Nick Shackelford on his Journey from the LA Galaxy to Building a DTC Empire

December 1, 2022


Hosted By

Rabah Rahil
CMO at Triple Whale


Nick Shackelford
living http://structured.agency & http://konstantkreative.com

Episode Description

One of my favorite podcasts to date.  I am huge Shack Stan and even more after this pod. He talks about his journey from being a professional soccer player to building a DTC Empire. The paths he has taken and the amount he has accomplished is mind boggling. What a human. #ROAS

Notes & Links

Follow Shack on Twitter - https://twitter.com/iamshackelford

Check out Geekout - https://geekoutevents.io/dubai/

Get Some Creative Made - https://konstantkreative.com/

Checkout out Triple Whale - https://trytriplewhale.com


Rabah Rahil (00:00:08):

3, 2 1. Alright, ladies and gentlemen, this could be to date the biggest get of the, you are not your RO eyes podcast. We have the crusher, the OG of Facebook adds the DTC godfather himself. Nick Shackleford, Nick, welcome to the podcast.

Nick Shackelford (00:00:26):

Oh my gosh. These intros get better and better. Um, bless Raba. Good to see you brother.

Rabah Rahil (00:00:31):

Likewise, man. So as always, I'm in the Austin, Texas hub of triple, well, where does this podcast find you today? Nick?

Nick Shackelford (00:00:37):

It's fun at my home. So I'm calling in from orange county, uh, California. So I'm a west coast kind of guy, uh, born and raised out here. So it's, I'm not, I'm not, I don't know if I would say I'm proud to be a California kid, but I am thankful to be a California kid because I'm over here bundled up. It's like 62 degrees.

Rabah Rahil (00:00:54):

I've I'm the same. I actually just recorded a video yesterday. Um, and it was 50 degrees and I was in my puffy. I, I, I, I have a Texas thermostat. It gets like 50 degrees. I'm freezing, but like 120, no problems. Yep. <laugh> um, so you, you went to school out there for a little bit, right? And then you transferred as well. So tell me a little bit about that.

Nick Shackelford (00:01:15):

Oh, oh yeah. Thank you. So we, it happened. Okay. So we there's very short there's, there's very few goals that you have, like growing up and like, I've been very, very thankful that I've hit every single, every, literally every single goals in target that I've set for my life and been able to hit. And like, that's, that's really difficult to say. I feel, and I tell people this, I am on like career number four of the careers I've had just because I've been so thankful. And I turned 31 last year. So the boys I'm, I'm very excited. Like I am on one and I'm not continuing to slow down because we have a, we're blessed. We have a very big opportunity as you know, it like to be able to log on, open a computer and that's your job to be a thought worker is important, but it didn't start that way.

Nick Shackelford (00:01:58):

Um, the only, and this is I'll quote, name her on this is like the only value I have is with the ball at my feet. Cuz all I cared about doing was playing soccer. That's it? I love it. I was uh, I'm I'm in orange county, which means like the population diversification's pretty, pretty large. Like we have, um, a strong Hispanic culture. We have a strong Asian culture where the, the black population is growing by us. But when I was, I mean, 9, 10, 11, 12, I was one of the few white guys playing soccer. So it really started with me playing sports, them, looking at me and, and up until I graduated college, my name was Nico. So I was like, Nico, like you go get on the net. Like you're the goal? Like go get on the net because they're like all the, all the Hispanics were on the field and they're like, we need a, we need a goalie jump in it. So thankful. And also like, that was my first experience of like, oh, I'm a minority right here. Cool.

Rabah Rahil (00:02:48):

How interesting. Yeah. So let me give you a little quote here, cuz I wanna set the stage in terms cuz you actually PR went pretty far with your soccer career. So growing up, I spent time focused on athletics team oriented goals rather than striving for positive marks on tests after 15 years of dedication to division one university. So for people who don't know division, one's the top, uh, level in athletics for um, us NCAA and representing my team. I support it as a boy. That's pretty crazy. So for people that also don't know, uh, shack attack was, uh, he played with all LA galaxy. Yep. And then the goal of obtaining professionalism within my sport became a reality. So you went from this kid getting pickup games with the local Hispanics, not wanting to get on the field. So they throw you in the goal and then you take all of that and mold it into a literal pro career.

Nick Shackelford (00:03:40):

This was, yeah. Thank you for leading me into this because it's funny. I forget that quote, but I know where that's from. Um, the like you can choose two paths, especially in like the states like you have, you can be, uh, an intellect, you can be an athlete, but like it's hard to be both and be really good at both. At least that's the story that I told myself and that's what I'm sticking to it. Uh, so <laugh> I told myself, I was like, I'm not going to university, which was university of California, Berkeley, which is to this day probably one of the most pristine colleges, public schools and states or at least in California, that's

Rabah Rahil (00:04:12):

Sure. Very good state school. That's a really good state school. Yeah.

Nick Shackelford (00:04:13):

So I, I put, put the time and effort into, to play sports, got the, got the, the marks that I needed, but didn't Excel in the school, but I was like, that's cool. I'm gonna let this. And it's kind of important, like to know the vehicle that I used and where I needed to get outta that car at that right time. That's, that's how I like that's my analogy is like the vehicle that I used to get to the next step or next stop was sports that took me to Berkeley. And then that was my first experience of going like right player, wrong organization, which is like a, a pretty consistent theme in my life of like, I'm the right person, but it's not, it's not the right system for me. And that was the first time I realized that the coach told me like Shaq, listen, you're a great locker room guy.

Nick Shackelford (00:04:55):

You're fantastic. You're just not gonna play. We love to have you. You can stay like you're good. Good, good vibes, good energy dude. But you're never gonna play. And I'm sitting here going like, dude, I went to this school. Yeah, it's cool. But I went to school to play what I could, what am I gonna do? Which put me over to the next school, which was St. Louis university slew, which is where we actually, I was able to, I got very fortunate, um, gotta play all my years. I got three years there. And then that led me to, what am I gonna do with my life? Like, cool. I want, I wanna play. So I came back and it's actually funny to this day, like you can look up Nick shock, word highlights. And it's the same tape that I sent into the galaxy to get me to the trial. It's still live today. And every once in a while, cuz there's all the other marketing videos that every once in a while you have like one of my friends or like somebody in the space that we know is like, bro, you're way better at goalie than Facebook ads. I was like, get outta here. What are you doing? So it was it's some, some funny shit, dude. <laugh>

Rabah Rahil (00:05:48):

That's amazing. So you actually sent, I didn't know any of this. So this was super on you then. So it wasn't even that you were recruited. No, you actually sent in tape to come to tryouts to then make the team

Nick Shackelford (00:06:00):

That's oh, oh my God did. Because this that's like

Rabah Rahil (00:06:03):

Pit bull style shit, man. That's awesome.

Nick Shackelford (00:06:05):

You, you, at the time of this, right there was there's the, the traditional American way is like you go to college college, you go to combine, combine, you go get in, you get drafted, you go earn your stripes and you go, soccer is wasn't at the time as ahead of where like the NFL combine is or where the NBA combine is like they have true like farm leagues to push soccer was just developing it. They have it all over the world, like everywhere, but states, it just didn't hit. And so that time I was like, I needed to and listen, you get what you negotiate on, what you deserve. So I take that very personal and closed mouth. Don't get fed. If you wanna go get it, like you have to go get it. So I'm saying like, fuck it. I can need to stay here and train or I can start setting film out of like the things and you, if I go back and look at it, you can clearly see that.

