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Podcast

How Kenny Hanson Built Mentor Pass

November 3, 2022

1:03:03

Hosted By

Rabah Rahil
CMO at Triple Whale

Guests

Ash Melwani
Co-Founder & CMO of MyObvi
Kenny Hanson

Episode Description

In this episode, we go over how Kenny Hanson built MentorPass and how to provide real value to others. #Adspend

Notes & Links

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Follow the people featured in this episode here:

- Rabah's Twitter: https://twitter.com/rabahrahil
- Ash's Twitter: https://twitter.com/ashvinmelwani
- Kenny Hanson's Twitter: https://twitter.com/NoCodeKenny

Transcription

Kenny Hanson (00:00:00):

The big vision of this is like, you know, 10 X of Google. I, I say Google organizes the world's information and mentor past organizes the world's knowledge

Rabah Rahil (00:00:15):

Episode 13 with my man with the plan Ash Mowan as always has joining me. And we have a super special guest, uh, founder creator, amazing human international man of mystery, actually joining us from Paris France today. Kenny Hansen, Kenny, how are you? What's up. Thanks for coming on the show.

Kenny Hanson (00:00:35):

I'm good. Roba um, I'm a little tired. It's about 11 o'clock here in Paris, but I stayed up just to talk to the two of you. I couldn't miss this conversation. So, uh, things are good.

Rabah Rahil (00:00:46):

Of course. Well, it doesn't even get dark there until like 10 though. Right? So you're, you're just like one hour into the darkness. It's I've been following you on your Instagram. I'm glued by, you're just Vienna. Now I Paris. I mean the mentor passes international baby. Let's go.

Kenny Hanson (00:01:02):

Yeah, I've got a client lunch tomorrow. I'm gonna be meeting some, uh, another client in Ritz, so we've got people all over the place.

Rabah Rahil (00:01:10):

Oh wow. That's incredible. So for this episode, we're gonna take a little bit of different T we've been hitting paid media pretty heavily, and Kenny has a really, really incredible company. He started called mens pass. Um, and I'll let you plug it and kind of tell people what it is, but just kind of giving an overview. We're basically just gonna jam on that. There's a bunch of really interesting things in terms of the two-sided market, um, the economics, what you're seeing from, because you have all these killer pressure, DTC people kind of what you're seeing behind the scenes, who's actually really succeeding on the market, um, how you're dealing with, um, again, there's a ton of everybody wants to be on it and how you're kind modulating that demand to become a mentor with people actually signing up to buy those mentor hours. So there's gonna be a ton of stuff we can get through, but before we do that, kinda give people the elevator pitch about what mentor passes and, um, let's start there.

Kenny Hanson (00:02:01):

Yeah. So, um, mentor pass is a direct to consumer, um, startup mentor marketplace. And so we've got about 200 mentors, um, that we've selected out of a, a much larger group, um, that you can sign up on the platform, pay for a subscription. You get credits every single month, and then you can book calls, uh, with people like yourselves, uh, two of our new mentors and, um, other folks that we have on there. We've got brand owners, um, we've got operators from companies like, uh, ritual and go, um, as well as agency owners, just individual consultants, everything like that. So we've just brought together a group of, uh, really good direct to consumer experts and we're democratizing access to those folks. Um, and, and kind of the backstory of that is I had some really impactful mentors growing up myself, um, that helped me go through a really difficult transition in my life. I actually failed outta high school and I was up to no good. And I had some football coaches and friends' parents that helped me turn it around. And so after I felt the kind of value of mentorship myself, I kind of asked myself like, how can I bottle this and, and give it to other people. And so mentor passes my best attempt at doing that.

Rabah Rahil (00:03:10):

Incredible. How old is it?

Kenny Hanson (00:03:13):

Um, we're about, I mean, there's kind of two stories there, so I'll tell you the first story, which is where a year and a half old. Um, so we launched in about in October of 2020. Um, but then actually the year before that, which I referred to as year zero, uh, October of 2019, I did like a, a false launch where I was indie hacking on it, myself. I built the product myself with no code. And for that first 12 months, um, we literally did $120 in gross marketplace volume and anybody in their right mind, would've given up on the business at that point. Um, but for me, this is really like a, a passion project. Like I said, it it's really personal to me. And so I just kept hacking away at it, even though my friends and family were kind of just like looking at and like, what are you doing and blowing your savings. I was putting my 401k into it, but kept pushing eventually brought on a co-founder. He rebuilt the app. So it actually worked and then we re relaunched it and started to get some traction from there.

Rabah Rahil (00:04:09):

That's incredible. Um, and so tell me, what are the biggest challenges you've seen in terms of, cause again, um, you had to build much like an Uber Instacart. What have you, um, the kind of technical, fancy terms, two-sided market double sided market where you're building not only the demand side of getting people to give you money, but you're also building supply side of the mentors. Um, so it gives some people some color there in terms of, cause that's pretty much the hardest thing to do is to build a double sided market versus just building, um, the demand side. So what was, I, I know the thought process behind it, but what are the challenges behind that?

Kenny Hanson (00:04:46):

Yeah, so what you're referring to is, is often called the chicken or the egg. Um, and the, the challenge with that is you basically have to come up with two value propositions and sell them at the same time and get those to line up. And so when we first, you know, when I first failed to launch it, we had about 20 mentors on there that were like my friends from home. And some friends that I had met while traveling, not the most qualified people, but they were the best that I could get. And I had them just on a website, sorry, for any of those folks that are listening, I think one or two are still on the platform.

Rabah Rahil (00:05:17):

<laugh>

Kenny Hanson (00:05:19):

Um, and it was just a website where you could go on there and you could see all of their profiles, you could see their, their hourly rate. You could book a call with them, didn't really work. Um, and so what we, uh, eventually, you know, what I learned through that process was, um, you have to try to constrain one side or the other. And what I learned was we were gonna try to constrain the supply side as much as possible and kind of like start to block that off a little bit and just show you, Hey, we have great mentors and we're gonna flash a couple of names at you, but if you wanna get access to the full experience, you're gonna actually have to commit to the full experience. And, um, and then through that, we were able to start talking to customers and then sell them on this kind of process of mentorship.

Kenny Hanson (00:06:04):

Instead of saying, you're gonna pay, you know, X amount of dollars for this one individual call. And really as we brought it out from the, the individual and, and brought it into more of a process, um, that actually made us a lot more successful. And so, um, yeah, it's a challenge. Like every time you bring on some new mentors, if you don't get them booked pretty quickly, they start to turn and they get a little bit disillusioned with it. Yeah. And then the same thing, if you bring on a client and you don't have the right mentors for them right away, um, they, you know, are, are not very satisfied with it. So it's a continuous balancing act that we're, uh, you know, we're still solving, but we found some good ways to, uh, to, to really scale up. And the biggest thing I'll say is that once you start to get high quality supply, it starts to build on itself. And our big domino to fall was getting Nick Sharma on board. Um, which is a pretty cool story

Rabah Rahil (00:06:50):

Power for Nick Sharma.

Kenny Hanson (00:06:50):

Yeah. The cool story with that. Um, but once we brought him on and he started sharing that he was on the platform, you know, everybody D TOC was like, I want to do what Nick Shar was doing. And that brought on a bunch of other great, uh, high quality supply for us as well.

