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Creative Breakdown with Jess from Hire Fire Team
Published on
Dec 1, 2022
One of the best in the biz reviews creatives to gives tips, tactics and strategies to drastically improve your creative.

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Kevin (00:00):

Hey, everybody, Kevin here, uh, back with Jess for another creative breakdown. Jess, thank you again for, um, for agreeing to, to share some time with us and, uh, first yeah, thanks for being here.

Jess (00:14):

Yep, my pleasure. You're, you're very persuasive, Kevin. Um, and the, the also helps, but we won't get

Kevin (00:21):

It. Well, sure, Yeah, that's only fair. Um, I am in Rob's office. Rob is on vacation in Spain, hopefully, uh, far away from work stuff. But, uh, he has a standing desk and I've never used a standing desk before and I kind of am starting to get why people do it. But again, if I drop out somewhere in the middle and just go down, like, you know, third period French, then you'll know that, uh, something is, something is

Jess (00:46):

Amiss. A blood pressure thing, just keep, keep on top of it,

Kevin (00:49):

Probably, Yeah. Mean I'll just, uh, start jogging in place. Okay. So a lot of you guys raised your hand and you said that, uh, you're interested in having Jess take a whack at, uh, one of your creative campaigns. And the first one that came in, uh, was from, uh, member Daphna ga, and it was ad campaign for Callie's books. And so that's what we're gonna take a look at today. So, um, Daphna and thank you to everybody else, by the way, who raised your hand. We'll talk a little bit about that later, but let's get to the, to the item at hand and take a look at this. And, um, Jess, I think you're going to share your screen, right?

Jess (01:25):

Yep, can do.

Kevin (01:26):


Jess (01:28):

Let's see here. Alright, can you see it Good? Yep.

Kevin (01:36):

Got it.

Jess (01:38):

Um, cool. So one of the reasons why I wanted to do something a little different just going wicked cold this time, is because that's how viewers approach it going in cold, you know, So I wanted to see if I could, uh, harness or some harness some of that, that, that same, um, ignorance of the brand before I start, you know, digging into it.

Kevin (02:03):

Makes sense. Uh,

Jess (02:05):

So Callie's books, um, so the one thing I was, I'll try and get a, just a quick sense of the scale of the brand, uh, and you can kind of do that in the ads library by looking at, um, the, the number of followers here, you know, 6,000 usually if they're running a lot of ads, they'll have like a, a bunch of likes on the page and stuff like that. And then I also will scroll down to the bottom to see how mu how much ads they are actually running here. Um, and this is a pretty good amount. So there's a lot going on here, and there's stuff that's, that's active all the way back in April, here April 7th, April 2nd. So why, why I like to get down to the bottom of the ad account is because the, the ads library only shows what's active and Right. It's also sort of in chronological order. So the ads that are older here are ones that have not been necessarily turned off. They're still on, which kind of means they're the more effective, um, they're working for the most part. Okay. Um, uh, so that's interesting, but we'll sort of start back here at the top. Um,

Kevin (03:21):

Can I ask you a quick question, Jess, you were talking about, and I, and I, I totally get your, uh, the, the idea of coming in in cold, but I also find myself thinking a little bit about the fact that like, if you come across these ads, especially through retargeting, it's like you've already shown some interest in children's books or whatever, or been identified through other means as somebody who's got young kids around the house or young kids that you are maybe your grandparent or whatever. Um mm-hmm. <affirmative> in that sense, you are, I feel like you're coming in cold, but you're a but you're a warm conversation in a sense.

Jess (03:58):

Maybe, maybe it's, I might not know the brand at all. Um, and, you know, everyone's using like broad targeting these days, so, um, it's, it's hard to say. I Facebook might not know that I'm already into, uh, children's books at this point. Um, certainly hope probably some of these are gonna be retargeting and if we'll look through them, we can, you can kind of get a sense of what a retargeting ad is versus a prospecting ad, but

Kevin (04:24):

Makes sense.

Jess (04:25):

Um, so I'm just gonna start with this first one here. Okay. Um, just gonna read it. Get ready to read with kids friendly buttons on each with kid-friendly buttons on each page that plays soothing nursery rhymes in classic stories. Um, so it's already more, it's more than a book. Um, there's some like, technology aspect, perfect gift for your little reader, expose them to new language and cultures while new language and cultures while cultivating a love for books. That's interesting. Um, not something I would expect here. So there, so finding something, finding your, you know, unique selling point or something that's gonna differentiate you because there's a, you know, I have a parent, you know, or I am a parent, I have a bunch of kids, I've gone through the whole book thing. Um, it's hard to find something new these days, and there's so many places to get 'em from, like secondhand to the library to, you know, books delivered monthly.

