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Podcast

The Snow Brothers From Dentists to DTC Titans

November 3, 2022

57:05

Hosted By

Rabah Rahil
CMO at Triple Whale

Guests

Daniel Snow
Jonathan Snow

Episode Description

In this episode of You're Not Your ROAS we have on the Snow brothers and go over what it's like building out a DTC marketing agency. We also go over the pros and cons of living in Miami, working as dentists as well as the trials and tribulations of start-up life.#ROAS

Notes & Links

📧Subscribe to Whale Mail for exclusive industry insights and in-depth marketing breakdowns: https://www.getrevue.co/profile/tripl...

🐦 Follow us on Twitter for Industry insights https://twitter.com/triplewhale

Follow the people featured in this episode here:

- Rabah's Twitter: https://twitter.com/rabahrahil
- Daniel's Twitter: https://twitter.com/iamdansnow
- Jonathan's Twitter: https://twitter.com/drjonathansnow
- Snow Marketing: https://thesnowagency.com/

Transcription

Jonathan Snow (00:00):

I think it's really important that we found the right middle management people that we knew. We could finally hand things off to and trust that they knew exactly how me and Dan would think, and then make sure that that message gets relayed. And the people that they bring on the train underneath them are being a train the same way that Dan and I would do it. So I think it took at least a year for us to get to that point. You know, we're just over two years old. Now as an agency, I would say in the first year, Dan and I were way more hands on, on the training process on the day to day functions on account management. And once we were able to grow the team and had people that had been with us for, for years, we were very comfortable handing off those rings to them to then train the next droves of people, especially

Rabah Rahil (00:56):

All right, folks, I don't know how we did it, but triple well is starting to gain some traction episode 18. And we're bringing you the snow brothers, the DTC juggernauts, the snow agency representatives are here in the flesh. Daniel, Jonathan. Welcome.

Jonathan Snow (01:11):

Thank you. Great to be here. Thanks for having us.

Rabah Rahil (01:15):

Yeah. Fantastic. And so you guys are in Miami. Yeah.

Jonathan Snow (01:20):

Fortunate. We, Dan made fun about a year ago that, uh, I got a little jealous after seeing his backgrounds for six months of, you know, nice sunny beaches. And then I had snow in my background, so I had to make the move as well. So I moved over here about six months after Dan did.

Rabah Rahil (01:40):

Oh, how cool. Cause you guys are, uh, Jersey boys originally, right? You went to school out there,

Jonathan Snow (01:44):

Born and raised Jersey guys.

Rabah Rahil (01:46):

Yeah, there you go. I love always

Jonathan Snow (01:48):

New Jersey at heart, but not definitely never going back. Miami is the new home.

Rabah Rahil (01:53):

I'll tell you what. I came from the Midwest and, uh, I'm from Indiana after moving here and not doing a winter like F that dude, I will never go back this note, maybe Colorado or some kind of fun snow, but Indiana's just flat miserable. Like, yeah. I, I don't think weather can make you sad per se, but I think it can make it much or much harder to be happy where it's like, it's just hard to be like healthy, active, no sun when it's freezing out there's ice. Like, I don't know, just not my jam, no judgment, but uh, I'm with you guys, I'm more of a tropical. Yeah. Uh, what's your favorite part of Miami versus New Jersey outside the weather,

Jonathan Snow (02:28):

Outside the weather and outside the beach? Uh, so my favorite thing about Miami personally is the community that's building here. So yeah, there's like a very energetic kind of like new energy. That's just been injected ever since the pandemic came around, people have been moving and like essentially flocking from Miami, from west coast, you know, from California, lots of people I've met from LA San Fran, San Diego ton of people from New York, New Jersey, the Northeast in general have come down here and everyone seems very like-minded. Um, so everyone that's in Miami is very excited to meet new people network. Everyone's always down to hang out. You know, it's, it's very easy to make friends and, and, and meet colleagues and everyone's up to some really cool things around here, a lot of entrepreneurs and, uh, and that's like the most exciting thing in my perspective.

Rabah Rahil (03:17):

Oh, it, what about you Daniel?

Daniel Snow (03:19):

I would say the same thing. Um, I, uh, I would say Miami is just, and I've said this since I've been living here a year ago, uh, in four days will be my one year anniversary, but a year ago I would say it was a very, um, exuberate time. So to speak for the whole kind of Miami tech startup scene, as I'm sure everyone saw on Twitter. And, um, it's still like, there's still, it still has that type of energy. And what's awesome is that because everyone is moving from all different parts of the, of the country and even the people who lived in Miami are now excited to be in this sort of startup D to C et cetera ecosystem. And unlike, I felt like many other cities, even like New York city, New Jersey, where it's kind of closed off, like who, you know, who, you know, exclusive, uh, Miami's very open and people that are very open. So it's very easy to make new friends, uh, go to awesome events constantly. And everyone's just always so happy to meet you people. So, um, that plus, like you said, hard to get over the weather and, and tap just to throw that in there.

Rabah Rahil (04:25):

Yeah. I love that. Yeah, that's fantastic. Okay. So Jonathan, this one's for you, you have kind of a unique background, right? Where, um, you're actually certified dentist. And if my stocking notes are correct, you were, uh, you finished in the top five of your class, correct. Of your dentist. That is, is that, is that accurate? Oh, wow. So we have, we have a, a Sivant here, right? Yeah.

Jonathan Snow (04:46):

You, you dug pretty deep for that information. I don't even know where that

Rabah Rahil (04:48):

Was listed. I stock it baby. <laugh>

Jonathan Snow (04:51):

So, uh, very unique background, totally unrelated to marketing. I mean, I could probably take up the whole hour now just telling you about the background and how I got from being a dentist all the way to where Dan and I are now being the founders of an agency, but long story short. Yes. I graduated dental school in 2014 as a general dentist. Then I served as a dentist in the us air force. I was stationed in, uh, Louisiana and Shreveport Louisiana, uh, served as a dentist there for three years at the air force base Barksdale air force base. Uh, and then shortly after that, uh, so I did three years there. Then I applied for orthodontics residency. So it was always my goal as a child growing up since I had braces in seventh grade as like one day I wanna be an orthodontist. Uh, so you have to become a general dentist first, then you have to go through an extra, so dental schools, four years after a four year college and then to specialize to be an orthodontist is another three years. So I did a three year residency program in Brooklyn at my monies medical center where I specialize in orthodontics. So I am an orthodontist. Wow. Uh, I do not practice anymore because I just don't have enough time in the day to handle two careers. You know, I still have a wife that I need to pay attention to every now and then. Um, so I wish there were more hours in the day to kind of juggle both, but no more time. Unfortunately, the agency is where my head is at full time.

Rabah Rahil (06:12):

I love that man. And I, I always find it unique when people come from, you know, um, just really interesting backgrounds. Did you find, so obviously, um, for people that don't know, um, dentist school can be actually more rigorous than actual MD is what I've heard. Right. Like it's a pretty challenging curriculum. And then the residencies just as brutal as an MD. And so how did all, what, and then, so you're obviously in the armed forces and stuff, how does that translate to actually starting and running an agency? Like where, where did that come from? Right. Cause those are just totally orthogonal. I mean, oh yeah. There's not a lot of touch points on orthodontist and a, a DTC agency owner.