Rabah Rahil (00:07:06):

Nick Sharma actually turned me onto, uh, you guys seen this thing. Ooh, the gold BR <laugh>. Yeah. Fancy right. Powerful Nick Sharma.

Kenny Hanson (00:07:14):

I'm gonna have to tech Sharma right now and see if you can get me that, that, uh, metal card mine's starting to yeah. Over here.

Rabah Rahil (00:07:19):

Oh, it's, it's so nice.

Kenny Hanson (00:07:21):

We'll do a

Rabah Rahil (00:07:21):

Little fancy shout out

Kenny Hanson (00:07:23):

BRS. That's yeah. A little Brecks plug all around. <laugh>

Rabah Rahil (00:07:26):

Little BRS plug. Here we go. Kids. Here we go. Um, Ash, I know you booked a lot of, uh, what, 10, 12, and then powerful Ron shout out just had his kid. Fantastic. Big Ron, um, CEO, founder over at Avi has booked a ton of, uh, meetings as well. Tell me kind of the success and kinda your experience there. And then Kenny, I wanna hear kind of you, cause you get to sit over everybody. What has been kind the, the whole behind the same stuff, but go first Ash.

Ash Melwani (00:07:57):

Yeah, I think the, since I like started my like Twitter account, it's always been about like, just giving as much free game as I possibly can, because like, when I was first starting, I needed somebody to follow. Right. And just kind of learn the ropes from whether it was like individuals or like Facebook groups or whatever it was. Um, I just wanted to like kind of put out the information, let people absorb it, you know, give my opinion. And that was pretty much it. Um, I started getting messages like, Hey, are you like consulting? Or are you like open to taking different gigs? And I was just like, no, like I'm running my own brand. I don't really have time for that nor have I thought of it. Right. Like I haven't, like, I don't have like a website where I can accept consultation calls or accept payments or anything like that.

Ash Melwani (00:08:44):

And I think after seeing what Kenny had done with mentor past, it's like, it literally is almost mindless for mentors to kind of just here's my profile. Here's my rate. And here's what I can provide to you. Let's book a call. Right. So honestly, Kenny, you made it so like seamless where, Hey, you have a call, do you wanna accept it? You know, check out the information. Can I actually offer value? If yes. Then let's book the call and let's, you know, let's chat. Um, I think I've had like 13 to 15 calls already and it's like, it's, it's incredible. The people that are like kind of asking these like unique questions where I don't really get to dive into the detail of things like on Twitter. Cause it's like, all right, you have 160 characters. Like what can you really say? Right. Um, but like, because I'm passionate about it.

Ash Melwani (00:09:37):

I love talking about it. So like the ideas and like my like explanation on things I can go into a little bit more deeper and it's like, I mean, I'm not tuning my own horn, but like people are like, wow. That's like, I haven't thought of it this way. And it's like, yeah, like, cuz sometimes I surprise myself when I'm talking cuz it's like, wait, I'm like now I'm thinking about, okay, this is a different strategy that I can go through. So it's just good to like have that back and forth. And definitely the biggest thing is just helping people. Um, and then, you know, at the end of the day, it's like, you know, if you can, if you can learn from each other, like there's some brands that I've learned a couple of things from just through the cause and I'm sure even Ron can say the same thing.

Ash Melwani (00:10:16):

Um, but I mean that's, that's been my experience. I think it's absolutely amazing. Um, and then kind of leads me to the question, um, Kenny, which I asked you when we met in Miami it's like, where do you see? I think a lot of these mentors, how big of an effect do a lot of these mentors have in helping drive traffic for the demand side versus like here's, here's the platform and then the brand kind of pushing, you know, marketing and things like that. Like where do you see that balance and where do you think like you've seen the most effect, if that makes sense.

Kenny Hanson (00:10:50):

Yeah. It's a great question. Um, and, and I love everything you said. I mean, we've had such good feedback, uh, pretty much across the board, you know, Ashley, you've got a great rating on the platform, uh, you and Ron and, and Rava as well. So, uh, love seeing that. And um, the question that you asked, I'd say it's Rick right now. It's pretty, it's probably 50 50, um, in terms of self-generated demand versus organic demand. Um, and there's this really, uh, amazing kind of like cross pollinating effect that happens where, um, you know, let's say RAA shares his profile and somebody discovers mentor pass for the first time and they join to book a call with RA and then once they're on the platform, they're like, oh, well Ash actually also offers this, you know, this other expertise or Eli is a customer expe uh, experience expert.

Kenny Hanson (00:11:44):

And so a lot of people are bringing on their own demand and then it starts cross pollinating. Um, you know, we've mostly bootstrapped the company, we raised a couple hundred thousand thousand dollars from our community. So we don't have a big team. You know, we're a team of, of just under like two and a half resources right now. We don't have a big ad budget. And so what we're really doing is I'm spending time with our mentors and spending time with our customers. And I'm really trying to invest in the community and build relationships and, and really build a community that's building itself. Instead of, you know, me being the one out there in the front and saying, we've got everything solved. It's like, Hey, let's solve this together. Let's let's help each other out. And, and while it's probably, uh, we've probably grown a little bit slower because of that.

Kenny Hanson (00:12:27):

I think the, the actual like fabric of the community is a lot stronger now. And the relationships that have been built a lot are a lot stronger because you have people that are genuinely like referring each other business that have either met through mentor pass, or they had some other connection before and it, they strengthen that through mentor pass, but that's the idea is like we really want to build a team and then together, we all want to, you know, really come together and solve problems for our clients. So it's probably 50 50 right now, a little, it's probably a little bit more platform driven than it is mentor driven. Um, but as we grow, I think that balance will start to, to change a little bit. And it's the personal brands of our mentors are a lot stronger right now. And then as the platform grows, we'll start to see that come up as we start to borrow some brand from all of our mentors. And then eventually it's like, if you were one of the first houses on Airbnb, you were very handsomely rewarded when the, the traffic really picked up. So the people that were really, you know, the early group right now, as we continue to scale are gonna be, you know, it's gonna be hard to unseat those folks at the top of the rankings.

Kenny Hanson (00:13:31):

I love that. I love that. And the one thing I'll say is, I, I know, you know, you guys talk a lot about customer acquisition, you know, that's the topic of the podcast. And for me, it's, it's really interesting, cuz like I said, we're not doing any paid advertising. We've got some very, very fundamental, uh, email flows set up there. We're not doing a lot of campaigns on email. Um, and it's, it's very two unique approaches from the tech world to the eCommerce world where eCommerce is like so driven by programmatic customer acquisition and, and advertising and, and things of that nature. And then on the tech side, it's like talk to your customers and build word of mouth. And so that's absolutely what we've done as a tech platform is just get hands on with as many customers as possible, do everything we can to solve their problem.

Kenny Hanson (00:14:22):

And then that word of mouth starts to grow. And then once the bus business starts to grow, it's like, then you can start to layer on some paid advertising and some more, um, maybe scalable marketing channels. But at the, the very beginning, it's really focused on that word of mouth and then pouring Fu uh, fuel on the fire. So I, I think it's almost an interesting topic for us to discuss. Do you think that more eCommerce and, and consumer products brands would be better off if they took maybe more of a tech approach and didn't go, you know, paid advertising right out of the gate and they just focused on building relationships and, and solving problems for customers and then building a more organic foundation, which they could then pour, uh, fuel on the fire later on.

