Automated Rules Engine | Whale Webinar #13
Published on
May 18, 2023
Rabah, Logan, Saunder and Ilya give a rundown on the new Automated Rules Engine.

Rabah Rahil (00:01):

Okay. Interesting. I like, I like the old Miss Lamp, though. It looks good. And you got the whale. Look at, I, I got my whale Wednesday stuff. Slack City over there doesn't have it. You have your whale tail on. All right, folks, we're live, we're back. It's Wednesday. You know what time it is. It's whale webinar Wednesday. And then boy, ho, ho, ho. Look at this one. The baby blues. All right, let's go. He's Helia. Logan Saunder. Um, thank you guys for joining us and everybody thank you for tuning in. This is one of my favorite, uh, things I get to do every week. Um, a little bit of housekeeping. We just dropped our holiday DDC gift guide, so if you do need some interesting, uh, gifts to you by, there's a fantastic one. I'll drop this link in the chat. Um, and then have you guys got all your holiday shopping? Are you guys big, big holiday shoppers?

Logan Brown (00:51):

I still need, if he's on here, I need to get in touch with you. I can't remember the name of your brand, but you had the dog portraits. Oh, I need one.

Rabah Rahil (00:58):

The German one. The, it was a P word, but I can't remember. Ri or I'll have to go back. We can go back and watch the, it's not poopy, but, uh, we'll have to go watch the, the old, uh, I

Logan Brown (01:10):

Guess I could've watched the recording, couldn't I?

Rabah Rahil (01:12):

Yeah, I think it's in there, but We'll, it, we'll get, we'll get you figured out. Um,

Logan Brown (01:18):

Is it Pat on Canvas? Was it Pet on Canvas? Is that what it's called?

Rabah Rahil (01:22):

No, that might be one of 'em. This was a German brand, but it was really cool. It was like, uh, I can't remember the other thing that there was, uh, crown and Paws is very similar. Same, same but different. Like these really cool, sophisticated portraits are your pets. It was gorgeous. It was a German site, but, um, they were super awesome. It was really cool. We did it there in our, now

Saunder Schroeder (01:41):

All their competitors, you know. Yeah.

Rabah Rahil (01:44):

Out. We'll bleep that out. We'll bleep that out. Well, I, I think that's only state side, to be fair. So I'm sure they penetrate, uh, Europe. But are you all, are you all purchased up for the holiday season? Saunder, no gift giving you, you,

Saunder Schroeder (01:56):

I, I have a, an awesome wife who just tackles it all and

Rabah Rahil (02:00):

Amazing.

Saunder Schroeder (02:01):

And she says, what would you do without me? And I say, I would do the Christmas shopping. So, hey,

Rabah Rahil (02:08):

Zinc, let us just light, light up that Amex. But anyhow, go check out the DDC gift guide. If you like it, share it. Make my bosses happy. That'll be fantastic. And then we also, I don't believe they're on the store yet, but we just got some, where are they? Check these out.

Saunder Schroeder (02:25):

Oh, I'll wear that. I'll wear that The next Wednesday webinar. Right.

Logan Brown (02:29):

Who, who made that for you?

Rabah Rahil (02:31):

Um, uh, our merch person, actually, this was outside of our merch person. This isn't, this isn't actually a Gary, uh, Gary joint. This is, um, uh, we have two merch people. Gary does our super, super sophisticated stuff. And then, um, l has another merch person, but it's, they're gorgeous. They're actually really, really amazing. It's like a hundred degrees here in Texas, so they're not super applicable. But, um, Saunder was just out at his cabin and it was snowing and it was beautiful. So you could use them there. And then it's a little cold where you're at Logan, right? It's Or tempera. Yeah.

Logan Brown (02:59):

It's kinda crappy right now. It's been rainy in forties.

Rabah Rahil (03:01):

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you can, you can throw a beanie there. Uh, Ilia and I will use it more so for, uh, the hipster look than actual utility. But hey, you know, as you do, as you do, you get the weathers. But enough rambling. You have been working on something with Ilia for a really long time now. It's kind of a evolution of what Facebook offered. Uh, there's a couple other people in this space that kind of do it, but we are actually doing an automated rules engine off of first party data. Pretty incredible. Um, there's some really cool things in there in terms of new customer, c p a blended roas. A lot of really interesting metrics that you can jump off of. But, um, before I steal your thunder, you wanna jump into an account, share some screens, and then we'll do kind of the debut of the automated rules engine. This will be pushed to your accounts live tomorrow. Do we have a time, or is it just kind of tomorrow ish?

Ilya Baklanov (03:54):

We, we know that when it's, uh, launching tomorrow, I would recommend just like checking it out around like 10:11 AM uh, Eastern time.

Rabah Rahil (04:01):

Beautiful. And we'll ping everybody too, when it's all live in your accounts. But, um, the coolest part is it's free. So this, there's no upcharge or anything if you, you do have to have the pixel, obviously, because it's built off of first party data. So if you don't have a pixel, it's a great time to get a pixel. Um, and you're getting all this free stuff. So without further ado, Logan Ilia, take it away.

Logan Brown (04:21):

Yeah, yeah. So Ilia, I, um, I'm happy to, to kind of share my screen. I'd love, if you don't mind. Sure. Would you be willing to tell the, the, the crew here, like, what do you need this for? Why do you want it, and what's everybody gonna get excited about tomorrow when it launches?

Ilya Baklanov (04:34):

Sure. Thank you. Um, we've built the rules engine so that we can help our customers, be it a shop owner, a marketer working at a shop, or an agency that's helping the shop perform, save time, save money, and just grow more profitably.

Rabah Rahil (04:53):

Amazing.

Ilya Baklanov (04:55):

And we're doing that without taking away from them anything that is creative, anything that requires thinking through and coming up with interesting ideas. We're only automating the most boring and mundane steps. Checking your performance day after day, hour after an hour at night, during the holidays, during the weekends, and just making sure that your ads are performing at the correct level. And if not, adjusting the budgets up and down, turning ads, sets, campaigns on and off. So again, we're automating the simplest things and letting you have more time to focus on the creative work, on strategies, on building out products, figuring out the customer base and and so on.

Logan Brown (05:42):

Yeah, it's awesome. So shall we give it a look,

Ilya Baklanov (05:46):

<laugh>? Yeah. Let's see.

Rabah Rahil (05:47):

Unveil it. Let's go.

Logan Brown (05:49):

Sweet. All right, cool. So let's see what's possible.

Rabah Rahil (05:53):

And then while you guys are loading that up, is there any housekeeping stuff? Do you, because I think I was reading in the internal KB that somebody has to re-up their Facebook permissions to allow for, um, turning on and off of assets, right?

Logan Brown (06:10):

Yeah. There's just like an ads management permission we need, but all of that will kinda be taken care of in app, so

Rabah Rahil (06:16):

Okay. It'll pop up and yell at somebody.

Logan Brown (06:17):

You'll be prompted. Yeah. Yeah. So

Rabah Rahil (06:19):

Amazing, amazing.

Logan Brown (06:20):

Hopefully make it easy just to reconnect and, and, uh, start firing away.

Rabah Rahil (06:24):

Amazing. Um,

Logan Brown (06:26):

Yeah. Yeah. So, great. So, um, we're in kind of the house account right now, so ignore some of the, the numbers, but I wanna use this as a way to, um, show off new features like this. So, um,

Rabah Rahil (06:37):

Sorry to cut you off before you get rolling. I just wanna, if you guys have any questions about anything, just toss 'em into the chat or the question box and we can address you guys, uh, in real time because this, ultimately, this demo is for you guys to understand how to leverage these, um, as useful as possible. And so you might, guys, you guys all might think of some weird edge cases or something like that, so happy to interject. So feel free, this isn't a lecture, it is a two-way conversation with us and you all. So feel free to jump in there. Sorry, Logan, I didn't, I just wanna sneak that out. Pro

Ilya Baklanov (07:08):

Professor lecture by Professor Brown.

Rabah Rahil (07:10):

Yeah, he does look like a professor. I can just see the, I, I can see the, uh, arm patch or the elbow patches on the, on the jacket. Do jacket, elbow patches stuff. Yeah, I knew it. I knew it.

Logan Brown (07:22):

I'm waspy, right Robin? That's, um, <laugh>. My third grade teacher told my mom I was gonna be a teacher one day, believe it or not. Um, here I am teaching the world

Rabah Rahil (07:33):

<laugh>. Exactly.

Logan Brown (07:34):

All right, so tomorrow when you log in to Trip Whale, um, hopefully somewhere around mid-afternoon, you'll see a rules engine icon when you go to pixel ads. Um, it's only available for Facebook right now. Um, if you're interested in other platforms, like let us know, probably taking a running, uh, tally and vote on that, uh, to see where the interest lies outside of Facebook. Uh, but clicking on this icon, um, the first thing you're gonna see tomorrow as a new customer coming into this is the Triple L strategy. Uh, you can see here that the, uh, we have some saved rules that I'll show you guys in a minute. Um, and then you'll be able to create your own roof from rule from scratch if you would like. Uh, the first thing I'd like to talk about is like the Triple L strategy, what it is, who that's for, um, and what might entice you to kind of go that route.

(08:21)
Um, so when you hop in, you can click the view button to see the list of rules that we have under this strategy. So there's a couple of layers here that we've built in the triple whale strategy. We have rules, right? So, uh, that may be set at a specific, uh, level campaign, add, set or ad. We have filters and conditions and then actions. So how often do you want us to look for the conditions you've set? What are the conditions you'd like to set? And then if those conditions are true, what action would you like us to take? So we know that for some of our customers, this is kind of daunting, right? It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, what are we doing? Um, but we also feel very adamant about the power of rules and, and what it can do for you. Um, specifically just saving you time.

(09:11)
Like it's something that Ilia just mentioned, but like, we think we can really save you a lot of time from the mundane task that you would typically do, trying to review how well your campaigns, ads sets, or ads are performing at any given time of day. Um, I specifically spoke to a customer last week that was waking up in the middle of the night every two hours just to check their ads. Um, and although I love that we could do the to for them, right? And let them sleep through the night and like power through the next day with some creative juice. Um, so when you get to the trip oil strategy, it's filled up with a list of rules that we've created. Um, this is to help you, like if you don't know where to start, review these, turn it on and like get going.

(09:53)
Um, we've vetted this by Saunder and a couple of other marketers as well, just to make sure that this would suit the needs of the majority. Um, but you can click through on any of these rules to actually see how we set it up. Um, I will probably spare you each one of these right now cause I'm gonna create a new rule from scratch, show you guys some of the templates we have available, which every rule that you'll see in the strategy is available as an individual template. So if you like one of them, but you don't want to turn the whole strategy on, you can create a new rule, choose the template, and then customize it as you wish. It's a great way to get started. Um, so just be sure to check this out tomorrow first before you go create a rule. See what we did here, see what you like. Um, if you like the entire strategy, turn it on and get going. Otherwise, um, you'll, you can follow the directions I'm about to go through now, which is creating your own rule to start with. Um, so let's kick things off.

Rabah Rahil (10:47):

So a, oh, let me just put a stake in the ground there. Any questions yet? Or is everybody still tracking? Cuz this is a bit, uh, highfalutin. There's, there's some cognitive load here. And so just to recap rules, a compilation of rules is what we're calling a strategy, Logan.

Logan Brown (11:03):

Yeah. And the reason I didn't wanna get too deep on a strategy is that right now all we have available is the triple whale strategy. Yep. Uh, that's the only thing that's able to toggle on and off. You can't create a strategy as a customer at this point, but Oh,

Rabah Rahil (11:17):

Good, good, good to know. Okay. That's where I was missing it.

Logan Brown (11:20):

But in general, like when you click this dropdown and you have a subset of rules here that are toggled on, that is your strategy of sorts. We're just not wrapping it up into a name. But, um, yeah, think of all rules that you have toggled on as your, your ad buying strategy or your efficiency strategy. Um, so yeah, anyway. Amazing. I think we do have one question, right?

Rabah Rahil (11:42):

Oh,

Logan Brown (11:43):

Somebody just came in. Oh, Saunder Saunder. Will this be uploaded? Yes,

Rabah Rahil (11:49):

Of course. I always put these on the YouTubes. Okay, cool. And then so amazing. Keep going. This is great. I love it. You're doing awesome.

Logan Brown (11:57):

Yeah. All right. So as I mentioned before, let's say you like a rule that's wrapped up in the Trip whale strategy, but you wanna isolate it. It's like, oh, I love that, but I don't want all the rest of them. You can specifically come in here and choose a template. One of my favorites is the ad stop loss, so I'll choose that. What happens immediately is that everything gets prepopulated for you. So this rules like pretty much ready to go outta the box except for the name. So I just need to name this bras badass up loss rule, okay?

Rabah Rahil (12:29):

<laugh>.

Logan Brown (12:30):

And then I need to choose a time for it to run. Okay? So me specifically, um, I'll keep it simple and just use like once per day. Um, let's do it every day at two o'clock. And I want it to run every single day. Okay? So, so far what we've done is we've created, we've used a template. The template is defined the level that we want the action to be taken. So we want you to turn off ads or turn on ads, uh, based on the conditions I've set below. And I want you to do it, I want you to check all these conditions once per day at 2:00 PM This is based on your shop's time zone, okay? Uh, so keep that simple. And then if I wanna do an additional filter, say only look at campaign names that contain t o f, because my top of funnel is the only campaign that I care about running a rule against, I could do that.

(13:30)
Um, now we get into conditions, okay? This is where everybodys pay attention. What we've created here, um, is a subset of dropdowns that explain a story around what thresholds you're willing to operate off of. Okay? So I'll, I'll reiterate what's listed here in layman's terms. So if my ads spend is greater than three x, my a o v, if my a o V is a hundred dollars, I'm saying, is my ad spend greater than $300 today? And is my ads ROAS 75% less, less than 75% of my account roas, right? So if it's below the, the account roas, we're saying that this ad is likely pulling you down, right? It's dragging you down. It's, it's lowering the, the, the, the average. So we want to stop it. So that's where the action comes into, into play start, or pause. So we've paused that one. Um, now that was kind of a mouthful. So Raba, what questions do you have right outta the gate now that I've described conditions?

Rabah Rahil (14:41):

So I love this so far, so I'm just trying to go up. So if you scroll up here, I just wanna have this order of operations. So the first thing is I wanted to, so you

Logan Brown (14:49):

Really choose a level.

Rabah Rahil (14:51):

So the first, so the first thing is if I'm gonna use a template or not? Yeah. Um, so you're using the ad stop-loss template. The syncing chip, by the way, these names are sensational. I'm very, very happy with them, by the way, <laugh>. Um, and then I'm gonna choose the level at which it acts. So whether that be the campaign level, the ad set level, or the ad level.

Logan Brown (15:11):

Yep.

Rabah Rahil (15:12):

So right now I'm saying I want this template to be used so it prefills all the stuff below. And then the level I want it to act on is the ad level. The next thing is I have a really snazzy title, so I can identify it in there. The next thing I would do, so, and then the descriptor, I'm guessing is just gonna be some subtext under that title if you decided to use it to explain it.