Jonathan Snow (06:53):

Yep. And, and it's funny, cuz I would say in general doctors and dentists are like the anti-business people. They just they're in like a, you know, in their zone, they're the opposite of entrepreneurial and business mind, all they know is their science and their craft and that's what they're good at. That's what they stick to. Yep. And you know, so for me to have the total opposite perspective as well is, is kind of unique. Um, so how did I get there? Uh, so when I was in the air force as a general dentist, uh, air force days are very short or I should say they're they're long, but they, they start very early and they end very early. So I was in the middle of nowhere in Louisiana, uh, finished the work day at 4:00 PM. And I had a lot of free time on my hands and there was literally nothing to do.

Jonathan Snow (07:36):

And that's when Dan was actually building his affiliate marketing platform and he asked me if I wanted to get involved and you know, I was like, yeah, sure. I'll learn this, you know, influencer marketing, I'll take a look at this. Anything I get involved in, I get really passionate about. And you know, the passion was pretty, I would say profound. And I just, you know, buried my head in, in an influencer marketing for those three years mastered it. We built Dan's affiliate marketing platform to, I don't even remember the numbers. It was, you know, seven, eight figures a year in revenue. Um, ended up working with all the celebrities and influencers on Instagram that you see today. And we decided, Hey, why don't we, uh, start punching our own brands and leverage this network that we've built on all these, you know, all the affiliates that we have on this platform.

Jonathan Snow (08:22):

We have such a powerful tool now let launch our own brands and, and see what we could do with this. And that was the start of our DTC days right there. Uh, so we launched our first brand. My wife ended up fulfilling all of our orders outta my garage in Louisiana. Oh God. Yeah. So it, we got overrun with orders and then, you know, that only lasted for six months because we outgrew my garage and Dan ended up hiring some fraternity brothers that, you know, cause at the time I think Dan was actually studying to also go to dental school. Uh, and so he was in his last year of college, I think when this all started exploding. And so he just got some fraternity brothers in some random office space and Dan could tell the story there, but I think they got kicked out quickly after that, of that office.

Jonathan Snow (09:07):

Cause it was like literally boxes of, of products from Florida ceiling. And uh, we outgrew that and then ended up going office hopping for, you know, the next two years as we started growing that brand and then many other brands. So that first brand did really well. And we said, let's try this, let's launch another brand using the same strategy, totally different product, uh, totally different category, vertical products. And let's just use the same blueprint, see how that does same reproducible success. You know, the, I think in the first six months we did eight figures in revenue on a Shopify store brand new. And uh, then we said, let's try it on a third store, a fourth store. And it, we were in the same explosive results, very predictable. So we knew we were onto something in that point in time. Um, and as all this stuff was blowing up, that's when I was, I was actually actively applying to orthodontics residency.

Jonathan Snow (09:58):

And so that was always my dream. You know, like you said, I finished top five in my class in dental school. That's almost a requirement to be able to get accepted into an orthodontics residency. So we had all this crazy wild success in DTC and Dan and uh, you know, everyone else that knew me, they were like, why would you keep doing dentistry? Daniel was trying to convince me, don't go to orthodontics residency, don't do it. We, we have something special. We, I need your full time, like, you know, move back to New Jersey and, and we'll just build this thing. And I said, I'll do both simultaneously. So I got accepted at ortho residency. And then, you know, next thing you know, this thing is getting really, really big. And now, uh, you know, TC community is very small. So brands started taking notice of what Dan and I were doing, started getting a name for ourselves in the community.

Jonathan Snow (10:44):

Next thing you know, we have people knocking on our door saying, Hey, can we pay you money to run the same marketing strategies, but for our brands? And we're like, I guess we could try that. Why not? We have like a whole internal media buying team that we, you know, had fully trained, ready to go. Let's let's see what happens over this one client that client did really well. They referred their friend. Next thing you know, we have, you know, eight clients and then we actually own eight of our own brands and that was our inflection point. Oh, and this is while I'm in my first year of orthodontic re I was just gonna ask about yeah. What, and, uh, and then that was our inflection point where we had to decide, are we an e-commerce holding company or do we wanna be a full service agency?

Jonathan Snow (11:22):

Totally different business models, totally different strategy at scale. And we decided, you know, what's our main goal, long term. If we wanted to be an e-com hold company, that would be to own a hundred plus brands and, and keep scaling this thing. So what do we need to do to get there? We would need to build an agency essentially. So we're like, no matter what we decided to choose the next path would be to build our own full service agency to support a hundred plus brands. So we made that decision while I was first year, uh, resident in, in orthodontics. And I lived in Edgewater, New Jersey at the time, had to commute an hour and a half to two hours each way to Brooklyn, my residency while juggling, you know, building all these brands and an agency at the same time, it got pretty chaotic.

Jonathan Snow (12:02):

But, you know, I was a, a pretty motivated, uh, individual and I wanted to do both. I did both. And, uh, I think I proved Dan wrong, but you know, once ortho residency was over, that's actually when, when it was peak COVID and uh, I thought that was a good time to, you know, that that would be a good transition. I could always do dentistry again. Um, that's going nowhere. I had my license and, and my skills forever. So riding the wave still with this agency, haven't looked back since I finished ortho residency in, uh, June of 2020.

Rabah Rahil (12:32):

That's absolutely incredible. Yeah. So, so Daniel, take me through the pitch cuz my, if my notes are correct, you're the younger brother. Yeah. So you're telling big brother, Hey man, you should quit this thing. You should come do this crazy shit with me. Come on, man. We're getting kicked out of places. We got fire code violations cuz there's too much product everywhere. Like come on man. Like, so take me through that pitch and then the, then you get 'em to Miami as well. So, so how, how did that kind of just, can you take us through that backstory?

Daniel Snow (13:01):

Yeah. Um, so I think, you know, well, so, so the pitch, oh, so the pitch on, on, uh, on, on, on, on going full time with the agency or, or, or just getting into it in the first place,

Rabah Rahil (13:15):

I mean, I mean both cuz it, it just kind of funny for me to see the, the younger brother kind of give life advice to the older brother, right. Where the younger brother's kind of messing around with this little fiddly thing, like, oh, I'm messing with this DTC affiliate stuff where it's like, dude, I'm trying to be a mother effing orthodontist, like get outta my hair bro. Like, and so I'm sure there's, there was a little bit of tension there and then once you see the, the, the money kind of coming in or just like the economics I'm there, that's kind of where your eyes open up. Right. Jonathan, where you're like, oh man, maybe, maybe this is a little more than talk. Like maybe I need to start.

