How To Effectively Use UGC

December 1, 2022


Hosted By

Rabah Rahil
CMO at Triple Whale


Social Savannah
TikTok Ad Creative Producer & Media Buying Expert

Episode Description

In this episode of ROAS, we go over the importance of UGC with Savanna Sanchez and where the current landscape of media buying is going #ROAS

Notes & Links

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Follow the people featured in this episode here:

- Rabah's Twitter: https://twitter.com/rabahrahil
- Savannah's Twitter: https://twitter.com/social_savannah
- Savannah's TikTok Ads Course: https://thesocialsavannah.podia.com/t...


Social Savannah (00:00):

These are very thought out, very like scripted, briefed, every single shot, everything in the storyboard is like pre-planned. And then we go and get the content and edit it in the way to match that storyboard that we planned out. This is not just like, oh, like she's cute. I'm gonna ship her some products and what she comes back with.

Rabah Rahil (00:30):

All right, folks, I'm back from a journey overseas. I was in Dubai, Israel, and I come back to a treat the UGC queen, Savannah Sanchez. How are you?

Social Savannah (00:40):

Hey, Rob. I'm doing great. How are you doing?

Rabah Rahil (00:43):

I am fantastic. I'm back at my home base, the marketing HQ here in Austin. Where does this podcast find you today?

Social Savannah (00:50):

I'm in Las Vegas, Nevada. My home based.

Rabah Rahil (00:53):

Yeah. And we actually were just talking offline because I have so many things in my head. My notes actually said you're in California. And now you're in Nevada. What made you move from California to, uh, Las Vegas?

Social Savannah (01:06):

I mean, I, I love the heat. Uh, no state income taxes.

Rabah Rahil (01:09):

There we go.

Social Savannah (01:10):

Cheaper cost of living. If you can survive without the beach, which I do miss the beach, then it's, it's so much better than California in my opinion. Not as much traffic. So I, I love living in Vegas so much fun.

Rabah Rahil (01:24):

That is amazing. Whereabouts like, are you far, you're not obviously on the strip, right? You're away from the strip.

Social Savannah (01:30):

Yeah. I'm about 15 minutes out in Henderson if you're familiar.

Rabah Rahil (01:33):

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, I think Alex hon actually lives out there famous climber. Um, oh, do you ever go to the strip?

Social Savannah (01:42):

Yes. Um, usually when people are in town, I'm also a big like Vegas golden nights fan for hockey. So I go to the strip.

Rabah Rahil (01:50):

Yeah. You guys do have a hockey team. That's fun. You were pretty good too, right? Like won a championship or something like that of, of late right. Or pretty

Social Savannah (01:59):

Good. The first year we were in the Stanley cup. Final, but lost that's right. We've been pretty decent ever since. So fingers

Rabah Rahil (02:06):

The, of a hockey team in the desert.

Social Savannah (02:08):

<laugh> yeah, exactly. It's like, where is all these players coming from? Clearly, not from Vegas, but, um, but yeah, it's so much fun to go and watch. It's. My favorite thing to do on the weekends is go on the night games.

Rabah Rahil (02:19):

How fun? Yeah. I'm a big soccer guy, but soccer is basically, or hockey's kind of like soccer on ISA. I can totally get into that. There you go. So you're pretty young and you're kind of at the peak of your like, industry, how did you get started? Like how did you get into e-comm?

Social Savannah (02:37):

Well, thanks for that. Yeah. I'm 26 years old. I started working in like social media, digital marketing back in college. I would do internships around like Instagram pages, Facebook pages back then it was all about like page growth, like how to get more Instagram followers. And I would work with brands and just be posting on their Instagram. I was kind of like their, um, their Instagram community manager. And like, so I started doing that and I loved working with social media and this was kind of back then when Instagram was a lot easier to go viral and to get a lot of followers pretty quickly. This was back in like 2014. So, um, so I did, I knew I wanted to work in social media. I actually went off to get my MBA after I graduated with my marketing degree. Um, cuz I wanted to become a data scientist.

Social Savannah (03:27):

Like I'm, I really love math and um, and working with numbers and I, but I loved marketing as well. So I always thought like I would love to be in a job where I could be on the numbers side of marketing, like be in Excel. Um, so I went to get my MBA in, um, marketing data science, which I did. And right after that I actually got a job, um, through one of the connections at my college introduced me to a marketing agency called common thread collective in orange county. And they were hiring for media buyers and media buying was really like a perfect passion of what I loved because, uh, I loved working with numbers. Like I said, liked finding like trends in the data like CPC, CPMs, like what equates to the best ROAS. So I loved it so much. And when I started as a media buyer, I really found that my passion was also the creative side because I loved analyzed analyzing the videos of like, okay, where are people watching in the video?

Social Savannah (04:19):

Where are they dropping off? Why does this video have a higher ROS than this video? So I found that so interesting, just like the, the analytical side of looking at a video of like, why is this one more thumb stopping than the other? So it's kind of like that perfect blend between like art and science. Yeah. So really just loved that. And I worked at that agency for over two years. I kind of climbed my way from like a media buyer to like the manager, the media buyers. Um, for some reason I was a really good media buyer. Um, so they had me train all the other media buyers and I kind of had like my own little media buying department, um, where I would just teach all the Facebook media buyers what to do even though back then when this was like in 2018, I think I was a little bit ahead of the curve in terms of, I was really just preaching about like simplicity.

