he's doing is same, same but different where he's taking the L T V divided by the CPA plus the cogs. What I need to understand is how he's getting the cogs are those cogs they would have to be referential to the orders that happened unless there's only like one sku. Um, so that's the only thing. But that's actually pretty interesting where, um, you can get into essentially a profitability indicator outside of Paz or Paz is gonna be essentially, um, gross profit divided by ad spend. So what are you guys' takes? How, how would you use L T V over c p a? Is it a good metric? How do you get value out of it? Let's start with you Logan, and then Saunder, you can close it out.

Logan Brown (47:06):

Yeah, well, I don't wanna take, I know, I think I know what Saunder's gonna say, which is a good take, so I don't wanna take it away from him. Um, I'll just say that I, I'm in agreement on maybe looking at a smaller window of time. Um, some of the stuff that's going on in the comment section right now, the chat, like you're right, like CPA is kind of really cost per order, but just know that like, that's why we have N cpa. So you could probably do the same with a custom metric and trip oil. You can do the LTV over your N cpa. Uh,

Rabah Rahil (47:36):

How is N CPA calculated? Again, I also had this question because how do we know what ad dollars are allocated to new?

Logan Brown (47:45):

You don't, it's blended. It's blended, it's, it's taken the total amount you've spent and it's saying like, got it, tracking, there's an assumption there that you're spending to acquire new

Rabah Rahil (47:53):

Customers. The majority on prospecting tracking. Yep.

Saunder Schroeder (47:57):

It should be the case.

Logan Brown (47:58):

Yeah. So anyway, son, take it away. Let, let, I think you had a really, really good take months ago with me about, um, using the LTV 60 90 page and the metrics you should shoot for there. There was a couple of benchmarks you had, which I thought were great.

Saunder Schroeder (48:11):

Yeah, I, I think for me, usually when we're looking at L T V, to me, this is probably, you're looking at this metric to answer a different question. Um, usually when I look at L T V, it's to help me set my C P A targets, um, and it's to help me set a baseline for my lifecycle marketing, email marketing, sms, assuming it's on like the first one. Um, I, I tend to not like to look past a 90 day L T V just because it's hard to flow money past that and to really acquire customers beyond that anyway. Um, so, but rule of thumb, I like to see a 30% increase in L T V by month three. So your 90 day, um, is like, that's when your life cycle marketing is humming and then a hundred percent increase by month 12. Um, so I think those are great metrics to be looking at. Um, and so yeah, and then back to the original point, like 90 day L T V I would never look past that, uh, as, unless, unless you're a subscription business. So let me throw out that caveat. So subscription businesses, you can look at a full year because your average customer life cycle could be, you know, three years, right? So, right. Um, yeah, that's what I would say.

Rabah Rahil (49:32):

Nice. Uh, is that help? Is that helpful? Rich, do you want us to elaborate more? And that was, that was a great explanation. Sa I like that.

Saunder Schroeder (49:40):

I mean, I would, I would just ask what's what is the question you're ultimately trying to solve for? Because I think that can help get a more

Rabah Rahil (49:47):

Specific answer. What what's the goal? Yeah, yeah. It's a, that's a really good place to start and then find the metric that can inform that question.

Logan Brown (49:54):

Yeah, I'm sure here he is, just trying to figure, like he said, he was trying to interpret it. So I think take that baseline, go to LTV 60 90, look at your 90 day L T V, and there's a percentage increase there on the A O V. You wanna be trying to shoot for 30%. So if right now you go to that page and you're, you're probably gonna be over that, I'd imagine just because of Black Friday, Saturday, Monday, it'll probably look pretty healthy. But like go back and review that each month and, uh, just make sure all of your marketing, uh, objectives are aligned there to support it.

Rabah Rahil (50:26):

Yeah, that's amazing. You guys, you guys know what's talking about here, amaze. Um, okay. All right. We've got three more minutes. Do you guys have any more questions? Uh, comments? How can we help you out more? Like I said, if you wanna get in the weeds, um, and you have some time, definitely see if you can book a session with Saunder or Alejandro. They are fantastic and they can get you through the triple whales. Um, we are also working on a certification, so we drop Triple Whale University, um, I can drop that here. Um, it's been great, but people like it, but it's more so they want to have a understanding of macro kind of concepts, understanding product market fit, understanding kind of, uh, what, what these two guys are talking about here. So we're developing a certification that we're hoping to launch probably in February.