Daniel Snow (13:46):

Don't need to, I don't need to do the pit. Explain the pitch. You just did it for me. <laugh>

Rabah Rahil (13:51):

There you go. Let's go be rich bro. Come on. So that's

Daniel Snow (13:54):

Pretty much what happened. Um, at least that's, that's how he got into it. Um, so like, like he mentioned caffeine digital back in 2015 was blowing up. Um, and I was hiring everyone else around me. John had a ton of free time on his hands in the middle of Louisiana. Um, so what, you know, he, he, he wanted to stay busy. He saw us hiring a ton of my friends and he was interested in getting involved. So that's, that's how he got into it. And then, um, it, when after we sold the brands and decided to launch the agency, um, it's as you know, agencies are just so time consuming, scaling people, processes, things are changing nonstop. And uh, and that was when he decided to go full time, especially during COVID it was, you know, the best time for e-commerce oh gosh. Ever, ever, ever

Rabah Rahil (14:47):

A

Daniel Snow (14:47):

Hundred percent. So, um, hopefully we'll get back to those golden promised lands one, but oh yeah. Um, so our team grew during COVID I think from like 20 to 80 employees, something along those lines. Oh wow. Yeah. And uh, so we had a massive year of growth and um, and that was how, and in terms of Miami, Miami didn't didn't need, uh, much salad, easy

Rabah Rahil (15:11):

Pitch.

Daniel Snow (15:12):

Yeah. So when I move, when I first moved, I wasn't, I didn't say I'm moving here forever. I still had my place in Jersey. Um, but I was freezing cold and um, everything was shut down. Miami was open and warm. So I said, let me go check this out. What's going on over here. And first you got there. I was in love with it, just like John said, um, you wanted to do the same and once you're in Miami, you, you, you realize why the hell was I living in New Jersey for so long hundred percent? Uh, you know, so it's hard to make a move. It's never easy to move, but once you do, it's pretty eye opening, um, in terms of just quality of life. And so many other reasons, like you mentioned, uh, on top of just the, the great startup scene over here. So, um, yeah.

Rabah Rahil (15:56):

I love that. And, and to be Frank too, you know, we're all capitalists on here. Um, the tax treatment's way better. <laugh> like new Jersey's crazy dude. Like, cuz that was a Texas incentive too. So it was like

Daniel Snow (16:06):

A hundred percent you do the math. It's like you save so much just off that, uh,

Rabah Rahil (16:12):

Totally dude sunshine and taxes have been,

Daniel Snow (16:14):

Becomes a complete over.

Rabah Rahil (16:17):

Yep, absolutely. And you've seen that kind of in that, what you guys are talking about, that population migration of pretty much sunshine and taxes. You have Arizona, Texas, and uh, Florida. We just, you're just blowing up because there there's that aspect of like, Hey, I have money. California's fantastic. But it's super expensive. There's a lot of craziness there. It's always on fire. There's just a lot going. I always joke about California as like the crazy hot girl where it's like, she's so beautiful. There's all these ecosystems. You can go see it, but man, she's crazy. She could be on fire flooded. Like there's just so many natural disasters at the same time. Love I would have to. Right. Because it's the most beautiful state my, or I mean Colorado, why there's some other ones, but I mean, in terms of like, you can get beats, you can get mountains, you can get desert you. I mean, it's just gorgeous if you're into that. Uh, and so, um, but yeah, there's just a lot of baggage going on there. So I, I love that, man. That, so take me through, if you don't mind, like how did you hire up so quick? Like hiring is, is really hard. How did you like hire up and screw up the team so quick? Yeah. Can you give some pointers there or just some color behind that? Yeah,

Daniel Snow (17:14):

So we had, you know, tons of recruiting agencies, tons of job postings all over the place, tons of word of mouth. Um, so we had a lot of inbound as well as, um, we also had a have, you know, haves that had, uh, a phenomenal training process for each one of our departments. So we were always very confident that we don't need to necessarily hire only people with experience. We're very confident in, in taking anyone that has, you know, the, the underlying skillset, not necessarily marketing, you know, at Facebook ads or creative, et cetera, cetera. But, um, a lot of the other kind of skill sets we look for that could potentially be a good team member. And we have a sort of really great process for training people up, getting them experience and being able to learn things the right way. So especially what we found is that a lot of other people in the workforce aren't taught the, the right way.

Daniel Snow (18:10):

You know, we've had some people we've hired six, eight years experience senior leadership and they don't really know what they're doing in a lot of ways. So, um, we always thought that that training up was, was, was, was predictable from what we find and, um, and scalable to an extent the, the hardest, hardest part we've got is when you're scaling up that fast, it's then harder to transition. You can teach the skills, but then you start needing more middle management and that's where you start getting a lot of, a lot of issues. Um, but yeah,

Rabah Rahil (18:43):

Yeah. I, I love that. And that's actually something we're kind of experienced here at triple whale where, um, like the more senior person you hire, the less managing you have to do, but obviously it's a bigger hit on the balance sheet, right. Because you're just gonna have to pay these people a lot more money. And so what we've found is kind of to your point, if you can identify certain proxies for potentiality or capability and then just skill that person up. Right, man, that, that is a really, I think that's kind of what you guys are talking about. That's a really viable process. And a lot of times you'll end up making like these people that are C players, a players, and you're getting 'em at a C player, maybe B player price, which is even better. Right. Cuz you're basically arbitraging. And so you're investing in them and then that investment manifests in value for your company. So I really love that idea. I just hate the idea of making all those SOPs that <laugh> could not have been fun. That's a huge lift, right?

Jonathan Snow (19:35):

Oh yeah.

Daniel Snow (19:36):

Great. Thankful it wasn't just us, you know, have, have great team members, great department heads that were able to, to take on a lot of that responsibility as well. That's what coach you said, goes into hiring great people. So yeah.

Rabah Rahil (19:48):

I love that you guys seem so chill about delegation. I'm an absolute control freak. Is that something you've learned or you guys have always been chill about like you have to be a control freak, Jonathan, like doctors, dentists, like you, you want to know every function. I, I control every, you know, uh, actor in the play. Like I know exactly what's going on. It's science, maybe it's science. Absolutely. When you get into these higher level, like CEO running your own agency roles, you have to delegate you, you just can't scale. Yeah. Um, how did you guys like you guys have this such happy go lucky, like yeah. We just hired out and we, you know, we scale it people. How did you attain that mindset? It's not very common, especially again in like entrepreneurs in those higher levels.

Jonathan Snow (20:25):

Yeah, no like, like Dan was saying, I think it's really important that we found the right middle management, you know, people that we knew we could finally hand things off to and trust that they knew exactly how me and Dan would think and then make sure that that message gets relayed. And the people that they bring on a train underneath them are being trained the same way that Dan and I would do it. So I think it took, took at least a year for us to get to that point. You know, we're just over two years old now as an agency, I would say in the first year, Dan and I were way more hands on, on the training process on the day to day functions on account management. Um, and once we were able to grow the team and had people that had been with us for, for years.