Social Savannah (05:08):

Like let's not have a million campaigns, Don, a million ad sets. Um, cuz back then it was all about like people would have like hundreds of Facebook ad campaigns and ads. It was a nightmare. And I was like this nightmare, this like right when campaign budget optimization came out and I was like, Hey, like at the agency let's just like consolidate our ad accounts. Let's make it as simple as possible. So that was kind of, my job was to like help like simplify the ad accounts, come up with like a repeatable process for trading new media buyers and really what it all came back to was like, how can we simplify the ad account so that we spend less time like tinkering in the ad accounts, making these like little changes that I thought weren't even really moving the needle and focusing on what's important, which was really important was the creative aspect.

Social Savannah (05:52):

Now with iOS 14 and all that crap creative is even way more important than it was four years ago when I started thinking about this stuff. And when I left the agency to become a freelancer because I really wanted to work with clients again, I wasn't really about the agency life, um, about just like managing people and all the agency drama and hiccups that go on with that. It was such a great learning experience, but it was always my dream to work directly with clients and kind of have my own business be my own freelancer. So that's what I did in December of, um, 2019. I was just like I left, started the social Savannah and my services that I offered was I was basically a freelance media buyer for hire for Facebook, Google, Snapchat, Pinterest, and also a U GC creator. Um, so back at the agency, I would always be creating videos and U GC, um, which is user generated content for anyone who doesn't know what that is, um, for the agency clients.

Social Savannah (06:46):

But I loved being on camera. I loved like editing videos on my phone. So that was another service I started when I started as a freelancer was, um, making the UGC videos. And what's interesting now, now pretty much my only service I offer, I do do subm media buying, but the majority is like creating the videos, doing UDC, really thinking about the creative strategy because that's what's most important right now. It's not really about media buying tactics. It all comes back to having good creatives and then helping clients explore new platforms like TikTok and such. So, and it was a super long answer to your short question, but that's how I got started with, um, all this e-com step and that's how I'm where I am today.

Rabah Rahil (07:29):

Wow. That's super fascinating. I think it's so cool too as well. Cuz you're a little bit of an odd bird to be kind of a quant where you are into the numbers, but you also have this creative head and usually you have two separate people for that. It's very, very unique to find somebody that is into the numbers, but can also understand kind of what drives valuable creatives. Um, that's so interesting. The, yeah, that's fascinating. And so what kind of resources or frameworks or how, how did you kind of gain this mastery? So you, you got a little bit of too Delion CTC, but ultimately that was more so on the media buying side, how did you become such an astute creative where you were able to understand what drives, what you understand hooks like your tweets are always so incredible where you're just breaking things down into almost like an anatomy it's, it's almost like formulaic for you, which is, is really almost counterintuitive when you think of creative. Cause you think of like this ethereal like, oh, I just had this epiphany in the shower. I should go make this thing. And like you've brought such a and, and, and I don't mean formulaic in a pejorative sense. I mean, it's, it's like something to Marvel out to take something so nebulous into something that you can replicate, but that replication doesn't seem like it's iterative. If that makes any sense.

Social Savannah (08:46):

Yeah. A hundred percent. I agree with you. It is. It does. It does kind of all boil down to like add formulas. Like I have a list of like 30 formulas of different hooks that I use across a lot of clients. Like the hook things TikTok you buy or doing an unboxing video or starting with like a weird oddly satisfying hook and then going to testimonial. So it really does come down to formulas. And I think where I learned this and I, that's why I always recommend people are interested in, um, getting into this space. I think starting at an agency really does give you such a great perspective because out of nowhere I had access to like a hundred different ad accounts where I can go in, I can see their best videos. I can see what, what ads are working, what ads are not.

Social Savannah (09:29):

And especially at an agency that works with larger clients, these are ads that have like millions of dollars of budget behind them. So you can say with a lot of statistical significance, like, okay, this ad performs better than this one. And then you can kind of get into the creative brainstorming of, I think this is why. And so really my process still kind of goes back to the agency. I'm looking at, um, at, uh, accounts because I, I still have a media buyer and I still have a lot of access to a lot of ad accounts from the clients that I work with, um, on both media buying and creatives. And I'm always in accounts looking at, okay, what are the top ads? And what do I think is the reason why it's a top ad and how can I apply this to another client?

Social Savannah (10:06):

So maybe it is the first frame, like the first three seconds is an unboxing. And then the last 12 seconds is someone talking to the camera, the testimonial. And if I see that's the best performing ad in one account, I instantly think how, let me try doing this for another product and another product. And if you test it on a few and you see, okay, it's, it's working across multiple products, this is the format that's working. Then you can kind of consider that a winning format that you can replicate across, um, any brand. And so that's why I've with my tweets. I'm always tweeting out, but what's working for me like, um, like different hooks that I'm testing things that I'm seeing working intro lines. Um, because I, I really believe that, um, like the information is for everyone and like, I, I've learned so much from the amazing community on Twitter and other mentors who have helped me.

Social Savannah (10:55):

I've kind of feel like it's my way of giving back. And it also brings me so much joy when someone comes back and they're like, oh, I tried your ad hook and it's working for me too. And it also further validates up, okay, it's working for my clients. I try to you now, all these random people on Twitter have also tried it and they're sharing with me that it worked or it didn't. So it's, it's so cool that like the Twitter community is so collaborative and I love just sharing. What's working and I'm so proud of the ads that me and my team are working on. So every day I have like 10 ads I wanna share, even though I always end up sharing like one or two, but we're just doing so many cool ads that it's hard not to share it with everybody just come so proud of them.