Logan Brown (15:37):

Yeah, like a good use case here. Um, let's say that someone on this call is a brand owner, but you have an agency, uh, you're trusting your agency to set up rules like this to maybe make everyone's life efficient. Um, they could write in descriptions here, like the layman's terms of what this is and what, what they're doing. And that way if the brand owner hops in, they can just read the description rather than trying to, uh, keep up with all the conditions and filters.

Rabah Rahil (16:00):

So that's something that else that I wanted to touch on, but just scroll up there. Okay, cool. And then you have your schedule. Do you recommend any scheduling? Like do you recommend the 24 hour? Do you recommend f because I think what we ratchet down to 15 minutes is the most frequent update, correct?

Logan Brown (16:20):

Yeah. So for something like a stop loss, um, I think it depends on how fast you're scaling your spend. Um, if you're a really big brand and you're spending a lot of money and throwing ads in the mix, very often you could run this every 15 minutes. Um, and you could say, listen, check my ads every 15 minutes. If I have an ad that's spent three x my a o v, I'll explain in a minute how we can maybe even dumb this, not dumb it down, but make it more simplified. Um, but if it's spent like three x my o v, let's say $300

Rabah Rahil (16:53):

Yep,

Logan Brown (16:54):

And it's operating below at 75% of my account, roaz shut it down.

Rabah Rahil (17:03):

And that is only look like, what's the look back window? It is using,

Logan Brown (17:09):

Well, we're using triple attribution event date. So it's

Rabah Rahil (17:13):

Unlimit. No, I'm saying like, is that just for that day? Is that for the last 72 hours? Is that like

Logan Brown (17:19):

You can decide here.

Rabah Rahil (17:20):

Okay, so today means what

Logan Brown (17:24):

This means, uh, let's say that I chose, I did choose 2:00 PM or earlier. I chose 2:00 PM Okay, say once per day at 2:00 PM this would be defined at today would equal 12:01 AM to 2:00 PM today in your shops time zone shops time zone.

Rabah Rahil (17:43):

Yep. In the shops time zone. So the ad account time zone is irrelevant. It's the Shopify time zone that matters.

Logan Brown (17:49):

Yeah. Yes. But if I did every 15 minutes, it's gonna run at 12:15 AM as well. So today only means 1201 to 12:15 AM at that point.

Rabah Rahil (17:59):

Okay. And then that is what it's checking it against.

Logan Brown (18:04):

Uh, that's what this condition is checking it against, right? So if I put today or last 24 hours, that's what it's checking it against.

Rabah Rahil (18:12):

Okay? So you only have either the today, which would be 1201 to whatever your schedule is, and then that time zone, or you would have the last 24 hours. And

Ilya Baklanov (18:25):

Now we, I I, I think we have more times is just a presentation back here right now that, uh, showed up this morning, okay. Where we, we allow you longer timeframes, not just today, not just 24 hours. I think it was up to 90 days, various

Rabah Rahil (18:39):

Questions. Okay. That, that's kind of what I was wondering is like sometimes the, there's not gonna be, or that tide of a feedback loop isn't necessarily completely representative of the performance of that ad, per se, if that makes sense. Where it's like it's better to have maybe a three day look back or something. And if something's blowing up in three days, then we want to kill it. Or if something's blowing up in four to eight hours, there's there versus like, if I'm checking every 15 minutes, by definition you might, you know, turn things off or you're not giving enough time for the wine to breathe, right? You need, you need to let it, let it marinate a little bit to make sure that, okay, that makes a ton of sense to me. And then the other question, an Adrian, uh, fantastic question by the way, Adrian, if you want some swag, hit me up. Cause that's a really great question. How are people notified about when a rule is triggered or not? Cause when you use Facebook rules, we'll actually send you, uh, not only a notification in your ad account, but also an email to the e uh, email assigned to that ad account saying, Hey, um, Logan, your stop loss rule or x y, z rule triggered, here's, here's the action we took from that thing. Um, what type of notification systems do we have built in? Do we, we don't have a Slack integration yet, do we?

Logan Brown (19:55):

Well, triple whales integrated with Slack. Uh, this feature specifically is we're, we're just, we're, we are working on it. So, uh, we're trying to figure out exactly what kind of notification options we would allow the customers to have. Um, but yes, we, we are working on a reporting mechanism that's more like proactive. But for today, you would want to go to the audit logs.

Rabah Rahil (20:18):

Oh, I didn't even know we had audit logs. Let's go

Logan Brown (20:21):

<laugh>. Yeah, so this account, okay, like I said, this is a, this is tough because we're not actively, uh, taking actions on this, but you would be taken here to our activity feed, and then in the activity feed we have activity types for rules engine. And then you would see the action down here. Uh, unfortunately I don't have any, but, uh, you would see the actions that were taken down here in the activity feed. It'll tell you exactly what we did for the account.

Rabah Rahil (20:50):

Okay. So this would be where the chronology of actions would take place is on, in this audit log

Ilya Baklanov (20:55):

Period. We'll, we'll eventually bring clear information about errors and about conditions that were not met. So you might have questions, why isn't the rule working for this headset asset or this companion or this ad? Well, you'll be able to go into activity log and see what condition expected to have, like ROE has being less than one, and what value we actually observed for this particular ad set at that particular time when we ran the, the rule evaluation that will help people and troubleshoot why the rule has done something or why the rule hasn't done a particular action.

Rabah Rahil (21:34):

Okay. So I'm tracking, so I get my rule set up, and then I would look into the audit logs just to peek in to make sure that these rules fired or didn't fire kind of thing.

Ilya Baklanov (21:50):

Yes. Um, and then come back to the original question, yes, we will have eventually notifications, emails, slack aggregated or individual ones. We just didn't want to get to the top list of all the spammers in the world by sending you a couple hundred emails every day for you, like each individual notification. So we want to get feedback like, what do people want more? Do they want aggregated ones per day? Do they want individual ones? Because we're also launching lighthouse soon, which I think is not a secret anymore. And some amount of like daily reporting will end up in the lighthouse as well. So the actions taken by the rules engine as a daily report will show up there. Maybe that will serve like 90% of the need for notifications.

Rabah Rahil (22:35):

Yeah, I just, from an outside looking in, like if I'm putting my non triple oil hat on, it would be really cool to just have the choice to be notified or not about this rule because some rules, like I don't really care about, but like scaler rules, I kind of care about where it's like, if you're spending more of my money, just let me know that you're spending more of my money. Yeah. Um, you know what I'm saying? Or even in that case, stop-loss rules of like, Hey, your ads turned off. Like I think that having giving the consumer the choice might be a pretty interesting way to mitigate some of that over overcommunication of that. But that makes sense. That's, that's awesome. Uh,

Ilya Baklanov (23:11):

We're not spending your money, we're bringing you more sales

Rabah Rahil (23:14):

<laugh>. Yes. By spending more of my money. It's so like, it's give and take. So

Ilya Baklanov (23:21):

Another way to reduce anxiety, anxiety when you launch your first rules is simulation. And this is something we're gonna like show. Can

Rabah Rahil (23:30):

We show that? Yeah. Let's plan

Ilya Baklanov (23:32):

In the ui, right? Right now it's not available in the production version. Okay? It's, uh, it's, we're testing ourselves right now. But the idea is that you would not be able to turn on triple strategy or any rule without running a simulation first. So we'll force you to go through simulation, which what, what it does is it actually runs that rule for you in the background, but it just doesn't execute any actions. So if the rule wants to stop your ads, it will show you, we've checked 200 of your ads, 10 of them would have actually been stopped, and these are like the top three as an example of what we have done. And then you can decide, yep, that matched my expectation. Or you might say, no, I want to go back to editing the rule and maybe adjust as further. So you, you, that significantly reduces the feedback loop for you as a customer. You don't have to set up a rule in a wait a whole day for a rule to execute to figure out what would have happened. You can simulate the actions immediately and adjust the filters, adjust the conditions to where you want them to be, and then launch the rule.

Rabah Rahil (24:40):

Okay. Amazing. Let's plow through a couple questions here. Will this be uploaded to the YouTube so brands can share with their agencies? Of course. Amazing. Oh, look at that. The upload, I'm sure I know who that upload came from, but <laugh>, um, that's done and dusted. Let's see. And then we talked about the alert. So I do think a Slack integration would be pretty amazing, where you could just have a Slack channel in your company and we'll pump into that. Um, but yeah, so notifications are coming, they're in the pipeline, they're kind of a one a priority. We just need to understand how to tactfully deliver them. For now, everything will be chronicled in that audits log. And Logan, how'd you get to the audits log again? So you go to the Yeah,

Logan Brown (25:19):

In the, in the dropdown. It's right here at the top.

Rabah Rahil (25:21):

Amazing. So this is the rule engine and then audits log, and then you'll be able to see a chronology of all the rules that have run what they did in the ads ad set or campaigns that they affected. Fantastic. And then Marissa, John, this is a great question. Yep. So do we have, so this was kind of going back to my lookback window of like, okay, what, what um, time are you looking back onto evaluate the formula? So if that, say you want to have a pixel row as of X, how long back are you looking? And right now we have today in 24 hours, and I believe Ilia said longer look backs are coming, um, when we launch tomorrow. So there could be three days, seven day, 14 day. We'll get you all those details. But this is interesting. Do we have any revival rules or, um, when, so I used to play around Facebook rules back in the day and we called this the, um, the zombie rule where you would want to kind of revive that dead person. Um, is that a rule that you have to create? Do we have that in the Triple L strategy? What are your thoughts here?

Logan Brown (26:29):

Yeah, I think it's a great, it's great. It's not in the strategy or a template right now. Uh, something we could build in if we get enough requests for it. Um, but to Marissa's question, it's something you need to set up if, if you want to account for it. So if you feel like you have, um, a long window of potentially delayed attribution, um, and you wanna account for it, uh, do you wanna do it together, Robin? I mean, I can show you.

Rabah Rahil (26:54):

Yeah, that'll be fun. Amazing.

Logan Brown (26:56):

Cool. So let's just say we wanna set the, uh, let's say it's a revival rule for an ad specifically that we've turned off. Um, we would set it at the ad level and maybe every single day what we wanna do is look at the end of the day and say like, okay, like at 9:00 PM I want you to look back at my ads, um, and I wanna look at the, uh, ad level.

Rabah Rahil (27:18):

And remember the schedule is based off of the Shopify store's time zone.

Ilya Baklanov (27:23):

Yeah. And the tip there tells that, uh, as well, so that if you just point and you'll see what time zone it is.

Logan Brown (27:33):

Yeah. And so, uh, one thing we're gonna hit here is we have a little bit of a UI bug, like Ilia mentioned, there are, uh, longer look back periods, but um, what I would suggest is something like last seven days. So what we're trying to do here is show a condition that says, check my ads for all ads. Where the spend in I would choose last seven days is greater than let's just, uh, use the formula for fun. Let's say it's greater than, um, two times my, um, add and pixel a O v. Okay. Also in the last seven days or something. Okay. So all we're saying here is that check any ads that at least have ad spend in the last week that, um, the spend is greater than two of my AOVs. Okay. So it spends some money and let's say my ad pixel c p a, um, or yeah, let's say let's use pixel revis in in the last 24 hours Okay.

(28:37)
To revival. So we're trying to look back to see like orders that maybe have came in today Okay. Is greater then. And let's just say this is actually one x your account level pixel roaz in the last 24 hours. So we're looking back at ads that had some spend historically in the last 24 hours. The ROAZ has now jumped above the account. Roaz, you could even set this if you want. Like let's say that you're willing to take, um, a one roaz on any ad, turn off formula mode and just make it one, make it 2.5 if you want. Right. Whatever your threshold is there. And then what we wanna do is we want to start the ad. So that will turn it back on.

Rabah Rahil (29:34):

So, okay, take me through this again slowly. So start at the top.

Logan Brown (29:38):

Yep.

Rabah Rahil (29:39):

Okay. So I'm saying I don't want a template, I want to only impact ads. We'll call this the, the Mercer John rule. It'll be, what'd

Logan Brown (29:49):

You call Oh, the Mercer John rule. Great.

Rabah Rahil (29:51):

Yeah. Yeah. The uh, and then the description, just revive ads that are performing whatever. We don't have to put something there. And then I'm gonna run this ad, or I'm gonna run this rule on all my ads one time per day during the Shopify time zone at 9:00 PM every day. Yep. Okay. Cool. I'm, I'm tracking that so far.

Logan Brown (30:15):

Yep. Uh, but okay, let's just use, uh, for nomenclature's sake, yes. The schedule is how often we're running the conditions and the rule, but we're checking the conditions at this time and we will run the rule if true.

Rabah Rahil (30:29):

Okay. That confused me ish. You used you.

Logan Brown (30:33):

So these are conditions

Rabah Rahil (30:34):

No, no, no. I'm tracking. So, but the schedule is once per day at 9:00 PM and the Shopify store time zone every day.

Logan Brown (30:42):

Yep. We'll check these conditions if true, we take the action you proposed.

Rabah Rahil (30:48):

Okay. Tracking. So I have the setup now, and so now I'm saying at 9:00 PM every day, if the following is true, do the thing.

Logan Brown (30:57):

Yep.

Rabah Rahil (30:58):

Okay, cool. And now we're gonna say if the Facebook add in the last 24 hours is greater than two x to add pixel a o v. So to, could you use like numbers there or something for me? So if the ad has spent a hundred dollars in the last 24 hours and that a hundred dollars is greater than the pixel a o v, so talk me through that. But what you kinda like an example?

Logan Brown (31:27):

Yeah. Lemme, lemme talk you through this and I'll even simplify it. Amazing. Again, I know this is confusing cuz what it's on my screen is not what's coming outta my mouth, but we're having a a UI bug right now. There's other options available here. So, uh, the example here is that Marissa wants to turn an ad on that's been turned off because of delayed attribution. Okay. Because the ad is off, it likely has not spent any money in the last 24 hours. Got it. So what we need to do is look back at a further length of time. Got it. So what I would do here is say if my ad spend in the last seven days Yep. Is greater than a number, this was arbitrary. Yep. So let's turn off the formula and just say, just gimme any ad that's spent at least a penny. Okay? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it had some spend in the last seven days.

Rabah Rahil (32:14):

Yep.

Logan Brown (32:16):

And it's roaz in the last 24 hours. That's the zombie. The zombie just came back to life today. Yep. It just stood up that

Rabah Rahil (32:25):

Grave.

Logan Brown (32:25):

If it stands up out of its grave, I'm not gonna shoot it down. I'm just gonna go hang out with it for a while. I want you to turn it back on <laugh>.

Rabah Rahil (32:33):

It's like the Bill Murray playing golf.

Logan Brown (32:35):

Yeah, there you go.

Rabah Rahil (32:37):

You guys got the zombie land reference? Nobody. No. Come on, come on. Love it.

Logan Brown (32:41):

Sa

Rabah Rahil (32:41):

Uh, okay, so I'm tracking now. So that made it, why did that make it simpler? Because you toggled off the formula.

Logan Brown (32:48):

Yeah. I, because

Rabah Rahil (32:49):

Now this, this makes sense to me. Now this is really easy for me to comprehend.

Logan Brown (32:53):

Sure. Yeah. The formula mode is maybe more of an advanced feature. It just allows you to create dynamic variables in the case that you don't have a hard and true number you're willing to, uh, I guess aim for at all times. Okay. And I wanted to show it off.