Jonathan Snow (21:04):

So actually most of our leaders here have actually been with us before the agency was the agency. They were with us when we were an e-commerce holding company. So they were actually the media buyers for us on our oh cool e-commerce brands from years prior. So they knew exactly how Dan and I do marketing. They know exactly e-commerce be best practices. And you know, they essentially were the first training class that Dan and I ever had. So after getting years of experience with like essentially one on one training from Dan and I, we were very comfortable handing off those reigns to them. That's to then train the next droves of people, especially in the past year,

Rabah Rahil (21:41):

Man. That is absolutely brilliant. I love

Jonathan Snow (21:43):

It. Like you said, like you're, you're investing. Like we invested Dan and I invested all of our time and energy into coaching these people and mentor and, and now it's paying the dividends because now Dan and I are able to step back a little, think more high level think strategically and really drive the direction of the company working on the business more so than in the business in

Rabah Rahil (22:02):

The, oh, I love that. Yeah. I use that line all the time. I think it's, there was um, uh, who's I talking to, I think it was Nick Shackleford. We were at a conference on time and he was like, Hey, that guy, he's a crusher, but he's a $3 million man. I was like, what does that mean? And he was like, oh, well, what it means is like, he's doing very well, but that's his ceiling because the system that that person was running was at this peak, like this is the ceiling there's no, the, the things that you were building are not scalable, you're doing great. And you can handle this runway, but you're only gonna, you're gonna cap out here. And so for you guys, you've just built this, this processy that just prints money and amazing employees. That's a, that's a really admirable thing. I love that. That's fantastic. All right. Let's round out the first segment with one last question. Um, I'll start with you, Jonathan, and then you Daniel, um, what's the nicest thing someone's ever done for you?

Jonathan Snow (22:51):

The nicest thing someone's ever done for me. Wow. I think you inviting me for this podcast now. Um, or you commenting on how nice my hair looked today. That was, that was a good, uh, the nicest thing anybody has ever done for me, I think, honestly, not to get too mushy, but I would say the faith that Dan put in me and kind of like investing in, in me long term, because it's not easy to have a business partner that has a different career, especially one that where I'm like a full-time dentist, but we had the trust that like the responsibilities that we agreed to, he trusted that they would get done. And I think I proved myself well there because literally in between every single patient for five years, I was working on the business with Dan. But anyways, like, you know, Dan always stayed fair to me and, you know, while he did try to have me drop out and not go to ortho residency, he was very patient. It did, did take five years from the time we started working together to the time where he actually had me full time, um, and never looked to, you know, seek other partners or, you know, try to treat me unfairly. I, I think just Dan putting that long term faith in me and like now it's paying its dividends as we're full time together as partners. I would probably say that as the number one thing.

Rabah Rahil (24:05):

Aw. All right. In the fields. All right, Dan, you can't say Jonathan, you have to, you have to gimme something else. So there's too much brother. We love going on here.

Jonathan Snow (24:12):

<laugh>

Daniel Snow (24:19):

This is such a tough question. The nicest thing anyone's ever done for me, um, I've been really even thinking about it. There's like hasn't been anything that really completely pops out at me. Like, was

Rabah Rahil (24:36):

There a particular person possibly that, you know, helped you along your journey that you were very thankful for?

Daniel Snow (24:44):

Um,

Daniel Snow (24:49):

I would say, I would say like what I, what I can say right now is another agency owner, um, Kevin Miller over at grow. Um, I would say use him and as a soundboard a lot over these last 12 months, you know, we, we both kind of launched at the same time, both launch our agencies around the same time. Um, and it's been really interesting to see that both grow simultaneously. So whenever I have questions about, um, really kind of intimate details about something that's sensitive, he's able to share that and we've, we've become really great friends in the process. Um, so both business and personal. So it's been kind of great using him as a, as a resource for a lot of things and, and vice versa. So

Rabah Rahil (25:36):

Love it. I love it. That's something I'm trying to get better at too, is finding kind of people either similar in this space or something where, um, either a men, I think mentorship can be, I think the most productive people have a me like a three tier mentorship where there's somebody like you're talking about that you can discuss at at the same level where you respect their opinion, they respect your opinion. I think scaling up people below you is fantastic as well. Cuz it brings you back to beginner's mind when you have all this expertise is really helpful to see the, the, the problem through that beginner mindset. Then I think there's somebody above you that you want to emulate. Right? And so I, I love that, man. That is a, a super strong,

Daniel Snow (26:12):

That's a really interesting kind of perspective you put out there on mentoring someone when you, you can, you can relate back to, I never, never thought about that way.

Rabah Rahil (26:23):

Yeah. Yeah. It's so it's always helpful because there's always imposter syndrome and always this. And so people having other people that have stripes or those same kind of challenges, but you can, you know, not only candidly talk to them, there's no political capital being used, right? Like if you're kind of internal or something, sometimes there's judgements or like RA didn't know what Mer was or there, there, you know, there's just kind of weird stuff like that, where, um, when you have that, you know, uh, respectful mentor connection with somebody on your level, there's a lot, uh, less judgment. And I think without judgment and without vulnerability, people will learn a lot faster and you internalize more effective lessons. All right, boys, you're into the value add segment. Now this is why people bought the ticket. Let's get nerdy on some agency stuff. Okay. So I'm gonna throw, throw you a, a softball here. What are the, the, and we'll start with you, Jonathan, then Daniel, you can gimme your take, what are the, uh, kind of best parts and then hardest parts of, uh, owning the agency or snow in specific

Jonathan Snow (27:18):

The best part by far owning an agency, I would say is our client success stories, you know, helping out clients at the end of the day, I'm I'm, I'm a doctor, I'm a medical provider. I like helping people, right? So seeing us grow and literally change the lives of some of our clients has been the most rewarding part of owning an agency or not. Um, you know, it's, it's a great business model owning an agency, but when you actually can change a client's life and see that translate and just see them grow and like almost being a mentor for them, because, you know, we're essentially coaching them along the way we're driving all the media strategies. It is, it's a beautiful thing and they're very thankful for it. So I would say easily that that's, that's the best part. The hardest part about owning an agency, especially when that's Fastly growing is growing pains in terms of human capital management.

Jonathan Snow (28:07):

Um, so at the size that we are at now, I would say the majority of my day is managing people. Um, talking to our head of people. We have a, you know, head of our human resources department. And I would say 80% of my brain power is going into, you know, dealing with, with, with human relations matters, um, nothing bad, but you know, there's always internal organizational politics or there's, you know, this person got an offer somewhere else to what do we want to do? Or this person's looking for a promotion or actually this person wants to go from being a Google marketer to a Facebook marketer. <laugh> this other person is burnt out for marketing. They want to do, uh, a copywriting role that doesn't exist. Can we carve something out for them? And all these things in problem solving all day definitely is energy draining, but well, worth it at the end of the day it's it's part of the business.

Rabah Rahil (28:57):

Yeah, definitely. It's a little bit different than the, the cavity in D six or whatever the, the classifications are <laugh>. Yeah. Oh, it's definitely, uh, and I've always found too that, uh, quite frankly, like humans are the most, um, cognitively expensive, uh, things to deal with, cuz everybody's so nuanced. Everybody has different communication styles. Like there's just certain things that, you know, you can approach some people with transparency, you could have to approach some people with a more fragile, um, you know, no judgment there. It's just, there's just a lot of nuance when you're involved with people. And um, yeah, I can, I can imagine that's a, a very unique, uh, interaction for you, especially coming from air force, uh, in a very rigorous kind of scientific background. There's sometimes not as much empathy in those fields as there needs to be in kind of DTC managing, uh, marketers.