So anything where there's something new. And I feel like playing soothing nursery rhymes, um, is something that's done before. There's always books that have some weird little, some speaker built in or something, but, um, exposing them to new language and cultures. I, I personally feel it's more interesting and as a parent, you know, my job is not to, like, there's certainly books that that help people read, but I also want to like, broaden their horizons, you know, personally. So, um, I almost feel like exposing 'em to new language and cultures is more important than this top one. And the unfortunate thing is with, with these Facebook ads in feed, there's only three lines. So anyone's gonna see, if they see this in their feed, they're gonna see these first three lines, and there's gonna be a C more here, and they're not gonna, they're not gonna see more. It's usually less than 1% of people actually click the C more, um, which isn't a lot. So you wanna make sure the most interesting thing, um, is sort of at the top here. And for me personally, I'd rather know that I'm exposing the new language and cultures than there's like buttons on it, you know?

Speaker 3 (06:40):

Makes sense. Yeah.

Jess (06:43):

All right. So let's watch this video here, and you can just nod or tell me if you can hear the audio coming through.

Speaker 3 (06:49):


Jess (07:15):

Okay. Interesting. Oh, let me stop that. So one of the, like, just to take a little bit of a side note, because I am gonna like pick this apart. Um, and the, and the reason why I, I get really picky and really detailed oriented is because I, I truly feel that, um, all of the scale that is all of the scale that you can get from an ad is already encoded by the time you, before you even put it on the platform. Um, because there's, you know, there's a lot of times when people are like, Oh, my ads don't last very long, and I look at them and they're like, Well, of course not. There's nothing to it. There's not much there. It's not, it's not very long. And it feels like, based in our experience, like you can put six figures behind an ad if the ad is very robust and it tackles a lot of different, uh, scenarios, and there's a lot going on and stuff, and you do all the right things creatively to, to do that. And it's, it feels like if you can create the best possible ads that that has the most level of scale and coded into it, the media buyer's job is to extract that efficiently. But the media buyer can't do anything when the ad is like 10 seconds and based on a meme from two months ago, you know? Right.

Speaker 3 (08:34):


Jess (08:36):

So every little detail, it really adds up to, uh, an ad that that can truly scale. And when I'm looking at these, I'm not, like, the first pass is not like, um, what's wrong with it or what's going on? The first pass is like, how, how am I feeling when I'm looking at this? And then once I can sort of under understand how I'm feeling, I can dig into why I'm feeling that way.

Kevin (09:03):


Jess (09:05):

So with this one, what I did notice is that, you know, I'm watching it and I'm reading it, but what, what I feel like is, is missing is, uh, like voiceover. Um, so we'll, we'll play it again, and, and it just feels like that's just a part that's, that's missing from us. So let's just play the first part again. Okay.

So it feels like, so we have this concept where it's like, there's, there's three pipes to the brain that, uh, you can communicate information in. One is, um, visual, like you can demonstrate that there's lots of fun books in the video. You can also use text to say what you need to say, and then you can also use voiceover as well. And to communicate the most amount or to have, get people to understand it the most. Ideally, you wanna use all three, um, just because, you know, when, when someone's watching this ad, they may be reading this or they may not, but if someone was voicing it over you, you can't miss it, you know? Uh, as long as the sound is on.

Kevin (10:30):

Well, not to mention by the way, like you're target audience, if you're talking about, certainly if you're talking about parents with littles, right? It's like you're constantly distracted and so it's like, you know, all the more reason to kill the lead, like to, you know, jump in with both feet, Like make sure that you're getting their attention really early on. And then also make sure that it's a sort of, uh, target rich environment conversationally, I would think.

Jess (10:54):

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Um, so it just feels like,

Okay, so the first, the first three seconds are always the most important. It's like the, it's, it's not just the thumb stop to get people to stop, but it's the point where you, it has the most signal to, to do creative targeting. Um, so with this one, it says, you don't need something fun and engaging for your little ones. So it's asking that question. And if I'm, if I'm reading that and I'm saying, yes, I will be, I'll stick around a little bit longer, but the challenging thing is the, the video is not, like, the problem here is my young ones are, uh, they're bored or something, or, or, you know, they don't stick, they don't, the, the normal books are dumb or whatever, they just bite on 'em or, or something. Um, they're not engaged, but, and so the solution is like, to find something fun, but with this one, I need, like, I want to, you need to put me in the place where that problem exists. Like, show me a baby that is not, see this baby's very entertained, but show me a baby that's like on a iPad or something, or Right. Show me a bunch of like, books that are piled up in the garbage because they're not used or something or, or something like that. Get me into the, the problem before you start bringing out the solutions here.

Kevin (12:26):


Jess (12:27):


Kevin (12:28):

Well, and I would also say that like, just again, playing the parent card for a second, like another one of those, it's a, it's like your kids will love a book and then it will fall out of fashion and it will like way out of fashion. And so I would think that getting, getting some footage of a kid being like, not happy with the status quo, probably not that hard.