Rabah Rahil (11:33):

Yeah. I love them. They, um, one of my favorites was the, uh, the reverse intro thing where you just reverse intro and it's just like, oh my gosh, this is, this is so why didn't I think this is so brilliant. I love it. It's so hooky it's so eye catchy. Um, okay. One last question. And we'll wrap up the main segment. What advice would you give to, uh, well, I guess you just did that. You joined agency.

Social Savannah (11:55):

I have more advice. <laugh>

Rabah Rahil (11:56):

Okay. Yeah. What, what, what would be, uh, outside of being able to, uh, get onto an agency? What advice would you give to kind of aspiring creatives or, uh, media buyers that you wish you received?

Social Savannah (12:09):

Yeah, I would say don't reinvent the wheel and I honestly, I'm not that I don't think of myself as a very creative person. What I'm really good at is identifying a good creative, like if I watch an ad, I can instantly say, oh, that's a good ad or, oh, that's a shit ad. And so I'm actually really like, I have a team that's like a creative team that, um, films, the content edits it and they're like the creative masterminds. And they really have like that creative gene, but not, you don't need to have that creative gene to be good to add creatives. I think it's just a like flexing that muscle of figuring out what's a good ad. What's a bad ad and why. And so I do a ton of research, like going through ad libraries of top brands. So if you're thinking about getting into creatives or media buying, just think of the top 10 brands that you know of and go to their ad libraries and start taking notes of what hooks are they using, why are, why do they think that they're running this ad?

Social Savannah (13:03):

Um, like what's the length of it? What's the pacing. As someone talking to the camera, product shots, it's really become a student of these brands. And also just keep consuming on the platform. Like I always, I have so many Facebook ADSD save so many Instagram ads save so that I can continue this data set of like, okay, these brands are doing this now I'm gonna reiterate off of it. So when, I mean, don't reinvent the wheel, like I'm not just pondering in bed, like thinking of different ad ideas. <laugh> like I said, I'm not that creative by can identify a good ad. And I'm like, okay, if, if this big brand is running this ad and this ad is a million views, like clearly something's working. So I need to try to figure out why it's working and how I can apply that to my brand. So that's what I, I would advise to any creative or media buyer.

Rabah Rahil (13:49):

Oh, I love that. And then Facebook ads library for people that don't know is a, is a great resource. And then as well, shout out to, uh, actually our, uh, head designer here. There's a little, uh, Chrome extension called Addison. And he has a little thing where you can actually save the, uh, Facebook or Instagram ads and little boards and stuff. So, uh, even easier to curate. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll send you a link. We'll get your free trial. He's the very

Social Savannah (14:12):

Cool. Thank you.

Rabah Rahil (14:13):

Um, that's brilliant, Savannah. How cool. I love it. Love, love it. You made to this value add segment already. Time is fine. I can't believe time flies when you have fun. Um, alright. This is why people bought the ticket. We're gonna get a little nerdy. Um, what are the best parts and hardest parts of running TikTok ads?

Social Savannah (14:30):

Ooh, the best part is that it's easier than Facebook <laugh>. Um, I would say TikTok ads is kind of like a beacon of hope in this last year. That's been so shitty for advertisers like with the Facebook iOS 14 changes. I think it really threw off ad accounts in ways that we did not expect, um, or anticipate and has been really hurtful for brands and agencies. So TikTok ads has been not as affected by iOS 14, like in terms of performance and because the CPMs are cheaper and their platform and algorithm keeps getting better and better that a lot of brands are even just skipping, running Facebook ads. Like new brands are like, you know, it's too expensive, it's too difficult. I'm just gonna go straight to running TikTok ads and they're seeing good results right. Outta the gate. So thank God for TikTok ads.

Social Savannah (15:18):

That's all I have to say because Facebook ads over the last year has just been so difficult to get to work at the levels that they were before. So it was almost the bad part. The bad part is that you need really good TikTok ad creatives. A lot of brands will take what they're running on Facebook and just whatever they're running on, Instagram stories, try it on TikTok. And they're like, oh, this didn't work. Talk's not for us. And they give up or they just simply don't know like the right like campaign structure and like media buying strategies around TikTok, cuz it is kind of a completely different beast beasts in Facebook. I think it's a lot easier than Facebook once you know what to do. But, um, I think brands are just kind of lost and confused about what the best practices and also how to make, making sure that you have creatives that are optimized for TikTok, not just taking what you're running on other platforms and throwing on TikTok and expect it to work. It, it, you do have to put in the time and effort to make very TikTok style creatives that look native to the platform.

Rabah Rahil (16:16):

I love that. And it almost reminds me of when the big brands came over and just started to put TV ads on Facebook and like, why, why is my Facebook ads not working? And it feels the same kind of same vibes there. Um, do you think there is any benefit to actually cuz some people kind of use can to kill a mosquito sometimes. Do you think there's actually any benefit to creating the actual ads in the actual native editor on your phone? Or do you prefer to do it kind of, um, you know, in like final cut or Adobe or something in a, in a more, um, bigger manner, if that makes any sense at all?