Rabah Rahil (29:47):

But before I get to you, Daniel, I just wanna make one more point. What I think is so brilliant too, is like when you see that client grow, guess what they're growing a business that is then like actually employing other people. And so it's not only that person that you're helping, there's this really cool, like knock on effect of like this person's generating more capital that they can then go hire somebody. And that, that person now has a livelihood. And I, it sounds cheesy, but I, I don't know. I think it's really noble in that sense where you're really starting to grow the pie for other people and giving people other opportunities to level up. Um, and not only economically, but in terms of intellectually. So I love that Daniel. So what about you best parts and hardest parts of an agency?

Daniel Snow (30:23):

I would say the best part of an agency. I know what John already said, cause that is the most exciting part. Yeah. Yeah. Um, especially when, you know, over time, I would say in, in looking back, like I mentioned, we hire a lot of employees in the early stages of their career or their transitioning careers, et cetera. So being able to be an outlet for employees to grow professionally and personally is, has been really rewarding. You know, a lot of our department leaders like John mentioning were, you know, started as customer, you know, entry level, customer service or entry level marketing, whatever, and seeing them grow as people and managing tons of people and still remaining passionate about what they do is really rewarding to me. Um, I would say the most difficult thing about running an agency, especially a full service agent, you know, when you're dealing with one platform, I don't think it's much of this, but when you're full service such as us, you know, we have we're at departments on each platform, essentially creative studio retention, record cetera, et cetera.

Daniel Snow (31:22):

Uh, it just, especially with all these platform changes and whatnot. And like John mentioned, when you're throwing the human capital in it also, it definitely becomes a bit dizzy at times. Um, you know, having to deal with clients, still having to deal with people still, and everything's changing. There's so much going on when you're, when your agency starts scaling that, going back to what you said before, you can't have control over things, um, you have to delegate, there's no other way you need to be able to, to relinquish control and trust in your team, but still understanding and having good, good branch of what's going on at all times gets to be a lot. So

Rabah Rahil (31:58):

Yeah, no, I, I totally echo those sediments that's, uh, that, that can be definitely a challenge. Um, when you guys are building snow, what was the goal in mind or like, what is the goal in mind? Is it like an exit is an acquisition, is it just to keep the profitable bus business? Is there like, I guess just kind of to drill back up, ultimately like if somebody was starting a business, do they, or an agency, do they need to have like an end game in mind of like an exit, an acquisition keeping the business profitable or do you think it's just basically slap it together and then we kind of, we will hit these milestones and then figure out where we want to go or like, how did you, did you guys have like a goal in mind?

Daniel Snow (32:34):

Um, I wouldn't say you necessarily had a specific goal in mind. I think someone that I heard set it one time say really well, whereas like you don't build a company to sell, but you build a company that is attractive to, to, to sell. Um, I like that. Yeah.

Daniel Snow (32:49):

So it's not necessarily saying like we're gonna build it and then sell it. Like, ideally a lot of people want to do that, but, um, you know, when you build a good company and that is attractive, a lot of people will want, will be interested and come your way. So that's kind of the approach we've been taking instead of saying, you know, when they build this three year, three years and we're gonna sell it, et cetera, et cetera. Um, we're just trying to build the best company we can build and be a reputable company in the space while doing it. And when it's time to sell one day, you know, if, if, if that's the direction we choose, then if we build a great company, then, then, um, I'm sure there'll be a lot of people interested. So that's kind of like how, how I think about

Jonathan Snow (33:30):

It. Yeah. I would say like when we decided to go the route of, of direct to consumer agency, our main goal was that we wanted to be the best DTC agency in the world. I love that we wanna be the go to, we want, when people think of who do I need to go to, to grow my shop of my brand, the immediate reflex is the snow agency. We want it to be that go to DTC agency. That's still the goal right now. You know, quality is really everything to us. And I think that is, that has been one of the other biggest difficulties is with a growing team, maintaining quality as it was when we were a small boutique, uh, team of 10 people. Um, because that goal is still the same, the best DTC agency out there. So sometimes you have to think you don't wanna sacrifice quality for growth. Um, so toying with that balance is, is like one of our key focuses right now, especially for 2022.

Rabah Rahil (34:24):

Yeah. That's the age old dichotomy. And I love it. I think you guys are doing a fantastic job and I love the idea of just building value. That's a really focused kind of way to do it and, you know, whatever happens, happens, but control what we can control and we can control the, the value of the product and service that we're creating. And as long as we hit that, and we're kind of streamlined or not streamlining, but oriented to that, we're gonna be the best DTC agency. Um, that's a beautiful way to look at it, man. I love that. Um, let's see if you could start all over and I know you guys are fairly recent, but was there be anything that you would change? Was there any kind of look backs? We're like, oh man, that was a terrible idea.

Daniel Snow (35:05):

Um, I would say, uh, a big thing about that, a big mistake, the biggest mistake. And I think a lot of people make this mistake is hiring, compromising who you're hiring because of the urgency you need at the time of that. Yeah. Instead of letting the in, in the short term kind of dealing, you know, with difficulties of needing that specific person, but waiting time to hire a person. So me, every time we've done that, it's blown up in our face. Um, and every time we're almost there, um, I, I always try to remember that. So, um, that, that's, that's been a huge, huge mistake I've been in the past.

Rabah Rahil (35:54):

Yeah. I love that one. Jonathan, you got anything?

Jonathan Snow (35:58):

Um, I would say the one thing that Dan and I have probably falter the most on is trying to do too many things simultaneously, Dan and I are very growth driven. We just want urgency progress. We have so many big ideas, but sometimes it be better to roll them out in phases or not. Star's all ideas at the same time, cuz it could overwhelm the team. You know, Dan and I have high expectations, high goals and aspirations and amazing ideas. And sometimes it can be overwhelming for our team to kind of take all these big ideas and bring them to life simultaneously while doing, uh, wearing a million other hats. So I would say getting that perspective, uh, I think Dan and I have started to be more careful about the ideas we take on or the ideas that people bring us or opportunities and being comfortable saying no to certain things of just simple bandwidth doesn't exist and you know, not wanting to stress the system in our company.

Rabah Rahil (36:55):

Oh, I, I love that man. And it almost kind of goes back to the dichotomy that you're mentioning previously of, you know, quality and growth where it's like, what's that balance of like, what are we gonna take on? What are we not? And then at what cost. Right. And that, I think that's what people don't realize is that, um, ultimately when you get into this, like the roles that you guys are in, basically you're just consistently making trade offs, like, okay, this is a better trade off than that. There's no like free lunch, kind of the tens stoppel economics term. Like once you're in that, like something's gonna come from somewhere like you're Robin paid to Peter to pay Paul kind of stuff. And until you can shift in that kind of trade off, you get into kind of what you're talking about, Jonathan, where we can just do it, we can just do it.