Jess (12:51):

Yeah. Yep. Um, you can also, you can also start with the solution if you reoriented. So here we have this kid who's very clearly engaged in this book, and, um, you know, they're, they're loving it, they're having so much fun. And as a parent you see that and you're like, uh, it just triggers the feel. So if you took that clip and put it right in the beginning and was like, Do your kids have this much fun with books? And, uh, and, and then I think like, well, no, because my experience is, you know, they don't, and then now, um, then you can sort of, you, you feel the problem because you, you've already experienced and, and you're sort of seeing the solution, um, as well.

Kevin (13:37):

Makes sense.

Jess (13:39):

Uh, these first three seconds aren't really grabbing. There's nothing, it's, it's not, there's not a lot of visual intrigue here to get me to stop, um, unless I read this. But I don't want, you shouldn't make an ad where it sort of requires you to read that for them to, you know, be hooked. Um, and I'm, and I, and I'm also not a, a favor of like, I mean, there's a big trend these days of the thumb stop is just like anything weird or like gross or has like goo in it to make people stop. And then like, then people are like, Well, once you've stopped, then you sort of begin the ad. And I, I personally hate that. Um, I think it's an awful way to do so because like, it's basically click bait, you know? Yeah. It's,

Kevin (14:31):

It's shock value that Yeah, it feels like a bait and switch,

Jess (14:35):

Right. And then once you stop someone, you still need to engage them in the ad. So it's, it's all you're doing is just like losing, you know, 50% of your audience with something weird and gross, and then, then the ad starts and you still, you still need another thumb stop to get them into it. Like, I, I really encourage people to find thumb stops that are native to the problem and solution or native to their, their product and not just weird. Um,

Kevin (15:06):

Makes sense. It's almost like you have to win your audience back after something like that, I would think.

Jess (15:11):

Exactly. Exactly. Um, so if you started with this happy baby, and then the question was like, does your baby love books this much? Um, I need to understand, I see that and I, and I see a baby, and now I need to understand why that baby likes that book so much. It, it creates this like, question and the brain is like desperately seeking context in every scenario. So I kind of need that question answered, um, before I can, you know, keep scrolling. So

Kevin (15:41):


Speaker 3 (15:41):


Jess (15:49):

Check out these musical books. One, your little one will love the easy to press buttons. So, so one thing that's missing here is like, these are musical books. I can't even hear them. I don't, it's like the audio's in there just a little bit. It's like you can't hear it over the song, you know? Um, so in the video you can demonstrate what this is very quickly and people will, will, will get it. And they understand and like this whole section of like, check out these musical Cali books. Let's see. It's like, it's like two whole seconds where you could demonstrate that so quickly. Uh, and this, and this little clip doesn't really do anything you're say, so you're like, you are saying check out these musical books, but I don't know how the music works in these books. I'm a little bit, I'm a little bit confused. It's, they just look like sort of normal books and you can demonstrate that very quickly and then move on to something more

Kevin (17:07):

Interesting. Can I ask a follow up question? Of course. Course. Yeah. So we'll treat this like a press conference. So, uh, so would you, in that situation, would you pot the music bed down and then bring in the, the, essentially like the, you know, the, the book sounds over the top of that? Or would you, do you recommend like, actually like cold stop, get rid of the music bed altogether so people can hear it? I mean, obviously done elegantly, but what, do you have an opinion on that one way or the other?

Jess (17:38):

Yeah, so, so this is interesting cuz it's music over music. Usually when there's vo right, you can, um, pull the music bed down, but with this one, I would actually not start with the music. I'd start with, you know, the baby laughing and then a very, very easy digest clip of the actual music coming out of these things. And then you can go into the emotional music bed to tell the rest of the story. Something like that, but

Kevin (18:03):

Totally makes sense.

Jess (18:15):

So here's, um, so here's a clip. It starts, it starts right here at about nine seconds

And then it goes to 13 seconds. So probably about four seconds where nothing happens on screen except this, this baby. Um, and I think people's attention spans are short, but, and we usually try and we usually try and edit videos where something needs to happen like every, every three seconds, um, or less. It, it doesn't mean you need to, uh, cut to something else or something or hold new, new feature and benefit. But like, if there was like a, a little thing that popped up right here above her head that's like she loves it, um, like in quotes or something just to, just to give my brain just something else to, to read and stay until the next, uh, the next cut. Um,

Kevin (19:14):

I can, I, well, I another quick, uh, sidebar, which I, which I'm curious about. Like, I'm wondering if like maybe a second shot or a series of shots that actually show parent, a parent in the, in the frame with the child. Because a lot of times that's how that stuff goes down. I mean, this looks like in this situation, this is a kid who you've put in the, like, who's enjoying the book by herself mm-hmm. <affirmative>, which totally happened, but also like, it is a, it is a thing that sometimes parents do with their kids. So anyway, just a content thought. Yeah.