We're gonna build it out in December and January. Um, and then you can take a whole certification from calf to Cal and understand how, how to really run a profitable business at the end of the day. That's really where we need to be concentrating. Um, and I think that's gonna be the big kind of quote unquote repositioning for us is Triple O is the tool that com os that'll help you find your path to profitability and understanding how you can keep more of your money. Um, because I think that's just, uh, it's just where the world's going and if you're profitable, uh, the, I listened to a great podcast called Founders, and one thing that comes up over and over and over again on that podcast is the one thing that kills startups or businesses is run outta money. Um, so as long as you have cash flow, and especially if you have profit, um, you're gonna be in a really, really robust place that you can make decisions to, to just not die.

Um, and so that's amazing. Okay, amazing. Uh, the best way to contact Saunder for appointment, do you have a link or should they go through CS? Saunder? What's the best way for getting nerdy? I've got a link right here. Oh, wow. Look at this. Megan, ask, can you shower C what we're getting discount codes from Matt. Links from Saunder. Logan's dropping bombs over here. I mean, hey, I need to, I need to pick up the, pick up the game over here. Okay. What'd you say? Rich? Got it. Thanks for the insights. Didn't mean to throw us off topic. No, these questions are fantastic for me. I'm trying to dial in targeted cpa, so I wouldn't care about CPA as much. Rich as I would care about new customer cpa. At the end of the day, you really wanna make sure that you're driving incremental revenue, not reactivating people.

The reactivations are great, um, which is sensational, but you really wanna make sure that you're using your paid media to bring more people into the fold. And then you're using your email, your sms, your organic to reconvert those people, um, because you don't wanna pay for somebody that's already come to the party. Um, see if I could be more aggressive with the lower roas. Yeah, again, I think I would not, so I would really drive the boat with, um, the three roas here and make sure that all three of them, so the three row ass are gonna give you efficiency, which is gonna be your mer or excuse me, your effectiveness is gonna be your me, your NC Roaz is gonna be your efficiency, and your PAZ is gonna be your profits. And making sure those three things are there. The PSM is actually pretty interesting.

And then I have a new customer metric that we just released, a new metric. So I'm gonna play around with it in the custom metric builder to see if I can calculate this thing. Another thing that Logan actually, um, had a really, you have to kind of jump through some hoops, so ping us if you want to try it, but the contribution margin per order is pretty interesting as well. But at the end of the day, if you're wanting to just see if you can internalize more, you just need to make sure that what you get into, kind of some, some in, and I know I'm over time, so I just gotta wrap this up, but you get into some interesting, um, questions about like, payback period, cash flow, et cetera. When you start talking about L T V, because Saunder comes to the club, and I know Saunder's gonna gimme a hundred dollars, but he is only gonna gimme $20 the first time, another $20 a second time, and it'll take me two years to accrue that a hundred dollars.

But I'd still be fine with buying him for $20 or something like that, getting him to come to the club for $20, and then he's gonna spend a hundred dollars across two years. The challenge is you need to make sure you got enough money in the bank to keep the business running, whether it be inventory, um, labor, uh, shipping, all these things that matter because you can get into a point where you have a bus. Like, I actually knew a guy that had a, he was making a million dollars in profit, like literal profit, net profit from the business. But the challenge was he couldn't stop that flywheel. And so that million dollars had to go right back into inventory to keep that big flywheel going. So anyways, I'm kind of into super, super weeds Rich, I'll connect with you, uh, on Instagram, we'll get a call together.

Um, but, um, you're, you're really trotting down the right path. Um, you just have to be very cautious when dealing with long look back LTVs, because that cannot sometimes be the, the reality on the ground. And so that, that would be my kind of biggest takeaway. Um, amazing. Matt, appreciate you. Yeah, the ad spent pod, we, we got one coming up for you tomorrow, so it's amazing for, for you. They're 20 bucks. Come on. Of course you get, you get in. Where you getting in? Um, okay, I know we're three minutes over. If you guys have any other questions, toss 'em in here. If you want some swag, hit me up, Rob, at Triple Whale Logan closing comments. Hit me with it.