Nick Shackelford (00:06:49):

Like I understood the position, like the, I was a goalkeeper, there's very few, few elements of a goalkeeper that people need to see the command of the box. You have good hands shot, stopping distribution, um, communication. So like every single thing is structured that way. So when I send a tape, it's less than a minute long, they have all the good details and those, those done deal that got me foot in the door. And I was like, dude, if I get in, you're never gonna get rid of me. I'm in, I'm in it little did I know it's actually very easy to get rid of the player. Um, and so <laugh> when I spent two years with the LA galaxy and this at this time, like, uh, my fiance, we we've been together since, uh, school, uh, high school. And I was sitting there. We did long distance.

Nick Shackelford (00:07:31):

She used San Francisco. I was St. Louis. And we got to the point, she was like, babe, I, I trust me. I love you. I support your dreams, but I'm not doing another year of long distance. I'm sorry. And I go interesting that this is like the love of my life. Um, yeah. How am I gonna keep this? How am I gonna do this? But then I also know that like, I, I didn't have any worth or value other than playing sports. That was like, it, that's where I thought my cap was. So I go, all right, babe, I'm done. I'll go coach. And I'll do private. It's like, usually if a pro don't make it, you go do two things. You go join a local team or you go coach a university.

Rabah Rahil (00:08:05):


Nick Shackelford (00:08:06):

That's it that's, you don't really get much other options. So that's what I did locally to orange county. You have modern day high school, which is a, a private school. You have Villa park high school, which is where my Alma mater was. And then you have like local teams, Irvine strikers pad dos, places that I did my boyhood sports there. So I went back and I was coaching and I was coaching. I was like, damn dude, I'm gonna, I'm gonna make 60 GS top. And maybe a couple programs if I do this. And I'm like, there's no way I'm gonna hit any sort of target or any sort of metrics walk in this angel of a, of a woman, Rachel puke. Rachel puke was the main person that gave me the introduction. Cuz she at the time was the CMO of PepsiCo products on the syrup side, which I don't know, not many people know this. There's the syrup side and there's a bottle side. The syrup side is restaurants. BJ's Wahoos, um, pizza hu jets. And then there's a bottles, which is like the bottles. Like you go to the grocery store. Yeah.

Rabah Rahil (00:09:03):

Distributors, retailers kind of thing. God, I didn't know that

Nick Shackelford (00:09:07):

On tracks, contracts are negotiated. So okay. Every year Pepsi has a allocation of, of uh, a budget co-marketing dollars is what they call. We have co-marketing dollars in like corporate America buttoned up terms. We have corporate, we have, uh, we have co co-marketing dollars to partner with BJ's Wahoos and let's do an activation so we can sell more syrup. So that's like where you get, uh, buy these tacos and get a, a free cup on us or free Pepsi on us. That's great. That's what they want. So I sat down there and I'm like, I asked her, I was like, Rachel, I'm training her daughter, a training, her daughter, Ava. And we're doing go training. And after everything, I was always like, yeah, like I love marketing. I love this. I love that. And she goes like, yeah, well you come into the, the office in lake forest, which is like a city bias.

Nick Shackelford (00:09:54):

Come, come outta the office and just like, sit in, ask questions. And I'm like, yeah, I'm doing that. So listen, Rob, listen to this. I have my old, my old computer that I had in the university called like in, in St. Louis. And I would go early to the practice cuz if you're a coach, you basically drive which my, I have a Prius cuz it's got the biggest trunk space, best gas mileage. I have no money. So I'd, I would drive early hot spot my phone to start building presentations in the car before I go coach and kick soccer balls at the, at the kids drive to lake forest, sit there on the wifi in the parking lot, finish the rest of the deck, change my clothes out of soccer, like coaching gear into like the nicest pair of jeans in a button up shirt that I had and went and go sit in meetings. That was, that was life. That was like the only thing that I thought I had, cuz that was like, that's the opportunity at hand to get me out of being a coach.

Rabah Rahil (00:10:48):

That's wild dude. That's so fascinating too. Cuz every time I encounter somebody that is at like a fairly high pinnacle of success, uh, which I would consider you at cheers, you always forget the hustle, right? Like people always, always found it funny with success where there's kind of like two stages of it where people will either ascribe like, oh you're not gonna do it. Blah, blah, blah. And then when you do do it, they make up all these reasons that you did it. You're like none of that had to do with anything. Dude. One, I probably got really lucky, but the other thing I worked my ass off, like there was, there's always been this kind of hard work. And the other thing that I've derived from it too. There's a lot of people that bet on themselves essentially where it's like, I'm gonna take a short term loss in economics. Like it just is what it is. But, but the time that I'm doing that, I'm not playing video games or doing something, something like that's non compounding. I'm figuring out ways that I can generate value for people. And now you can start to flip the leverage where it's like, you have all this value generative capability. And then when that opportunity does arise, you're prepared for it. Versus if an opportunity comes around and you weren't in that hustle mode, you wouldn't have the capabilities to satisfy the ask.

Nick Shackelford (00:12:05):

You're so you're so spot on that because if you're, if you're training yourself and this goes for anything, if you, if you stay ready, you don't have to get ready. Right. Like if you're, if you're, if you're just in it, you're like, listen, I don't know what's happening, but like I'm down to put in this work. If it just hits the groove and you're just continuing to take it on and run with it. That's that's the, and honestly I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna fucking lie. A lot of this stuff that I've been doing a lot of this from 20 15, 20 13, 24, like all of this, it's the same energy. It's the same, same path. Like I, I've only slightly veered off for two reasons. One, I need a partner here. I can't do this. I need this industry here. I can't do that without, without you or, or introduction, continue to go. Everything else has been the same path forward, paid social community and content. That's the same thing it's been since 2013 yet. Like I hit the scene in 2017 and they're all like, where's this kid been? I'm like, cheers. I've been, I've been waiting, dude. I didn't have anything to talk about. But here we go, man.

Rabah Rahil (00:13:03):

It's, it's so funny

Nick Shackelford (00:13:06):

RA it blows me. Lemme tell you this one, dude. I know, I know what happens when, when you, when opportunity comes to you and you don't necessarily know or when you're ready for it, but you just trust that. Like I, I, if the number one investment is, is in your name and your reputation. So as long as I care and continue to put steps forward, it's just gonna work out. And I, I bro, that's, that's the theme of my life,

Rabah Rahil (00:13:30):

Man. I love it. There's also something that I get from, um, again, high achievers as well is this, um, and I don't want to, it sound condescending to other people, but there's this kind of Destin for greatness attitude. Um, and like you might not be great right now, but every day you're getting up and you're sharpen in the saw you're sharpening, the saw you're sharpening the saw. And um, it was actually, there's a kind of small digression here, but there's a fantastic documentary on Rick James, uh, called bitching on Showtime. Okay. Talking about wild wild dude. But I didn't realize Rick James like had a really long path to like, superstardom like he was in all these things and I just knew, knew him as the actual Rick James stuff. And one of the things kind of I'll land. The plane here was when they were talking to him and he was like selling out, you know, a hundred thousand arenas person, arenas.

Rabah Rahil (00:14:21):

He was like, I was already famous in my head. I was already there. The world just hasn't caught up to me. And I was just like, wow man, there's some, you definitely have to balance it with arrogance, right? Like there's certain like humility will also get you a really long way. And that was kind of his downfall as well as drugs and other stuff. Cocaine's hell drunk. But the, um, the too long didn't read there is, there's just something about betting on yourself and understanding that maybe it doesn't happen today or tomorrow, but all these steps get me into a, a better place that when I can make the jump, I will. And I'm capable of it because if not, you'll you, you just waste all this time in theory land. And that's what I see unsuccessful people where, especially when they're smart, they have this ability to rationalize why they shouldn't do something.