Ash Melwani (00:15:06):

Yeah. Um, I think, I think it's a, I think it's a great idea. The one probably caveat there is like AOV is very, very different, right? So for something like triple or mentor pass, right? The AOV is a lot higher. Right. Um, for something like us, it's like, all right, well I'm selling a $40 collagen protein. I need a good amount of customers to, to, to scale. But the thing is, is that I think for us where we do it, we try to do it side by side is with our community. Right. So, you know, funnel people into, you know, the Facebook group, 50,000 plus members that kind of helps that side of it. Right. Where it's a little bit more word of mouth, Hey, I'm in this community, join this community, check it out, that type of stuff. Um, but to your point, yeah.

Ash Melwani (00:15:55):

I mean, it's, it's, it is tough. I, I think it is tough. I think the, the way that you guys have approached it, even like Kenny and Robin and, and triple in general, do you guys, the way that you guys have approached, it has always been a build a community first. Right. Um, you know, you guys started on, I, I don't know if Kenny, you can answer this, but I know triple was pretty heavy on Twitter. Right. Then moved to LinkedIn and then moved to paid. Um, you know, just building those, like those connections with those, the, the, I guess where your potential customers are hanging out, right. The community being Twitter, LinkedIn, I think that was the best strategic move that you guys probably could have done. Um, and then even paid, it's like, it's so tough because one, your, your AOVs are like super high and two it's more or less a subscription.

Ash Melwani (00:16:44):

Right. So your, your cost for acquisition is even higher. Um, in like, I, I really think even just like relying on some of these mentors to like bring in a good amount of traffic and then using them as trying to, trying to relate it to the paid side where you're almost whitelisting them as like the ads, you know? Yeah. So like pushing some of their content that they might be tweeting about, or even, you know, posting on Facebook or LinkedIn. So I think that's where the two kind of could probably collide from like a organic and paid side, but definitely tough for the direct to consumer. Um, unless you really like start with community first and have a group of people there and then try to sell them, but getting those people into that group it's unless you have like a really big organic, like, reach like influencers, um, again, it goes back to where you guys started. So I think you guys nailed it right there.

Kenny Hanson (00:17:36):

Yeah. And I I'll just pull up a quick story of a, a founder, um, named Damien. Um, and he, he has a company called F in good snacks and they're healthy cookies, um, that are designed to be eaten at night. If you have late night cravings, like I do, it gets, you know, 11 o'clock like it is right now. And you start snacking, I've got some stuff that's not as healthy, but Damien created this product. And he's, I mean, maybe in the whole time that I've built mentor past talk to probably 2000 founders, he's, he's definitely up there in the top five, most impressive people that I've met with and to see the way that this guy, he's a young guy, he's in his early twenties, if that, and he's just, he's sending every single customer, a personalized video, he's writing personalized letters to everyone.

Kenny Hanson (00:18:19):

He's, he's traveling to LA and meeting with people and, and talking to them in person. And I, it just, like I've said, I've talked to so many eCommerce founders, and so often they'll come to us and they'll say, Hey, we need help with finding the right agency to, to, uh, you know, run, run ads for us. And we're like, wait, have you, have you figured out if you're solving a problem yet? And, um, and so it's like, once you, you have product market fit, it's such a great way to scale, but it just feels like from my perspective, so many people are jumping the gun and they're almost moving past that piece of mentorship or strategy. And they're jumping straight into execution. They're saying, Hey, don't talk to me about all of these like options and finding the right channel. I'm this type of business.

Kenny Hanson (00:18:59):

And this is how we scale is going through, um, you know, advertising and then, and then you see the risks of it with the market changing and things like that. So, um, it, yeah, it's just like, as we intersect these two worlds of tech and e-commerce, I wanna figure out what are the e-commerce things that we can bring into tech and what are the tech things we can bring into e-commerce. And from my experience, one of the biggest things would be just talking to more customers and, um, and trying to build a little bit more word of mouth and making sure you're truly solving a problem.

Rabah Rahil (00:19:28):

Yeah. So I definitely have some views. I'm not gonna sound as good as these two guys, cuz their mics are so much better than mine. And if you're watching this, you're seeing my scrubby video, I'm sorry, I'm not in Austin studio folks, but hopefully this ran still help out. So to your point, Ash, so I went to school for economics. So I might have a bias where I see pretty much the world through the lens of economics. And so we really don't. We, we have, so our kind of, AOBs what we call an average selling price, but we don't really think of that as much. Like there it's definitely on our mind, but what we think about more so is our LTB to ratio because we're a subscription product. So we really don't care about the ASP as much as we wanna keep that ratio intact.

Rabah Rahil (00:20:06):

And usually investors like to see like a three to one. So, um, if you take your LTB divided by your, you wanna have that to equal round three, if you're above three, killing it, if you're below three, you need to figure out how to lower your, but to your point as well. Kenny, I think a lot of people in the DTC realm that aren't in that subscription based model. Cause unless you're in subscription based model, the LT doesn't make you need to doing where looking at a on first purchase kind thing or some sort of LT LT kinda I, Kenny I think it was actually a, of the market where there was just such a bull market where like, if you were doing anything, you were just make money. And so I think what you're seeing now is a big market correction and it's actually a fantastic, a guy named Rob Frazier who runs S who's Fantastics.

Rabah Rahil (00:20:57):

He actually got me off my stance addiction, super, super awesome socks. He was on the podcast and I asked him, I like, Hey, if I give you million, what would you do with it? And to your point, Kenny, he didn't say ads. He said, I would spend it on product and send it out to people because I'm solving a need. And these, the more socks I can get on feet, the more money I make because people just love my product and they know it's solving a need. And so I think you're right, Kenny, I think people jump into paid acquisition way too early. And it's not necessarily that they don't have the quote unquote product market fit, but there's so many other ways that you can deploy. Like at the end of the day, you're just deploying capital. And so is that capital deployment gonna be more successful in just pissing, like lighting hundred bills on fire on Facebook?

Rabah Rahil (00:21:40):

Or can you like ask to point, build a community, activate micro influencers, get free product in the hands of people. Like there's all these other ways that you can approach acquisition, but that acquisition can have these halo effects in terms of building that community, building these foundational things. And then you get somebody like Ash or then you can sign up for, and then learn to these. So many people built castles on so to speak. And then the actual market kind of just shook everything out. And then it's like, oh, there all you have no foundation. The hurricane hit. And now your whole marketing ecosystem just imploded because the algae that was these enterprise Facebook ads just went away and that was what your whole market ecosystem thrived on. And now you just have this ecosystem collapse and you're like, what's going on? It's like, well, cuz you never really had a business.