Logan Brown (55:56):

Um, everybody, one, have a great holiday season. Uh, number two though, things are about to get funky in in Triple Whale. Um, there's some really big releases coming, uh, in December, and then like December, January, we're, we're gonna kick it up a notch with some ai, um, in the pixel. Whoa. It's like a ton of cool stuff coming there. Yeah. Yeah. It's gonna be fun. So, uh, make sure you're on whatever email list you're supposed to be on to get updates on that. Um, and we'll make sure you're aware.

Rabah Rahil (56:26):

Amazing. Stay tuned. Everybody should be subscribed to Whale Males. Um, Sandy, give it to me, big fella.

Saunder Schroeder (56:33):

Just happy to see 70% of people here had a better Black Friday, cyber Monday, so that's phenomenal. So congrats, great work and, and keep it pushing. Amazing book some time with me.

Rabah Rahil (56:47):

<laugh> book some time with the Sundays. Um, Saunder, you're always the best. Logan, I, I love when you nerd out. It's, it's one of my favorite things. So really, I thank you, appreciate all the thoughtful, eloquent responses. Richard, Matt, Megan, all you beautiful, wonderful humans. Timothy, Zach, all you guys, thank you so much. Na, naman, Naman, I, I need to get better at names. Dan, all these wonderful humans, uh, you guys have been great. Thank you so much for tuning in. We'll see you guys next Wednesday. We have State of the Whale tomorrow if you wanna tune in for that. Um, and then we'll have the Whale weather report out to you guys on Friday, and that'll have all the Black Friday supplemental stuff. I'll see what I can do to get you guys an email. Um, so you can be ahead of the curve. Maybe I can send it out on Thursday.

But, um, that's all we have for you guys. Thank you so much. Make sure you subscribe to Ad Spend. Make sure you subscribe to your now your Roaz. Those are our two flagship podcasts right now. We're actually some spilled tea. We're acquiring a podcast network that will, we will, uh, disclose here in the next few days. Um, and we're gonna be launching in January with like eight to 10 podcasts. This is gonna be pretty crazy. So I'm pretty excited about that. That's been a, a fun checkbox. And then, um, like I said, hit me up for some merch, but really, really appreciate all you guys. You, you were just the absolute best community. And then, uh, SA Logan, it's always a pleasure. Thank you for taking time outta here. Busy days and that's all we got.

Saunder Schroeder (58:04):

See y'all. Thanks. Thanks

Rabah Rahil (58:06):

Everyone. Amazing. And sending the old miss. Good vibes. Logan. Sending the Isn't Bama doon bad though, right? So you're, you kind of have some solace there, right? Or you don't really care.

Logan Brown (58:15):

I mean, bad as in, uh, I mean lsu, our biggest, one of our biggest rivals is going to the championship, so

Rabah Rahil (58:21):

Oh, that's brutal. Okay. But they lost,

Logan Brown (58:23):

Which is funny cause That's great. It's cool. <laugh>.

Rabah Rahil (58:25):

That is great. Here we go. See? Yes, Texas is doing, it's our part, doing our part Are Texas actually looking pretty good. Cowboys looking good, so could be worse there, but I still, I still have to call out. Those baby blues are nasty. Those are probably one of the coolest college jerseys I've seen in a while. Those are, those are disgusting. Are those only special jerseys or always home jerseys? I've never seen those. Cuz you have Navy, right?

Logan Brown (58:44):

Yeah, they're special powder blue. They're

Rabah Rahil (58:46):

Special powder blue. Excuse me. Excuse. Oh man, you see this guy? He's a

Saunder Schroeder (58:50):

Excuse my friend.

Rabah Rahil (58:51):

A t d baby. E t a t d, attention detail. All right, Levi, Dan, Kenny, thanks so much. That's all we've got folks. We'll see you on the flip. Bye-bye.

Logan Brown (59:00):


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