Rabah Rahil (37:32):

And then you end up working 12 hour days, 14 hour days. And then there's a certain point where it's like, yeah, you're doing it, but this isn't sustainable. You know what I mean? You're gonna burn out. And then what I've seen a lot of times too, is like high performers are like this almost like carbon fiber. Like you don't know when they're gonna break and then you add one more task and they're instantly useless where they're, they're just overwhelmed and they're paralyzed now. And like you get zero productivity out of them versus, Hey, at least you're getting 80 or 90% out of them. And then you layer on this one little thing and they're like, I, I just, and then they just, it just stops. 'em in their tracks. And I've, that's a really, uh, really important point for people. I, I think that's one of the biggest kind of pitfalls in my opinion, that I've seen where we can even at triple well, we've had that where we had to ratchet back where it's like, Hey, we're doing amazing work here, but the team's not gonna make it. You can't like, it's not a sprint. If it's two and a half months per perpetual, right? Like that's by definition, not a sprint man. We're almost working a quarter, you know, 12, 14 hour days. And you know, early stage startup, it gets a little different cuz there's, you know, some equity on the back end or stuff. But even then it's just, it's not, not tenable.

Jonathan Snow (38:33):

Yeah.

Rabah Rahil (38:34):

All right, boys, you made it put on your armor. So now it's time for rapid fire. So we'll start with Jonathan and then we'll go Daniel, um, for your answers. And then if you want to pontificate or elaborate, feel free. Okay. You guys ready?

Jonathan Snow (38:47):

Let's do it.

Rabah Rahil (38:48):

BU B bum. Okay. Jonathan, starting with you paid media overrated, underrated,

Jonathan Snow (38:52):

Underrated.

Rabah Rahil (38:54):

Ooh. I love it. Daniel

Daniel Snow (38:56):

Underrated. You have, you have to do it. If you doing anything online, need, need be media.

Rabah Rahil (39:02):

I love it. An agency overrated, underrated,

Jonathan Snow (39:05):

Underrated big time. Ooh. I would say agencies have a stigma because not all agencies out there. I would say most out there aren't the best. You know, they didn't come from the brand side. They don't know what it's like to launch scale, maintain Shopify brands, especially, you know, while doing it profitably. But a lot of brands do not realize that hiring an agency, especially the right agency is far cheaper than building your own internal media buying team. And a lot of brand owners are either great product people or they're, you know, they're influencers or have a big following. They're not marketers. If you're a brand owner and you're not a marketing expert and you don't know how to manage an internal media buying team, you're not gonna know if your team is doing a good job, bad job. You won't even know what to look at. You're just taking their word for face value. Unfortunately, most media buyers out there on the market are not great. So you could be doing, you're gonna be paying more internally. I have to pay this person's benefits. Now you have to figure out how to train them. And now you have to turn them out. Once you realize they're losing you, money going with an agency is I think is lower risk and lower, lower expense as well.

Rabah Rahil (40:17):

Yeah. I love that. And if I could just pile on before your answer, uh, Daniel, I think I, I call it the, uh, two virgins problem, right? Where they're like trying to put it in each other's ears where it's like neither the brand owner nor the media buyer knows what they're doing. And so there's just like this, this really awkward period of like, how does this actually work? Um, and the other thing that I think what you get with an agency, which is great, uh, especially kind of one of your caliber is you basically plug in and can run. Like when you hire somebody, man, eventually you're gonna manage 'em you're gonna have to tell them what the KPI like. There's all these interfacing that you do with an agency is basically like, here's a bunch of money. Here's how much you can spend. Here's the efficiency targets go. You know what I mean? Like I don't need to think about anything like good go. And so I think that's something that is, um, really helpful with agencies, especially like a full stack, one like yours, where it's basically just plug in and now I have a marketing ecosystem versus having to hire channel experts or having to hire a senior media buyer. And then that CME buyer is gonna actually get burnt out cuz they can't sit across all the channels. So now you're hiring. I mean it just starts to spin outta

Jonathan Snow (41:16):

Control. Can't do creative ideation, creative editing. They can't build landing pages. They don't have coding or design skills. So now next thing you know, to run Facebook ads, you need five people in house and they gotta figure it out together on the fly and

Rabah Rahil (41:32):

Couldn't agree more. Yep. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Daniel agency, overrated, underrated,

Daniel Snow (41:38):

Underrated. You guys have it all for me.

Rabah Rahil (41:42):

These are all three and underrated. Oh my gosh. All right. Coming in hot SMS marketing underrated overrated

Jonathan Snow (41:47):

Way underrated.

Rabah Rahil (41:48):

Oh, another underrated. Tell Don

Jonathan Snow (41:51):

SMS marketing. If you are a brand, especially in the post iOS 14, the whole IDFA world, and you're not doing a full stack retention marketing. That means email and SMS potentially even push notifications. You're leaving money on the table cuz you can't rely on that first purchase anymore. Attribution and tracking and optimization of ads is not what it was a year ago. So what's the cheapest way to get a sale is to reengage that customer list that you already have. And if you're a brand without a big email list or SMS list, maybe you don't, you know, run campaigns, but at least set up automated flows, collect those phone numbers so that once it's ready to start milking that list, that's the highest ROI, SMS, easy.

Rabah Rahil (42:32):

I love it. Daniel,

Daniel Snow (42:34):

I would say underrated. And uh, sometimes that job covered most of it, but I would say in general, just retention marketing, and obviously SS is part of that. Yeah. And retention of customers and building the best customer lifetime value as you can is just the, if, if you're not investing a lot into that and you're, you don't have a large percentage of customers returning, then it's gonna be really hard to, to, to own a sustainable brand in today's day and age online. So S

Rabah Rahil (43:04):

A great way of

Daniel Snow (43:04):

Treating that.

Rabah Rahil (43:05):

Yeah. I love that. And I would even say more so too, like all these pieces of the marketing ecosystem make your paid even better, right? Yeah. So now you can just scale your paid up even more because you're getting money, maybe not on the first touchpoint, but you're getting them in the funnel. And then that SMS is closing, which is way cheaper than showing them a paid ad. I love it. Okay. Miami overrated, underrated.

Daniel Snow (43:26):

I guess I can go. John's taking it all first. I believe not leaving much, definitely underrated. I don't think there's any, any better place in the country to live right now. Way more upside the downside. I don't even know what the downside is. So

Rabah Rahil (43:41):

Damnit four underrated in a row. I think that's a record and that's actually eight because it's across two. Yeah. Amazing, amazing. We're setting records here. Okay. Uh, whitening, toothpaste, overrated, underrated. And this is coming from a dentist. So listen up people.

Jonathan Snow (43:55):

Ooh. Whitening toothpaste. I would say, I'd say it is, it is probably right in the middle. I would say it could be accurately rated toothpaste works phenomenally. Well. Um, that's great for maintenance. I mean, if you're looking for like the whitest brightest smile whitening toothpaste, ain't gonna cut it. You need professional whitening at your dentist or, you know, there are some at home whitening kits, be very careful which ones you get. Um, but there are, have home whitening kits that will do the job, get your whitest bread of smile. And then the whitening toothpaste is great for maintaining it. So if you're looking to get that whitest, brightest, don't rely on that toothpaste. It's not gonna work magic overnight.