Rabah Rahil (33:09):

I love it, Saunder. You're way smarter than me. Say this back to me, how this rule works,

Logan Brown (33:17):

But I can't hear you.

Rabah Rahil (33:19):

I get that. He's he's, he's too smart. He's so smart. He can't even work his on mute button. I mean, unbelievable.

Saunder Schroeder (33:25):

This. Now we're, now we're good now we're good. <laugh>. I said geez, raa Okay. <laugh>, scroll up.

Logan Brown (33:32):

Oh yeah, you're your, your question is covering the rule. I realized

Rabah Rahil (33:36):

<laugh>. Oh sorry.

Logan Brown (33:38):

Beep. Yeah, minimize that. There we go. All

Saunder Schroeder (33:40):

Right. Okay. So this is our revived zombie ad. This is our Bill Murray playing golf. Yes. Yes. I got the reference, Rob. Thank you. Um, okay, so if an ad has spent less than a penny in the last 24 hours, right Logan? Good on the first part,

Logan Brown (34:00):

Except remember it's not what's on the screen, but what's seven days

Saunder Schroeder (34:03):

Last?

Logan Brown (34:04):

Seven days. Last seven days. Yep.

Saunder Schroeder (34:05):

Yep. Then and if the ad then let's say has a pixel ROAS greater than two and a half. So let's say a lagged purchase comes in from someone who clicked on an ad eight days ago and then converted that could potentially raise the ROAS up. Is that like a fair explanation?

Logan Brown (34:24):

Yep.

Saunder Schroeder (34:25):

Okay, then turn my, turn my ad back on and run this sucker. Yep. Let's go play some golf.

Logan Brown (34:34):

The other thing too that you could do here instead of roaz, if that's throwing anyone off, you could say that um, pixel purchases in the last 24 hours is greater than one. Just in case the ad had not spent any money, there's not gonna be roaz there. Right? So, hey, if a pixel purchase comes in in the last 24 hours on an ad that's off and it's spent some money, turn it back on.

Saunder Schroeder (35:03):

I will, I did, I did run through this with, well my meeting before this call. We had one of those based on a click date and event date toggle, um, which was like pretty cool to see and add. I mean it was hard to actually find when they, they did click on it, but, um, yeah, based on the click date, they actually had some more conversions come through as we continue to expand it, which led to a much higher row as, which was Yeah. Cool to see. So I can see where this rule will definitely apply.

Rabah Rahil (35:35):

That's really interesting. So the pic pixel purchases and first party data is all gonna be defaulted to click date or event date? No,

Logan Brown (35:45):

It's, it's event date.

Rabah Rahil (35:46):

Oh, it is event date. Okay, cool. Interesting. Love it.

Saunder Schroeder (35:50):

But with the attribution window being infinite though, it still will be able to collect it when it comes through.

Rabah Rahil (35:57):

Yes. But the attribution windows are relevant here the last 24 hours or that the look back window is what's gonna matter for the rule.

Saunder Schroeder (36:05):

True.

Rabah Rahil (36:05):

Correct. I I get what you're saying though. We're saying same, same bit different. And for people that don't know, um, the click date and event date, basically all that means is when do we give credit to the action whether that action happened on the click or when, when that person clicked on the ad and maybe they didn't buy for two or three days. If it's click date, um, attribution, you're gonna say day zero when they clicked on the ad that that day gets the credit versus if it's event date, if they didn't buy till day three, if it's event, that's when the actual action took place, then we're gonna credit that. So that's the differentiation between event date and click date just to uh, make sure everybody's following along. Um, okay. Marissa is back. And then I guess does everybody, you can obviously just ping in the chat or thumbs up or whatever. Is everybody still tracking? Cuz I know this is, this is a bit nebulous. Kind of like if you haven't played around. I I've played around with rules before. This is still like pretty, uh, high level stuff, so, okay. Oh look, we're getting thumbs up coming through. Amazing. Um, oh, Marissa is back. The zombie rule was not enough. Are you ready Logan? She has another question for you.

Logan Brown (37:14):

Yeah. Yeah.

Rabah Rahil (37:15):

Amazing. You're doing great by the way, professor. Professor.

Logan Brown (37:18):

Oh, I hope so. Gosh,

Rabah Rahil (37:20):

It's a good moniker. You do have that like professor vibe. We need to get, I was thinking about maybe taking like the, uh, Mr. Rogers bent and doing like a series on like ads, but like Mr. Rogers style, walk in, take the coat off, hang it.

Logan Brown (37:33):

You can gimme a custom tweed jacket and you can put triple whale liner in it with

Rabah Rahil (37:37):

Whales in it. I know. Yeah. I think I'm gonna get something like that for the whales. Not, not the tweet style. We have to get a little fancy. It's, it's upscale, it's, you know, black tie. Um, okay, Marissa, first of all Marissa, thank you for these. So the t-shirts are actually the event T-shirts. Here's some spilled tea for joining the webinar. They're gonna be tuxedo t-shirts, they're gonna be amazing. Oh

Logan Brown (37:56):

My

Rabah Rahil (37:56):

Goodness. Um, the whale are gonna, of course, of course. You have to be here February 1st and second. Austin, Texas. It'll drop next week for you folks. Um, okay, cool. Sorry, back to the task at hand, Marissa. John has another phenomenal question here. Marissa, hit me up in the chat. Roba at Triple Whale. Let's get you some merch. These are great questions. Okay, so Facebook rules have always been iffy on actually performing the way intended heard same, uh, experience as well. Have you guys had any hiccups with these rules where they didn't function properly? We all have anxiety behind rules and want to know the confidence level you have in these rules. Very, very fair question. I I had the same anxiety when I used Facebook rules. Um, so where are we at with that? How confident are we? Um, what's the kind of stress test there, guys?

Logan Brown (38:39):

Yeah, well I think it's a very valid question and concern. So let me walk through what we've done so far and kind of the work that we're putting in and then maybe, um, propose something that might help you ease your way into this. So, um, for the last two and a half, three weeks we've been running the rules kind of silently in the background with alpha users. So we've had them running rules in real time, in real life against their real Facebook ads. Um, checking to make sure it's doing what we told them it would do. Checking to make sure that nothing bad is happening, um, so far to date. Like the rules are running the way they were intended, what what you've told the computer to do is what the rules are doing. So that's a, that's a positive sign. Um, but sure there's things you could potentially do to like, um, I don't wanna say ruin, mess up, those are the wrong words, but it could be like, not intended actions, right?

(39:31)
I, I thought I was telling the machine to do this, but it did this instead. And that's, uh, like, you know, the human versus, uh, the UI or the ux, right? So, um, I think getting customer service involved with, with our team and stuff, we can review some of your ads, check them. Ilia and I are available or yeah, if we, if you want someone to like review your rule and make sure the intended action is going to take place prior to launching it, that's great. Uh, we, we will, and second that we're gonna do is a simulate option. Uh, it's actually not gonna be an option <laugh>, where before you would click save and launch, we're going to force a simulation to happen. And so you can actually see in real time, if you ran this rule right now, this is what we would do.

(40:16)
And it's gonna give you three to four examples of what campaigns, ad sets or ads would've been, uh, uh, changed, budget paused, started, those kind of things. So you can make sure that what you wrote, uh, would've actually been, uh, actioned on via your intention. So that's coming, uh, tomorrow that'll be there so you can, um, run your simulation. Um, and then the other thing I would suggest is if like, you can set filters, so on my screen, um, you can set a filter and let's say the attribute was like a campaign name and contains and test, you could set up a test campaign potentially if you're really nervous about it, set up a test campaign, put some budget behind it and some of your other ads, um, and, and do some test runs, like turning it on and off, right? Instead of scaling your budget up a zillion x, um, just turn some ads on. Turn some ads off, um, increased budget by a dollar, right? Not 20% or 50%. And just make sure that like you feel confident in the actions that we're taking, um, at a low risk to your account and brand. Um, that, that's probably, those are probably the three things I would suggest right now is lean on the team, use the simulation, um, and run some small low barrier tests. But if Ilia has any other suggestions, uh, or things to, to add, please do

Ilya Baklanov (41:45):

Not suggestions, but rather we like give us feedback because we want to take that feedback and then share with all the customers within the ui. We'll be showing warnings where we think you might be making a rule that will have unintended consequences. For example, if you have a rule that runs every 15 minutes and it doesn't check ROEs at all, but it based on some very simple condition, increases your budget, we will warn you, we will not stop you from launching the rule because it's up to you what you wanna launch. But we might warn you that this rule will potentially update your budget multiple times a day. Or we might say that you are comparing like, is my CPM greater than $10? Then increased budget by 20%. So as long as your CPM is greater than $10, will every 15 minutes increase your budget and quickly get you to a million dollar ad asset? Like we will try to warn our customers about those most obvious, uh, mistakes in the rules. They can have unintended consequences, but we won't stop you from creating rules that might have, uh, multiple actions per day.

Rabah Rahil (43:10):

Amazing. So lean on the team, do the simulation. What was the other third one, Logan? Oh, try something lower risk where it's like a dollar a day or something like that just to make sure you get a feel for 'em. Um, and then we'll also be starting next week, um, ocean hours, um, hosted by this very lovely, beautiful blonde gentleman, um, and Alejandro. So that might be something that you can pop on. It'll just be an hour webinar where people can come on and ask Saunder and Alejandro two of our, um, awesome account specialists, any questions and then they can help you skill up and double check your rules as well. Um, so definitely lean on the team, definitely run the simulation and if you do feel a little sketched out, um, don't, you know, bet the house and say scale 50% every 15 minutes, maybe, uh, kind of start slow and then you can lean into that to make sure that we earn your trust. Um, and then as Ilia proposed as well, um, our customer success portal, um, chat on the site, um, ping us on Twitter is whatever in NARAL Nation. If you're in there, um, let us know kind of what you guys are feeling, how you can, we can make this better for you. Cuz ultimately at the end of the day, we're building for you all. So we want to make sure that we build the things that you're gonna use and love.

Logan Brown (44:24):

Oh, Raba, that's a really great point you just brought up that a customer had mentioned to me in a meeting earlier today. Um, let's get together with Kevin and maybe make a channel for rules and then anyone here in Nawal Nation and Slack, like, let's get together and if you have questions about a specific rule you're setting up or you want feedback before setting it live, um, let's lean on the community and lean on our internal team to support you there as well. Um, and I think there's a lot of shared learnings that'll come outta that too. You can share your templates with other people via screenshots and things.

Rabah Rahil (44:55):

Yeah, we can have a little fun little internal contest as well where we can have, um, rules and people can vote. And at the end of the week we'll send out some, some cool swag to the, the winning rule that everybody loves. So yes, we'll get everything in Nawa Nation, we'll send out a recap to everybody, um, with this video as well. And then also, um, letting people know that we have a new channel in NARAL Nation. Um, fantastic. Great answers, great answers. Um, amazing. All

Ilya Baklanov (45:20):

Right, if, if Morgan, if you refresh the page now, you'll see that the, this time, time, back time look back windows, they have been updated to be correct. Once again,

Logan Brown (45:29):

Did you just write some code on the floor? What

Ilya Baklanov (45:32):

Are we pushing?

Rabah Rahil (45:33):

Let's

Ilya Baklanov (45:34):

Go push it to life.

Rabah Rahil (45:35):

Uh, let's go.

Logan Brown (45:37):

I like it. Yes.

Rabah Rahil (45:39):

Okay, man. Oh man. Now, now we're cooking maze. Yeah. Okay. This makes a ton more sense to me, especially on those that like kind of zombie the delayed attribution than Marissa John rule. Um, okay, this is amazing. Um, speaking of Marissa, John, she has another question for us. What time period for rules do you suggest what timeframe has been, has worked best for current triple whalers? Great question.

Logan Brown (46:09):

Yeah. Yeah, that, um, all right, let me go through a couple of scenarios because, um, it's a loaded question. Meaning everyone kind of has their own subjective opinions about what's best for them, their business account, et cetera. Um, in the triple oil strategy, I think almost all of them are like once per day, um, with the assumption that like you're setting a threshold around ad spend and a and a dedicated roaz or C P A that you're willing to accept. And so it's almost like every day, check my ads once just to make sure that no ad is spending above this amount and the roaz is less than X amount, right? Um, but on the flip side, let's say that you wanted to make sure that any ad or ad set or campaign that's winning, uh, by your standards specific spend or roas C p a goal, whatever that may be, that you start increasing budget on it immediately.

(47:11)
So if you run it every hour or 15 minutes, that increases your chance of ensuring that you're adjusting the budget at the time of which, uh, like the first time of which your ad or ad set or campaign have met your goal. So if you just wanna check it every 15 minutes at which time the, the ad said as hit a hundred dollars spin and is operating at one and a half row as, and you want to keep boosting that budget up, um, you know, that's, that's probably gonna be the fastest way to ensure that you catch it at the right time of day. Um, but it's, it's kind of subjective and maybe Sandra can give some thoughts too, since he was using rules at his agency, but everyone's kind of doing a little different thing in our alpha alpha test.

Saunder Schroeder (47:58):

Um, for me, rules are always challenging, I think, to previous points. So we always tried it and we, I felt like we could never get them to work. It would always like scale too quickly and then performance would drop and then performance would eventually catch up. So I like how we have things here where you can build, you can build for that. So I think our rules engine is going to be a lot better and actually impact the bottom line a lot better with first party data. So I'll hold my opinion based on my past experience there. I'm optimistic about triple L, how about that?

Logan Brown (48:37):

Yeah, were, were, were you, were you running once a day or how often did you try to execute a rule or how often would you suggest our customers try to execute a rule?

Saunder Schroeder (48:46):

Oh man. I mean, I feel like with our data sync it, I mean, I would like to see it. Well, here's the problem. You, when it comes to increasing budget, you don't ever want to do it more than 20% per day on Facebook, right? And so, so given that caveat, you know, I probably wouldn't go beyond that initially, but I think, yeah, so I guess I'd probably be looking at the same day in a lot of cases, running on like a 24 hour window. I do like that zombie one though. I think that's like a super creative one that I never would've thought about. So I don't know, honestly, I would need to play around with it more. So if anyone wants to book some time with me and we can play around and see what happens, that would be fun. So <laugh>, that would be a <laugh>

Logan Brown (49:34):

Going out, some experiments like Frankenstein's, like, hey,

Saunder Schroeder (49:39):

Exactly,

Rabah Rahil (49:39):

Amazing. We're gonna, we're gonna win you back. Saunder, <laugh>, uh, that's amazing, this guy. Unbelievable this one.

Saunder Schroeder (49:46):

Hey, I'm always gonna be honest, right?

Rabah Rahil (49:48):

And that's what we want from you, except when you say silly shit like that. But anyways, now I'm just kidding.

Saunder Schroeder (49:53):

I press million. Logan, I'm ve actually very optimistic about this based on

Logan Brown (49:57):

We did, we did, we did build the, uh, strategy with, with his feedback in mind. So I think I feel confident about the strategy.