Rabah Rahil (00:22:29):

You're essentially just arbitrage you, these underpriced ads for shitty products and you were getting away with it. And like there's no judgment on that. It's totally fine. But you're not seeing like there's so many DTC brands that you started today would never make it because like they just built off of underpriced inventory that was really well targeted. And so I think that there's just been a really like, you know, for good or worse, whatever your judgment is on it. It it's been a market correction where you have to have this fundamental product market fit. You're solving a job to be done for people. Why are people hiring your products? Furthermore, like, are you creating value? And then is that value? Are you building MOS around it? Like for example, like triple, well, our community's starting to become a moat. Like our slack, group's over a thousand people now Ash is active in there.

Rabah Rahil (00:23:13):

We have just hire fire team, doing incredible stuff in creative channel. And it's not necessarily like product differentiator, but it moat around your brand. It's really hard replicate. Like people aren't say they could replicate all our tech. They're not just instantly replicate vibrant group of a thousand people or to ass analogy. Like you're not gonna replicate your incredible, like every geek out I've been the A's legendary, this isn't something overnight compounds. It takes time. It takes these things where it's like, yeah, I can just get a million dollars and spend a million dollars on ads. Anybody can do that. This is, this is not a capital constraint, it's a market constraint. And so that's kinda where my, my ends, where I think people were focusing on the non fundamentals and these quick wins where it's like, it's fine to get that, but you're not gonna build these lasting sustaining really legacy businesses that are generating value from people.

Rabah Rahil (00:24:06):

It's basically just the quick hit kind of terrible junk food versus actual nutritious stuff that people are gonna the not only the job to be done, but when you create value in somebody's life and like for mentor past, it's a great example. Like when you make people feel successful, there's just such a feeling that can't be replicated, that it really ingrains in that emotional center of your brain that like it no longer becomes like a transaction, but it's more so like, oh man, I, this is making my life better. I'm so dumb to not do this. It's it's more of like an IQ test of like, why don't I just give Kenny more money because this is making my life so much better. And I think that has been lost a lot in, in the, the previous years of marketing. You seen the people that didn't invest in those strategies really, uh, uh, the chickens are coming to roo kinda thing, but there we go and

Kenny Hanson (00:24:54):

Ran. Yeah. I, I always go back to like the Seth good school of marketing and it's, it's very different from what a lot of people come in and they're looking for, and it's like, what's your purple cow? Like what what's remarkable about what you're doing that people are actually going to talk about. And if you have something there, then yes, you can go and you can tell that story through all these channels, advertising, being one of them. But from what, from my perspective, I see so many people that wanna skip that purple cow in figuring that out. And I think from my perspective, it's because it's hard. I don't know if we can cuss on here, but it's hard F and work. Um, it, it's, it's really hard work. It's the stuff that you wanna try to avoid. It's like, Hey, we're not really differentiated, but if we just skip past that and we don't talk about it, then maybe we can forget about it and we can just focus on, uh, you know, something else.

Kenny Hanson (00:25:43):

And so you've gotta ask yourself the really hard questions and say, why is this a remarkable product? And why are people going to tell their friend about it or buy it for someone for, uh, a holiday or something like that. And, and I think that's like a big piece from, from all the folks that I've talked to. It's like the good companies understand it. And a lot of the others that don't last, they, they, they try to skip past it and move right into execution. And it's another thing that I've heard from some of our, our best mentors and like Nick Sharm is one, that's always pounding this. He, he tells founders that come to him like, Hey, don't spend on ads yet. You're like, you've got no business and, and you're gonna just waste your money and, and, and throw it down the drain. So yeah, just that taking a really hard look and saying like, what's remarkable about our product. What's the story that people are gonna tell about us and focusing on that before you dive in and start spending a ton of money.

Rabah Rahil (00:26:36):

Beautiful, beautiful. I love it. Well, across all these incredible mentors, you said almost over 200 of 'em.

Kenny Hanson (00:26:44):

What are you

Rabah Rahil (00:26:44):

Seeing in terms of kinda, uh, any kinda through, through lines or what people are succeeding with failing with like give us

Kenny Hanson (00:26:51):

Some color? Yeah, so the, the evolution of the marketplace when we first started about, like I said, about a year and a half ago, um, we, we were really focused on, on SaaS companies and just really general tech startups. And then we got into direct to consumer and Nick was our big, uh, our first big direct to consumer, um, mentor. And then from that, we brought on a lot of great growth marketers and everything has been about growth on the business. Um, and so, uh, that that's been a big focus. What we're start starting to see now is, uh, a larger focus on operations. And it's a, a kind of a role or a spot in our mm-hmm <affirmative>, um, roster that we're looking to fill. We just brought on the old VP of operations from dollar shave club who's doing really well. Um, but oh, it was, let's go, uh, you know, it really started general growth marketing, and then we started to get into media buying quite a bit.

Kenny Hanson (00:27:41):

And then now we're starting to see, Hey, how do I acquire customers outside of, of a, you know, the traditional digital advertising and also some, um, demand for operations. I, I think the one thing that's probably said most, um, is what, what are you doing on TikTok? Uh, out of everything that seems to be the question it's like, yeah, Hey, we're spending this much on Instagram this much on Facebook. And then the mentor's always like, okay, what are you running on TikTok? How much are you spending on TikTok? And from our lens like that, there's so much demand there. Nobody <laugh>, <laugh>, um, there's so much demand there. I, I put out kind of a cryptic tweet about a new mentor named Danielle. So the era who's like an unknown person in the world. If you can get her on the podcast, you have to, I can make the intro.

Kenny Hanson (00:28:27):

Um, but she's spending, I think, you know, a million dollars a month with her clients on TikTok, um, and is doing it very effectively. And I put out this tweet about her and I said, she's an operator, not a brand builder. So you probably don't know who she is. And we got a ton of demand from that. And so obviously people are trying to crack the code with TikTok. I think Ash, you're probably talking about a lot in your conversations. I know Cody's talking to, to folks about it. Um, and so I think that's the biggest demand area on the growth in, in acquisition side. Um, and then a lot of people are talking about LTV as well. Um, you know, as, as KAK goes up, you, you know, you mentioned the ratio before of K and LTV. It's like, you gotta bring the CAC down and you gotta bring the LTV up. So folks like Eli that really focus on retention and, and customer experience are also doing very well, but that's kind of a general lay of the land right now. And we've got a, another big kind of new category that we'll be launching that will fit in very well with, uh, what we're doing today. But we won't quite reveal that yet.

Kenny Hanson (00:29:26):

<laugh>

Rabah Rahil (00:29:28):

Oh, no, no. Reveals on the, the pod. I

Kenny Hanson (00:29:31):

Bring you, this is part two in Austin.

Rabah Rahil (00:29:36):

Oh yeah. That's incredible, man. I think, think there's, that's super cool. How do you feel, or like, what are your thoughts in terms of, as you build out this kind of stable and catalog of mentors, um, how do you tackle the problem with discoverability? So as people get away from coming in, like, I, I know Ash is the, to crusher and he's the talk whisper. And I come here for Ash, but as mentor pass becomes just this knowledge base of everything, how do you bubble up or do, do you see that as a hurdle coming up or does that make sense? As I'm saying, as the stables and the brand equity kind of starts to flip where like I'm coming to mentor pass, not cuz Ash's on there, but because mentor pass is the thought leader in DTC, but now I wanna, who, who do I go to for operations? Who do I talk to about SAS or who do I talk to about, uh, customer experience, that kinda stuff. Have you thought about that or is that just kinda V2

Kenny Hanson (00:30:34):

V3 down the road? It's uh, it was a V2 V3 down the road and we're getting to V2 now. And so it's, um, I've, I've actually got a shared notes document with, um, with my co-founder Lawson and it's just like hard, it just says hard problems. And I think with every business there's like, you can build a good business without really solving hard problems. That's, that's what we've done right now. We haven't solved that hard of a problem. We've built very basic software and there's nothing that like we've built a good community and we've done some things well, but there's nothing that's like, this is a really fricking hard problem. Discovery is a really hard problem. And if we can solve discovery and a couple of other, you know, two or three others on that list, this can be a, you know, a billion dollar business.