Rabah Rahil (00:15:07):

Yeah. Or why it's gonna fail or why. And it quite possibly could. But that's not the point right now. Like right now, I think I think of life in kind of two different frames. You either have more time than money or you have more money than time when you're in the former and you have more time than money. It's not necessarily horrible place to be because you two, I mean, there's never, I've always said this time, period. There's never been a worse time to be average and never been a better time to be exceptional back in the day, you could be average and you get a house, you get a wife, everything's happy. You have a car you're living a good life. You go to the factory clock in and out. It's really challenging to be average nowadays. But if you have that drive and you have that ability to actionize yourself and be your own boss in a way and start to create value through all these different channels, especially they're free, man, you can really move and have economic prosperity. That pretty much has meant unseen before. Because if not, you'd have to get some weird pedigree credentials or you have to do this. Like there was so many gatekeepers to wealth that have basically evaporated because of the internet.

Nick Shackelford (00:16:12):

But you were so spot on there. Like the, it goes, it, it goes back to the ethos of like closed mouth. Don't get fat. Like if you want it, go get it. Like there's we? So the, the journey of marketing, it took me from, from Pepsi to apple, from apple to, uh, Tim bird's, uh, timber's agency that to common thread, common thread to where I'm at now. And every single time it's been somebody else putting me on or putting me up, making sure I delivered and be like, can I go, am I good? Awesome. Thanks so much. Like I remember when Taylor and I left each other, like Taylor, we did some crazy stuff at common threat. Like we broke records. We were growing like this craziest time of life. I'll never get that time back. And it's, I'm grateful for every single day. These guys like you see 'em all over Twitter.

Nick Shackelford (00:16:53):

Like there's a reason why they are the way they are. And they have the big, because they've been doing it for years on a level that like it's really difficult to get to. And we just finished an agency event in, um, in Atlanta. Whereas all agency owners, agency owners that are like, we just did our first hundred GS. We just did a first two 50, like, or we're building the team or whatever, like different stages. And people keep asking like, dude, there's a consistency that people need to know that like, that is a person to bet on. Like when you it's, it's not necessarily the, what you're doing, it's the amount and how long you've been doing it because they're gonna look at it. They're gonna make a bet on. Who's gonna be doing the longest. Like I've seen downturns, I've seen upturns, I've spent the money.

Nick Shackelford (00:17:32):

I've been through good brands or bad brands. Our team has as well. I'm gonna make a be like, if this person's gonna navigate me through this damn well, I'm gonna partner with this guy. Like we all went through this pandemic. No, one's done this before. Guess what? Now is the further we, we, the more we get away from that initial 20, 20, 20, 21 year now we have that in our packed pocket. Like, yo, we've been through this before. We know what this looks like. Cool. If someone, if that happens again, we're ready to take on or ready to support other brands. And it blows me away that people will. And actually it's Eddie Malouf gave me this. He's like, I won't follow my friends or I won't, he will, but let me I'll land this plane as well. <laugh> I won't follow a new person on like another channel unless I see them posting for at least three months, because why am I gonna go commit to this person or engage with this person? And they're gonna be gone in a couple weeks. That's just this other like thing to, to remind yourself or remember like when you're gonna surround yourself with others that you wanna like measure yourself against or build with, let, like they better be consistent. They better show up on, on more often days than not.

Rabah Rahil (00:18:34):

Gosh, I love that man. And it, it sounds chintzy and it sounds a little bit of like the, uh, if you wanna be rich, don't be poor advice. But man, I cannot like hammer that point home more like action breeds, action breeds action. Like just do it get out of the theory land. Like there's just the other thing about living in that theory land too, is like the map. Isn't the territory where like you have this beautiful theory and then you get punched in the face with reality where it's like, oh, that doesn't work. Oh, this brand actually doesn't have that hooked up and they're never gonna hook it up because of some, you know, architectural impediment. Um, and so now you have to move around this and there's just so many things. And I, I actually, the one thing I really, really love about that too is, um, so Nietzche obviously a super crazy guy, but one of my, uh, kind of favorite philosopher thinkers, he would actually wish ill will upon people.

Rabah Rahil (00:19:22):

He, he was fond of and the reason or logic behind it was, you really don't know who you are until you've been in it. You can always say, you're the guy that's gonna run into the fire. You can always say, you're the guy that's gonna do this or gal that's gonna do this. But until that actual hardship hits you, you have no clue who you are. And that's why I really like actually like working out and things like that, where I think it's almost coming back full circle of instead of getting ready, stay ready. Yep. Like being able to expose yourself to uncomfortable situations. Um, and physically is really the quickest way to do that. I mean, mentally it's, it's also helpful, but you can get that mental phys mental uncomfortable when you're in a, a physically exhausted state, um, like working out and stuff like that.

Rabah Rahil (00:20:05):

And then the more you realize it's not that bad. I'm okay. I can get through this. I can get through this and that resiliency, compiled and built with humbleness and empathy as well as, uh, value for value, like helping others when I kind it's your path, dude, when I was younger, man, I was building websites for cheap or either no money, basically like spec work, doing all this stuff, but all these things start to, you know, compound. And then the next thing you know, you're selling $10,000 websites when you were making 500 bucks and you, it happens faster than you th or slower than you think and faster than you think. But man, I, I was just, I'm all jacked up now. It's like a, to Robins concert here. I love it.

Nick Shackelford (00:20:43):

I'm with you, I'm

Rabah Rahil (00:20:44):

With you. Um, what, so if you had had to kind of extract maybe like resources or frameworks or kind of cuz you're, you're one of the most happy, productive people. I know. How do you keep that, um, machine going or is there any kind of method to the madness? Do you have routines or frameworks or like, how do you, how do you think of your day week getting things done? Can you give people some color on

Nick Shackelford (00:21:06):

That? Yeah, I'll give a little bit of context of like, I think like in my normal consumption or my normal habit, uh, zero alcohol, all my life since high school. Um, nice. That was, that was like a non-negotiable with me. So it's done. I was, I was consuming cannabis up until about two years ago. Um, cuz I thought it was important cause I thought, I thought it made me creative. I thought this, this, this, this, um, no consumption of cannabis. I'll I'll, I'll indulge in the gummy every once in a while. Don't get me wrong. Yeah. Um, but there's that that's, that was important. Cause I thought it actually helped me and it was like, I was convincing myself that that was important. Um, no Adderall consumption. That was something that was a part of my life at the beginning. Cause I thought that's what, uh, high achievers or high performers needed to get through the day.

Nick Shackelford (00:21:49):

Same, um, all, all numbness, right? Like all things that weren't important. Um, I'm a 5 45 riser. I'm at the desk by 6, 6 15. Um, my morning hours are my best hours. I know that like it hits 6, 7, 8, and the, the decision fatigue is there, the thre there, like I'm out, like my brain is done. Um, I am on all channels, Facebook, Instagram, da da, da, da, but I'm not consuming all channels. So this is something that like I use the channels in which they're meant for which is strategic distribution of content dependent on the goal that that channel or that month needs someone I'll call out on. This is chase diamond, right? He's very intentional. He's very specific on how he's sharing and the consistent and the cadence of this. This is something that we challenge ourselves to, to for this year and last year. And we'll continue to challenge ourselves across this.

Nick Shackelford (00:22:37):

So being really, really consistent on the distribution of content that's my Monday, Monday is planning of scheduling all the content across, across channels. So when it's time to share, I can just grab it and go and just focus on that. 20, 30, 40 minutes of engaging. That's something, not many, not enough people do. That's something that tripled is fucking fantastic. They, they partnered with the right people to keep the name of the reputation and continue to build, which is something that's really set. The, I have to give credit to you guys and unfortunate that I have to say this in front of everybody here, but you guys have built a machine of, of buzz across every avenue specifically on Twitter, but it's growing elsewhere. Now that is really, really impressive because not many people understand the B2B influencing level that you guys have. That's generated literally literal dollars in the, in the millions that you guys are entitled to. So I have to call that out immediately for you guys. So well done. Um, I don't know if you had any inputs here, but if you did congratulations, thank you.