Social Savannah (16:49):

It makes a lot of sense. I would say sometimes the best ads are edited right in TikTok or through like iPhone apps, like cap cut is an amazing one that I use for so many ads. So you don't need to be like a premier final cut pro expert. So on my team, I have a creative team where I would say half of the ads we do, we actually edit like on our phones, whether in TikTok or cap, just to make it super organic to the platform. And then the other half will still try to make it TikTok style, but maybe there's some more transitions or things that are easier to accomplish in premiere, um, that we'll do through that. So it's definitely not necessary to be like a video editing expert to do good TikTok ads. I think editing it right in TikTok is gonna make it look that much more organic and native to the platform. So it can definitely work good for TikTok ads.

Rabah Rahil (17:39):

Oh, I love that. Um, what's been one challenge that you've dealt with. Um, when you transitioned from going from, um, working at an agency to spinning up your own shop.

Social Savannah (17:50):

Mm. I mean, there there's been so many ch challenges,

Rabah Rahil (17:54):

One of your favorite challenges, that's kind of a, a oxymoron there, I guess, but <laugh>

Social Savannah (17:59):

Yeah. I would say being, um, being in like I would say like the best thing and the, and like the most challenging thing is like being in control of your own schedule. Like when I was working at an agency or any full-time job, like you have these meetings in the morning, you do this in the afternoon, you have these tasks where, when you're working for yourself, like ultimately I'm in charge of my own day, which I think is, was difficult for me to master at first of how to delegate my time, how to create processes that are, um, like scalable and can. So I don't have to work 20 hours a day, like how I can, how I can best use like the eight hours of my day that I'm choosing to work most effectively. When, when you're a business owner, there's literally like unlimited tasks like between like marketing yourself, dealing with clients, dealing with billing, admin stuff, taxes like you can easily spend your whole day just dealing with one of those things. So figuring out how to manage your schedule and not having your schedule, I guess, decided for you or meetings that are decided for you, um, has been like the most challenging, but now most rewarding now that I'm, I feel like I'm in a good groove of how I divide my day up between meetings and getting stuff done.

Rabah Rahil (19:06):

Oh, I love that. Are you a control freak? Did you have a hard time delegating to your, your team or was that a pretty easy transition for you? Cause I I'm a big control freak was

Social Savannah (19:16):


Rabah Rahil (19:18):

To be honest

Social Savannah (19:20):

I'm and the reason I left the agency I think is a bit of a control freak thing too. I was like, you know, I think as a freelancer I can do this all better. Like I don't I'm, I don't need the agency. Like people wanna work with me. So a lot of it I think is like ego and pride too. And when I first went freelance, I was doing all of the UGC videos myself. Like every day I was filming every, I was editing myself, but I realized for my clients, like it would be beneficial if I had other content creators. So it's not just my smiley face in the ads. There's other beautiful smiling faces and maybe editors who are better at editing than I am. So I think finding those creators that I truly believe are better than myself has taken so much trial and error and finding good editors.

Social Savannah (20:03):

I've been through so many bad ones, but I found like my core group of like really solid content, creators and editors, or now when I assign client tasks to them, the stuff that they're coming out with is like better than anything I could have shot myself, edited myself. I could still give the direction, but then not have to do the entire execution, which has just been amazing. But for the media buying side, I'm still a hundred percent in control freak. Like I never plan on hiring a media buyer or anyone to help me. Like I'm a hundred percent the only one in ad accounts. I'm still the only person talking to clients. Um, so I very much am still a freelancer, but I'm lucky that I have these awesome creative content girls and editors who can help me with the content side.

Rabah Rahil (20:45):

Yeah. I love that. I I've been trying to wean myself off as well. And so I'll give tasks to kind of my direct reports. And then, um, just tell them if they have a question I'm just gonna ask them, like, what do you think I would say? And then mm-hmm, <affirmative> I get really excited. Kind of what you were talking about previously is like, when they come back with an answer that was better than mine. I'm like, actually I wouldn't have said that, but that seemed bad. Go do that. Yeah. So yeah, I can definitely overlay when you, you sometimes can give up the reins and then, um, be delighted when you find, um, talent that really fits and vibes with the, the culture and the, the performance that you're looking to drive. That's fantastic.

Social Savannah (21:22):


Rabah Rahil (21:24):

What's some of the BI, like what are the biggest mistakes people make when making U GC or getting U GC either and or

Social Savannah (21:32):

Yeah, I mean, there's, I I've seen a lot of bad U GC, let me tell you <laugh> um, and I've created some bad UGC back in the day, like four years ago. So, um, I can really go on and on about this, but I would say, um, like one of the biggest mistakes I see brands do is they'll find micro influencers on Instagram or TikTok and they'll be like, Hey, let's collaborate. They'll DM them, send them some product and they get the ads back and they're disappointed and they try 'em in the ad account and they're like, oh, this didn't work. And I think that it's expecting influencers to be like ad marketers or like understand like eCommerce direct response marketing, like they, so a lot of these influencers know nothing about eCommerce or direct response. They're really good at shooting content or looking good on camera, but that absolutely does not mean that they know what a hook is, how to grab attention in the first three seconds that the ad needs to be a certain length, what lighting we need, what shots we need.