Jess (19:47):

Yeah. That's interesting. I think it really, I think you need to explore, um, the brand and the purpose more because they're, they're very separate. Like, absolutely I want to have some books to share with my kids. Um, like I read my, I read my Kids The ha like both of them, but, um, but also there's a whole separate thing where it's like, I just wanna give something to them so I can, uh, you know, go have lunch, something like that. And they're very separate. I don't know what, what this brand's all all about, but they may be targeting, I mean, this kid's a little young to be left alone, but they may be going after the, um, keep your kids entertained versus, um,

Kevin (20:27):

Which is a real thing. Yeah.

Jess (20:31):

Yep. Um, so the other thing I I like to do is, you know, con also with the three pipes here, so like, this kid is, is being entertained by this book, and you can see that in the video. So that's one pipe. But don't, don't just, you need to like reinforce that if you really want to stick, like if there was text here that was saying like either, you know, she spent 20 minutes with it, uh, or something like that, then I would, then it's just another piece of information in the same clip in the same period of time that reinforces what, what's tr what's going on here. I need let the dog get in,

Speaker 3 (21:12):

Come on. Um,

Jess (21:16):

And then the third piece of that, if you, if you had that text, is to also have VO of a parent saying that. And now you have like 1, 2, 3, you absolutely know what's going on here and it's gonna stick as much as possible.

Kevin (21:28):

Makes sense.

Jess (21:34):

Dancing along to the fun song. So this is, this is a great little segment here of the Dancing Baby. Um, because <laugh>, you can't fake this, You can't hire a baby to do this. Um, every parent

Kevin (21:53):


Jess (21:54):

Every parent knows what natural reactions are. Um, and I, I'll kind of use this as an, as an analog to UGC these days because U gc a lot of people hate U gc, some people love U gc. I think the issue is that the demand for U GC has totally outstripped the supply of people that can do it well and makes sense and can fake it well. Um, there's only, there's only a handful of people that can really like, fake it. Well, and humans are so good at reading people's facial expressions and the tone of their voice and they know when, um, even if they're not consciously like, Oh, you clearly got paid $60 for this, they, they feel it, you know?

Kevin (22:39):

Yeah, no, it makes sense when we're, and it's something that we all do effortlessly. I feel like we talked about this last time too, but it's like, your audience is smart, so you gotta treat 'em like they are,

Jess (22:50):

Right? So this is a very natural reaction for a baby. I don't know how long they they took to get this, but one thing that we do, um, when we're like shooting u GC or shooting actors is we try and get as much foot as possible and a lot of times, like, um, the, the, the mess up or sometimes they just laugh when they're doing it. Those stuff, those are like general natural reactions and it's like those are, those are like emotional juice that you can sort of put in there to make it feel, um, more natural,

Kevin (23:21):

Authentic for sure.

Jess (23:27):

<laugh>, okay, so I'm, I'm really picking this apart here, but there is a music bed to it and there's, there's a point in the music where it starts to go upbeat, you know,

And nothing happens in the video. There's no like additional, it doesn't cut to anything. Um, the music transitions, but the video doesn't. So to me that feels like something was missing or there's just some little bit of like, um, cognitive discomfort there. Um, and you know, this, again, this is like super nitpicky, but I'm, I'm, we, we try and create videos where there's just, people watch them with a level of ease, uh, because it's so easy for them to just get a quick vibe and then they're gone, they scroll and then they're gone. So if we can keep them in a level of like, contentment from all different factors, and part of that is like we, we try and always cut music, cut, cut the video to the, on the beat of, of, of the video. Um, particularly when there's, you know, at the end of a measure here where it's just like, it's clearly changes. Um, so yeah,

Kevin (24:42):

It almost seems like this is a situation where they really liked the overall vibe of the music and then didn't necessarily think through or are missing some opportunities with the way that the music like plays. Like essentially like the, some of the changes that are happening.

Jess (24:58):

Yep. Yep. Um, and then, and then I'm sure you noticed how the music ends here. Let's play this again. This is what little,

Kevin (25:15):

A little bit of a needle rip situation

Jess (25:18):

<laugh>, right?