Rabah Rahil (00:23:35):

Yeah. Yeah. A little dirty pool. You're trying to soften me up for a rapid fire. I'm I'm not taking the bait shack. I'm not taking the bait.

Nick Shackelford (00:23:41):

So I would, I would say we, I, I have up until this point, I wasn't using an assistant. Assistant's been the best thing for me for all my follow ups. I was one, I was the main person handling this, get that off your plate, get that outta your brain. Um, I have partners in every business I have. So geek out is James structured as chase Jake, David and Amelia. They stay in their lane. They own their lane. And the constant creative is with Jake as well. So those, those areas, my core focus, which I'm best at is building the community, keeping the vibes, I call it CVO chief vibe officer. So our company like the culture that's important. Right? So I, I, I emphasize and I focus on that as much as possible. Um, because listen, if nowadays in work remote, like remote work, that's important.

Nick Shackelford (00:24:22):

Um, and then I'm, I'm very responsive. Like every single person will get a response as fast as possible, as thorough as it needs to be. So as a lot of my time spent there and then finally like, I'll share this here first. Cause we haven't shared this anywhere. We're in final talks of our third acquisition of an agency. And it's something that we don't, we don't, we don't talk too much about, but it's something that we're getting more and more involved in in terms of like the acquihire growth states because we don't, and this is just art ethos at the moment, it could change the future. We don't hire juniors. We are willing to overpay or pay the, the market rate or more, more the market for professionals. And that comes with their own bag of bag of goodies. But we, we aren't looking to build and train.

Nick Shackelford (00:25:07):

We're looking to like elevate and incentivize is, is essentially what we're going towards. Um, and then I don't consume back to like the consumption. I don't consume TV. I don't consume, uh, podcasts anymore. I was heavy. And right now I'm just so solely focused on the three businesses that we have to build. And it, it might not be healthy. It might not be like the, the, the working, but also like we're trying to do really important things and really big things that I've never done before. So you gotta, it's gotta be different, different type of person,

Rabah Rahil (00:25:36):

Man. I love that. That's incredible. I don't even know where to pick that stuff apart. There's just so much there. Yeah. I mean, I think there really is something to be said about, um, figuring out what substances serve you. Um, because I think that you're absolutely right there in terms of there's, there's some things that people can attach, some attributes, especially positive externalities that are totally fictitious. There is 0% exist and it's hard to, uh, feel that like the first week or two after getting outta some things. But, um, yeah. I mean, I think the clear heads there, the rise early is there. I, I, I mean, I think that's just the, that that really is the path. The other thing I really love about that is, you know, what you want, everything that you just said was absolutely actionable, non ambiguous. Um, and I think one of the biggest things I've found as I get older, a lot of times confrontation or frustration arises when there's, uh, different expectations.

Rabah Rahil (00:26:36):

Sure. And so having the ability to align those expectations, just alleviate so much awkwardness down the road. Like there's nothing wrong, especially if you get the higher level people, it's no, that's not what we need. And you're like, okay, fine. That's not what we're offering. Like that's fine. But when people try honey, Dick you is really when it can start to get a little frustrating where it's like, well, you said this, and this is what I was expecting. And there's just all this discombobulation. Um, so I just think that man, just the other thing too, is I don't think you will burn out because one of the fastest ways to F figure out if you're burning out is be introspective. And it sounds like you have a really, really high acumen for introspection on yourself. Whereas like, is this thing that I'm doing serving my goals that I'm trying to get done.

Rabah Rahil (00:27:17):

Um, there, there's a great quote where it says when you have decisions or when you have priorities, decisions are easy. And I think that's kind of, uh, really, really good way to set up your life because the other thing is context switch. Chain's a bitch, man context, switching will just wreck you as you get into more and more things. And everybody's grabbing your time. Cause I recently did the assistant thing lately and it's been a God's and I'm still not as timely as I should be because I just have so many million things. I usually have like a 24, 48 hour rule to make sure that I'll get people get back to people. But man, I love that.

Nick Shackelford (00:27:49):

I love that. No it's dude you're you kind of nailed it. So, uh, I won't go, I, I know we can keep you on it, but we're, we're powering through this. So it's incredible.

Rabah Rahil (00:27:57):

I love it. Okay. Last one for the main segment, what's one piece of advice you would give someone, um, thinking about starting an agency today,

Nick Shackelford (00:28:04):

Partner with somebody. Um, I, this is I advice I already gave this away. Don't do it yourself. Um, even if you want to own majority of it and you want to keep all the equity intact cap table, clean, whatever, um, elevate somebody that is a, uh, potential C level for you. But at first there's two to it. It's, it's two very simple, unique clients. You need to keep clients. One of you has to be focused on one of them. That's why Jake and I were able to do what we do. That's why chase and David were able to do what they do in Amelia, um, is because focus on getting 'em in, focusing on keeping 'em in. So those, those core area I would, I really, really, really give a shit about. Um, and I would say don't be afraid of out offshore work and talent.

Nick Shackelford (00:28:45):

Mm-hmm <affirmative> if you're willing to invest the time, because at first there's and let's, there's a negative connotation, which is shitty as it sounds like we have a full team Ukraine. We have full team U uh, uh, in Mexico, we have full team, the Philippines, we have full team in India. We're continue to build out in Eastern European, Eastern European countries. There's negative connotation of the accent on English. Speaking is so terrible that I wish people would just get over this or brains, get over this. They've learned another language and are proficient in it. You probably know English and some broken Spanish because you go to Mexican food on Tuesdays. Listen, it do like these it's it kills me. Do we have the number one creative agency that we've ever, we, I will not go anywhere else for the price for the, the consistency for the thoroughness they're called league agency.

Nick Shackelford (00:29:30):

They're based in Ukraine. They've done all the geek out branding. They've done all of our, uh, the, the new podcasts that we have branding. They've done everything custom yet. People still come to 'em be like, ah, I can't understand. Anastasia's, uh, accent. I'm like, what are you talking about? She learned English to speak to you kills me. So I would say embrace that, like understand that. And if your company can't be, if you don't think you can navigate those conversations with your clients or brands one, there's an issue there, but two, then you get a front face in American voice. That's it a hundred percent there, there that's it.

Rabah Rahil (00:30:03):

Ah, I love that, man. And I'll tell you what, man, there's a ton of arbitrage that be had there. And quite frankly, um, there's actually a ton of talent over in, uh, Eastern Europe. We've actually seen the same, um, kind of when I was running my old agency there, there's really talented people. And what's really cool too, is as you get across these different time zones, there's like this really unique cadence where they're working when you're sleeping. So you can kind of prove stuff when you're, and there's this really nice kind of flow of cadence in terms of deliverables. Yeah. I love that. And I couldn't echo more partnering. Um, I, I, I man, you can't do it all. And then if you can do it all, you can't scale it. Like, uh weren't you were the one telling me the $3 million man story. Right. I tell that to people all the time. I'm pretty sure it was you a geek out. Yeah. I tell that to people all the time shack exclusive. Um, it's it's very good though. All right, man. Wow. We made it in the value out already. You're just, it's like talking to a brother from another mother. I love it. Okay, cool. So this is why the people bought the ticket. Let's dive into some more stuff in terms of the value add segment. So,

Nick Shackelford (00:31:03):

Oh man, you're good at this. What

Rabah Rahil (00:31:05):

<laugh>, what are the best parts and hardest parts of owning an agency

Nick Shackelford (00:31:10):

Best parts and hardest parts. The best parts of owning an agency is that since it's a hundred percent people based in terms of like the deliver, the deliverables of what we provide, um, you get to see, you get, see people step up and you gotta see people really like experience a lot of different emotions because you are dealing with obviously people to people in that same token. And that same on the other side of that coin, it's a people place. It's a people business. So like if someone is off and you have nine calls today, you are eating nine calls. And those that touchpoint might be like, Hey, they might be out for a contract doing the end of this week, or it might be up for the end of this month. That lasting impression is, is very dangerous. Um, second, this is, and I, I believe it's about agencies and I've, I haven't said this before, but I believe this in my heart agencies and service businesses that act as wifi routers that connect to other businesses that allow other businesses to grow and other businesses to hire.