Social Savannah (22:30):

So I would say that the biggest mistake is like, as making the assumptions that you're going to get, like the ads that I post on Twitter, for instance, like these are very thought out, very like scripted, briefed, every single shot, everything in the storyboard is like pre-planned and then we go and get the content and edit it in the way to match that storyboard that we planned out. This is not just like, oh, like she's cute. I'm gonna ship her some products and which she comes back with. So it's, it's very much like, um, method, method, methodological <laugh> method, scripted, formulaic, as you pointed out, I'm like, this is the element from this ad that worked well. And then I need you saying this for three seconds and then we're shooting this and then we're doing this light and then we're ending here. Like it is very much pre-planned.

Social Savannah (23:18):

So I think if you don't, it, it's fine to work with micro influencers and contact them, but have like a very specific brief of the shot, the shots you want, the script you want the intro, the outro, and then you're gonna be a lot happier with the end result. Um, don't expect influencers or content creators to be good ad marketers. Um, so that's something that I would a hundred percent recommend if you're a brand or if you're starting out with, with, um, being your own content creator, like come in with a plan, like the worst thing you can do. Like if I have a client like, oh, I need to shoot some stuff for them today for an ad. It's just like shoot dev without a plan, like at least have like an ad inspiration that you're going off of or script that you've prewritten out or certain shots that you've seen in other ads that you wanna get. Um, then you're gonna be a lot more intentional with the content you create and then editing. It is gonna be so much faster after, because you're basically just gonna follow the formula that you've already decided on.

Rabah Rahil (24:16):

Oh, I love that. So what does that look like for you then? Do you, do you just write it down in a storyboard? Do you have like a software that you use, do you, do you just kind of like, take me kind of a little bit through that process? Cause I, I love this where it almost sounds like that, you know, you're scripting all of this and then the, the U GC person is almost essentially just like the talent and they're executing on this, the script that you give them. Right.

Social Savannah (24:39):

Exactly. And a lot of the talent I work with are actually actresses. Like they're full-time gig is acting. So that's what, I'm what I'm trying to identify. Good talent. I'm really just looking for people who can like talk, well, it's the camera understand, good lighting, get the shots I need. I don't even care if they have one follower or a hundred thousand followers. Like I'm just looking for like really natural talent and like authenticity. And of course matching like the client's demo of what they're looking for. So a bit about my process. So I have 15 girls on my team who only create content for me and every single week for all of my clients, I'm going to these same 15 girls to get content. So I'll assign them maybe two ads each a week. So every single week, um, I usually do this on Thursdays and Fridays.

Social Savannah (25:25):

I'll go and I'll write the scripts. And I, I, I use a Trello board for all my project management, my and my clients love Trello. Um, so I'll, I'll first write a content guide. That's more like general brand talking points, value props, dos, and don'ts, that's more, that's not specific to this ad, but more of just like general, um, learn about the brand. This is what we need. And then I'll go into, um, providing a specific ad example. So I always show them a previous ad example, whether that we've made or that I've found online of like, okay, this is kind of the vibe we're going for. And I'll point out like the elements that I like. Like, we love that these shots are in this ad we need, and then I'll write out the script. Like here's the lines that we need. And so, because I've been working with these same 15 girls a lot with them for months on end now, like they kind of understand the process and what I'm looking for so I can provide 'em the script.

Social Savannah (26:16):

And then usually they have like a three day turnaround time to get me the raw content. So I usually give them all of, um, the scripts in briefs by Friday. So that by Monday I can review all the raw content and make sure that all of the shots that I requested, all the scripted lines, everything sounds good. And maybe I'll go back and ask them for some extra shots. If I thought one wasn't that good, or maybe I want them to read an extra line. So the ultimate goal is that by Tuesday of each week, I have all the raw content ready to send to the editors. And then I go to the editors with the raw content and I'm like, okay, here's a storyline. Like we want this shot first I'll point to this clip. Then I want her saying this line. And then I want this shot and they're all 15 second ads. So it is a short storyboard, um, between 15 and 30 seconds. And so then the editors get me the first drafts by Wednesday or Thursday and I can give any revisions so that on Friday of each week, I send out all the ads to my clients. And then I start the process over writing the briefs for the next week. So that's my weekly process and how I work with the content creators.

Rabah Rahil (27:20):

Yeah. That's a beautiful cadence. It sounds like a, a very well oil machine. I, I love that. The shout out Trello, let's go, let's go.

Social Savannah (27:27):

Trello is awesome.

Rabah Rahil (27:29):

Um, when you, when you're looking at like creatives and evaluating them, what, what makes a good creative and what makes a bad creative

Social Savannah (27:37):

Performance? <laugh>, you know, beautiful answer. I think I've, I've had to put my pride aside a lot because, and, and this, again, it goes back to the flex, that muscle of identifying this is a good ad. That's a bad ad. You don't always get it. Right. Sometimes I'll see an ad and I'm like, mm, I don't know about this one. Like, I'll test it. But I think it's kind of slow at the beginning, but then it ends up being like the best forming ad. Then I have to like, rethink about like, okay, why this actually perform well and same with other ones there's ads I make where I'm so excited about it. It's following all the right formulas. It's all the elements. And then it doesn't spend, it doesn't get good ROAS. Um, and the other ads just overtake it. And then I have to come back and analyze like, what went wrong? What can I change about it? So I'm definitely not like a hundred percent on my radar of like, this is gonna work. This is not. Um, but ultimately, um, me and my clients, all we care about is the, the RO what's it called like one ROAS to rule. 'em all roll them all. Like, what's

Rabah Rahil (28:36):

It called three RO as to rule 'em all, but yeah, yeah.