Kevin (25:19):


Jess (25:21):

Um, so there's, there's no reason to cut the music there at all. They could have played it right over the end card for sure. Um, but they did, and you know, sometimes people are moving fast or whatever and they're just like, you know, they don't have the right files and it's just like they're testing a different end card or whatever. Um, but this is an example where something like that is a, is a very, um, subconsciously negative experience and it's going to reduce the amount of scale that you can get from this ad for

Kevin (25:52):

Sure. I, I would also just add to the, and, and this is just my opinion, but I, but I think that like, that type of music bed feels like it's a fade out and not a hard cut. Like, you know what I mean? Like just the, the overall, again, the overall tone of that, of that music bed and what you're talking about feels like it's a softer situation. So it's, Yeah. It even accentuates that cut a little,

Jess (26:16):

A little harder. Yeah. And particularly cuz it starts to like ramp up right here and you start and you, and then you're like into the baby and you're moving and it's this like, we, we take it all away from you right here. We take it all away and we have the, the logo on here. So now I have like a, a Cali books that's just like taken away that feeling, um, from me. And that's not, that's not really a, a marker that you want to put onto your brand.

Kevin (26:43):

I would say that the end card is easy to read.

Jess (26:46):

Yep. Yeah. Um, I do love end cards. Yep. Very, very, I always love to see end cards. There's no reason why you should not use an end card. Um, a lot of people are like, you know, a lot of people are like an end card, you put an end card and then people like, no, it's an ad. Uh, well, it's like, no, no kidding. People aren't gonna watch this whole thing thinking it's like some, um, their friend's baby video, they're gonna know it's an ad. So if they already know it's an ad, like really seal the deal, um, with a good end card, you know, has Yeah. Has all the relevant informations, 5,000 reviews, um, fun guarantee. So very, very good end card minus the silence. Right. Interesting. Um, so we'll see how that does. Cool. I apologize for any hurt feelings on that, but see, uh, um, so this one is just a, a static ad. My 15 month old is obsessed with its book. He love starting and stopping each sign dancing music. So much fun. Rachel f um, this could very well be retargeting, um, for sure. Um, just using a straight quote is, is great. I love doing that. Uh, if it's a good one and you know, maybe

Kevin (28:08):

They've seen about social proof.

Jess (28:09):

Yep. Social proof, um, it's key. Certainly missing from this ad unit. I didn't, I didn't detect any type of social proof except at the end. And that's just like, that's just like a, this 5,000 review, it's more like a checkbox, ultra proof than any type of like emotional trigger or anything, you know?

Kevin (28:30):


Jess (28:32):

Um, so that's a good one. Okay, so here's, here's another ad and then what I see is that they're using the same copy Yeah. But using the exact same copy here and here. And that's fine. There's, they're basically using it everywhere.

Kevin (28:55):

Um, well, and I wonder too, like if it's a situation where you're touting the fact that you've got 5,000 reviews, like comb through those, like I would just think that like, you know, if you have kids that are the target or the kind of the target market for these books, that's never gonna go outta style. Like, kids that age are always gonna behave like kids that age, and so you should just comb it for fun stuff.

Jess (29:18):

Yeah, I'm sure there's so, there's so much, there's so much good stuff in the, in the comments or in their views and not just like people saying things, but like, you know, we've, we come up with so many different angles and pitches just by reading reviews and seeing, seeing like a, a customer will mention something interesting that they use the book for and then that becomes either like, you know, the copy at the top of an ad unit or it become a whole ad unit itself because it is interesting, you know, we're trying to, uh, get people's, uh, interest going here. But one thing I do know is they're using this same two lines of copy with every ad, um, probably every ad in prospecting care and a lot time,

Kevin (30:04):

Oh, sorry. Go Well I, uh, I was just gonna ask, do you think that that helps or hurt you in, in retargeting?

Jess (30:13):

Well, it's not a bad strategy. And, and then what, what happened is they will, they'll do a lot of testing to find out what's the best line, what's the best top line. So they've probably tested this and probably know this one generally performs better. Maybe they, maybe they used the D C T and they put in like five different copy lines or something, and this one seemed to perform better. The, the where, where I would disagree is that it may perform better in general, but it's not gonna perform better tied to the particular video creative. Like, I, I really feel like these two things are tied together. The video and the copy are tied together. They, they see, you know, they'll see the first three lines and they'll see the video and a lot of times there's just better ways to tie, like if the copy sort of played off the, the video a little bit, um, you could create a, a unit that is, that is better than just like split testing a bunch of different parts and then putting those different parts together, you know,

Kevin (31:21):

A hundred percent.

Jess (31:24):

Um, how are we doing on time? Can we go through this video? Oh,

Kevin (31:26):

Yeah, yeah, we're fine. Let's do it.

Jess (31:28):

Okay. Um, so same copy. We won't get into that. Okay. Um, does your toddler have a favorite book? Let me watch this again.

So again, we have the push and nothing happens, um, which isn't, you know, he pushed, I want to, I need to know what this is, um, to, to intrigue me. I need to know, like, because they have these at, at, at like the drug store too, you know, uh, and sometimes they're like wicked cheap or whatever. So I kind of need to know what level of quality this is because I could also get it at the Hallmark store just, or you, wherever, you know, I feel like it might even be at the dollar store, these types of things,

Kevin (32:42):

You know? No, there's, to your point there, there's a lot of noise in that channel and certainly in the in-store environment.