Nick Shackelford (00:32:12):

If it's it's based, it's gonna be on the back of a lot of us to continue to power and get people back on their feet in American, across the world, cuz we're able to provide growth. We're able to apply revenue. We're able to provide hiring for our people, which means that our point of context are able to hire or grow and their business are able to grow and they're able to hire. So there's, there's a domino effect that if you take this as serious as it should be, uh, agencies provide a lot, a lot of value and support for the rest of the world, especially around developing countries and especially giving opportunities to, to those that can't be thought workers cuz it, the internet doesn't discriminate and the, the agency world specifically doesn't care what you look like as long as you are green, as long as you're positive.

Nick Shackelford (00:32:53):

So I think that would be the, the, the biggest one tactical one is what I love about it is you you're able to see and you're able to get really, really good at managing P and LS and cash flow because you have to learn other businesses and you're able to learn other marketing channels essentially on their money, if that's the structure in which you're running or set up percent. Um, and then also you get a work on like your time. Like that's something that's people don't take for granted, but good or bad, however you wanna perceive it. I mean then something that I really, really do not like is the, the lack of respect that some people give you despite doing what you've done for them and building up their company is it just blows my mind. Like it, it really is. You're only as good as what you've just done. So constant reminders of something that's important.

Rabah Rahil (00:33:40):

Yeah. That's, that's a hard one, man. Um, that's, I haven't figured out my way around that latter point where it's just, sometimes it just is what it is and you know, you, you thank them for their time and smile and wish them the best because they're, there's no other point in putting, you know, negative energy towards any of that where it just sometimes shit shakes out where it shakes out and you can only do your best and control what you can control.

Nick Shackelford (00:34:03):

In fact,

Rabah Rahil (00:34:05):

I love it. You, you already kind of answered this one, um, in terms of how do you hire and skill up your team. So essentially you, you just pay above market and get crushers and you're, you're not really a, uh, kind of, uh, farm league. You're pretty much the pros and you want pros on your team. And I, I, man, I can echo this, especially if you have the economics. So obviously if you don't have the economics, it is what it is you make, make, do with what you make do with. But man, when there's just a, there's just such a difference between kind of a junior and a senior person where, um, I'm learning that at triple well where we, I missed on a couple, uh, you know, more junior social people. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and what you don't realize kind of in the leadership position is unless you're like another other senior crusher coming in, these people need direction.

Rabah Rahil (00:34:45):

They need to know what to do. They need, <laugh> you like when you have these senior people, you can just brain dump on and be like, Hey, I think I need a website. Can you go figure it out? And they're like, Hey, here's a developer, here's some fry wire frame. Like they get it. But when you have these junior people, they're still trying to learn and you have to manage 'em. And I, I didn't, I, I was totally naive to the, uh, managerial costs on time and productivity. So if I would do it all over again, that's exactly what I would do where just trying to hire crushers. If again, if the economics can net out, because it's just, there's so much headache, um, that is alleviated from that. And there's no, no, nothing wrong with bringing people up and skilling them up. I think it's fantastic as well. But um, if I was gonna do it all over again, I'd do it your way as

Nick Shackelford (00:35:27):

Well. Yeah. We, I would say if you're, if you're wanting to learn and go the agency route, like a mute six, uh, a common thread, uh, a Hawk media, like you're gonna get, you can take an entry level person. They'll give you enough to get and be dangerous with it and then go to a, a more boutique where you have a lot more responsibility.

Rabah Rahil (00:35:44):

Yeah. Exa I love that. Yeah. I love, love, love that. Um, okay. Let's see. How do you measure success on your team and then how often do you guys meet?

Nick Shackelford (00:35:54):

Okay, so me specifically, and you might hear my dog bringing over toy. So I apologize. Um, me specifically, I have five point of contacts we're on, we're on weekly syncs, which is like an ongoing, like an ongoing, uh, project. We're just kind of touch bases here. And then we do a lot of touch bases rather than like long drawn out meetings. Overall, we will do the department on a biweekly where it's like, here's, here's, uh, company wide updates that we have going for us. Um, measuring success. It's pretty straightforward because we have projects that are on a weekly, depending on the sprint, it's a weekly, biweekly, monthly, quarterly. And then we have the overall year project, which is over department revenue. That's like, we mapped towards dollars. That's like the core thing that we really truly care about at this point right now for the company wise, not for the people wise.

Nick Shackelford (00:36:41):

Um, and then we, we exercise front of the card back of the card. So if you picture like a business card, um, the front of the card is who you are and what your title is. Nick. I am the CVO and my worth is this. Like we equate it. And then the back of the card is the personal growth or, but what I stand for is like, I love my dogs. I love my lady. I love, I love community. I love growth. And so those, if you're asking your people, like, what is your funnel card, career expectations at the end of the year? And what is the back of the card I use Celine, which is a new, newer teammate of ours. She's like, Hey, here's my salary range. Here's my expectations. And then also like, I really wanna go to Vancouver and I'm like, fuck.

Nick Shackelford (00:37:15):

Yeah. Like, that's awesome. How do we get you there? So like knowing both the personal and the people, cuz I, people are like, oh, work life balance, like do that. And I'm like, okay, awesome. So, uh, work is life because of the cha the path in which I've chosen. A lot of our people have chosen. I just need to be balanced. So work life. That's cool, but I wanna be balanced if, if I'm balanced work and life is good, that's fine. I know I can work one at one and how I wanna do it. So I, I don't think you should strive for a work life balance. I think you should just strive for yourself to be balanced and if work and life fit, fit the puzzle pieces together, et cetera.

Rabah Rahil (00:37:52):

I love that, man. I, I, I actually have the same kind of, uh, poo poo on the work life balance. Like I think I, I think I get what it's getting at, but I just think it's a terrible mental model because if you look, and again, this is obviously one of the best things to do is obviously reference this to your goals. Sure. But a lot of like high achievers and people that I am want to emulate are absolutely obsessed with their craft. A hundred percent obsessed with their craft. They're working on it all the time. There's nothing wrong with that, but you do need blow off valves and you do need balance. Like you said, I think that's a really good way to put it where there needs to be a nice tension between your ambition and then a lot of things that matter.

Rabah Rahil (00:38:29):

Like, I, I truly believe that deep connections with humans you care about is pretty much the only thing that matters in this world. Like that. That's the show like, and it's easier to do that when you have, you know, resources and control over your time and these things like that. But for sure, uh, I, I couldn't agree with you more, man. I think the work life balance thing is, um, again, depending on where you want to end up or what your kind of longer term goals are, but crush what you need to crush and make sure that the people you care about are being taken care of. And the other thing is what I've found a good sign or a really good heuristic that you are not on the right path is that you're showing up, um, really well for people that don't matter. And you're showing up terrible for people that do matter. So let me give you an example, like everybody at work, you're, you're happy go lucky. You know, people love you. And then you're so tired from giving yourself to all these people that in reality, you know, they might matter, but not as much as your significant other. And then you go home and you're just this grumpy curmudgeon that hates life and stuff like that. Like, you know, is that what you wanna cultivate? I don't think so.

Nick Shackelford (00:39:31):

No, not well said.