Social Savannah (28:41):

Clients have their triple dashboard up and they're looking at their ROAS on TikTok and how their Mer is looking. And ultimately they're going to let me know, like either these ads are making money for us or they're not, and you're fired. So ultimately I'm trying to make more of the ads that are making money for them so I can keep my job. Um, and then just re doubling down on the ads that are working. So I'm a hundred percent in trip oil or in a manager looking at the creative performance, um, and identifying what are the top spenders? What are the top performers? And just doubling down on the concepts that are working,

Rabah Rahil (29:16):

What a gorgeous answer. I, I U I also had, uh, a big fall from grace as well, where, uh, I used to kind of worship at the altar of aesthetic. Um, and like, and you realize like these gorgeous ads are for people in marketing Twitter to be like, these are gorgeous ads. <laugh>, they're not for printing money. And you're just like, do you wanna win awards? Or do you wanna put commas in your bank account? Like you can choose, it's fine. I'll do whatever, whatever which one you want. But at the end of the day, like, I don't know if those awards are gonna pay your rent. And so, um, I had a, a hard fall from grace and I had clients that would spend upwards of 10, 15 K a month. Uh, this is back when I was running my shop. And, um, we would beat them out with just little Canva ads. And you're like, you just pay,

Social Savannah (30:00):

I love seven

Rabah Rahil (30:01):

Grand for that creative. It's like, I don't, I mean, we could keep running this if you want, man. But this camp ad is commanding all the spend and it cost us literally like a hundred bucks to make, but it's your money. We'll spend it, how you want. Um, so I love that answer. I think more people, uh, should subscribe to that answer because it's, uh, you can get caught in that. And I love the humility as well, where you're not gonna be able to call it all the time, but having that self-reflection and be like, okay, why did I get this wrong? And then seeing if you can calibrate the system even more finely to make sure that that one doesn't slip through the cracks and it might, you know, it's never gonna be a hundred percent because there's always trends. There's always these things that you're gonna be able to find and ride. But, um, at the end of the day, I think that's such a beautiful way to anchor yourself in, in performance, cuz at the end of the day, that is what ADSS are for is to drive performance or not to win awards in my opinion, anyways,

Social Savannah (30:53):

Totally. I always have that conversation with clients. Some of them that are more like brand focused, like aesthetic, like you said, and I always just tell them like, just try it. I'm like I have four other clients, this formula worked like these content creators work. Like this is a good ad. Just try it. And then if they do try it, then they're like, oh yeah, I guess you're right. And to your point with the contrary, they have like this beautifully polished ad, I'm like this isn't gonna work well on TikTok and then, but I'll launch it just to prove point. And then I'm like, yeah, it didn't work. Um, surprise. So awkward.

Rabah Rahil (31:26):

<laugh> I learned

Social Savannah (31:28):

That it's your way too. About like, you're never gonna guess a hundred percent of the time or what ads are gonna work. Um, cuz if I did, if I had that ability for a hundred percent of the time, I knew ads are gonna work. I would have my private island and on this podcast right now, I always tell it to clients too. I'm like if I, if I, if I had the formula for media buying to where I could just print money and RO as like, I, I wouldn't be here, I'd be doing my own thing, be on my private jet, but I don't here I am on this call with you. I'm gonna try my best and like, oh yeah, that's a good point. <laugh>

Rabah Rahil (32:02):

Oh, I love that. Um, okay. A couple more questions and then we'll get into the rapid fire. Uh, what are some of your favorite hooks?

Social Savannah (32:10):

Ooh, um, things TikTok made me buy is like one that seems to work across so many clients. So actually like saying the word TikTok, um, stuff. I wish I knew about sooner website. You should know about exhibitions like furniture edition. Um, don't buy this, buy that instead. Um, for like don't buy the more expensive one. Here's like a cheaper alternative or, or better quality alternative, um, thing. There's <laugh> a lot of like things I wish I, I knew about or um, Amazon finds stuff I that on the internet that I can no longer live without. These are like classics that I keep going back to over and over again.

Rabah Rahil (32:50):

Oh, I love that. Um, one of your what's some of your favorite enhancements,

Social Savannah (32:55):

Like what, what's an enhancement,

Rabah Rahil (32:58):

Um, like the robot voice. I love that one where you put that out. Like where the, uh, the computer, the computerized voice that reads its the, um, captions.

Social Savannah (33:06):

I do love the, I love a good robot voice that you

Rabah Rahil (33:09):

Gotta love it. Right?

Social Savannah (33:10):

<laugh> that's something I feel like we've lost six months. We've I'm kind of burned down robot voice. We did it. So, oh

Rabah Rahil (33:16):


Social Savannah (33:18):

There was a point where like every single ad we were making had a robot voice for like a couple months. So we're finally off the robot voice tread. Now the latest thing we're doing over the last couple weeks is like ASMR. So like no music. Oh yeah, no voice. Just like the sounds of the product we've been super into those last couple weeks. Um, so voice for the time being for the better I'm so tired of hearing that robot voice

Rabah Rahil (33:44):

R I P robot voice never will

Social Savannah (33:47):

Come back, but I need a little break.