Kenny Hanson (00:31:18):

And so there's lots of different ways that you can go about it. I think a lot of it comes down to collecting a lot of data. Um, and then having some really smart technology that can take, you know, basically, I mean the big vision of this is like, you know, 10 X of Google. I, I say Google organizes the world's information. Yeah. And mentor pass organizes the world's knowledge. And I'd say that less than a 10th of my knowledge is actually documented as information. I don't write a lot of blogs. You know, I don't do that many podcasts, not much of my knowledge is actually indexed by Google. And so if we can figure out how to build a system that can actually understand what's in your mind, what, you know, um, and then next time somebody has a question and they say, how do I do, you know, TikTok collagen?

Kenny Hanson (00:32:09):

And we can understand that that Ash knows this and talks about it very often. Then we can provide really smart recommendations and what that allows us to do, why it's so important is cuz right now we have 200 mentors and the reason we have so few mentors is cuz we haven't solved discovery, but once we do solve it, then we can scale to 50,000 mentors and you can still put in a simple query and get a really smart result, uh, on the way back. So I mean, that's like I said, what we're doing right now, it's, it's, it's working and everything like that. But if we really wanna scale this to the, to the, the size, it can be, those are two of the big things that we need to solve is, is one discovery. And then on the other side, it's quality on the, uh, supply side and, and uh, making sure that all of our mentors are, are following the right practices and are, are up to the right standards that we want.

Ash Melwani (00:32:57):

I think also one of the big things like for, for me, right? Like I was, I was literally talking to Nick the other day and I was like, is there anybody in my space that is doing? And I'm sure there are, but like, is there, who can I learn from that's doing better than I am. Right. Like that. And, and it's, I wish, like, I think, I think further down the line maybe for meant to pass, it's like having the mentors be so specific, like in what you are good at and like your industry that you're great in. Right? So like for example, I can talk to somebody who's killing it in apparel, but isn't gonna relate to me. Right. It probably won't. But like if I can talk to somebody who is in health and wellness is crushing, Facebook is doing this and being able to kind of like filter through that noise to get to that exact person that I can relate to.

Ash Melwani (00:33:50):

And that's probably like the key there, um, is getting, getting like, cuz there I'm sure even some of the calls that I've had, there's not, not that there's a mismatch, but like I'm sure there are other people that are better suited for that conversation. Like you're probably just coming to me because I'm, I'm putting out value on Twitter and you saw me and I offer mentoring, but I'm sure there's other people who are better suited for like specific industries. You know what I mean? So like, I think that's where it gets down to where it's like getting that granular filtering system in place where, I mean, you can, you can really get like 50,000 mentors on there and then really find like the top five people who are exactly what you need, you know?

Kenny Hanson (00:34:30):

Yeah, yeah. That data model is just so important. And we look at like, what are the, you know, 11 different factors that are really important in a quality mentor match. It's like, do you care about, um, you know, do you want an old mentor or a young mentor? Do you want a man or a woman? Do you want someone that's in your vertical or that has your horizontal skill set? Do you want someone that's regionally close to you? Do you want someone based on the, you know, size of the company that they work at? Do you wanna talk someone at a specific company? So there's like so many different elements that could go into it and then it's how do you build a user experience that doesn't feel like you're clicking buttons and filtering X, Y, Z, but you just naturally, whether it be with natural language or something like that, it feels like a, a smooth flow of discovering the right person of like I'm browsing through Airbnb and I'm gonna click on, you know, going to Paris and learning about, uh, Facebook advertising or something like that.

Kenny Hanson (00:35:19):

So how do we actually build a really, um, delightful user experience that is also very smart on the back end and connect you? And one thing that is always, um, really exciting for me is when we start to visualize this relationship map, it's gonna be so cool. Um, because there's some really, um, really interesting people that have come through our platform that we haven't named and, and will obviously keep it confidential, but it's like people that you look up to are probably getting mentored by folks that you might not look up to. Um, and so when we can start to build that and say, oh, the person that, you know, I thought that I wanted to get mentored by this person. And then I realized that they were actually getting mentored by that person. And you start to build out in like, you know, I grew up playing football, you talk about coaching trees and you see, um, one of my favorite books, the billion dollar coach.

Kenny Hanson (00:36:13):

Yeah. Um, you know, bill Campbell who was coaching Steve jobs and all of these people. And that's like, my biggest vision is I want to build the next bill Campbell, who's coaching and mentoring the best founders in the world. And I wanna be able to do that because we have like such good data about what makes a good coach, what makes a good match and who's really succeeding right now. And so I think that would be so cool if like, even if it wasn't related to mentor pass, if you could visualize a map of who's mentoring, who in the world, it would be like the most exciting thing, the coolest thing you could ever think of, like what, who does Elon Musk go to when he has a really hard problem? Is he going to David Sachs? If it's about operations, is he going to J you know, who is he talking to? Um, who is who's Emily Weis talking to when she's going through a really big decision? That to me is just like, I think that like, who's advising the, the player, you know, you've got Phil Jackson, you've got Michael Jordan. Everyone's focused on Michael Jordan, but who's the Phil Jackson in the DGC world. Um, that's advising the best of the best out there. So I think, you know, we're in a very unique position to be able to, um, actually like create a map of those relationships.

Rabah Rahil (00:37:24):

She just, that's interesting. She just left didn't she, or there was a good,

Kenny Hanson (00:37:28):

I told you about it today. Like she got the New York times, once again writes an article where it's like, this is the end of the girl boss, because she was moving from CEO to executive chairwoman. And I remember that today announced that he was moving from C to exec chair and everyone's like, oh, so great for Flexport. It's like just the same thing happened a week ago. And everyone said, oh, Emily, you know, she failed and she couldn't do it. That's why L scenes come in. But, um, yeah, no, I, yeah, she, she is amazing, amazing founder built an incredible, incredible, she's a crusher Robin. Who are your, who

Rabah Rahil (00:38:01):

Are your mentors? A crusher. Yeah, yeah. Right now, man. That's a great question. I mean, that has been one of the things that I've struggled with. So I actually see mentorship in like a three layer because that's, what's actually been really interesting about me path. So I see mentorship almost in, like I said, three layers where there's people that I can teach. So they're kind of people that are still, you know, where I was on my journey, but now I'm kind of a little bit past them and I can pass that and pay it forward. I see people where I can talk to that are on my level, um, where I can respectfully have a conversation and I respect their skillset and they respect me and we can have a very candid conversation. Then I have people that I wanna talk to because they're way farther than me, honestly, van the biggest person in my life right now, mentoring me, um, is gonna sound cheesy.