Jess (32:48):

Yep. Um, so I need to hear this and feel like it's, it's quality and not, um, something super cheap and I'm not, I can't hear it, so I don't know. And I'm not gonna, I'm not interested enough to go to the site and check it out, <laugh>. Um, so this is the first time where I've seen a baby be obsessed. Um, I, that line is kind of like overused and, um, maybe this is like the, the nail and the coffin on it, but I don't know. It, it feels very weird to have a baby be obsessed with that. There's probably a better line or something. Okay. So one thing I'm missing here, Okay. One thing that's totally missing here, which was totally in the other video, which is critical and it has to do with the baby. Uh, let's see if you can guess what it's, what's missing, Kevin?

Kevin (34:00):

So, okay, so wait, you're saying vi like it was in the other video, but it's missing here.

Jess (34:05):


Kevin (34:05):

Well you don't really, you don't really have, uh, the shots of the baby are really, like, the kid is like, you can't really, you have no, uh, facial re recognition of the child.

Jess (34:17):

Exactly. The the baby's face is not in here. Right. Um, and like, so

Kevin (34:23):

If they're excited about it, you don't see that.

Jess (34:25):

Right. And if there's, if there's anything a mother can read better than anything else, it's a baby's face, you know? Yep. And so to, to have this like baby in like witness protection here just does not make a lot of sense.

Kevin (34:43):

Well, and and to your point, like babies, I, I have yet to meet a baby that's koy. Like, they just don't do it. They're just putting it out there. So it's like the expressions are big and they're all cute. Like it's an opportunity

Jess (34:57):

A absolutely. Um, and it's, it's validation like, so the baby, the baby can't say I'm obsessed, but you can read obsessed in, in the face. Like, this baby is obsessed right here. Um, but this one is not so. Right. Absolutely. Totally missing here.

Um, so again, both of these ads are kind of, I'd say they're on the short side. This is 20, this is 28. Um, and it feels like there's a, there's so much more that can be said here and there's so much more that can be delivered that helps sell this through. Like, I wanna see, I wanna see a mother talking about it. Like I need to see that I need to see a mother using her own words with her own experience. Um, I need to see what, I need to see, like what the unboxing is like. Do, is there, like, is that part of the fun, uh, experience? I need to, I need to hear these things. I need to see, I need to hear and see the different variety. Um, because I'm probably not gonna go to this website and buy one. It's probably like, you know, to get free shipping, you need to whatever, get like $40 worth. So, Right. I need to make sure that it's not just one. Like I'm, there's a lot of different variety here. Um, I need to hear and see more social proof. I need to see more than one baby as well. Um, cuz this could,

Kevin (36:40):

We don't really <laugh> we don't really see that one <laugh>,

Jess (36:45):

Right? Well, this, this could all be one baby and it's fine to have one baby. Like this is, this is an ad that features this baby. She's like the star. But if you want to, if you want to really hammer home the social proof, show me that there's a br like a a brunette baby or a boy and a girl, or they both love it and then, and then I know that it's not a fluke, you know, I intrinsically know that it's not a fluke. Um, right. So there's all these, there's all these different things like the social proof, the, the, the testimonial from a mom, the different babies, uh, all this type of stuff should actually be in every single ad unit. And one thing we like to do is create like this, this base unit, which contains sometimes they're like over a minute long, but it's really like, it's everything you kind of need to know in order to get the click.

And then in front of that, we'll put something that is very angle specific, um, something like this. And it might be like 20 seconds in front of that. And if someone gets here, if someone gets to the 17 second mark, which could be a lot of people, like, it could even be like 20% of the, the audience. You know, if someone, if someone puts in the time to get here, they're already kind of invested, why not give them more? You have that opportunity to give them more. If, if you don't, you're gonna have to pay for that opportunity again with another impression down the road at retargeting CPMs, which are gonna be more. So, um, most of the ads that we put in market are like a minute to a minute, 30 to two minutes, sometimes even longer. And we do find that like three or 4% of the audience will get to a minute mark, which is 3%.

Doesn't sound a lot, but like sometimes that's hundreds of thousands of people with enough spend. And it's like if you've watched an ad for a minute, you're, you're halfway to being a customer. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, um, so they are using the same headline here, um, Mom's Choice award winner. Um, and I think it's, I think it's, it's definitely more acceptable to use the same headline because the headline is unfortunately it's less important than the, than the primary text here. Um, the first, the first lines of the primary texts get read the headline are just, it's just like a little sort of call to action type thing. And if they found the winner, uh, it makes sense to use it. But

Kevin (39:17):

It also seems like to me that that's a natural opportunity that like if it's, if it's a mom's choice award winner, like why not use a mom as, as part of your vo? Like, you know what I mean? Yeah. Like that's, that's a, it's this automatic connection that we're making in our brains anyway.