Rabah Rahil (33:49):

<laugh> it's funny though. Cuz it has to be hilarious for you. I always joke about, um, so I play around on Reddit a lot and a lot of times on Reddit, that's kind of like the Genesis of the meme and then it'll kind of trickle down through the social networks and it eventually ends on Facebook and then, um, your friends send it to you and stuff and you're like, dude, I've already, I've seen this meme like two years ago kind of thing. So that must be how you feel on a lot of these hooks and trends where you're like, oh my gosh, I've been doing this hook forever and now it's finally going mainstream or IP robot voice. Oh, okay. Last question. What's the, uh, biggest opportunity you see with TikTok?

Social Savannah (34:27):

I think just the fact that it's still like four times cheaper in terms of CPMs and Facebook. It's never, it's not gonna be like that forever. So I think the opportunity is now to like take advantage of not all brands are on TikTok yet or are figuring it out in terms of like the right creatives or have enough budget to really test it. So it's still super early. There's not as much competition. What I love about TikTok two is they also have really great support for both agencies and brands. Like the dedicated reps that you get. Once you start spending like a certain threshold, they'll sign you an account rep or an agency rep. And they're just fantastic at like getting you on new betas and alphas and um, really, um, making sure that the account is like as optimized as it could be. So I've really have enjoyed just working with the people at TikTok too. And um, yeah, just like the support is great. The platform is stable. It's scalable. It's cheaper than Facebook. It's like what, what else is there to say? <laugh>

Rabah Rahil (35:26):

No, I love that. Yeah. I, and uh, it's great to hear that the reps are better because if I get one more damn call from a Facebook, I don't run Facebook. I don't even run account. Well, I guess I I'm on the triple account now, but outside of the triple account, I'm not and I still get calls and they are just incessant. It's like a bad ex is drunk and they're just like six calls in a row. You're like, dude, chill. It's just, Ugh. It's so bad. That's fantastic.

Social Savannah (35:50):

He's marketing, Facebook marketing experts.

Rabah Rahil (35:54):

That's the other thing too. It's like, dude, you're an ex bazillion dollar company and you're just pulling people off the street. It feels like, and you're like, Hey, power five. And you're like, dude, like anyways, especially cuz like if you're spending, like once you start to get like reps or at least decent reps, like you're spending decent amounts of money and they're coming at you with just this garbage let's run traffic campaigns that you're just like, okay, good talk to see you out. There it is. Yeah. It it's. It's a, uh, it's condescending. It's it's a bit like, come on, come on. Yeah. All right, Savannah. You know, I love you, but it's rapid fire time. Are you ready? Strap in. I'm ready.

Social Savannah (36:29):

I'm ready.

Rabah Rahil (36:30):

Okay. Overrated, underrated, thumb, stop ratio

Social Savannah (36:34):


Rabah Rahil (36:36):

Ooh. I love it. Uh, Yosemite, overrated. Underrated.

Social Savannah (36:42):

I have say underrated. I've never been though. So

Rabah Rahil (36:44):

You're the third you chase.

Speaker 3 (36:47):

Oh how these California people, how do you not go to Yosemite?

Rabah Rahil (36:50):

You're killing me.

Social Savannah (36:51):

Then you live in California. You don't drive anywhere. Cause it's too traffic.

Rabah Rahil (36:55):

You just stay home for point, um, whip its and not the party type people. We're talking about puppies here. Uh, overrated, underrated,

Social Savannah (37:05):

Underrated, Kevin, the silly whip it on Instagram is my, my little puppy, but wants to follow.

Rabah Rahil (37:11):

Oh we need, you should follow him. He's he's adorable. I, he did a little sofa ad with you as well. Didn't he? I saw your Instagram. He he's

Social Savannah (37:19):

Scar of a lot of bad. He's

Rabah Rahil (37:20):

He's a dog.

Social Savannah (37:21):

He's a huge, a dog bed. Anything dog related. He's always down for.

Rabah Rahil (37:27):

Yeah. He is a absolute star and, and a handsome little fellow at that. Uh, U GC overrated, underrated,

Social Savannah (37:34):

Um, underrated of course baby. Like, I don't know. Cause it is pretty hyped up. So maybe it's just like properly

Rabah Rahil (37:42):

Rated. Yeah. I love it. Uh, TikTok, overrated, underrated.

Social Savannah (37:47):

Um, I would also say like pretty accurately rated <laugh>. I love it. People are into TikTok now.

Rabah Rahil (37:53):

Instagram reels, overrated, underrated,

Social Savannah (37:56):

Definitely underrated. It's a platform or a placement that a lot of advertisers aren't really spending significantly on, but you can take your TikTok ads, throw it on Instagram rails and they're doing really well right now for my clients.

Rabah Rahil (38:08):

Fantastic. I see a lot of, um, they're getting a, a ton of impressions too on the main feed where they're starting to smash them into your main feed as well, which is uh, pretty awesome.

Social Savannah (38:18):

And on Facebook they're showing a lot of Instagram meals. You're

Rabah Rahil (38:21):

Right. You're right. Uh, favorite thing to do in Vegas?

Social Savannah (38:26):

Uh, golden Knights games.

Rabah Rahil (38:28):

Oh yeah. Gotta get your ice time in. I love it. Yep. Favorite meal and why?

Social Savannah (38:34):

Ooh, so I, I love sushi. Um, you can't go wrong. We have a really good sushi place here in Vegas that we go to once a week, so

Rabah Rahil (38:42):

Oh yeah. What's your, what's your go to role?