Rabah Rahil (50:04):

Yeah, no, I'm just teasing. I, I totally agree. I think that this is, this is gonna be, for me personally, why this is gonna be way more powerful than what Facebook had was, um, one, I do believe that this is gonna be way more reliable. The second thing is, uh, I think N C C P A is gonna be incredible, so being able to actually target off of new customer CPA is gonna be incredible. Um, blended roaz or MER is also something that's gonna be really interesting as well. Um, so I think having those unique metrics is pretty, pretty interesting there. Um, and to Logan's point as well, I think there's a certain aspect of, um, you definitely want to jump in and like try these, but also make sure that you do it at a level of risk that you feel comfortable with. Um, not to say these things are gonna break or blow up or anything like that, it's just that these are complex. And so, um, kind of go through those Logan Order of Operations, definitely lean on the team if you have any questions at all, um, make sure you're gonna run the simulations that Ilio is talking about, and then possibly, you know, start a little bit less aggressive than you probably normally would, just to make sure that you understand the, the kind of knock on effects and how these things get a, get a real good handling on that. But, um, it's pretty incredible and it's free, which

Saunder Schroeder (51:18):

Is crazy. I have, I have, I have a, I have a hypothetical based on what you just said, Roba since,

Rabah Rahil (51:22):

Yep. Hit me.

Saunder Schroeder (51:23):

When it, when it comes to like customer acquisition, mers kind of like that lagging indicator, right? Roaz is kind of your leading indicator. So could you create a new customer roaz rule on the front end and then more or less have a, a check and balance on the back end with your mer? Does that make sense? So let's say I want my MER to be,

Rabah Rahil (51:49):

Say that again. Yeah, I think it made sense, but say it slower for me, for the people in the

Saunder Schroeder (51:53):

Front. Yeah. So let's say I want my new customer Roaz to be at a 1.75 on the front end. Okay? I don't want my MER to be above 20%. Is there, is there a way you could create a rule that kind of keeps those in balance together?

Logan Brown (52:14):

Uh, not with MER, but the account roaz. This, this is the account, uh, what's I, I'm sorry, I'm botching this, the blended ROS there is here, it's the inverse of mer, but you could set up a condition that says if my blended ROAS of my store is less than, uh, let's disable the formula. If it, if the account blended roaz in the last 72 hours is like greater than uh, four, right? Which is a 20% mer Yeah, 25% mer, um, then you could increase the budget.

Saunder Schroeder (52:50):

Got it. Okay.

Logan Brown (52:52):

Right. So it's like, so it's like, hey, this, if this, if, if my campaigns are operating at a certain level, um, but let's say the entire account is doing at a, let's say like Facebook is likely your largest spend, uh, category, um, then I, I think you could, you could lean on the stores mer roaz as the inverse. Okay.

Rabah Rahil (53:14):

Yeah.

Logan Brown (53:15):

Just scale the campaigns up.

Saunder Schroeder (53:17):

I like that. I like that a lot. Okay.

Rabah Rahil (53:21):

Boom. Okay,

Logan Brown (53:22):

This's good. And then I think the one thing I wanna mention, I know we just got like kind of in a, like a scary dark mode for a minute, <laugh>. Um, but like, I really think tomorrow for everyone listening, I, I think the a stop loss and, and my, and one of my other favorites is the leaky bucket. Um, so before I go into the details of it, I think these will be extremely impactful if you're continuing to throw new ads into the mix, which you should be. I think my subjective opinion, if you're continuing to throw new ads in the mix, it's really frustrating and annoying to have to go into the account and check how well their performance is. You likely know in your head, you just gotta put it into the rules and we can help you build that out from your head to paper.

(54:05)
But you know that if that ad is operating at less than one roaz and it's already spent 250 bucks, you probably don't wanna waste any more money on it. So let us cut it off for you, which if you have the budget set at the ad set level or even the campaign, Facebook will then reallocate their budget to your other ads that are operating above your desired threshold. And so I think like, that's it. I'm not saying it's not risky. We would, we could turn ads off that you don't want turned off, but I think if you set it up the right way and you can even use our template, I think it's gonna save you a lot of time and money just right out of the gate.

Saunder Schroeder (54:43):

I love that.

Ilya Baklanov (54:44):

Ready

Rabah Rahil (54:44):

To, um,

Saunder Schroeder (54:45):

Let me, uh, Rob, let me clarify something <laugh>.

Rabah Rahil (54:48):

Yeah, absolutely.

Saunder Schroeder (54:49):

I said I could never get rules to work. What I was throwing that out, thinking with the end in mind of you can't, I could never get rules as like a set it and forget it <laugh> and get an account to skill, which I don't think is what rules are necessarily intended to do. They're intended to supplement. So from a supplement standpoint, I, you can get them definitely to work. So I just wanted to throw that, uh, that caveat out there, <laugh> and what you see. I was really thinking with the end in mind, so that that's where I was thinking.

Rabah Rahil (55:20):

You can just hear the back ping on this guy. Unbelievable. This one, this guy. Uh, good thing. You're good looking. Can I throw two more questions out, you guys? I know we're kind of pushed up against time. Sure. Okay. Amazing. This is from Dan Schutt. Can a rule, can a rule be created to trigger based on increased traffic from a certain location? Interesting.

Ilya Baklanov (55:42):

Uh, not today. I wonder. Okay. If, if Dan, if you could explain, uh, in the chat the use case and what action Yeah, the use case, what would be the reason for traffic to be, to increase from a certain country and what kind of action you would like, uh, to take. And from there we can think about like how would we implement that? That's an interesting idea. Yeah,

Rabah Rahil (56:03):

That's a great idea.

Ilya Baklanov (56:09):

Great. Do you wanna go to the next question meanwhile, or?

Rabah Rahil (56:11):

Yep. Okay. Dan. Okay. Yeah, Dan pop into the chat if you can and we'll revisit that. But that's a, a really interesting question and I also love to know the use case there. Um, okay. Mert Khan, let's see. Oh yeah, absolutely. This will be something that, um, Logan and Saunder will be plowing through and we'll add it to, uh, t w probably, what do you think, next week or something? It should be pretty straightforward. Uh, I think Logan's almost finished with the actual internal knowledge base that we'll then, um, make external for everybody to read. And then, um, Saunder and Logan can go through some rules, especially once the simulation's out and things of that nature. So we'll have it really tidied up. Um, so what we can commit to probably videos up next week.

Logan Brown (56:56):

Yeah, I, I'll have a video ready for tomorrow.

Rabah Rahil (56:58):

Oh, even better.

Logan Brown (56:59):

I just don't know if it'll be like super detailed in the, in the, in the sense of if I'm your media buyer, this is exactly what I would do, but it will show you exactly how to use the rules engine and what each element means. So a lot of things we covered today, but in a video that's a little more concise that you can just kind of walk through whenever you need it.

Rabah Rahil (57:19):

Amazing. Um, yeah, too long, didn't read we'll absolutely not only have that tutorial style, um, video, but we'll also go in depth in terms of some rules that we found as we kind of connect with the community more and understand in our nation. And then we can service those in t w. Um, but it's a very, very good question. Okay. Tim Sobi has one for you. Can you set upper or lower limits? I e scale budget up or down to X or Y

Logan Brown (57:48):

Something we talked about? Um, it's, uh, not yet, but yeah. Roadmap. I'd like to get, uh, feedback from other customers on like how important this may be. Um, but yeah, definitely something we d we discussed like, you know, increased 20% until it reaches a thousand dollars or something.

Rabah Rahil (58:08):

Got it. Amazing. Yeah, that makes sense. Um, Marissa, thank you for all the thoughtful questions. I'm sorry you have to bounce. I hope you enjoy your hoodie. It's amazingly soft, aren't they? They're amazing. Um, okay, we'll circle back to Dan and then we'll sign off cause I know we're two minutes over. I wanna be respectful of everyone's time. Okay. So Dan says this is, uh, regarding the, uh, geographic rule. Sure. We see certain organic events like forum discussions, third party blog posts, et cetera, increasing traffic for a period of time for a certain part of the world would like to move global ad spend around based on that. Interesting. That's pretty sophisticated. That's pretty cool. Um,

Logan Brown (58:46):

That's, I mean, for now, I think you could do that if, um, just unfortunately you have to do some math on your own, but understand your Shopify's time zone and let's say that you're spending money in Australia, like do the math for what those time zones are and set a rule that says check at 12:00 AM which is actually like what, 12:00 PM there. And then you could set, um, a campaign filter here, uh, here. And so like if the customer, if you're, uh, is it Tim or Dan? Dan, if you're, um, let's say you're running those ads with specific, um, names like a nomenclature in the campaign name and you could set that here. Um, yeah, and I think, I think that would,

Ilya Baklanov (59:32):

What you're describing is that the act action is possible with some filtering. It's the trigger that's not available here because the trigger will be an increase in sessions or unique visitors from organic channels in particular, geo, geo geography, like in particular countries like that is not available right now. Something interesting, uh, like I can't promise that we will quickly act on it because we'll probably want more customers to request this. We don't have anything geography geo related right now in the platform, right? So that just makes it more complicated to implement by a very interesting use case. I agree you something took out for, yeah,

Rabah Rahil (01:00:13):

I definitely think that the lo-fi kind of implementation of this would be what Logan's talking about, where you're kind of like day partying and you're playing on those time zones where you're, you're kind of rolling your spend with the people. Um, so you can do some sort of proxy hack here. But, um, to Elia's point, we aren't bringing in any demographics right now in terms of, uh, gender or, uh, location, et cetera, et cetera. So there I, there are layers to this thing. Um, but, uh, okay, we're four minutes over. If you guys wanna sneak in for another question, do it. Dan, Tim, Mercon, Marissa, the whole crew. I really appreciate all of the really, really thoughtful questions. I know this was kind of a, a heady webinar, but I really wanted to get, uh, Logan and Ilia on here because they are just incredible at explaining very, very complex things.

(01:01:03)
And uh, to Ilias point and Logan's point, this isn't a replacement for you. The media buyer, your brands media buyer, et cetera, it's an augmentation. So it's in addition to, to free up whether that be more time, whether that be just more brain space, whether that be, um, just anything so we can help you make more money, have your ads run for better, more efficient, more effective. And so I think finding this nice little rule set will, will really start to be a boon for a lot of accounts, especially if you start to have some sort of, so just anecdotally for Triple Whale, um, we cut all of our ads off on Friday night, um, Friday night Pacific time, um, because nobody buys SAS products on the weekends. Um, and so that's something that would be really useful for us, where we can actually use this and say, Hey, all the ads on these days, and then you fire him back up on Monday.

(01:01:54)
So there's all sorts of little weird interesting use cases. Um, Ilia had somebody he was working with, uh, and Ozzy, um, from down under, but he was running US accounts. And so this is something that will also help enable that person. So lots of awesome awesomeness to come, but definitely look, be on the lookout for the channel in NARAL Nation. Get in there. Um, if you do have any questions, definitely, uh, like I said, do that little Logan three step process of definitely lean on the team as heavily as you need to. We'll even go and check the rules for you to make sure, make sure you run the simulation. And then if you do have any anxiety or reticence, uh, make sure you probably start a little bit, uh, less aggressive and kind of work your way up to, um, betting the, the house and scaling 20% every 15 minutes. Oh, and then notifications are coming those that's top of mind. So let us know where you wanna see those. I think a Slack channel makes a ton of sense. Um, but um, we'll, we'll figure out the best implementation of that. Um, with that being said, I'm six over, um, Ilia closing remarks.

Ilya Baklanov (01:02:55):

Definitely start using it, but as mentioned multiple times, start slow. So start immediately, but start slow and then as you gain confidence you'll see that it can really save you lots of time.

Rabah Rahil (01:03:09):

Incredible. Logan, what you got for us?

Logan Brown (01:03:13):

Thanks for being here. Happy holidays. Let's go, uh, save you some time so you can spend more time with your family.

Rabah Rahil (01:03:19):

Amazing Ole Miss Bowl game. What do you got going on there?

Logan Brown (01:03:23):

28th, 9:00 PM Eastern Texas Tech in Houston.

Rabah Rahil (01:03:27):

Ew. Gross. You guys did have a bad season. Oh my gosh, thanks. Unbelievable. You're you, you were off to the hottest start.

Logan Brown (01:03:34):

Listen, I'm not really worried about that. I'm going to New York for New Year's. That's what I'm focused on. Amazing. In a difference place, you know,

Rabah Rahil (01:03:41):

As, as you should. Are you doing the Times Square thing? What are you doing?

Logan Brown (01:03:45):

Uh, fish in Madison Square Garden. <laugh>. Oh my gosh, I

Rabah Rahil (01:03:49):

Forgot. Are they gonna do the whale thing?

Logan Brown (01:03:52):

They do a different thing every year. That was just their shick last time. Oh my

Rabah Rahil (01:03:54):

Gosh. Oh my gosh. I should have bought that print. That print was so cool. Maybe I'll, maybe I'll still get it for the office. Yeah,

Logan Brown (01:04:00):

Buy for Christmas. Thanks.

Rabah Rahil (01:04:01):

Maybe I'll still get it for the office. Oh really? <laugh>. I forgot about that. Maybe we will. Maybe a little, little year on bonus. Yes, son. Saunder, I saw you go out to your cabin. It was super fun. You got a new truck. What else? What else is life is just good over there to tell, give the people your sign off. Did

Logan Brown (01:04:18):

You get a Ford Raptor?

Rabah Rahil (01:04:20):

I got a fan. What'd you get? A fancy gmc. What was it? It's like a spaceship. This thing. It's unbelievable. Doesn't

Saunder Schroeder (01:04:25):

Matter. I'm I'm just over here backpedaling for the rest of the day, so.

Rabah Rahil (01:04:28):

Yes, yes. You're you.

Saunder Schroeder (01:04:29):

I'll just backpedaling that's my sign on.

Rabah Rahil (01:04:32):

Is there, is there a stop loss rule on, on Saunder's? Comments against rules? How do I, how do I, how do I implement that? This

Saunder Schroeder (01:04:38):

Guy? We don't have, we don't have a threshold yet. We're,

Rabah Rahil (01:04:42):

What's the look back? 15 minutes. Can I, can I, can I mute this out? What's going on here? Um, alright folks, thanks so much. I know we're eight minutes over, but uh, like I said, this is one of my favorite parts of the week. Uh, we'll see you guys next Wednesday for sure. And then do we have any, cause I know holidays are coming up, so we'll do the 21st. Um, and then we probably will do the 28th, but we'll kind of fill it out to see if you guys wanna do that. Cause I know that's gonna be, um, bumping up against the, uh, Christmas holiday as well as New Year. So as always, we'll keep you guys informed. Um, make sure to go check out, like I said, the D two C uh, gift guide. If you're not on well mail, subscribe, triple.com/whale mail.

(01:05:19)
Um, we're on the Twitters, we're on the LinkedIns. Hit us up anywhere. And then, um, if you're not in Nawh Nation, definitely definitely get in there. Um, I dropped a link. Just go to the optimizations tab and then down there is the join link. Um, Ilia Logan, uh, really appreciate you guys helping spread the gospel here. I think this is gonna be a really big, big uh, just improvement for people's lives in general to understand and kind of wrangle these rules and then start to deploy them in a meaningful manner. So really amazing work there. And then Saunder always appreciate it. Hair looks fab as always. So we'll see you guys later. That's another well webinar in the books. Um, and then we will also send this out for post hoc hot consumption. Um, so thanks again everybody. We really appreciate you. Bye. Thank you.