Rabah Rahil (00:39:34):

Um, okay. One more. And then we'll getting the listener questions. Let's see. What's the biggest mistake you see new agency owners making,

Nick Shackelford (00:39:41):

Uh, not truly knowing

Rabah Rahil (00:39:43):

Most, most common or biggest,

Nick Shackelford (00:39:45):

I would say not truly knowing the, the margin that you're trying to operate at. So I'll, I'll speak specifically on this. We are 20 19, 20, 20, 20, 21. And then 20 22, 20 19, we were, uh, like under three, under 3 million, top 2020, we were like four, five, or like 3, 4, 5, and then no, sorry. Three, 3.5, sorry, not 3, 4, 5. That doesn't make any sense. And then last year we were six, seven, and then this year we're going to do 15. Woo. How, how do you, how do you do this? Like, what does that even mean? Like how, how, how do you get there at what margin? Our goals is two things we want. We want to make sure that we are as efficient as possible with the people that have the structures, the pods of growth that we have. We have a different way of doing things that I think other teams are starting to catch onto.

Nick Shackelford (00:40:37):

We've already kind of been on that game because we have full service on that stuff. Well, if I'm trying to get to 15, that's completely different than what we were trying to do at 5, 6, 7, 8. Maybe, maybe it's like, oh, you're two contracts away. But like organizationally and structured wise, like we already have the deal flow. We already have the business, but we need to make sure that all the other pillars are working alongside each other. So there's a lot of like internal re revisiting the goals and expectations and incentives. So two things, one know the margin you're trying to operate against. And then if you are starting and if you are, the founder are no longer in the day to day are like doing the personal touch. The people that are, they need to have some sort of incentivization, oftentimes it's monetary because that's what the company currently needs at that time.

Nick Shackelford (00:41:21):

You need, you can motivate them a little bit better by cash. At that point. You're probably not giving, if you're just ready, you're probably not giving them like 401ks or these extra benefits. I hope you are to strive to that. But I don't think you necessarily have that at that, that time. So cash, let that be one of the main motivators, uh, for, for, for some now again, front of the card, back of the card, know what their know, what their, what actually sits heavy on their heart or do they want a home, et cetera? Oftentimes it backs into cash.

Rabah Rahil (00:41:46):

Yeah, I, yeah. I love that. Um, man, you're so good at this. You're so good at this. All right. Let's jump into some listener questions. This is actually a, oh boy. You know, we have the big guest on, so that like people actually submitted questions this time. You're the first person that people have done this for. So I I'd be remiss not to acknowledge these questions. Um, okay. We'll kind of fire through these and then we'll get into the rapid fire. Okay. What, what has challenged you the most as a human through this process of growth?

Nick Shackelford (00:42:14):

What has challenged me most as a human through this process of growth? Um, I would say you will get, you will get pushed to points of integrity, uh, points of, I love that points of, there's a lot of money that flows when you, when you do this, like, there's a lot of money that comes with it, but there's, there's the wrong money to, to, to take. Um, and so like knowing exactly like where you stand in, like integrity wise or knowing, knowing where you stand, like your, your personal finance goals, you can't let the cash dictate decisions. And I think there's been opportunities and times where I like, oh, I could go make a quick buck right here, but I don't know what that would mean elsewhere. Or I don't know how that would, my partners would view me on that. Or I don't know how that could make me feel towards money or like there's a lot of like these viewpoints that people make decisions around finances, because oftentimes until you get to a point of like financial stability or at the level that you want, you're always looking to get to that level, which means you're most likely gonna do what you want or how, how you're gonna take the path of least resistance to get to that level from what I've seen.

Nick Shackelford (00:43:20):

Um, so if for me, it's be very clear and, and be, be cool in understanding like who you are in terms of like where you are with your finances and the respect you have towards that. Cuz it took me to, it took me to 29 30 to really respect money. And what I mean by this is like dad does HVAC. Mom was front office dental. I live in orange county. Like parents were divorced. Like I didn't really have a great relationship with money. So I meant like it's a hoarding moment and I don't think that's the proper way of having a relationship with money and you don't really get that or understanding of that until you get into a point of like, whoa, all right, these are real dollars. Like these are real, these are, this is real money now. So I think understanding what you would do with the cash or getting it out.

Nick Shackelford (00:44:05):

I use a simple strategy. I, um, there's a book about this, but I basically have like three or four different, uh, bank accounts. And as soon as one comes in, it goes out like I don't even look at it. So I I'm always looking at like $20,000 cuz I'm like, shit, I need like, this is not enough. Like what is this? So I'm always looking at, um, I think it's called profit first. I think that's what the book is called, but I don't look at my money because I essentially looks like I don't have any,

Rabah Rahil (00:44:31):

Uh, man, I love that. Uh, it, it's in a weird way. It's a great balance between the abundance and scarcity mentality where humans do horrible with that kind of, uh, abundance mentality. Like if we have a lot of things we're just wired to use it because

Nick Shackelford (00:44:44):

Yeah, that's

Rabah Rahil (00:44:45):

Kind of how we're normal. And so what you're doing there is just systematizing scarcity, but you're not, let me be clear. He's not adopting a scarcity mindset per se. Yeah. Where there's still an abundance mindset, but internally there's a scarcity where you're only seeing X amount of dollars and now you, you have this hustle and then for whatever reason, you know, if the cats come calling in, you have this little nest egg that can help, uh, you know, paper over some, you know, possible economic pitfalls, which is absolutely how you can take risk where, you know, like if for whatever reason I fall back, I'm not gonna go all the way down to poverty. Like I might come down a couple notches, but at least, you know, my bills are paid. That kind of thing. I love that, man. That's what's up. Um, if you had a magic wand and could create your own future 10 years from now, what would it look like?

Nick Shackelford (00:45:31):

Oh boy, fantastic. So the 10 years from now, um, I would no longer be running structured. Somebody else would be running. It I'd be advising it. Um, love it geka would be worldwide. And we would have, uh, chapters in every major country that we would then basically be the new EO or YPO, but on like a very like interesting, like weird level. Um, and then the, I would, I don't need a bigger home. I, I would like to have more homes in various areas so that we could, for two reasons, I think the, the we'll leverage like the like shack, like the, I want to build the love shack locations and that way people can like plug in and, and see and, and what we're all about and that way, cuz it's interesting. Like there's there's some cool shit. Like if you own a bunch of Airbnbs and you also have relations to this with CPG brands, like I'm, I'm putting all these brands in my places and then I'm selling consistently, like all these brands with QR codes from my Airbnbs. And I'm gonna take a referral and fill link on this bad way all day. So like, thinking about trying to play chess, like how do I acquire more short term rentals and then getting people to sponsor my short term rentals with the brand partnerships I have that should, that could be like, that's next level. If someone's doing that, hit me up. Like, I would love to be, I'd love to invest in that.

Rabah Rahil (00:46:51):

Yeah. If someone's not me, you need to do this. That's a incredible idea. I love that idea.

Nick Shackelford (00:46:55):


Rabah Rahil (00:46:55):

Fire. Good. Really, man. That's a, yeah, that is a really cool spinoff of like an Airbnb per se. And then, um, having the platform of geek out makes it even more compelling. That that's a really big brain idea. I love that. Um, what is your number one prediction for DTC in 2022?

Nick Shackelford (00:47:11):

Uh, the number one prediction, the, the, the resurgence of Facebook, um, I'm, I'm putting a lot of a I'm I'm like heavily investing in it on the stock market, and I'm obviously heavily investing into where they're going. Like, there's a reason why they went meta on this and I'll use this pun intended because that is going to be, be the investment of where marketing dollars will be, AR VR, experiential, whatever it is like Facebook's trying to go there despite the need that they need to still continue to focus on the advertising platform that they currently have. I know it's gonna come back to, there's no way that they can be that turned off or, or that blind to what's happening. We, so I'm a partner in, we are Luci, which is a, a CBD and a THC and a conscious compound advertising platform. Yeah. Before this was huge issues.