Jess (39:34):

Yeah. Um, I also want to know what that is, like mom's choice award winner. Um, they've won some awards and you know, parents are always, they never, they're so, um, there's so much anxiety about are they doing the right thing? And that's why these like award these things that have been validated by some expert or something, um, are very critical. So like, that's also a segment that should be in every ad as well somewhere, you

Kevin (40:03):

Know? Yeah. Makes sense.

Jess (40:08):

Um, so the reason why my ads, my ads library looks a little different. I have this plugin that allows you to save the ads here, um, to my own like Pinterest board of ads. Um, so unfortunately it's got a horrible name foreplay. Um, I, I really dislike that. It's like that it's combined with like baby images here. But anyways, um, so let's, let's look at the one that's like really old and see if we can tell why that one might have been performed better. Oh look, it's a gra um, so are you gonna say something?

Kevin (40:56):

I was gonna say, yeah, if anybody will buy it again, it's just like, I'm just blathering on about parent stuff, but it's like, if anybody will buy kids' books, it's grandparents, like it's, it totally makes sense to include one in the visual. Like you, like that is, that's a huge opportunity and it's like a lot of discretionary income, so Yeah. Right. That's, uh, yeah. So a real opportunity.

Jess (41:20):

Absolutely. So let's take a look at this one here. This is my mom with my new nephew. Okay. So this is why I think it, it really makes sense to tailor this language, this primary text to this video. Cuz this is clearly about grandmothers and I feel like if this text were like, Hey grandmothers, are you looking for, you know, a great activity to spend with your kids or something? It, it's gonna, it's gonna tie into the video and it's gonna be ultimately more effective than this, which may performed well on a general basis, but soon as you put into things that are very specific, you're now matching something general with something specific and you lose out on some of that effectiveness.

Kevin (42:08):


Jess (42:10):

Um, so we'll watch this. Um, I think this text here is a little, not a, a little hard to read, just little contrast issue. Um, but that stuff matters too. This is my mom with my nephew George. Um, also this sentence is like requiring me to think too much about this relationship. Um, so like <laugh>, it's, there's, there's this needs to be like, this is my mom with my son. It needs to be really simple

Kevin (42:46):

Or Yeah. Or, you know, my mom loves spending time with her grandkids or whatever, whatever the, your version is shorter, so that probably matters, but

Jess (42:56):

Right. Well, they need to match it to their experience. And so this is this, this is effectively saying, are you, do you have a grandmother who, who like, wants to spend time with your nephew, um, maybe your nephew's George or something. Um, it's just way too specific for it to, to resonate very quickly. Um, and people's brains are gonna be mostly shut off in those first three seconds. They may be able to understand this phrase a little bit down the road when they have context about what's going on, yada, yada, yada. But like right here, if you're trying to do like, you know, so like, who is this kid? This is like my nephew on my mom's side. It's just too, it's too complicated for,

Kevin (43:41):

For at, at the base level. What it's really trying to say is grandmas love grandkids, which they do universally. So, um, yeah. Like easy to get, try to get there in an easy way with some impact is what I hear you saying.

Jess (43:55):

Yep. Um, so just to talk about headlines, um, one, one tactic that we use is, it's called a, like a general Yes. Question where we'll ask a question in the headline that everyone, uh, should be able to say yes to. Um, this isn't the the great example, but it was if you, if if if you wrote like, do you love your grandkids or something like that question mark. And then the answer is like, always gonna be yes for, for people that do, I don't know who doesn't, but Right. And then so, so it's just a very easy super qualifying thing where it's like, Oh yes, I love my, my grandkids click. Um, or it could be like, do you have grandkids? And then, and then a grandkid's like, Oh yeah, I have grandkids. And then, and then click it to, to check out. It's just, it's just a way to get people like nodding their head and then when they're in their head when they're saying yes, hopefully their fingers are also saying yes, um, as well. Can you hear the audio? I can barely hear it

Kevin (45:10):

A little. Just a little.

Jess (45:21):

So like a lot, if you, Facebook used to tell you how much, what percentage of your audience, um, had the sound off when watching their videos on the organic side? Oh, that's, they did take that away. I don't know why, but it's, it's, it's very much like a, it was like, um, it was like 80 80% or 70% or some people watched Facebook videos with the sound off. And then, so that style, that style came out a bunch of years ago and then a bunch of people published all these articles that's like, you know, everyone's watching it with sound off. You always need subtitles, you always need, um, it's basically like you're making silent movies now. And, but I, but I think, I think the, the better way to look at that is most of the people are gonna watch it with sound off, but not the people who stick with it. Not the people who are watching it for like 15 or 20 seconds. Not ultimately not the customers. There's, you know, people just, most people just don't even click on ads to begin with, you know, and those are probably the people that are watching it with sound off. So I don't like to assume that. I like to assume that, that the customers, the, the clickers are people that are watching it with sound on. So the sound is very important. And when it's not

Like when I can like that, that audio is so central to what this thing is, I need to hear it, I need to hear it very, very clearly and they should probably like, mic this thing up and insert that as audio on top of it or something to Right. Be very clear, you know.