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Transcription

Rabah Rahil (00:01):

Okay. Interesting. I like, I like the old Miss Lamp, though. It looks good. And you got the whale. Look at, I, I got my whale Wednesday stuff. Slack City over there doesn't have it. You have your whale tail on. All right, folks, we're live, we're back. It's Wednesday. You know what time it is. It's whale webinar Wednesday. And then boy, ho, ho, ho. Look at this one. The baby blues. All right, let's go. He's Helia. Logan Saunder. Um, thank you guys for joining us and everybody thank you for tuning in. This is one of my favorite, uh, things I get to do every week. Um, a little bit of housekeeping. We just dropped our holiday DDC gift guide, so if you do need some interesting, uh, gifts to you by, there's a fantastic one. I'll drop this link in the chat. Um, and then have you guys got all your holiday shopping? Are you guys big, big holiday shoppers?

Logan Brown (00:51):

I still need, if he's on here, I need to get in touch with you. I can't remember the name of your brand, but you had the dog portraits. Oh, I need one.

Rabah Rahil (00:58):

The German one. The, it was a P word, but I can't remember. Ri or I'll have to go back. We can go back and watch the, it's not poopy, but, uh, we'll have to go watch the, the old, uh, I

Logan Brown (01:10):

Guess I could've watched the recording, couldn't I?

Rabah Rahil (01:12):

Yeah, I think it's in there, but We'll, it, we'll get, we'll get you figured out. Um,

Logan Brown (01:18):

Is it Pat on Canvas? Was it Pet on Canvas? Is that what it's called?

Rabah Rahil (01:22):

No, that might be one of 'em. This was a German brand, but it was really cool. It was like, uh, I can't remember the other thing that there was, uh, crown and Paws is very similar. Same, same but different. Like these really cool, sophisticated portraits are your pets. It was gorgeous. It was a German site, but, um, they were super awesome. It was really cool. We did it there in our, now

Saunder Schroeder (01:41):

All their competitors, you know. Yeah.

Rabah Rahil (01:44):

Out. We'll bleep that out. We'll bleep that out. Well, I, I think that's only state side, to be fair. So I'm sure they penetrate, uh, Europe. But are you all, are you all purchased up for the holiday season? Saunder, no gift giving you, you,

Saunder Schroeder (01:56):

I, I have a, an awesome wife who just tackles it all and

Rabah Rahil (02:00):

Amazing.

Saunder Schroeder (02:01):

And she says, what would you do without me? And I say, I would do the Christmas shopping. So, hey,

Rabah Rahil (02:08):

Zinc, let us just light, light up that Amex. But anyhow, go check out the DDC gift guide. If you like it, share it. Make my bosses happy. That'll be fantastic. And then we also, I don't believe they're on the store yet, but we just got some, where are they? Check these out.

Saunder Schroeder (02:25):

Oh, I'll wear that. I'll wear that The next Wednesday webinar. Right.

Logan Brown (02:29):

Who, who made that for you?

Rabah Rahil (02:31):

Um, uh, our merch person, actually, this was outside of our merch person. This isn't, this isn't actually a Gary, uh, Gary joint. This is, um, uh, we have two merch people. Gary does our super, super sophisticated stuff. And then, um, l has another merch person, but it's, they're gorgeous. They're actually really, really amazing. It's like a hundred degrees here in Texas, so they're not super applicable. But, um, Saunder was just out at his cabin and it was snowing and it was beautiful. So you could use them there. And then it's a little cold where you're at Logan, right? It's Or tempera. Yeah.

Logan Brown (02:59):

It's kinda crappy right now. It's been rainy in forties.

Rabah Rahil (03:01):

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you can, you can throw a beanie there. Uh, Ilia and I will use it more so for, uh, the hipster look than actual utility. But hey, you know, as you do, as you do, you get the weathers. But enough rambling. You have been working on something with Ilia for a really long time now. It's kind of a evolution of what Facebook offered. Uh, there's a couple other people in this space that kind of do it, but we are actually doing an automated rules engine off of first party data. Pretty incredible. Um, there's some really cool things in there in terms of new customer, c p a blended roas. A lot of really interesting metrics that you can jump off of. But, um, before I steal your thunder, you wanna jump into an account, share some screens, and then we'll do kind of the debut of the automated rules engine. This will be pushed to your accounts live tomorrow. Do we have a time, or is it just kind of tomorrow ish?

Ilya Baklanov (03:54):

We, we know that when it's, uh, launching tomorrow, I would recommend just like checking it out around like 10:11 AM uh, Eastern time.

Rabah Rahil (04:01):

Beautiful. And we'll ping everybody too, when it's all live in your accounts. But, um, the coolest part is it's free. So this, there's no upcharge or anything if you, you do have to have the pixel, obviously, because it's built off of first party data. So if you don't have a pixel, it's a great time to get a pixel. Um, and you're getting all this free stuff. So without further ado, Logan Ilia, take it away.

Logan Brown (04:21):

Yeah, yeah. So Ilia, I, um, I'm happy to, to kind of share my screen. I'd love, if you don't mind. Sure. Would you be willing to tell the, the, the crew here, like, what do you need this for? Why do you want it, and what's everybody gonna get excited about tomorrow when it launches?

Ilya Baklanov (04:34):

Sure. Thank you. Um, we've built the rules engine so that we can help our customers, be it a shop owner, a marketer working at a shop, or an agency that's helping the shop perform, save time, save money, and just grow more profitably.

Rabah Rahil (04:53):

Amazing.

Ilya Baklanov (04:55):

And we're doing that without taking away from them anything that is creative, anything that requires thinking through and coming up with interesting ideas. We're only automating the most boring and mundane steps. Checking your performance day after day, hour after an hour at night, during the holidays, during the weekends, and just making sure that your ads are performing at the correct level. And if not, adjusting the budgets up and down, turning ads, sets, campaigns on and off. So again, we're automating the simplest things and letting you have more time to focus on the creative work, on strategies, on building out products, figuring out the customer base and and so on.

Logan Brown (05:42):

Yeah, it's awesome. So shall we give it a look,

Ilya Baklanov (05:46):

<laugh>? Yeah. Let's see.

Rabah Rahil (05:47):

Unveil it. Let's go.

Logan Brown (05:49):

Sweet. All right, cool. So let's see what's possible.

Rabah Rahil (05:53):

And then while you guys are loading that up, is there any housekeeping stuff? Do you, because I think I was reading in the internal KB that somebody has to re-up their Facebook permissions to allow for, um, turning on and off of assets, right?

Logan Brown (06:10):

Yeah. There's just like an ads management permission we need, but all of that will kinda be taken care of in app, so

Rabah Rahil (06:16):

Okay. It'll pop up and yell at somebody.

Logan Brown (06:17):

You'll be prompted. Yeah. Yeah. So

Rabah Rahil (06:19):

Amazing, amazing.

Logan Brown (06:20):

Hopefully make it easy just to reconnect and, and, uh, start firing away.

Rabah Rahil (06:24):

Amazing. Um,

Logan Brown (06:26):

Yeah. Yeah. So, great. So, um, we're in kind of the house account right now, so ignore some of the, the numbers, but I wanna use this as a way to, um, show off new features like this. So, um,

Rabah Rahil (06:37):

Sorry to cut you off before you get rolling. I just wanna, if you guys have any questions about anything, just toss 'em into the chat or the question box and we can address you guys, uh, in real time because this, ultimately, this demo is for you guys to understand how to leverage these, um, as useful as possible. And so you might, guys, you guys all might think of some weird edge cases or something like that, so happy to interject. So feel free, this isn't a lecture, it is a two-way conversation with us and you all. So feel free to jump in there. Sorry, Logan, I didn't, I just wanna sneak that out. Pro

Ilya Baklanov (07:08):

Professor lecture by Professor Brown.

Rabah Rahil (07:10):

Yeah, he does look like a professor. I can just see the, I, I can see the, uh, arm patch or the elbow patches on the, on the jacket. Do jacket, elbow patches stuff. Yeah, I knew it. I knew it.

Logan Brown (07:22):

I'm waspy, right Robin? That's, um, <laugh>. My third grade teacher told my mom I was gonna be a teacher one day, believe it or not. Um, here I am teaching the world

Rabah Rahil (07:33):

<laugh>. Exactly.

Logan Brown (07:34):

All right, so tomorrow when you log in to Trip Whale, um, hopefully somewhere around mid-afternoon, you'll see a rules engine icon when you go to pixel ads. Um, it's only available for Facebook right now. Um, if you're interested in other platforms, like let us know, probably taking a running, uh, tally and vote on that, uh, to see where the interest lies outside of Facebook. Uh, but clicking on this icon, um, the first thing you're gonna see tomorrow as a new customer coming into this is the Triple L strategy. Uh, you can see here that the, uh, we have some saved rules that I'll show you guys in a minute. Um, and then you'll be able to create your own roof from rule from scratch if you would like. Uh, the first thing I'd like to talk about is like the Triple L strategy, what it is, who that's for, um, and what might entice you to kind of go that route.

(08:21)
Um, so when you hop in, you can click the view button to see the list of rules that we have under this strategy. So there's a couple of layers here that we've built in the triple whale strategy. We have rules, right? So, uh, that may be set at a specific, uh, level campaign, add, set or ad. We have filters and conditions and then actions. So how often do you want us to look for the conditions you've set? What are the conditions you'd like to set? And then if those conditions are true, what action would you like us to take? So we know that for some of our customers, this is kind of daunting, right? It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, what are we doing? Um, but we also feel very adamant about the power of rules and, and what it can do for you. Um, specifically just saving you time.

(09:11)
Like it's something that Ilia just mentioned, but like, we think we can really save you a lot of time from the mundane task that you would typically do, trying to review how well your campaigns, ads sets, or ads are performing at any given time of day. Um, I specifically spoke to a customer last week that was waking up in the middle of the night every two hours just to check their ads. Um, and although I love that we could do the to for them, right? And let them sleep through the night and like power through the next day with some creative juice. Um, so when you get to the trip oil strategy, it's filled up with a list of rules that we've created. Um, this is to help you, like if you don't know where to start, review these, turn it on and like get going.

(09:53)
Um, we've vetted this by Saunder and a couple of other marketers as well, just to make sure that this would suit the needs of the majority. Um, but you can click through on any of these rules to actually see how we set it up. Um, I will probably spare you each one of these right now cause I'm gonna create a new rule from scratch, show you guys some of the templates we have available, which every rule that you'll see in the strategy is available as an individual template. So if you like one of them, but you don't want to turn the whole strategy on, you can create a new rule, choose the template, and then customize it as you wish. It's a great way to get started. Um, so just be sure to check this out tomorrow first before you go create a rule. See what we did here, see what you like. Um, if you like the entire strategy, turn it on and get going. Otherwise, um, you'll, you can follow the directions I'm about to go through now, which is creating your own rule to start with. Um, so let's kick things off.

Rabah Rahil (10:47):

So a, oh, let me just put a stake in the ground there. Any questions yet? Or is everybody still tracking? Cuz this is a bit, uh, highfalutin. There's, there's some cognitive load here. And so just to recap rules, a compilation of rules is what we're calling a strategy, Logan.

Logan Brown (11:03):

Yeah. And the reason I didn't wanna get too deep on a strategy is that right now all we have available is the triple whale strategy. Yep. Uh, that's the only thing that's able to toggle on and off. You can't create a strategy as a customer at this point, but Oh,

Rabah Rahil (11:17):

Good, good, good to know. Okay. That's where I was missing it.

Logan Brown (11:20):

But in general, like when you click this dropdown and you have a subset of rules here that are toggled on, that is your strategy of sorts. We're just not wrapping it up into a name. But, um, yeah, think of all rules that you have toggled on as your, your ad buying strategy or your efficiency strategy. Um, so yeah, anyway. Amazing. I think we do have one question, right?

Rabah Rahil (11:42):

Oh,

Logan Brown (11:43):

Somebody just came in. Oh, Saunder Saunder. Will this be uploaded? Yes,

Rabah Rahil (11:49):

Of course. I always put these on the YouTubes. Okay, cool. And then so amazing. Keep going. This is great. I love it. You're doing awesome.

Logan Brown (11:57):

Yeah. All right. So as I mentioned before, let's say you like a rule that's wrapped up in the Trip whale strategy, but you wanna isolate it. It's like, oh, I love that, but I don't want all the rest of them. You can specifically come in here and choose a template. One of my favorites is the ad stop loss, so I'll choose that. What happens immediately is that everything gets prepopulated for you. So this rules like pretty much ready to go outta the box except for the name. So I just need to name this bras badass up loss rule, okay?

Rabah Rahil (12:29):

<laugh>.

Logan Brown (12:30):

And then I need to choose a time for it to run. Okay? So me specifically, um, I'll keep it simple and just use like once per day. Um, let's do it every day at two o'clock. And I want it to run every single day. Okay? So, so far what we've done is we've created, we've used a template. The template is defined the level that we want the action to be taken. So we want you to turn off ads or turn on ads, uh, based on the conditions I've set below. And I want you to do it, I want you to check all these conditions once per day at 2:00 PM This is based on your shop's time zone, okay? Uh, so keep that simple. And then if I wanna do an additional filter, say only look at campaign names that contain t o f, because my top of funnel is the only campaign that I care about running a rule against, I could do that.

(13:30)
Um, now we get into conditions, okay? This is where everybodys pay attention. What we've created here, um, is a subset of dropdowns that explain a story around what thresholds you're willing to operate off of. Okay? So I'll, I'll reiterate what's listed here in layman's terms. So if my ads spend is greater than three x, my a o v, if my a o V is a hundred dollars, I'm saying, is my ad spend greater than $300 today? And is my ads ROAS 75% less, less than 75% of my account roas, right? So if it's below the, the account roas, we're saying that this ad is likely pulling you down, right? It's dragging you down. It's, it's lowering the, the, the, the average. So we want to stop it. So that's where the action comes into, into play start, or pause. So we've paused that one. Um, now that was kind of a mouthful. So Raba, what questions do you have right outta the gate now that I've described conditions?

Rabah Rahil (14:41):

So I love this so far, so I'm just trying to go up. So if you scroll up here, I just wanna have this order of operations. So the first thing is I wanted to, so you

Logan Brown (14:49):

Really choose a level.

Rabah Rahil (14:51):

So the first, so the first thing is if I'm gonna use a template or not? Yeah. Um, so you're using the ad stop-loss template. The syncing chip, by the way, these names are sensational. I'm very, very happy with them, by the way, <laugh>. Um, and then I'm gonna choose the level at which it acts. So whether that be the campaign level, the ad set level, or the ad level.

Logan Brown (15:11):

Yep.

Rabah Rahil (15:12):

So right now I'm saying I want this template to be used so it prefills all the stuff below. And then the level I want it to act on is the ad level. The next thing is I have a really snazzy title, so I can identify it in there. The next thing I would do, so, and then the descriptor, I'm guessing is just gonna be some subtext under that title if you decided to use it to explain it.

Logan Brown (15:37):

Yeah, like a good use case here. Um, let's say that someone on this call is a brand owner, but you have an agency, uh, you're trusting your agency to set up rules like this to maybe make everyone's life efficient. Um, they could write in descriptions here, like the layman's terms of what this is and what, what they're doing. And that way if the brand owner hops in, they can just read the description rather than trying to, uh, keep up with all the conditions and filters.