Social Savannah (38:46):

Um, they have like this like mango salmon role. That's my favorite.

Rabah Rahil (38:50):

Do you ever do like the real bougie ones where they like, they like cook them? It's not even like a sushi role or the, the, no, you, you keep them

Social Savannah (38:57):

Coming. I'm just a classic roll girl. Like rainbow roll,

Rabah Rahil (39:02):

Simple, simple gal, simple pleasures. I love it. <laugh> uh, favorite place travel to and why?

Social Savannah (39:07):

Um, I studied abroad in Cape town, South Africa for six spots. Really? Which was, I loved Cape town so much. Really great nature. Good weather, good people. So that that's a, a favorite place for sure.

Rabah Rahil (39:21):

How'd you get there? That's a long, long trip.

Social Savannah (39:24):

You stop through Dubai.

Rabah Rahil (39:26):

I was just in Dubai. Okay. So you go across. Oh, so you go west and

Social Savannah (39:31):

You go like Elway to Dubai. Um, like across the Atlantic.

Rabah Rahil (39:36):


Social Savannah (39:37):

And then down and

Rabah Rahil (39:38):

Then Dubai. Oh my gosh. It's direct play <laugh> yeah. So what what's I guess what's the longest flight you've been on then? That has to be what? 12, 14 hour flight.

Social Savannah (39:48):

Yeah, probably I've been to Australia a few times and I think that's like from LA, like 13 hours to Sydney. Oh, so gosh, I think it is, is Dubai to LA is probably longer then, right?

Rabah Rahil (39:59):

It was, was that well we went Dubai to Newark or actually Tel Aviv. So we, we skipped a little bit, so I don't know. I, yeah. So Dubai, Dubai to is there there's a Dubai to LA man. Imagine that

Social Savannah (40:12):

They need it a few times. Unfortunately <laugh> oh

Rabah Rahil (40:14):

No I not. That's longest. Yeah. I am not into that. My longest was 12 and I was, uh, I hated that. Not, not the path for me. Favorite way to spend your time.

Social Savannah (40:27):

Um, probably with my, my whip it Kevin follow for the puppy, but I'm not on Twitter. I'm hanging out with the dog.

Rabah Rahil (40:34):

Aww. Speaking of Twitter, favorite follow on Twitter.

Social Savannah (40:38):

Uh, triple will of course.

Rabah Rahil (40:40):

Oh, right in the feels right in the feels. Okay. Last question. You'll you'll make it through the gauntlet. That is rapid fire. If you could have dinner with three people dead or alive, fictional or non-fictional who would it be? So there's a four person table. You're sitting at the head and you have three guests. You can invite anybody. Who would they be?

Social Savannah (40:59):

Oh, this is, this is so hard. I'm so bad at these <laugh> I, I need some time to think. Um, okay. I rapid fire this. Um, maybe my family, I feel like that's a

Rabah Rahil (41:13):

Oh, so, okay, so now you gotta pick out your family. So you're talking mom, dad, siblings.

Social Savannah (41:18):

Yeah. Have mom, dad and husband.

Rabah Rahil (41:21):

Aw, that's sweet. I think you're the first person that said that. How sweet. Oh, love. I think

Social Savannah (41:26):

It was, it was an easy cop out. Cause like celebrities. I don't really like celebrities. I don't know if I had some more time. <laugh> understood list together.

Rabah Rahil (41:40):

Oh, I love that. Savannah. You've been such a gem. Thank you for all the knowledge and everything that you've put out into the world. Speaking of what you've put out into the world, you've just launched a new course. Correct?

Social Savannah (41:52):

I did. It is a TikTok ads mastery course where people can learn everything they need to know about TikTok media, buying TikTok ad creatives, TikTok attribution with triple whale. Um, big triple section on there. So if you're already a triple whale user and you wanna figure out how to do TikTok ads, this is gonna play right into your existing triple whale reporting and attribution, um, reporting. So I would definitely recommend it. If you're interested in take talk ads,

Rabah Rahil (42:20):

How do people get it? How do people get involved?

Social Savannah (42:23):

Um, maybe is there gonna be like a link potentially?

Rabah Rahil (42:25):

Yeah, we could put, put link in the show notes.

Social Savannah (42:28):

Okay. Link in the notes. Boom.

Rabah Rahil (42:29):

Link in the notes and then perfect. That's it. That's a show you made it. Can you believe it?

Social Savannah (42:35):

We did it. Thank you.

Rabah Rahil (42:37):

Unbelievable. An unfazed. The Nevada sun has done you well, you are incredible human. Thank you so much for taking the time folks. That's it. That's 24 in the books. If you wanna get more involved with triple well it's tri triple well.com. We are on the bird app at triple whale and you can also subscribe to our fantastic newsletter called whale mail goes out every Tuesday, Thursday, the subscription is right on our Twitter profile. Uh, Savannah, how do people follow you?

Social Savannah (43:04):

I am social underscore Savannah on Twitter, and you can also reach me at my website, which is the social savannah.com and on my website, the social savannah.com. You'll also see the link to my TikTok ads scores.

Rabah Rahil (43:17):

Beautiful again, Savannah. Thank you so much for your time, everybody. Thanks again for stopping in episode 24 in the books. We'll see everybody on the flip. Bye. Bye.

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