Rabah Rahil (00:38:57):

But Nick Shackleford, he's, he's doing a bunch of really cool stuff and it's not necessarily so much in the skillset. Um, but just more so in like the, the life he's building the value, he's creating a lot of the meta skills, um, that I really appreciate where I think he's, he's doing a lot of really cool stuff. Everybody that I interact with has a really good, uh, kind of, uh, like exterior perception of him. And then from me and him, like we text all the time, we're close now. And like, it's been cool, cause I've always kind of admired him, but I've met people before where, um, they say never like get to know your heroes kind of stuff. Um, and like once you do meet and you're just like, oh my God, it's a fucking horrible human like, oh, what I shoulda never got like the high resolution picture of you.

Rabah Rahil (00:39:41):

Cause when I didn't know you, like, I have this like view of you. Um, so I would say is probably really close Ash again has been super, super amazing where I've seen him just not only grow, but again, it's a challenge because there's a lot of people that I have like a Steve jobs or an Elon Musk or even a Bezos or like these people that I really like, I read tons of business. Memoirs still might like all these people, but it, sometimes you have to separate like the business acumen from the personal. And, and so it's been a challenge to find somebody that I want to emulate because there's a lot of people like I'm a huge capitalist. I wanna make all this money, all this stuff. But then some of these people, like you read more into their bios and stuff and they're not necessarily like, like jobs is a perfect example or there's, there's a lot of people that aren't necessarily, um, the best humans that like aren't really quite frankly good people or good such a bad descriptor, cuz it's good, bad, whatever.

Rabah Rahil (00:40:41):

But for people that I don't want to emulate in my personal life, but I do wanna emulate in my business life. And so the challenge that I've been trying to reconcile, like how closely are those linked, right? Like, can you be the super wealthy, amazing person, but also do good in the world and help people out and do these things? And so that's been something that has really challenged me in terms of finding a mentor because I have yet to discover people that have the business aspirations that I have as well as kind of my personal slash moral type of pathways that I want to go down. And so that's been something that has been, um, a real, a real struggle quite frankly for me, because I, I do have this huge capitalistic bent, but at the same time, like there there's some certain areas that don't necessarily reconcile, um, in terms of my personal life with being this super capitalist. So I super roundabout question outside of shout,

Kenny Hanson (00:41:43):

Give you real quick, Rob, what I'd say is like that, um, is something that we see often and the, and the one piece, like the one question I'd ask you is does it have to be one person? Um, and can you have different mentors for different aspects of your like, and looking up to somebody like Shaq because of his entrepreneurial success and also still being a great person. And then when you're trying to figure out how to make money, it's like, and obviously Shaq's been very successful, but, but I think that's one of the big challenges is everyone's looking at yeah, yeah. As perfect person. And we always call it like the capital M mentor. And it's almost, it's so hard to find that and you're gonna wait your whole life to find it instead. What, what I try to look at is like I learned customer experience from Eli.

Kenny Hanson (00:42:29):

I learned growth from this person. I learned how to be a great person from that person. I have an executive coach. So really starting to build, uh, a team of mentors around you. And that's the, the way that we built mentor passes. You know, you get credits every month, so you can talk to multiple people, but really building an infrastructure and saying, Hey, you're really great at this. And I might even be more professionally successful than you, but you understand, you know, balance and meditation really well. So you're gonna mentor mentor me on that one thing. And that's, I think a, a great way to kind of unlock that, uh, or, or get unstuck when it comes to finding that perfect person.

Rabah Rahil (00:43:06):

Did you just, honey, pitch me on mentor pass. I'm signing up today. That was incredible. That's exactly. I mean, it's, it's amazing though. Cause so I'm, I'm a big stoic I'm really into STO philosophy and all the killers like Seneca Marcus, Aras, like basically anybody that was anybody. It had exactly that where nobody had like a, a, you know, north star, everybody had their specific mentor, whether that be like in their religious area, in their accounting and finances and the relationships in their business. And everybody had a mentor that owned those styles of responsibility and it was your job as a person to synthesize all that, to get you to where you wanted to be. But that's a really eloquently person. I'm really glad at I really

Kenny Hanson (00:43:48):

Like that a lot. Um, Ash you're uh, who, who are your mentors? <laugh>

Ash Melwani (00:43:54):

Um, I think I have a very specific example of like where, when I first started, right. Like when I first started media buying and just getting into this world of startups, I think from day one, my, my, my mentor has always been Ron. Um, I think he like one, he, you know, got me the opportunity to work at this startup when we first started working together, just learning from him about what goes into just marketing in general. Like I was fresh off the boat from college with a finance degree and here I am working at a, on a marketing position. Um, you know, it kind of just, he, he has always been and will always be my biggest mentor. Um, now when it comes down to like specific skills, right. I think as, as a, as a media buyer, that's always been my, like my Mo and like my, my personal favorite thing to do in, in any business.

Ash Melwani (00:44:50):

Um, I, I mean, Shaq has always put out so much, you know, information. Um, a lot of these guys back in the day, like Tim by, um, I think between those two, those guys had always put out the information where it was like actionable things that as a media buyer I could do and test. Um, but what's really interesting now is that when this whole iOS thing had happened, I feel like it kind of reset everything and everyone was on this level playing field. It had, you had experience prior to that and everyone was on the same playing field where like, everyone's like, what the fuck do we do now? Right. And so like, now it's not like, Hey, um, again, like, Hey Shaq, like what have you figured it out? And it's like, not like, nobody's really figured it out. Right. So I think now at a point it's not like, who can you look up to?

Ash Melwani (00:45:41):

Who's like killing it, but it's like, Hey, who can you keep in your circle that like, Hey, did you try this? Oh, let me try that. Like, you know, just, just talking and kind of like, you know, um, just sharing what's going on in the industry. And I think that's where like, even Twitter has become such a, a huge thing where everyone's sharing their opinion on certain things like this might work for me, or this might not work for you. Like just testing these things. And like just one just community right now is like, I think, I don't know if this sounds cheesy, but like community is like the biggest form of mentorship right now, because like everyone's putting in a little bit, so like as much as you put in, you can get out. So I think, I think throughout my life, it's kind of changed. And I think now it's like, you know, just find a good group of people around you. Similar to what robo was saying is, you know, find people that are doing the same as you maybe a little bit better and just try and learn a little bit here and there

Kenny Hanson (00:46:39):

That's such a good insight. I mean, I hadn't thought about that. It really did reset the playing field, uh, in the advertising space where it's like, nobody has 13 years of experience anymore. <affirmative> everyone has zero years of experience in this new playing field. Yeah. And so it's really,

Ash Melwani (00:46:54):

We're all coming up on one year

Kenny Hanson (00:46:55):

Now. Exactly. It's really like, who's, who's in the weeds now who's operating, who's, uh, seeing the most stuff who's making the most decisions, making the most mistakes. And those are the people that, um, you know, those inches add up and, and three, five years from now, it's like, you know, shack will still be there. Of course he'll never get unseated, but there will be a new, a new group of Kings at the top and chains of the, the, uh, media buying space. <laugh>