Rabah Rahil (16:00):

So that's something that else that I wanted to touch on, but just scroll up there. Okay, cool. And then you have your schedule. Do you recommend any scheduling? Like do you recommend the 24 hour? Do you recommend f because I think what we ratchet down to 15 minutes is the most frequent update, correct?

Logan Brown (16:20):

Yeah. So for something like a stop loss, um, I think it depends on how fast you're scaling your spend. Um, if you're a really big brand and you're spending a lot of money and throwing ads in the mix, very often you could run this every 15 minutes. Um, and you could say, listen, check my ads every 15 minutes. If I have an ad that's spent three x my a o v, I'll explain in a minute how we can maybe even dumb this, not dumb it down, but make it more simplified. Um, but if it's spent like three x my o v, let's say $300

Rabah Rahil (16:53):

Yep,

Logan Brown (16:54):

And it's operating below at 75% of my account, roaz shut it down.

Rabah Rahil (17:03):

And that is only look like, what's the look back window? It is using,

Logan Brown (17:09):

Well, we're using triple attribution event date. So it's

Rabah Rahil (17:13):

Unlimit. No, I'm saying like, is that just for that day? Is that for the last 72 hours? Is that like

Logan Brown (17:19):

You can decide here.

Rabah Rahil (17:20):

Okay, so today means what

Logan Brown (17:24):

This means, uh, let's say that I chose, I did choose 2:00 PM or earlier. I chose 2:00 PM Okay, say once per day at 2:00 PM this would be defined at today would equal 12:01 AM to 2:00 PM today in your shops time zone shops time zone.

Rabah Rahil (17:43):

Yep. In the shops time zone. So the ad account time zone is irrelevant. It's the Shopify time zone that matters.

Logan Brown (17:49):

Yeah. Yes. But if I did every 15 minutes, it's gonna run at 12:15 AM as well. So today only means 1201 to 12:15 AM at that point.

Rabah Rahil (17:59):

Okay. And then that is what it's checking it against.

Logan Brown (18:04):

Uh, that's what this condition is checking it against, right? So if I put today or last 24 hours, that's what it's checking it against.

Rabah Rahil (18:12):

Okay? So you only have either the today, which would be 1201 to whatever your schedule is, and then that time zone, or you would have the last 24 hours. And

Ilya Baklanov (18:25):

Now we, I I, I think we have more times is just a presentation back here right now that, uh, showed up this morning, okay. Where we, we allow you longer timeframes, not just today, not just 24 hours. I think it was up to 90 days, various

Rabah Rahil (18:39):

Questions. Okay. That, that's kind of what I was wondering is like sometimes the, there's not gonna be, or that tide of a feedback loop isn't necessarily completely representative of the performance of that ad, per se, if that makes sense. Where it's like it's better to have maybe a three day look back or something. And if something's blowing up in three days, then we want to kill it. Or if something's blowing up in four to eight hours, there's there versus like, if I'm checking every 15 minutes, by definition you might, you know, turn things off or you're not giving enough time for the wine to breathe, right? You need, you need to let it, let it marinate a little bit to make sure that, okay, that makes a ton of sense to me. And then the other question, an Adrian, uh, fantastic question by the way, Adrian, if you want some swag, hit me up. Cause that's a really great question. How are people notified about when a rule is triggered or not? Cause when you use Facebook rules, we'll actually send you, uh, not only a notification in your ad account, but also an email to the e uh, email assigned to that ad account saying, Hey, um, Logan, your stop loss rule or x y, z rule triggered, here's, here's the action we took from that thing. Um, what type of notification systems do we have built in? Do we, we don't have a Slack integration yet, do we?

Logan Brown (19:55):

Well, triple whales integrated with Slack. Uh, this feature specifically is we're, we're just, we're, we are working on it. So, uh, we're trying to figure out exactly what kind of notification options we would allow the customers to have. Um, but yes, we, we are working on a reporting mechanism that's more like proactive. But for today, you would want to go to the audit logs.

Rabah Rahil (20:18):

Oh, I didn't even know we had audit logs. Let's go

Logan Brown (20:21):

<laugh>. Yeah, so this account, okay, like I said, this is a, this is tough because we're not actively, uh, taking actions on this, but you would be taken here to our activity feed, and then in the activity feed we have activity types for rules engine. And then you would see the action down here. Uh, unfortunately I don't have any, but, uh, you would see the actions that were taken down here in the activity feed. It'll tell you exactly what we did for the account.

Rabah Rahil (20:50):

Okay. So this would be where the chronology of actions would take place is on, in this audit log

Ilya Baklanov (20:55):

Period. We'll, we'll eventually bring clear information about errors and about conditions that were not met. So you might have questions, why isn't the rule working for this headset asset or this companion or this ad? Well, you'll be able to go into activity log and see what condition expected to have, like ROE has being less than one, and what value we actually observed for this particular ad set at that particular time when we ran the, the rule evaluation that will help people and troubleshoot why the rule has done something or why the rule hasn't done a particular action.

Rabah Rahil (21:34):

Okay. So I'm tracking, so I get my rule set up, and then I would look into the audit logs just to peek in to make sure that these rules fired or didn't fire kind of thing.

Ilya Baklanov (21:50):

Yes. Um, and then come back to the original question, yes, we will have eventually notifications, emails, slack aggregated or individual ones. We just didn't want to get to the top list of all the spammers in the world by sending you a couple hundred emails every day for you, like each individual notification. So we want to get feedback like, what do people want more? Do they want aggregated ones per day? Do they want individual ones? Because we're also launching lighthouse soon, which I think is not a secret anymore. And some amount of like daily reporting will end up in the lighthouse as well. So the actions taken by the rules engine as a daily report will show up there. Maybe that will serve like 90% of the need for notifications.

Rabah Rahil (22:35):

Yeah, I just, from an outside looking in, like if I'm putting my non triple oil hat on, it would be really cool to just have the choice to be notified or not about this rule because some rules, like I don't really care about, but like scaler rules, I kind of care about where it's like, if you're spending more of my money, just let me know that you're spending more of my money. Yeah. Um, you know what I'm saying? Or even in that case, stop-loss rules of like, Hey, your ads turned off. Like I think that having giving the consumer the choice might be a pretty interesting way to mitigate some of that over overcommunication of that. But that makes sense. That's, that's awesome. Uh,

Ilya Baklanov (23:11):

We're not spending your money, we're bringing you more sales

Rabah Rahil (23:14):

<laugh>. Yes. By spending more of my money. It's so like, it's give and take. So

Ilya Baklanov (23:21):

Another way to reduce anxiety, anxiety when you launch your first rules is simulation. And this is something we're gonna like show. Can

Rabah Rahil (23:30):

We show that? Yeah. Let's plan

Ilya Baklanov (23:32):

In the ui, right? Right now it's not available in the production version. Okay? It's, uh, it's, we're testing ourselves right now. But the idea is that you would not be able to turn on triple strategy or any rule without running a simulation first. So we'll force you to go through simulation, which what, what it does is it actually runs that rule for you in the background, but it just doesn't execute any actions. So if the rule wants to stop your ads, it will show you, we've checked 200 of your ads, 10 of them would have actually been stopped, and these are like the top three as an example of what we have done. And then you can decide, yep, that matched my expectation. Or you might say, no, I want to go back to editing the rule and maybe adjust as further. So you, you, that significantly reduces the feedback loop for you as a customer. You don't have to set up a rule in a wait a whole day for a rule to execute to figure out what would have happened. You can simulate the actions immediately and adjust the filters, adjust the conditions to where you want them to be, and then launch the rule.

Rabah Rahil (24:40):

Okay. Amazing. Let's plow through a couple questions here. Will this be uploaded to the YouTube so brands can share with their agencies? Of course. Amazing. Oh, look at that. The upload, I'm sure I know who that upload came from, but <laugh>, um, that's done and dusted. Let's see. And then we talked about the alert. So I do think a Slack integration would be pretty amazing, where you could just have a Slack channel in your company and we'll pump into that. Um, but yeah, so notifications are coming, they're in the pipeline, they're kind of a one a priority. We just need to understand how to tactfully deliver them. For now, everything will be chronicled in that audits log. And Logan, how'd you get to the audits log again? So you go to the Yeah,

Logan Brown (25:19):

In the, in the dropdown. It's right here at the top.

Rabah Rahil (25:21):

Amazing. So this is the rule engine and then audits log, and then you'll be able to see a chronology of all the rules that have run what they did in the ads ad set or campaigns that they affected. Fantastic. And then Marissa, John, this is a great question. Yep. So do we have, so this was kind of going back to my lookback window of like, okay, what, what um, time are you looking back onto evaluate the formula? So if that, say you want to have a pixel row as of X, how long back are you looking? And right now we have today in 24 hours, and I believe Ilia said longer look backs are coming, um, when we launch tomorrow. So there could be three days, seven day, 14 day. We'll get you all those details. But this is interesting. Do we have any revival rules or, um, when, so I used to play around Facebook rules back in the day and we called this the, um, the zombie rule where you would want to kind of revive that dead person. Um, is that a rule that you have to create? Do we have that in the Triple L strategy? What are your thoughts here?

Logan Brown (26:29):

Yeah, I think it's a great, it's great. It's not in the strategy or a template right now. Uh, something we could build in if we get enough requests for it. Um, but to Marissa's question, it's something you need to set up if, if you want to account for it. So if you feel like you have, um, a long window of potentially delayed attribution, um, and you wanna account for it, uh, do you wanna do it together, Robin? I mean, I can show you.

Rabah Rahil (26:54):

Yeah, that'll be fun. Amazing.

Logan Brown (26:56):

Cool. So let's just say we wanna set the, uh, let's say it's a revival rule for an ad specifically that we've turned off. Um, we would set it at the ad level and maybe every single day what we wanna do is look at the end of the day and say like, okay, like at 9:00 PM I want you to look back at my ads, um, and I wanna look at the, uh, ad level.

Rabah Rahil (27:18):

And remember the schedule is based off of the Shopify store's time zone.

Ilya Baklanov (27:23):

Yeah. And the tip there tells that, uh, as well, so that if you just point and you'll see what time zone it is.

Logan Brown (27:33):

Yeah. And so, uh, one thing we're gonna hit here is we have a little bit of a UI bug, like Ilia mentioned, there are, uh, longer look back periods, but um, what I would suggest is something like last seven days. So what we're trying to do here is show a condition that says, check my ads for all ads. Where the spend in I would choose last seven days is greater than let's just, uh, use the formula for fun. Let's say it's greater than, um, two times my, um, add and pixel a O v. Okay. Also in the last seven days or something. Okay. So all we're saying here is that check any ads that at least have ad spend in the last week that, um, the spend is greater than two of my AOVs. Okay. So it spends some money and let's say my ad pixel c p a, um, or yeah, let's say let's use pixel revis in in the last 24 hours Okay.

(28:37)
To revival. So we're trying to look back to see like orders that maybe have came in today Okay. Is greater then. And let's just say this is actually one x your account level pixel roaz in the last 24 hours. So we're looking back at ads that had some spend historically in the last 24 hours. The ROAZ has now jumped above the account. Roaz, you could even set this if you want. Like let's say that you're willing to take, um, a one roaz on any ad, turn off formula mode and just make it one, make it 2.5 if you want. Right. Whatever your threshold is there. And then what we wanna do is we want to start the ad. So that will turn it back on.

Rabah Rahil (29:34):

So, okay, take me through this again slowly. So start at the top.

Logan Brown (29:38):

Yep.

Rabah Rahil (29:39):

Okay. So I'm saying I don't want a template, I want to only impact ads. We'll call this the, the Mercer John rule. It'll be, what'd

Logan Brown (29:49):

You call Oh, the Mercer John rule. Great.

Rabah Rahil (29:51):

Yeah. Yeah. The uh, and then the description, just revive ads that are performing whatever. We don't have to put something there. And then I'm gonna run this ad, or I'm gonna run this rule on all my ads one time per day during the Shopify time zone at 9:00 PM every day. Yep. Okay. Cool. I'm, I'm tracking that so far.

Logan Brown (30:15):

Yep. Uh, but okay, let's just use, uh, for nomenclature's sake, yes. The schedule is how often we're running the conditions and the rule, but we're checking the conditions at this time and we will run the rule if true.

Rabah Rahil (30:29):

Okay. That confused me ish. You used you.

Logan Brown (30:33):

So these are conditions

Rabah Rahil (30:34):

No, no, no. I'm tracking. So, but the schedule is once per day at 9:00 PM and the Shopify store time zone every day.

Logan Brown (30:42):

Yep. We'll check these conditions if true, we take the action you proposed.

Rabah Rahil (30:48):

Okay. Tracking. So I have the setup now, and so now I'm saying at 9:00 PM every day, if the following is true, do the thing.

Logan Brown (30:57):

Yep.

Rabah Rahil (30:58):

Okay, cool. And now we're gonna say if the Facebook add in the last 24 hours is greater than two x to add pixel a o v. So to, could you use like numbers there or something for me? So if the ad has spent a hundred dollars in the last 24 hours and that a hundred dollars is greater than the pixel a o v, so talk me through that. But what you kinda like an example?

Logan Brown (31:27):

Yeah. Lemme, lemme talk you through this and I'll even simplify it. Amazing. Again, I know this is confusing cuz what it's on my screen is not what's coming outta my mouth, but we're having a a UI bug right now. There's other options available here. So, uh, the example here is that Marissa wants to turn an ad on that's been turned off because of delayed attribution. Okay. Because the ad is off, it likely has not spent any money in the last 24 hours. Got it. So what we need to do is look back at a further length of time. Got it. So what I would do here is say if my ad spend in the last seven days Yep. Is greater than a number, this was arbitrary. Yep. So let's turn off the formula and just say, just gimme any ad that's spent at least a penny. Okay? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it had some spend in the last seven days.

Rabah Rahil (32:14):

Yep.

Logan Brown (32:16):

And it's roaz in the last 24 hours. That's the zombie. The zombie just came back to life today. Yep. It just stood up that

Rabah Rahil (32:25):

Grave.

Logan Brown (32:25):

If it stands up out of its grave, I'm not gonna shoot it down. I'm just gonna go hang out with it for a while. I want you to turn it back on <laugh>.

Rabah Rahil (32:33):

It's like the Bill Murray playing golf.

Logan Brown (32:35):

Yeah, there you go.

Rabah Rahil (32:37):

You guys got the zombie land reference? Nobody. No. Come on, come on. Love it.

Logan Brown (32:41):

Sa

Rabah Rahil (32:41):

Uh, okay, so I'm tracking now. So that made it, why did that make it simpler? Because you toggled off the formula.

Logan Brown (32:48):

Yeah. I, because

Rabah Rahil (32:49):

Now this, this makes sense to me. Now this is really easy for me to comprehend.

Logan Brown (32:53):

Sure. Yeah. The formula mode is maybe more of an advanced feature. It just allows you to create dynamic variables in the case that you don't have a hard and true number you're willing to, uh, I guess aim for at all times. Okay. And I wanted to show it off.