Rabah Rahil (44:33):

I can just, I can just imagine you in your white overcoat. That was so, so lovely. I love it. Yeah. Um, so accurately rated from Jonathan. What about you Daniel? Overrated. Underrated? Um,

Daniel Snow (44:45):

I would say

Rabah Rahil (44:45):

The lay person's view,

Daniel Snow (44:47):

Switch it up and also whitening toothpaste. I feel I always used it, but it's like, I feel like it's like never solely baked my teeth white, you know? Oh, wow. Like when I use whitening strips, that's what made my teeth white, but like just using whitening teeth, uh, toothpaste just really never did much for me.

Rabah Rahil (45:04):

Love it. You, you guys are in too much alignment. We need more heat between you two. We need more heat. All right. Let's see if we can generate some heat crypto overrated, underrated

Jonathan Snow (45:12):

Way overrated.

Rabah Rahil (45:13):

Finally, I got one outta you. Jonathan Daniel.

Daniel Snow (45:20):

<laugh> I'm also gonna have to go with, I'm gonna have to definitely go with overrated too

Rabah Rahil (45:26):

Overrated too. All right. All in Miami, you guys can hold that view. There's a, there's a lot of crypto maxes down there. A lot of crypto maxes.

Jonathan Snow (45:35):

We're gonna get some Miami Twitter. Now, after that answer, we're gonna be like excommunicated from like the tech startup scene in Miami

Rabah Rahil (45:40):

Now hundred,

Jonathan Snow (45:42):

Uh, I would say stock market any day over crypto, especially if you're an early investor, uh, you, you gotta go in the stock market before you get into crypto.

Rabah Rahil (45:50):

I'm I'm with you there. But man, my, my portfolio has been taking a haircut of late don't look, don't look at the app. Turn that, delete that fidelity app. Um, Rutgers football, overrated, underrated.

Jonathan Snow (46:02):

Well, I don't even

Daniel Snow (46:03):

Know how to get that. Are they, are they good this year?

Jonathan Snow (46:07):

No, they're never good. So, I mean, it's impossible for them to be overrated. Cause they're waiting is like

Rabah Rahil (46:13):

It's it's already at the bottom. So there's only a yeah,

Jonathan Snow (46:16):

Exactly.

Rabah Rahil (46:17):

<laugh> well, you guys had a little bit of a run a few years ago, right? Like it was something, there was, there was a little spike of success, right? Oh yeah. The, oh yeah. Yeah. Little

Jonathan Snow (46:28):

Rice was there. Yep.

Rabah Rahil (46:30):

Oh, cool. Um, what gave you guys more gray hair? Snow or kindred?

Daniel Snow (46:35):

Ooh, definitely snow.

Rabah Rahil (46:37):

Snow. What about you, Jonathan?

Daniel Snow (46:40):

There's just a lot more, more things going on.

Jonathan Snow (46:43):

Yeah, I would, I would also say snow. I would say they both give us a lot of gray hairs just cause we're extremely passionate and we have like very high expectations for everything we do. Um, kindred to be of a phenomenal team that, you know, they're the creative experts. Dan and I are, are like marketers at heart. That's our like true expertise. We're lucky that we can lean on, on our kindred team to execute the highest level of work, uh, without Dan and I getting involved. So actually I, I would say snow gives us more white hairs for that reason.

Rabah Rahil (47:15):

I love it. Um, okay. Favorite meal and why we'll start with you. Jonathan.

Jonathan Snow (47:20):

Favorite meal is definitely chicken penne vodka. That's like my

Rabah Rahil (47:24):

Comfort Italian guy. Oh yeah. I like it.

Jonathan Snow (47:26):

Yep. That's like my cheat meal whenever I try to, to keep healthy at least Monday to Friday, but when I'm looking to just go all out and a vodka time,

Rabah Rahil (47:34):

Let's ride the lightning. What about you? Daniel?

Daniel Snow (47:37):

I'd have to go with some surf and tur some loud surfaces really make sure there's mushroom plenty at ton of mushrooms on a, on the plate.

Rabah Rahil (47:44):

All all right. Yeah. I guess you've been on the coast your whole life pretty much, cuz you're just, just went south. Right? So you've been pretty much ocean. Yeah. I love it. Um, what is your favorite in-person marketing event?

Daniel Snow (48:00):

I would say, um,

Daniel Snow (48:03):

I, I I've, I've always had a great time at the geek out events. Yeah. They do a really, a really good job of curating the crowd and always brings really high quality operators. Um, I think in general, the events, the, the speech, the speeches themselves, I find it's always hard to get substance from that. Not just like in geek out, but just like events in general, you know, I've seen Jeff Bezos speak and this it's always hard to, I find to get, get, to get actionable takeaways from because you, they have to generalize, but the best conferences for me is where I know I can go meet new people, make new connections and learn during where I have those conversations in the process. So, um, it's great. Great, great for performance marketing.

Jonathan Snow (48:50):

The best event that that I've been to is actually with Dan this year, a few months ago, attentive mobile, hosted a retreat for brand owners and yeah. Brand owners, operators, tech partners, and it was a retreat in Sedona, Arizona. It was gorgeous with the red rocks and the background. We had all these breakout events and like networking opportunities and open bars and phenomenal food. And they put us up in a hotel for gorgeous hotel, like resort for two nights and just built relationships with all these, you know, big names in the space. It was exciting and hearing all the insights and strategies they were employing on their own brands. It was just a great overall like learning experience, meeting new people in the industry. And it was awesome. Like, you know, the spotlight retreat being in the, the vortex energy of Sedona was awesome.

Rabah Rahil (49:35):

It's true, man. Uh, I'm actually from, uh, I was born in Tucson, so I'm familiar with Sedona. It is a really, it's a special place out there, man. It's a really, uh, not only just, uh, yeah, if you're into that hippie dippy stuff, man, there's something that you feel out there. It's a it's it's real. Yeah. Um, I love that. So shout out, Shaq, get, get high geek out. We're actually triple well sponsoring him this year. Uh, we'll be at Dubai and all the events, but yeah, we, we founded a really, really awesome one, but that attentive sounds, it sounds really interesting. We might actually do that little triple

Daniel Snow (50:03):

Thing, thinking about that attentive one, because that was like a smaller private one sort of thing, you know,

Rabah Rahil (50:09):

That was

Daniel Snow (50:10):

Mind blowing

Rabah Rahil (50:10):

And the ambiance. Yeah,

Daniel Snow (50:12):

The, oh, I was on the real,

Rabah Rahil (50:13):

The vibe is Sedonas chill. It's a really cool one. Okay. A few more for you. Favorite, favorite place travel to and why Jonathan? And then we'll get you Daniel.