Nick Shackelford (00:47:55):

Like you couldn't get C B, D, or even anything that referred to THC live. You can, there's a reason why you can, because Facebook needs rev. So we are, we are spending significant dollars here, not, and it's not like, oh, we're trying to hide. Like, we're by the book, we're following the regulations. We're talking with the reps and she's going like, cool. As long as you're green, as long as you follow along and you play nice in the sandbox that we're renting for you, you can continue to grow. Facebook's not dumb. They need this. Like, why do you see all these NFT projects getting, uh, chilled across platforms? Because they know they need these, this, if they know they need the rev. So I think there, we will understand. And I think the, the understanding up until this point, it was really something big in 20, 20, 20, 21, really something big that started in 2021 is you actually have to understand the attribution model in which your, your business is operating within. Yes. Before there was a triple web before there was like these red track and all these other like tools and softwares, like you actually could just get by, by looking at ROEs on a platform and be like, uh, I think we're making money, but now you can't like, there's no, there's no BS around this. You have to at least know what you're looking at and where you're looking at it. Um, cuz you're not gonna get the, the, the data that you need in the platforms.

Rabah Rahil (00:49:05):

I love it. Love it. Love that we need, we need more conflict on this. We're agreeing too much. Um, oh, here's a spicy one. Um, who do you view as better agencies or freelancers and why?

Nick Shackelford (00:49:17):

Oh, at Savannah, I'm sure she got thoughts on this. Um, <laugh> uh, uh, I think she's

Rabah Rahil (00:49:22):

A, she's a nice gal. She's nice guy. I like her a lot, but was a unique take for sure.

Nick Shackelford (00:49:27):

RAA RAA. It was, I, I led, I was in the trenches with her. I was one of the main people that put her on stages. Like I believe in this woman, she's, she's fantastic at what she does and I, and I know firsthand what she does do. So I just have to go at her cuz we are, I have that. It'd be like that. <laugh> um, okay. I think it depends on the, the size of your business and here's why. Yep. If you are a brand that goes, I'm just starting out. I need intimacy. I need the person that's touching the buttons to have conversations with me. You need a freelancer, you need someone. That's gonna be like more employee with you. And they have the ability just by sheer size. Like they can't service tons. So like you're gonna get more of that FaceTime.

Nick Shackelford (00:50:12):

What you don't get with that is like, you might not get content. You might not get other services. They might not do everything for you. So it's gonna be really tough. And at that point they're freelancing cause they don't wanna be employee. So you have to know that they don't want to be your employee. They might be more responsive, but you is what it is. If you're on the agency side of things that what they should have and not everybody does cuz you know how this world is, they should have access to more information. They should have access to better people. They should have processes that are more efficient. They should have cross learnings, uh, across departments and, and other verticals. And they should be able to provide you options that are very like consistent and coherent. Like they're your paid media team. If you work with their email team should be able to speak the same language and plan the, the same, uh, programs across everything.

Nick Shackelford (00:50:58):

So I think what I default to listen, I loved our team when we were 15 people. I loved when we were 10 people. When I knew everything now like we jump upon our Monday morning gratitude call and I'm like, oh what's up? Like, I didn't know you joined the team. Like I can't wait to talk to you. I can't wait to see what you have. And it's just a different beast. Like it's the size that we're at or the size that we're continue to go to just a different, it's just different ballpark depending on the growth that people want.

Rabah Rahil (00:51:21):

Yeah. I, I echo the sentiments. Exactly. I think that, um, there are a lot of, uh, benefits to, uh, agencies and a lot of benefits to freelancers. It just kind of six to one half dozen or the other. And then the other thing that you could throw in there too, is like, when do you bring in house? Right? Like at what point do you, do you start looking within to um, bring somebody in? But I, I, I couldn't agree on perfect points. Eloquently put Shaq eloquently put, okay, let's go through a couple more. What is the greatest lever you pulled to get to where you are today?

Nick Shackelford (00:51:53):

Uh, personal brand. So we, we blindly went into, no, we not blindly like at common thread, there was, there was always this like unspoken tension that it was like Nick and common thread rather than the common threads Nick. And like, I knew that like I, I acknowledged that I respect that. I see that I get that. I get all the things when you, when you can build and for let's, let's put it this way. You log into your Instagram or Facebook and like you get a DM from Lulu Le like you're not like stoked to chat with Lulu. Like yeah. Like what's up like Lulu, like what? But if you get hit up from like Sarah who's Lulu, Lemon's influencer chick, you're gonna talk to her cuz it's like, that's a human. And like you just, we just act differently on this same shit goes for a business.

Nick Shackelford (00:52:39):

Same shit goes for B2B. Same shit goes for what you're doing at triple. Like you are a face of triple. Yeah. The, the, the business is important for sure. But the, the fact that we've invested 10 years in who I in Nick, what I stand for, what I believe in the businesses that we associate with just did a presentation on this. Honestly, you have the layer that is Nick shucker. You have the layer that is chase diamond. We have the things that we stand for and the things that we communicate against, um, briefly chase loves talking about Shay and his baby and his family. I love talking about my dogs and like beards. Let's just use that

Rabah Rahil (00:53:13):


Nick Shackelford (00:53:14):

So we have these things, then we have, we can identify that. Then you do another layer of that. Then you have like, we have structured, we have constant, we have geek out. We have founder. Okay. Now my brand is identified and associated with these four topics, which lends myself to like, that's like the equivalent of you going to seven 11 with a Slurpee. And you're like, cool. I want blueberry. And you're like, okay, cool. I want Rasberry. And you go like, fuck I on both. And you're like, whoa, this is different. That's a mix. I like that. I like that before. I like that. Now I really like this. That's it like, we theall that bad boy into what would look like essentially Nick and constant, Nick and Nick chase and structured, Nick chase, James. And geka like, you just, you just start like building out these spirals of levers, which pulls us into the next layer, which is like structured.

Nick Shackelford (00:53:58):

You could talk about employee growth business, what we're doing on a channel XYZ, constant, uh, SAS owner, SAS, business, creative cons geek out community experience. Like you break all of these things down. It allows you to speak about something that you're not having to lie about. Cuz you're living it, you're doing it. You just have to be conscious in what you're sharing. And that, to me, it pulls you so much more into the ability to connect and, and essentially partner with the people that you want to partner with that allows you to pull through. So like invest, it's hard to do invest in, in personal brand than it is to go. Like I need to build an outreach funnel that does cold traffic and send cold emails, which we have to do this year. We will do this year. But now that we have a moat around like no one could be a Nick, someone can be ahead of sales and close, but no one could be a Nick.

Rabah Rahil (00:54:43):

Oh, I love

Nick Shackelford (00:54:43):

That. Yeah. I feel strong about that, dude. I it's really tough. More really.

Rabah Rahil (00:54:47):

That's a really, I'm gonna have to lean into that even more. Uh that's really, really Presant okay. A few quick ones and then we'll get into the rapid fire. Is the beard real?

Nick Shackelford (00:54:56):

Uh, it is. It is.

Rabah Rahil (00:54:57):

It is real. Okay. If you say Shaq three times in a row in the mirror, do you get a 5% row as lift?

Nick Shackelford (00:55:05):

Um, uh, some will say, but what you do get is you just get more facial hair.

Rabah Rahil (00:55:10):

That's true.

Nick Shackelford (00:55:11):

So it's, that's the contract. I signed

Rabah Rahil (00:55:13):

Little bit this morning. <laugh>

Nick Shackelford (00:55:14):

As long as you click your heels together, you have to wear your heels. So all the guys out there, you put the heels on.

Rabah Rahil (00:55:20):

I love it. Um, are you really friends with Jason Courtney?