Rabah Rahil (33:09):

I love it, Saunder. You're way smarter than me. Say this back to me, how this rule works,

Logan Brown (33:17):

But I can't hear you.

Rabah Rahil (33:19):

I get that. He's he's, he's too smart. He's so smart. He can't even work his on mute button. I mean, unbelievable.

Saunder Schroeder (33:25):

This. Now we're, now we're good now we're good. <laugh>. I said geez, raa Okay. <laugh>, scroll up.

Logan Brown (33:32):

Oh yeah, you're your, your question is covering the rule. I realized

Rabah Rahil (33:36):

<laugh>. Oh sorry.

Logan Brown (33:38):

Beep. Yeah, minimize that. There we go. All

Saunder Schroeder (33:40):

Right. Okay. So this is our revived zombie ad. This is our Bill Murray playing golf. Yes. Yes. I got the reference, Rob. Thank you. Um, okay, so if an ad has spent less than a penny in the last 24 hours, right Logan? Good on the first part,

Logan Brown (34:00):

Except remember it's not what's on the screen, but what's seven days

Saunder Schroeder (34:03):

Last?

Logan Brown (34:04):

Seven days. Last seven days. Yep.

Saunder Schroeder (34:05):

Yep. Then and if the ad then let's say has a pixel ROAS greater than two and a half. So let's say a lagged purchase comes in from someone who clicked on an ad eight days ago and then converted that could potentially raise the ROAS up. Is that like a fair explanation?

Logan Brown (34:24):

Yep.

Saunder Schroeder (34:25):

Okay, then turn my, turn my ad back on and run this sucker. Yep. Let's go play some golf.

Logan Brown (34:34):

The other thing too that you could do here instead of roaz, if that's throwing anyone off, you could say that um, pixel purchases in the last 24 hours is greater than one. Just in case the ad had not spent any money, there's not gonna be roaz there. Right? So, hey, if a pixel purchase comes in in the last 24 hours on an ad that's off and it's spent some money, turn it back on.

Saunder Schroeder (35:03):

I will, I did, I did run through this with, well my meeting before this call. We had one of those based on a click date and event date toggle, um, which was like pretty cool to see and add. I mean it was hard to actually find when they, they did click on it, but, um, yeah, based on the click date, they actually had some more conversions come through as we continue to expand it, which led to a much higher row as, which was Yeah. Cool to see. So I can see where this rule will definitely apply.

Rabah Rahil (35:35):

That's really interesting. So the pic pixel purchases and first party data is all gonna be defaulted to click date or event date? No,

Logan Brown (35:45):

It's, it's event date.

Rabah Rahil (35:46):

Oh, it is event date. Okay, cool. Interesting. Love it.

Saunder Schroeder (35:50):

But with the attribution window being infinite though, it still will be able to collect it when it comes through.

Rabah Rahil (35:57):

Yes. But the attribution windows are relevant here the last 24 hours or that the look back window is what's gonna matter for the rule.

Saunder Schroeder (36:05):

True.

Rabah Rahil (36:05):

Correct. I I get what you're saying though. We're saying same, same bit different. And for people that don't know, um, the click date and event date, basically all that means is when do we give credit to the action whether that action happened on the click or when, when that person clicked on the ad and maybe they didn't buy for two or three days. If it's click date, um, attribution, you're gonna say day zero when they clicked on the ad that that day gets the credit versus if it's event date, if they didn't buy till day three, if it's event, that's when the actual action took place, then we're gonna credit that. So that's the differentiation between event date and click date just to uh, make sure everybody's following along. Um, okay. Marissa is back. And then I guess does everybody, you can obviously just ping in the chat or thumbs up or whatever. Is everybody still tracking? Cuz I know this is, this is a bit nebulous. Kind of like if you haven't played around. I I've played around with rules before. This is still like pretty, uh, high level stuff, so, okay. Oh look, we're getting thumbs up coming through. Amazing. Um, oh, Marissa is back. The zombie rule was not enough. Are you ready Logan? She has another question for you.

Logan Brown (37:14):

Yeah. Yeah.

Rabah Rahil (37:15):

Amazing. You're doing great by the way, professor. Professor.

Logan Brown (37:18):

Oh, I hope so. Gosh,

Rabah Rahil (37:20):

It's a good moniker. You do have that like professor vibe. We need to get, I was thinking about maybe taking like the, uh, Mr. Rogers bent and doing like a series on like ads, but like Mr. Rogers style, walk in, take the coat off, hang it.

Logan Brown (37:33):

You can gimme a custom tweed jacket and you can put triple whale liner in it with

Rabah Rahil (37:37):

Whales in it. I know. Yeah. I think I'm gonna get something like that for the whales. Not, not the tweet style. We have to get a little fancy. It's, it's upscale, it's, you know, black tie. Um, okay, Marissa, first of all Marissa, thank you for these. So the t-shirts are actually the event T-shirts. Here's some spilled tea for joining the webinar. They're gonna be tuxedo t-shirts, they're gonna be amazing. Oh

Logan Brown (37:56):

My

Rabah Rahil (37:56):

Goodness. Um, the whale are gonna, of course, of course. You have to be here February 1st and second. Austin, Texas. It'll drop next week for you folks. Um, okay, cool. Sorry, back to the task at hand, Marissa. John has another phenomenal question here. Marissa, hit me up in the chat. Roba at Triple Whale. Let's get you some merch. These are great questions. Okay, so Facebook rules have always been iffy on actually performing the way intended heard same, uh, experience as well. Have you guys had any hiccups with these rules where they didn't function properly? We all have anxiety behind rules and want to know the confidence level you have in these rules. Very, very fair question. I I had the same anxiety when I used Facebook rules. Um, so where are we at with that? How confident are we? Um, what's the kind of stress test there, guys?

Logan Brown (38:39):

Yeah, well I think it's a very valid question and concern. So let me walk through what we've done so far and kind of the work that we're putting in and then maybe, um, propose something that might help you ease your way into this. So, um, for the last two and a half, three weeks we've been running the rules kind of silently in the background with alpha users. So we've had them running rules in real time, in real life against their real Facebook ads. Um, checking to make sure it's doing what we told them it would do. Checking to make sure that nothing bad is happening, um, so far to date. Like the rules are running the way they were intended, what what you've told the computer to do is what the rules are doing. So that's a, that's a positive sign. Um, but sure there's things you could potentially do to like, um, I don't wanna say ruin, mess up, those are the wrong words, but it could be like, not intended actions, right?

(39:31)
I, I thought I was telling the machine to do this, but it did this instead. And that's, uh, like, you know, the human versus, uh, the UI or the ux, right? So, um, I think getting customer service involved with, with our team and stuff, we can review some of your ads, check them. Ilia and I are available or yeah, if we, if you want someone to like review your rule and make sure the intended action is going to take place prior to launching it, that's great. Uh, we, we will, and second that we're gonna do is a simulate option. Uh, it's actually not gonna be an option <laugh>, where before you would click save and launch, we're going to force a simulation to happen. And so you can actually see in real time, if you ran this rule right now, this is what we would do.

(40:16)
And it's gonna give you three to four examples of what campaigns, ad sets or ads would've been, uh, uh, changed, budget paused, started, those kind of things. So you can make sure that what you wrote, uh, would've actually been, uh, actioned on via your intention. So that's coming, uh, tomorrow that'll be there so you can, um, run your simulation. Um, and then the other thing I would suggest is if like, you can set filters, so on my screen, um, you can set a filter and let's say the attribute was like a campaign name and contains and test, you could set up a test campaign potentially if you're really nervous about it, set up a test campaign, put some budget behind it and some of your other ads, um, and, and do some test runs, like turning it on and off, right? Instead of scaling your budget up a zillion x, um, just turn some ads on. Turn some ads off, um, increased budget by a dollar, right? Not 20% or 50%. And just make sure that like you feel confident in the actions that we're taking, um, at a low risk to your account and brand. Um, that, that's probably, those are probably the three things I would suggest right now is lean on the team, use the simulation, um, and run some small low barrier tests. But if Ilia has any other suggestions, uh, or things to, to add, please do

Ilya Baklanov (41:45):

Not suggestions, but rather we like give us feedback because we want to take that feedback and then share with all the customers within the ui. We'll be showing warnings where we think you might be making a rule that will have unintended consequences. For example, if you have a rule that runs every 15 minutes and it doesn't check ROEs at all, but it based on some very simple condition, increases your budget, we will warn you, we will not stop you from launching the rule because it's up to you what you wanna launch. But we might warn you that this rule will potentially update your budget multiple times a day. Or we might say that you are comparing like, is my CPM greater than $10? Then increased budget by 20%. So as long as your CPM is greater than $10, will every 15 minutes increase your budget and quickly get you to a million dollar ad asset? Like we will try to warn our customers about those most obvious, uh, mistakes in the rules. They can have unintended consequences, but we won't stop you from creating rules that might have, uh, multiple actions per day.

Rabah Rahil (43:10):

Amazing. So lean on the team, do the simulation. What was the other third one, Logan? Oh, try something lower risk where it's like a dollar a day or something like that just to make sure you get a feel for 'em. Um, and then we'll also be starting next week, um, ocean hours, um, hosted by this very lovely, beautiful blonde gentleman, um, and Alejandro. So that might be something that you can pop on. It'll just be an hour webinar where people can come on and ask Saunder and Alejandro two of our, um, awesome account specialists, any questions and then they can help you skill up and double check your rules as well. Um, so definitely lean on the team, definitely run the simulation and if you do feel a little sketched out, um, don't, you know, bet the house and say scale 50% every 15 minutes, maybe, uh, kind of start slow and then you can lean into that to make sure that we earn your trust. Um, and then as Ilia proposed as well, um, our customer success portal, um, chat on the site, um, ping us on Twitter is whatever in NARAL Nation. If you're in there, um, let us know kind of what you guys are feeling, how you can, we can make this better for you. Cuz ultimately at the end of the day, we're building for you all. So we want to make sure that we build the things that you're gonna use and love.

Logan Brown (44:24):

Oh, Raba, that's a really great point you just brought up that a customer had mentioned to me in a meeting earlier today. Um, let's get together with Kevin and maybe make a channel for rules and then anyone here in Nawal Nation and Slack, like, let's get together and if you have questions about a specific rule you're setting up or you want feedback before setting it live, um, let's lean on the community and lean on our internal team to support you there as well. Um, and I think there's a lot of shared learnings that'll come outta that too. You can share your templates with other people via screenshots and things.

Rabah Rahil (44:55):

Yeah, we can have a little fun little internal contest as well where we can have, um, rules and people can vote. And at the end of the week we'll send out some, some cool swag to the, the winning rule that everybody loves. So yes, we'll get everything in Nawa Nation, we'll send out a recap to everybody, um, with this video as well. And then also, um, letting people know that we have a new channel in NARAL Nation. Um, fantastic. Great answers, great answers. Um, amazing. All

Ilya Baklanov (45:20):

Right, if, if Morgan, if you refresh the page now, you'll see that the, this time, time, back time look back windows, they have been updated to be correct. Once again,

Logan Brown (45:29):

Did you just write some code on the floor? What

Ilya Baklanov (45:32):

Are we pushing?

Rabah Rahil (45:33):

Let's

Ilya Baklanov (45:34):

Go push it to life.

Rabah Rahil (45:35):

Uh, let's go.

Logan Brown (45:37):

I like it. Yes.

Rabah Rahil (45:39):

Okay, man. Oh man. Now, now we're cooking maze. Yeah. Okay. This makes a ton more sense to me, especially on those that like kind of zombie the delayed attribution than Marissa John rule. Um, okay, this is amazing. Um, speaking of Marissa, John, she has another question for us. What time period for rules do you suggest what timeframe has been, has worked best for current triple whalers? Great question.

Logan Brown (46:09):

Yeah. Yeah, that, um, all right, let me go through a couple of scenarios because, um, it's a loaded question. Meaning everyone kind of has their own subjective opinions about what's best for them, their business account, et cetera. Um, in the triple oil strategy, I think almost all of them are like once per day, um, with the assumption that like you're setting a threshold around ad spend and a and a dedicated roaz or C P A that you're willing to accept. And so it's almost like every day, check my ads once just to make sure that no ad is spending above this amount and the roaz is less than X amount, right? Um, but on the flip side, let's say that you wanted to make sure that any ad or ad set or campaign that's winning, uh, by your standards specific spend or roas C p a goal, whatever that may be, that you start increasing budget on it immediately.

(47:11)
So if you run it every hour or 15 minutes, that increases your chance of ensuring that you're adjusting the budget at the time of which, uh, like the first time of which your ad or ad set or campaign have met your goal. So if you just wanna check it every 15 minutes at which time the, the ad said as hit a hundred dollars spin and is operating at one and a half row as, and you want to keep boosting that budget up, um, you know, that's, that's probably gonna be the fastest way to ensure that you catch it at the right time of day. Um, but it's, it's kind of subjective and maybe Sandra can give some thoughts too, since he was using rules at his agency, but everyone's kind of doing a little different thing in our alpha alpha test.

Saunder Schroeder (47:58):

Um, for me, rules are always challenging, I think, to previous points. So we always tried it and we, I felt like we could never get them to work. It would always like scale too quickly and then performance would drop and then performance would eventually catch up. So I like how we have things here where you can build, you can build for that. So I think our rules engine is going to be a lot better and actually impact the bottom line a lot better with first party data. So I'll hold my opinion based on my past experience there. I'm optimistic about triple L, how about that?

Logan Brown (48:37):

Yeah, were, were, were you, were you running once a day or how often did you try to execute a rule or how often would you suggest our customers try to execute a rule?

Saunder Schroeder (48:46):

Oh man. I mean, I feel like with our data sync it, I mean, I would like to see it. Well, here's the problem. You, when it comes to increasing budget, you don't ever want to do it more than 20% per day on Facebook, right? And so, so given that caveat, you know, I probably wouldn't go beyond that initially, but I think, yeah, so I guess I'd probably be looking at the same day in a lot of cases, running on like a 24 hour window. I do like that zombie one though. I think that's like a super creative one that I never would've thought about. So I don't know, honestly, I would need to play around with it more. So if anyone wants to book some time with me and we can play around and see what happens, that would be fun. So <laugh>, that would be a <laugh>

Logan Brown (49:34):

Going out, some experiments like Frankenstein's, like, hey,

Saunder Schroeder (49:39):

Exactly,

Rabah Rahil (49:39):

Amazing. We're gonna, we're gonna win you back. Saunder, <laugh>, uh, that's amazing, this guy. Unbelievable this one.

Saunder Schroeder (49:46):

Hey, I'm always gonna be honest, right?

Rabah Rahil (49:48):

And that's what we want from you, except when you say silly shit like that. But anyways, now I'm just kidding.

Saunder Schroeder (49:53):

I press million. Logan, I'm ve actually very optimistic about this based on

Logan Brown (49:57):

We did, we did, we did build the, uh, strategy with, with his feedback in mind. So I think I feel confident about the strategy.