Jonathan Snow (50:22):

My favorite place to travel is Israel. Uh, I'm a little biased cause my parents are Israeli. All our family lives yeah. Live in Israel, but it actually like Tel Aviv. It reminds me of Miami. So I love Israel. It's tiny country smaller than New Jersey. And there is just so much history, so much sight seeing so much, you know, sun to take in and beautiful beaches. But then the nightlife is phenomenal. The food is a plus. People are beautiful there. I mean, there's, it's like paradise. There's, you know, it's easy to see why such a small piece of land is constantly, you know, people are fighting over it. Um, yeah, it's just, it's my favorite place to visit.

Rabah Rahil (50:58):

Well, and you're also seeing kind of a resurgence of a lot of people moving back, right. Or, I mean high intellectual talent. So you're just talking about you see ways coming out of there. There's a really big concentration of some intellectual fire power. It's almost like a Silicon valley, the middle east. Like there is some real big, uh, intellectual juggernauts and strong companies, uh, coming outta Israel. That's a, that's a really cool pick yeah.

Jonathan Snow (51:19):

Talent. Phenomenal. We actually have a media buying team that we're built in Israel right now.

Rabah Rahil (51:23):

Yeah. That's a, our, our dev team's actually all outta Jerusalem as well.

Jonathan Snow (51:27):

Awesome.

Rabah Rahil (51:28):

Yeah. What

Daniel Snow (51:28):

About you dinner? I would say I, I loved Hawaii when I was there. That the combination they have of, of land and sea is incredible. Like you mentioned California, like they have the mountains. Hawaii has the volcanoes. You can climb up the activities you do with the ocean are incredible. Um, and just other, you know, the food is great. Culture's great. Awesome vibes. Some of the most magnific sunsets ever seen. So love being over there.

Rabah Rahil (51:55):

Where'd you go? Exactly. I just, uh, came back or went to Kauai last year.

Daniel Snow (52:00):

I was in north shore.

Rabah Rahil (52:01):

Oh, cool. Beautiful. Yeah, man. Uh, I couldn't agree more, but there's two things. Hawaii was definitely stereotypical. It was absolutely beautiful and absolutely expensive. <laugh> it? I bought a little, I bought a small car out there taking me and my fiance for a week, but that's not here nor there. It is a beautiful place to travel to a hundred percent. Um, what's the favorite way to you like to spend your time? Jonathan

Jonathan Snow (52:25):

Watching Sunday football. That's like my day to myself. It's literally from 1:00 PM till midnight. I'm binging games all day. I'm big into fantasy. I like placing some wagers on NFL games. That's so hard. Hey. Yeah. That's my guilty pleasure is NFL Sunday. Everyone knows including my wife do not bother me or make plans for me on NFL Sunday.

Rabah Rahil (52:46):

This is Jay time. Yeah. What, uh, giants, jets, giants. Some other team giants.

Jonathan Snow (52:52):

I giants fans.

Rabah Rahil (52:53):

All right. Let's go

Jonathan Snow (52:54):

Hard to be a giants fan in the past decade, but at least we won a couple super bowls. I never thought I witnessed one. So

Rabah Rahil (53:00):

Hey, Hey, I, I, uh, co-opted the cowboy since I've been living in Austin for so long, so I can definitely empathize where I think they haven't done anything since the nineties. So it's, it's one of those weird teams that like just has this fanatical following. They're always good, but they never win. Yeah. It's just this really odd, like very unique mix, but yeah, I think the Jeep man, let's go. What about you, Daniel?

Daniel Snow (53:22):

Uh, I would say outside of when I, you know, working out fitness related things like got to triathlon to here cycling outside of that just on weekends, but I, I just really enjoy hanging out with friends, you know, just doing activity, you know, whether it's in the water being on boat down here, Miami's also like that early into wake surfing. That's been super following. How do that? Um, or just enjoying the nightlife and restaurant scene down here has been, has been really fun the past years with friends. So yeah,

Rabah Rahil (53:55):

I love it. All right, boys. The last question and we'll wrap up, uh, what's your favorite follows on Twitter

Jonathan Snow (54:03):

And you can get started with that. I mean, I have a whole list of good people.

Daniel Snow (54:07):

I would say the lately the, the, my favorite person lately has been, um, what is his name? The, uh,

Jonathan Snow (54:16):

I think you just featured my favorite lately and that's Cody. Cody's been putting out

Rabah Rahil (54:20):

Cody Parker. Yes, he's fantastic. Cody's

Jonathan Snow (54:23):

Been putting out some phenomenal insights. I, you know, I'm usually very critical of certain perspectives or, you know, overstatements of things. I think he's in line with who's

Daniel Snow (54:34):

That

Jonathan Snow (54:35):

My fault?

Rabah Rahil (54:36):

Uh,

Jonathan Snow (54:37):

C D Y

Rabah Rahil (54:38):

He is a Jersey guy. You're absolutely right. There's

Jonathan Snow (54:41):

Jersey. He's a Jersey guy.

Daniel Snow (54:44):

Mine is, uh, Ryan Brelo he's he's been putting it together. Some, some really

Rabah Rahil (54:49):

Oh, cool. Interesting. What's that handle? I have to follow him.

Daniel Snow (54:52):

I think it's just Ryan. Breslo he's the, the founder of gold.

Rabah Rahil (54:54):

Oh, perfect. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He just threw some heat out, I think the other day, right? Or a big mega thread. Yeah.

Daniel Snow (55:01):

Uh, yeah, about like him, my bosses of Silicon come valley.

Rabah Rahil (55:06):

So shadow Ryan,

Daniel Snow (55:08):

But he is always putting us together really, really good threads general of business, stuff like that. Um, so yeah.

Rabah Rahil (55:16):

Wonderful. Well, I should have known the Jersey boys were gonna get through the rapid fire unscathed. You guys made it. Um, this is your chance to plug anything. How can people get involved in the snow agency or how can they get involved in kindred or, um, let the people know?

Daniel Snow (55:31):

Um, yeah, if you want to get, if you wanna reach out to us, my email, dan@thesnowagency.com on Twitter item, Dan snow. Um, so that's on Instagram at the snow agency. So three ways to, to contact

Jonathan Snow (55:47):

Be beautiful. So for me, John Snow agency.com on Twitter, I, you know, I try to stay active as much as possible connect with me there, follow me. Uh, and, uh, I'm at, at Dr. Jonathan Snow. And yeah, I mean, if you're looking at for some media buying and content creation, even if you just wanna wanna chat through anything, reach out to us, figured we could join as a client of the snow agency, or we just be, you know, friends and colleagues and, and build this DTC thing and actually go to the moon on like the stock market.

Rabah Rahil (56:17):

Let's go, baby, let's go, Daniel, Jonathan, you guys are gems of a human. Thank you so much for, for joining us on the 18th episode of you are not your Roaz. If you do wanna get more involved with triple well, we are tri triple well.com. You can sign up right there. And then we have a fantastic newsletter called whale mail that goes out every Tuesday, Thursday. It is on our Twitter page to subscribe at tri triple. Well again, gentlemen, thank you so much for the time you guys are crushers. If you're ever in Austin, gimme a shout. And then that's all we got folks, episode 18 in the books. We'll see you all on the flip. Thanks.

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