Rabah Rahil (00:47:24):

That is a really interesting insight. Actually come, come with the hate light of your exclusion thing. Now this, the mic has just changed the game. I have some questions for you, Kenny, cuz that, that actually, is there ever any thought where mentor pass either moves into some sort of asynchronous format or some sort of small

Kenny Hanson (00:47:43):

Group yes. That you can buy into? Um, the asynchronous thing is a very interesting, um, opportunity and, and the reason that it's so compelling to me is because in this remote work world, we're all dealing with, uh, zoom burnout, and that's like a risk to our business. And also, I, I just generally genuinely care about our mentors. Like, you know, one of our mentors shared something on Instagram and I, I messaged her and I was like, Hey, I'm gonna cancel your call tomorrow. Like you need to take the day off. And I really just, I want, you know, I, I almost killed myself for my last career working in consulting and I don't want people to do that. I, I think that work life balance is important. So I think asynchronous is a really, um, great opportunity to, uh, give people a similar offering and similar value from a, a, a client perspective while also giving our mentors a way to do it with a little bit more flexibility.

Kenny Hanson (00:48:38):

Um, because I know being on back to back calls all day can be really draining. And so it's something that we looked at. We've got it on our product roadmap. It's just, you know, when it gets done. Um, and then on the other side of it, the peer group thing is really, um, it's so valuable. I just really, really, really force myself and force our team to keep things as simple as possible. Cuz I recognize how resource constrained we are and if I'm gonna do something, I want to do it really well. And I recognize that like facilitating a peer group is a very, uh, like great skill. That's learned over a lot of time. And I don't, I mean, I did some of it in my past life, but I don't, I don't really have it. And so to do it, to do it, we'd have to do it well, you know, on deck has done it extremely well.

Kenny Hanson (00:49:31):

Maven has done it very well. Um, and so it's something that we look at, but what we're actually probably gonna be doing this will be a little bit of a drop for you is, uh, a peer group for our mentors. Um, and doing that to help you all learn from each other and this Umhmm <affirmative>, we have a mentor named Megan Watkin. She just sold a, a D to C or a CPG portfolio for over a hundred million. And, um, she's in Y P and she just talks about how much value she gets from Y P O. And she was like, trust me, cuz she's the executive coach that I'm working with. She's like, Kenny, you guys are gonna, customers are going to benefit so much from your mentors talking to each other because you're gonna be able to share those best practices and say, oh, these are the six questions I'm asking a client when I open up a call and these are the things that I'm I'm, you know, learning.

Kenny Hanson (00:50:20):

And, and this is the way that I always close calls. And so for us, we see there's so much value for our value proposition for our mentees and our companies. If we can get our mentors, talking to each other to share those best practices. And then obviously from the mentors, we've got an incredible group in there. So as you can start to build those relationships, um, it's gonna be very valuable for you personally, as well as learning about how to become a better mentor and a better coach. So that is something that we're looking at in the short term, on the, on the supply side. Um, but on the mentee side, it's because we're like those people are investing in this. I, I really need to make sure that we've got a very polished, um, offering there so that that's not coming, uh, quite as quickly

Rabah Rahil (00:51:05):

That's what's up. Um, I don't, it

Kenny Hanson (00:51:07):

Stands for young president's organization. I, I just, uh, checked it out yesterday. Um, cuz I was talking to my co-founder. Got it. And so YPO and EO entrepreneurs, organization are two communities for yeah. So EO is, I think I knew EO. My understanding is EO is kind of the entry level. It's still, I think you have to run a business, that's doing over a million dollars in revenue. You have to have a net worth of a certain amount and then a bunch of other qualifications. Um, I think Y P O is very similar. I think Y P O might be a bit of a step up and then there's another organization called tiger. 21. I just watched the podcast. It, my first million where Sam par interviewed the founder of, uh, tiger 21 and the way that this guy, uh, compared them was the net worth of the members.

Kenny Hanson (00:51:54):

And I think it was like Y P O the average net worth was about around a million, uh, sorry. EO was around a million YPO was maybe 5 million and tiger 21, got, it was like a hundred million or 20 million or something like that. And so they really focus on, um, taking, uh, operators and entrepreneurs who have built wealth through their business and helping them transition from wealth generation to wealth preservation. And how do I take all this money that I've, I've, uh, earned and put 'em into the market, invest in real estate, everything like that, but they've built a very good, they have these forums where they're their peer groups meet monthly and it's been very effective in building those relationships, holding each other accountable and growing together. So we're borrow from that as much as possible to bring our approach.

Rabah Rahil (00:52:44):

That's incredible for question question. Now, you for mentor paths, how would you be looking at it? What would you be doing?

Ash Melwani (00:52:59):

That's a good question. Um, I think it's something similar to what I mentioned before, which is I would, I'd probably get your top mentors that do have a pretty decent following, um, you know, myself, um, Roba maybe Sharma, um, on jokes aside, but like getting some of these guys that do have, you know, a good, I guess, track record on the, on the platform and then, you know, kind of tweeting about their, their, um, I guess how their experience has been, and then also kind of whitelisting that, uh, through different platforms. So if, if we're talking about paid, literally showcasing as on the mentor side, what kind of experience they've had, um, what kind of stuff they're talking about? So like, if you have different people from different sectors or I guess niches, so, you know, growth or operations, finance brand building this and that, having a bunch of like those kind of put out content, right? So like almost like U GC style, but it's from the influencer. Um, and then just whitelist on, on everywhere you can Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, um, that would be on the paid side, I think, cause that that's probably where I would be thinking about.

Kenny Hanson (00:54:16):

I love that.

Rabah Rahil (00:54:19):

Awesome. I love it. Um,

Kenny Hanson (00:54:21):

Let's get creepy.

Rabah Rahil (00:54:22):

Okay. You ready for the creepy question guys? So last week, last time was, uh, we'll give you last week's Kenny, and then we'll do the, this week's. So last times was, uh, are you, are there more wheels in the world or more doors in the world? This is, this is a TikTok. Are you team wheels or team doors?

Kenny Hanson (00:54:43):

I'm team doors. Yes, because really rationale.

Rabah Rahil (00:54:50):

Interesting. Oh, so because when I

Kenny Hanson (00:54:52):

Thought about wheels, I thought about cars and I'm like, there's four wheels on a car, but there's also probably five doors. That was my way of getting there.

Rabah Rahil (00:55:02):

<laugh> not horrible. So the skyscraper I think is more compelling, but at the same time, um, like, I don't know what kind of chair you're sitting on, but like every office chair has like five wheels by itself. And then the other thing that broke the bank was, um, I guess Lego makes like a bunch of wheels. Um, like they make three wheels themselves,

Ash Melwani (00:55:24):

The volume it's,

Kenny Hanson (00:55:27):

Those are questionable wheels. <laugh>

Rabah Rahil (00:55:34):

Fair play has to be a load bearing a load bearing possibly. Um, amazing. Okay. So the new creepy question this week is if you guys could start a brand with any celebrity, what would the product be and who would the celebrity be? You wanna go first? You both

Kenny Hanson (00:55:52):

Want

Rabah Rahil (00:55:55):

Kenny guess first I'll plug mine. Then I'm doing, I'm doing the OG. Okay. Bo Jackson, I'm doing a supplement line kind of boring, but I wanna make some money. Bo Jackson is arguably best of all time. He's my favorite.