Speaker 4 (47:12):


Jess (47:14):

Reading together is their favorite bonding activity because it's a

Kevin (47:27):

Lot a copy there

Jess (47:29):

Because George is so young. Um, my mom's nephew on my father's side, George, uh, is capturing his attention is only possible with musical books or toys that play sound. So one thing that I'm sort of getting here is love this grandmother. What I don't love is the setting, it almost feels like studio or something. Right? Um, something, it does not feel entirely native. Something's just kind of not as real or as natural as this experience should be. Like, you know, I'd love to see, I don't know, something that's way more natural and doesn't have like a white wall or, uh, something like that. Uh, people,

Kevin (48:20):

It's a little, it is a little staged. Um, and yeah, and I do think that like another one of these, like there's a reason why a, a lot of these, uh, in my opinion, like a lot of these ads that are, that are aimed toward either parents of kids who are that age or kids who are that age have bright, vibrant colors that like, that play somewhere in there. Like it's just a, it is a short attention span theater scenario, but it's like also like, they tend to be more upbeat. This does look like a little bit more of a staged studio scenario.

Jess (48:54):

Yeah. And that's, that goes to the credibility, um, like for this to work, I need to believe that these two are related and that they are in their house and this is something she does often and I'm kind of not, I'm just, I'm something about, I just not believe in it currently. <laugh>. Oh my God. So, so here's an, here's a, here's another strange clip where it cuts right as she's gonna like say something and it's like,

Kevin (49:34):

Oh yeah. Oh yeah,

Jess (49:36):

<laugh>. Like what is, it's just a weird time to edit and it creates some, some, you know, cognitive discomfort here. Um, that doesn't sit well. I don't know.

Kevin (49:48):

I, I, you know what, I bet I would be willing to bet that what happened is she said something back to the kid that like wouldn't play on the ad, but it does feel like there's still an opportunity to do something with that moment that isn't necessarily being met.

Jess (50:04):

Yep. So it's interesting because this is, this is an ad aimed at, uh, grandmothers or grandparents. And so it's important to show that the kid is into it, but it's actually more important to show that like the grandmother's getting something out of this too. Right. Um, like she's, I don't know, like helping, helping him or like laughing with him or, you know, something. Um, it's like you, you need to remember who the actual buyer is here, uh, as well during gates facilitating bonding time with grandma. So definitely like, you know, two syllables max, <laugh> max here. Like we can't just, you can't just throw facilitating in there. It is not like you need to talk how your customers talk. And if the reviews were like, I love facilitating bonding time with my, with my grandson George. Um, it, it would work, but they're not like that. I guarantee you they're not like

Kevin (51:13):

That facilitating sounds like a word that's gone around the boardroom for a little while and then been agreed upon by a number of people. Like not how, like not, certainly not how grandma would talk.

Jess (51:24):

Right. Right, Exactly. And, and even where it's like engaged, like, uh, you know, capturing his attention, there's, there's more colloquial ways of saying that, um, than what's going on here.

Kevin (51:40):

And the thing is like when you talk in those sort of businessy like, uh, sterile terms, it doesn't, what you lose is all that emotion that you keep talking about and like the opportunity to like really make people feel something.

Jess (51:53):

Right, Right. People will pick that up. Um, so I think we're gonna have to cut it here cuz I'm a little over for, for a meeting that I have. Yeah.

Kevin (52:02):

Oh, no worries. Thank you so much. I, I, I again appreciate as always taking all the time. Thank you Daphna, for sending in. Um, this, hopefully you weren't too brutal, but, uh, but these are, these are great opportunities to have conversations about the way that we put ads together. And, uh, Jess, we appreciate your expertise as always.

Jess (52:22):

My pleasure. Any time. And this is done, it's done with love. Um, Adam of anything else?

Kevin (52:28):

Yeah, absolutely. And, and for the rest of you, um, we did talk, we, we, Jess and I did briefly talk and we'll talk more about when we can do more of these or other ways that we can, uh, we wanna be respectful of his time, but also, uh, uh, it's, it's amazing that there's so much interest. So anyway, keep him coming. Uh, check out Jess's deep dive creative channel in Nawal Nation and uh, and thanks for raising your hand guys. Um, Jess, we will catch you again on the next one.

Jess (52:56):

Great. My pleasure. Thank you, Kevin.

Kevin (52:58):

All right. Cheers guys.

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