Rabah Rahil (50:04):

Yeah, no, I'm just teasing. I, I totally agree. I think that this is, this is gonna be, for me personally, why this is gonna be way more powerful than what Facebook had was, um, one, I do believe that this is gonna be way more reliable. The second thing is, uh, I think N C C P A is gonna be incredible, so being able to actually target off of new customer CPA is gonna be incredible. Um, blended roaz or MER is also something that's gonna be really interesting as well. Um, so I think having those unique metrics is pretty, pretty interesting there. Um, and to Logan's point as well, I think there's a certain aspect of, um, you definitely want to jump in and like try these, but also make sure that you do it at a level of risk that you feel comfortable with. Um, not to say these things are gonna break or blow up or anything like that, it's just that these are complex. And so, um, kind of go through those Logan Order of Operations, definitely lean on the team if you have any questions at all, um, make sure you're gonna run the simulations that Ilio is talking about, and then possibly, you know, start a little bit less aggressive than you probably normally would, just to make sure that you understand the, the kind of knock on effects and how these things get a, get a real good handling on that. But, um, it's pretty incredible and it's free, which

Saunder Schroeder (51:18):

Is crazy. I have, I have, I have a, I have a hypothetical based on what you just said, Roba since,

Rabah Rahil (51:22):

Yep. Hit me.

Saunder Schroeder (51:23):

When it, when it comes to like customer acquisition, mers kind of like that lagging indicator, right? Roaz is kind of your leading indicator. So could you create a new customer roaz rule on the front end and then more or less have a, a check and balance on the back end with your mer? Does that make sense? So let's say I want my MER to be,

Rabah Rahil (51:49):

Say that again. Yeah, I think it made sense, but say it slower for me, for the people in the

Saunder Schroeder (51:53):

Front. Yeah. So let's say I want my new customer Roaz to be at a 1.75 on the front end. Okay? I don't want my MER to be above 20%. Is there, is there a way you could create a rule that kind of keeps those in balance together?

Logan Brown (52:14):

Uh, not with MER, but the account roaz. This, this is the account, uh, what's I, I'm sorry, I'm botching this, the blended ROS there is here, it's the inverse of mer, but you could set up a condition that says if my blended ROAS of my store is less than, uh, let's disable the formula. If it, if the account blended roaz in the last 72 hours is like greater than uh, four, right? Which is a 20% mer Yeah, 25% mer, um, then you could increase the budget.

Saunder Schroeder (52:50):

Got it. Okay.

Logan Brown (52:52):

Right. So it's like, so it's like, hey, this, if this, if, if my campaigns are operating at a certain level, um, but let's say the entire account is doing at a, let's say like Facebook is likely your largest spend, uh, category, um, then I, I think you could, you could lean on the stores mer roaz as the inverse. Okay.

Rabah Rahil (53:14):

Yeah.

Logan Brown (53:15):

Just scale the campaigns up.

Saunder Schroeder (53:17):

I like that. I like that a lot. Okay.

Rabah Rahil (53:21):

Boom. Okay,

Logan Brown (53:22):

This's good. And then I think the one thing I wanna mention, I know we just got like kind of in a, like a scary dark mode for a minute, <laugh>. Um, but like, I really think tomorrow for everyone listening, I, I think the a stop loss and, and my, and one of my other favorites is the leaky bucket. Um, so before I go into the details of it, I think these will be extremely impactful if you're continuing to throw new ads into the mix, which you should be. I think my subjective opinion, if you're continuing to throw new ads in the mix, it's really frustrating and annoying to have to go into the account and check how well their performance is. You likely know in your head, you just gotta put it into the rules and we can help you build that out from your head to paper.

(54:05)
But you know that if that ad is operating at less than one roaz and it's already spent 250 bucks, you probably don't wanna waste any more money on it. So let us cut it off for you, which if you have the budget set at the ad set level or even the campaign, Facebook will then reallocate their budget to your other ads that are operating above your desired threshold. And so I think like, that's it. I'm not saying it's not risky. We would, we could turn ads off that you don't want turned off, but I think if you set it up the right way and you can even use our template, I think it's gonna save you a lot of time and money just right out of the gate.

Saunder Schroeder (54:43):

I love that.

Ilya Baklanov (54:44):

Ready

Rabah Rahil (54:44):

To, um,

Saunder Schroeder (54:45):

Let me, uh, Rob, let me clarify something <laugh>.

Rabah Rahil (54:48):

Yeah, absolutely.

Saunder Schroeder (54:49):

I said I could never get rules to work. What I was throwing that out, thinking with the end in mind of you can't, I could never get rules as like a set it and forget it <laugh> and get an account to skill, which I don't think is what rules are necessarily intended to do. They're intended to supplement. So from a supplement standpoint, I, you can get them definitely to work. So I just wanted to throw that, uh, that caveat out there, <laugh> and what you see. I was really thinking with the end in mind, so that that's where I was thinking.

Rabah Rahil (55:20):

You can just hear the back ping on this guy. Unbelievable. This one, this guy. Uh, good thing. You're good looking. Can I throw two more questions out, you guys? I know we're kind of pushed up against time. Sure. Okay. Amazing. This is from Dan Schutt. Can a rule, can a rule be created to trigger based on increased traffic from a certain location? Interesting.

Ilya Baklanov (55:42):

Uh, not today. I wonder. Okay. If, if Dan, if you could explain, uh, in the chat the use case and what action Yeah, the use case, what would be the reason for traffic to be, to increase from a certain country and what kind of action you would like, uh, to take. And from there we can think about like how would we implement that? That's an interesting idea. Yeah,

Rabah Rahil (56:03):

That's a great idea.

Ilya Baklanov (56:09):

Great. Do you wanna go to the next question meanwhile, or?

Rabah Rahil (56:11):

Yep. Okay. Dan. Okay. Yeah, Dan pop into the chat if you can and we'll revisit that. But that's a, a really interesting question and I also love to know the use case there. Um, okay. Mert Khan, let's see. Oh yeah, absolutely. This will be something that, um, Logan and Saunder will be plowing through and we'll add it to, uh, t w probably, what do you think, next week or something? It should be pretty straightforward. Uh, I think Logan's almost finished with the actual internal knowledge base that we'll then, um, make external for everybody to read. And then, um, Saunder and Logan can go through some rules, especially once the simulation's out and things of that nature. So we'll have it really tidied up. Um, so what we can commit to probably videos up next week.

Logan Brown (56:56):

Yeah, I, I'll have a video ready for tomorrow.

Rabah Rahil (56:58):

Oh, even better.

Logan Brown (56:59):

I just don't know if it'll be like super detailed in the, in the, in the sense of if I'm your media buyer, this is exactly what I would do, but it will show you exactly how to use the rules engine and what each element means. So a lot of things we covered today, but in a video that's a little more concise that you can just kind of walk through whenever you need it.

Rabah Rahil (57:19):

Amazing. Um, yeah, too long, didn't read we'll absolutely not only have that tutorial style, um, video, but we'll also go in depth in terms of some rules that we found as we kind of connect with the community more and understand in our nation. And then we can service those in t w. Um, but it's a very, very good question. Okay. Tim Sobi has one for you. Can you set upper or lower limits? I e scale budget up or down to X or Y

Logan Brown (57:48):

Something we talked about? Um, it's, uh, not yet, but yeah. Roadmap. I'd like to get, uh, feedback from other customers on like how important this may be. Um, but yeah, definitely something we d we discussed like, you know, increased 20% until it reaches a thousand dollars or something.

Rabah Rahil (58:08):

Got it. Amazing. Yeah, that makes sense. Um, Marissa, thank you for all the thoughtful questions. I'm sorry you have to bounce. I hope you enjoy your hoodie. It's amazingly soft, aren't they? They're amazing. Um, okay, we'll circle back to Dan and then we'll sign off cause I know we're two minutes over. I wanna be respectful of everyone's time. Okay. So Dan says this is, uh, regarding the, uh, geographic rule. Sure. We see certain organic events like forum discussions, third party blog posts, et cetera, increasing traffic for a period of time for a certain part of the world would like to move global ad spend around based on that. Interesting. That's pretty sophisticated. That's pretty cool. Um,

Logan Brown (58:46):

That's, I mean, for now, I think you could do that if, um, just unfortunately you have to do some math on your own, but understand your Shopify's time zone and let's say that you're spending money in Australia, like do the math for what those time zones are and set a rule that says check at 12:00 AM which is actually like what, 12:00 PM there. And then you could set, um, a campaign filter here, uh, here. And so like if the customer, if you're, uh, is it Tim or Dan? Dan, if you're, um, let's say you're running those ads with specific, um, names like a nomenclature in the campaign name and you could set that here. Um, yeah, and I think, I think that would,

Ilya Baklanov (59:32):

What you're describing is that the act action is possible with some filtering. It's the trigger that's not available here because the trigger will be an increase in sessions or unique visitors from organic channels in particular, geo, geo geography, like in particular countries like that is not available right now. Something interesting, uh, like I can't promise that we will quickly act on it because we'll probably want more customers to request this. We don't have anything geography geo related right now in the platform, right? So that just makes it more complicated to implement by a very interesting use case. I agree you something took out for, yeah,

Rabah Rahil (01:00:13):

I definitely think that the lo-fi kind of implementation of this would be what Logan's talking about, where you're kind of like day partying and you're playing on those time zones where you're, you're kind of rolling your spend with the people. Um, so you can do some sort of proxy hack here. But, um, to Elia's point, we aren't bringing in any demographics right now in terms of, uh, gender or, uh, location, et cetera, et cetera. So there I, there are layers to this thing. Um, but, uh, okay, we're four minutes over. If you guys wanna sneak in for another question, do it. Dan, Tim, Mercon, Marissa, the whole crew. I really appreciate all of the really, really thoughtful questions. I know this was kind of a, a heady webinar, but I really wanted to get, uh, Logan and Ilia on here because they are just incredible at explaining very, very complex things.

(01:01:03)
And uh, to Ilias point and Logan's point, this isn't a replacement for you. The media buyer, your brands media buyer, et cetera, it's an augmentation. So it's in addition to, to free up whether that be more time, whether that be just more brain space, whether that be, um, just anything so we can help you make more money, have your ads run for better, more efficient, more effective. And so I think finding this nice little rule set will, will really start to be a boon for a lot of accounts, especially if you start to have some sort of, so just anecdotally for Triple Whale, um, we cut all of our ads off on Friday night, um, Friday night Pacific time, um, because nobody buys SAS products on the weekends. Um, and so that's something that would be really useful for us, where we can actually use this and say, Hey, all the ads on these days, and then you fire him back up on Monday.

(01:01:54)
So there's all sorts of little weird interesting use cases. Um, Ilia had somebody he was working with, uh, and Ozzy, um, from down under, but he was running US accounts. And so this is something that will also help enable that person. So lots of awesome awesomeness to come, but definitely look, be on the lookout for the channel in NARAL Nation. Get in there. Um, if you do have any questions, definitely, uh, like I said, do that little Logan three step process of definitely lean on the team as heavily as you need to. We'll even go and check the rules for you to make sure, make sure you run the simulation. And then if you do have any anxiety or reticence, uh, make sure you probably start a little bit, uh, less aggressive and kind of work your way up to, um, betting the, the house and scaling 20% every 15 minutes. Oh, and then notifications are coming those that's top of mind. So let us know where you wanna see those. I think a Slack channel makes a ton of sense. Um, but um, we'll, we'll figure out the best implementation of that. Um, with that being said, I'm six over, um, Ilia closing remarks.

Ilya Baklanov (01:02:55):

Definitely start using it, but as mentioned multiple times, start slow. So start immediately, but start slow and then as you gain confidence you'll see that it can really save you lots of time.

Rabah Rahil (01:03:09):

Incredible. Logan, what you got for us?

Logan Brown (01:03:13):

Thanks for being here. Happy holidays. Let's go, uh, save you some time so you can spend more time with your family.

Rabah Rahil (01:03:19):

Amazing Ole Miss Bowl game. What do you got going on there?

Logan Brown (01:03:23):

28th, 9:00 PM Eastern Texas Tech in Houston.

Rabah Rahil (01:03:27):

Ew. Gross. You guys did have a bad season. Oh my gosh, thanks. Unbelievable. You're you, you were off to the hottest start.

Logan Brown (01:03:34):

Listen, I'm not really worried about that. I'm going to New York for New Year's. That's what I'm focused on. Amazing. In a difference place, you know,

Rabah Rahil (01:03:41):

As, as you should. Are you doing the Times Square thing? What are you doing?

Logan Brown (01:03:45):

Uh, fish in Madison Square Garden. <laugh>. Oh my gosh, I

Rabah Rahil (01:03:49):

Forgot. Are they gonna do the whale thing?

Logan Brown (01:03:52):

They do a different thing every year. That was just their shick last time. Oh my

Rabah Rahil (01:03:54):

Gosh. Oh my gosh. I should have bought that print. That print was so cool. Maybe I'll, maybe I'll still get it for the office. Yeah,

Logan Brown (01:04:00):

Buy for Christmas. Thanks.

Rabah Rahil (01:04:01):

Maybe I'll still get it for the office. Oh really? <laugh>. I forgot about that. Maybe we will. Maybe a little, little year on bonus. Yes, son. Saunder, I saw you go out to your cabin. It was super fun. You got a new truck. What else? What else is life is just good over there to tell, give the people your sign off. Did

Logan Brown (01:04:18):

You get a Ford Raptor?

Rabah Rahil (01:04:20):

I got a fan. What'd you get? A fancy gmc. What was it? It's like a spaceship. This thing. It's unbelievable. Doesn't

Saunder Schroeder (01:04:25):

Matter. I'm I'm just over here backpedaling for the rest of the day, so.

Rabah Rahil (01:04:28):

Yes, yes. You're you.

Saunder Schroeder (01:04:29):

I'll just backpedaling that's my sign on.

Rabah Rahil (01:04:32):

Is there, is there a stop loss rule on, on Saunder's? Comments against rules? How do I, how do I, how do I implement that? This

Saunder Schroeder (01:04:38):

Guy? We don't have, we don't have a threshold yet. We're,

Rabah Rahil (01:04:42):

What's the look back? 15 minutes. Can I, can I, can I mute this out? What's going on here? Um, alright folks, thanks so much. I know we're eight minutes over, but uh, like I said, this is one of my favorite parts of the week. Uh, we'll see you guys next Wednesday for sure. And then do we have any, cause I know holidays are coming up, so we'll do the 21st. Um, and then we probably will do the 28th, but we'll kind of fill it out to see if you guys wanna do that. Cause I know that's gonna be, um, bumping up against the, uh, Christmas holiday as well as New Year. So as always, we'll keep you guys informed. Um, make sure to go check out, like I said, the D two C uh, gift guide. If you're not on well mail, subscribe, triple.com/whale mail.

(01:05:19)
Um, we're on the Twitters, we're on the LinkedIns. Hit us up anywhere. And then, um, if you're not in Nawh Nation, definitely definitely get in there. Um, I dropped a link. Just go to the optimizations tab and then down there is the join link. Um, Ilia Logan, uh, really appreciate you guys helping spread the gospel here. I think this is gonna be a really big, big uh, just improvement for people's lives in general to understand and kind of wrangle these rules and then start to deploy them in a meaningful manner. So really amazing work there. And then Saunder always appreciate it. Hair looks fab as always. So we'll see you guys later. That's another well webinar in the books. Um, and then we will also send this out for post hoc hot consumption. Um, so thanks again everybody. We really appreciate you. Bye. Thank you.

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