Kenny Hanson (00:56:12):

I'm gonna think

Rabah Rahil (00:56:13):

Out loud,

Kenny Hanson (00:56:14):

Technical. I'm gonna think out loud and

Rabah Rahil (00:56:16):

You're up, you ready?

Kenny Hanson (00:56:17):

Where my mind is going is who is somebody that has a really like I'm thinking Mr. Beast, um, who is somebody that has like a really authentic, authentic media presence? Like probably more YouTube long form. It's probably Joe Rogan that I'd wanna launch something with he's obviously already got whiskey. Um, but who's got like a really authentic media presence. That's not oversaturated, like they're, they're not overselling their, their audience already. Um, and then I think you'd probably get into the question of like, is this a one time like quick hit, then you'd probably go with like an older, greater, or is this like the lifetime of the business? Then maybe you bring in a younger demographic that can grow into it or something like that. Um, so that's where my mind is going. Oh,

Rabah Rahil (00:57:05):

I love that.

Kenny Hanson (00:57:06):

And then what kind of pro I probably like, Hmm. Yeah, something health and wellness related to, to Joe Rogan. He's obviously got on it and supplements and things like that. Maybe like a, a, oh, Ooh, Ooh. Um, I know what it is. I used

Rabah Rahil (00:57:24):

To work

Kenny Hanson (00:57:25):

A psilocybin mushroom company with Joe Rogan.

Ash Melwani (00:57:32):

Love it. <laugh>

Rabah Rahil (00:57:34):

Not horrible. That is, that is very, that's better than the Bo Jackson supplement. Interesting. Sam mind blowing, if you will. Um, if you even, he showed us the proof of work. I mean, Kenny you're, you're, you're above and beyond here.

Ash Melwani (00:57:53):

It's very solid cuz it's a similar approach that I would've taken. Um, I think I would go with like Dave Portnoy and like put out, I know he, I know he launched like the frozen pizza, but I would, I would redo it and like go big with it, you know? Um, and then maybe like even accessories around that. So like something to do with like food, maybe even pizza. Um, and then you can also like expand the line, like sauces, seasonings, like the whole thing, you know, whole kitchen. Uh, but yeah, that,

Rabah Rahil (00:58:29):

What if you just

Ash Melwani (00:58:30):

Everything you

Rabah Rahil (00:58:32):

Did a pizza holder. Yeah.

Kenny Hanson (00:58:34):

You your, I like pizza now. I'm seeing like everyone buying pizza ovens for their backyard. Yeah.

Ash Melwani (00:58:41):

Yep, yep.

Rabah Rahil (00:58:43):

Yeah. The Unni I think or something like that, the Anni something like that's supposed to really good. I do that. Those aren't. That was a hard question. Those are Kenny,

Ash Melwani (00:58:52):

Win out.

Rabah Rahil (00:58:52):

You win that one. I think got the three. I would invest in your company. That was really good. I like it. Um, alright boys, we're pushing up against it. Kenny tell people how they can follow you, how they

Kenny Hanson (00:59:02):

Can get more. Let's the mentor

Rabah Rahil (00:59:03):

Pass towards my

Kenny Hanson (00:59:04):

Friend. Um, one day I'll eventually change that I don't really work with no code anymore, but for now it's at no code Kenny and then mentor pass is <laugh> mentor pass is just mentor pass co um, and then email is Kenny mentor pass.co and then only fans. You can uh, no, we'll, we'll leave that one out for now. We'll just stick with mentor past Twitter. <laugh>

Rabah Rahil (00:59:34):

You gotta DM for that access. Amazing Ash. How do people find you? Let people know how to get access to your mentor. Pass the vitamin shop spiel

Ash Melwani (00:59:43):

Twitter at Ashburn Milani. Um, if you are needing some collage in your life, check it out on my.com or go to your nearest vitamin shop. If you go to a vitamin shop, take a picture of us. Send it to me, please, please, please. That'd be awesome.

Rabah Rahil (00:59:57):

Send a picture.

Ash Melwani (00:59:58):

Proud to say that I'm on mentor pass. Uh, so if you're, if you're looking for anything on growth, paid media, take talk, Facebook, Instagram, landing pages, anything on that realm I'm on there. Um, come check it out.

Rabah Rahil (01:00:14):

Amazing. Uh, if you want to get more involved in triple well folks, we are tri triple well.com. We're on the bird app at triple well. Um, we have an amazing newsletter that goes out every Tuesday, Thursday called whale mail, definitely subscribe there. And then I am also on Kenny's wonderful platform at mentor pass. So if you wanna, uh, support my ridiculous sneaker habit, I'm actually about to cops and heat. My dealer just dangled some ridiculousness in front of me that I don't know, like, you know, I've always been the, of the mind of like, you've already made the purchase in your mind. You just have to kind of like rationalize it. So that's where I'm at. Like, no I'm not buying these there's no, we spending that kinda money on shoes. And I know, and like I'll probably have 'em for geek out, but anyways, a hundred percent of my proceeds will go towards my sneakers.

Kenny Hanson (01:00:56):

You know your mentor, you know, your mentor is

Rabah Rahil (01:00:59):

Thank you. Taking the time. I know it's late there in Paris,

Kenny Hanson (01:01:02):

Orange county. That's where Shaq's proceeds are going and you're buying sneakers. So Hey, you gotta learn something from the, the

Rabah Rahil (01:01:21):

God

Rabah Rahil (01:01:25):

Amazing. Oh man. All right folks, if you like this episode, tell people to subscribe. We're on YouTubes, Kenny. You're the man. I can't wait to have you out. You gotta come out for the whales in September, um, to Austin. And if you ever come out and then Ash see you in a couple weeks, we'll be doing this, doing the thing. Yeah. Doing the thing live with, uh, Dylan from CRO testing. Kenny, you're the man go sign up. I'm gonna go sign up for mentor. Pass myself. I think it's actually the way I was thinking about it too, is it's almost a more, uh, effective executive coach. Cause I was thinking about getting an executive coach, but now I can have my executive coach live in these different realms.

Kenny Hanson (01:01:59):

Cool. We're

Rabah Rahil (01:02:01):

Corporate's really smart. I, you sold me it. Thank you for,

Rabah Rahil (01:02:06):

I got the gold BR now, baby, let's go. Let's light that thing up. You know what I'm saying? You know I'm insane. All right guys. Thanks so much. That's 13 in the books. Thank you guys for listening. Thanks for coming on, Kenny. Have what next you going? See there coming home or whatcha are you doing all right? Oh course. Maybe. Are you coming as or no? Whack. Whack. Yeah, we, we have Airbnb. You gotta, we're gonna have a triple warehouse. This is gonna be awesome. It be super fun. Yeah, you should. You should have done it as you should have done all folks longest clothes ever, but really fun. Kenny, thank you for dropping all the bombs. Ash is always the, the setup looks great, man. I'm really, I'm a, I gotta tell you. Yeah, amazing all guys. Thanks. So that is, uh, an episode of a.

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