Nick Shackelford (00:55:25):

Um, unfortunately, yes,

Rabah Rahil (00:55:26):


Nick Shackelford (00:55:28):

Allegedly. I don't wanna admit

Rabah Rahil (00:55:29):

Great podcast. Great podcast. Um, do you choose your own wardrobe or is this the fiance's work?

Nick Shackelford (00:55:35):

This is mine. Although she does own a woman's clothing store and I do actually wear one of the jackets that she sells. Um, it's very, it's, it's, it's uh, very easy to wear the same thing over and over. The only difference I have is different hats. So I am I'm I'm I'm Lulu strong. I will always look like a coach that got off the field because I feel that that's my li that's my life. Like I will always be in Lulus. I always have some sort of like sport top on and I will have okay. Shoes,

Rabah Rahil (00:56:02):

Just a different locker room to you. That's

Nick Shackelford (00:56:04):

All. That's all it is.

Rabah Rahil (00:56:05):

I love it. Oh my gosh. You made into the rapid fire pump up B bomb. Okay. We're pushing up against time. So we're gonna go quickly here. Got it. Okay. University overrated, underrated,

Nick Shackelford (00:56:15):


Rabah Rahil (00:56:16):

Love it. Penalty, shoot, act overrated, underrated,

Nick Shackelford (00:56:20):

Neither appropriate

Rabah Rahil (00:56:22):

Appropriately rated. I like it. You can have evenly rated. I like it. Skiing overrated, underrated.

Nick Shackelford (00:56:28):

Um, underrated only because I haven't done it yet, but excited to do it.

Rabah Rahil (00:56:32):

Oh, okay. I didn't know that the next one owning a cabin. Overrated. Underrated.

Nick Shackelford (00:56:37):

Oh, underrated, underrated,

Rabah Rahil (00:56:39):

Underrated. It's looking really good. I'm so happy. Um, O owning an agency, overrated, underrated

Nick Shackelford (00:56:46):

De underrated.

Rabah Rahil (00:56:51):


Nick Shackelford (00:56:51):

Do I get context or we just keep going?

Rabah Rahil (00:56:53):

No, you can. Yeah, absolutely. This is your show. I'm just a witness baby

Nick Shackelford (00:56:56):

Underrated. Because the, the, for, for me, for my position right now, the deal flow, the partnerships, the, uh, exclusivity, the, uh, growth personally, and across the team. Um, and the actual impact that you could have on your life and other people's lives and businesses.

Rabah Rahil (00:57:16):

I love it. How can you not love this guy? People? Uh, what gives you more gray hair? Constant or structured?

Nick Shackelford (00:57:23):


Rabah Rahil (00:57:24):

Structured. Yes. Uh, favorite city in Cali.

Nick Shackelford (00:57:28):

Favorite? Uh, Laguna beach.

Rabah Rahil (00:57:31):

Ooh, good choice. Good choice. Lakers or galaxy.

Nick Shackelford (00:57:35):

Oh man. Mom would say Lakers. I would say galaxy, but with Beckham.

Rabah Rahil (00:57:40):

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was such a, what a grab, right? Oh, my gala like this it's so funny how the MLS is kind of like this age league, right? Where you get like these European superstars outta either the European or the English premiership or Laga or the Buddhi league. And they come over and they still do well. Like they,

Nick Shackelford (00:57:56):

They collect a bag and they just leave

Rabah Rahil (00:57:59):

It's laters. Um, favorite meal and why

Nick Shackelford (00:58:03):

Favorite meal and why? Um, my favorite meal is pizza. Um, here's why pizza is never bad. Like you it's really difficult to fuck up a pizza. Totally agree. Unless you burn it, which is like, okay, like that's on you. But pizza is a, it's a great vessel, um, of delivery for food, a great vessel for creativity and it's, you can get a personal pie. You don't have to share.

Rabah Rahil (00:58:25):

I love it. Any particular configuration that you prefer?

Nick Shackelford (00:58:29):

I'm traditional. I'm a, I'm a, I'm a pep guy. Just pep and cheese.

Rabah Rahil (00:58:32):

Same, same.

Nick Shackelford (00:58:33):

I love it. Simple pie,

Rabah Rahil (00:58:34):

Simple man. Simple pleasures. I love it. Uh, favorite DTC event besides geek out.

Nick Shackelford (00:58:39):

Um, so one I'm interested in that I will be attending this year is going to be grow LA. So it's like grow.co, but they have, they, they aren't performance. They're like over index on, on retail and brand. And it's like, I'm excited to see what these guys are all about, but they are, uh, something that I'm really excited for.

Rabah Rahil (00:58:57):

That sounds fun. We'll throw some geek out stuff in the show notes as well. If you guys wanna get this year looks incredible. Uh, favorite place to travel to and why, or travel to and why?

Nick Shackelford (00:59:07):

Um, currently, so the most consistent place I've been is, has been Barcelona. I love this for two reasons. Yeah. We've done three, three times now. Soon to before. Um, I we're gonna get married in Barcelona. That's the plan. Oh, wow. Um, it's going

Rabah Rahil (00:59:21):

That's they have, oh, go ahead. Sorry.

Nick Shackelford (00:59:24):

No, you,

Rabah Rahil (00:59:25):

They have the, uh, the Basilica there, right? The unfinished churches in Barcelona. That beautiful one. That's like a hundred years in the building and it's still just not done.

Nick Shackelford (00:59:33):

Nope. They just are like, let's just keep building. It's so cool. Yeah. Um, how

Rabah Rahil (00:59:36):


Nick Shackelford (00:59:36):

It's a beautiful city. It's cons. It's consistent whether to California and the, the experience in the city, a lot of younger, uh, good energy, good vibes. And it's kind of close close-ish to the beach.

Rabah Rahil (00:59:49):

Love it. Yeah. I I've been Spains on the list for sure. Bar imagery at the host. Um, favorite podcast you've been on,

Nick Shackelford (00:59:56):

Uh, the one that just happened, uh, before this one, of course you gonna say, uh, it was with, uh, perpetual PO uh, perpetual traffic. Yep. I've been, I've been listening to that for years and it was very excited to finally be on it.

Rabah Rahil (01:00:11):

Yeah. I need to listen to that. It's been getting, uh, RA reviews from the, uh, Twitter crowd. So I need to hop on that. Uh, favorite follow on Twitter.

Nick Shackelford (01:00:19):

Uh, Gary V

Rabah Rahil (01:00:21):

Ah, Gary vegan. Hi, let shit that smells some sneakers people. It makes fucking

Nick Shackelford (01:00:26):

Money. OFTs OFTs

Rabah Rahil (01:00:28):

<laugh> OFTs okay. Last question. You've made it through the rapid fire and the whole show. Um, if you could have dinner with any three people dead or alive, who would it be? So this is a four person table. You have one of the seats and you can invite three people. They can be fictional, nonfictional, dead, or live. Who would they be?

Nick Shackelford (01:00:44):

Ooh, Darth Vader.

Rabah Rahil (01:00:49):

Oh, I think you're the first to go fictional. This makes me so happy.

Nick Shackelford (01:00:52):

Um, we need the poo, um, and then prob probably Donald Trump to see, to see what happens there. Like why I, I think the conversations would be fantastic.

Rabah Rahil (01:01:11):

That's incredible. That's probably the best three I've ever heard. Um, well done, Nick, you made it through rapid fire. Thank you so much for coming on. Tell the people where to find you, plug whatever you need to plug this time is yours. My man,

Nick Shackelford (01:01:23):

Um, I am shackle Ford on Twitter. Um, very active and you can find me on all the sources we've got structure. We have constantly have geek out. So on all those three are close to my heart and I, I hope you guys enjoyed the talk. Thanks, robs.

Rabah Rahil (01:01:36):

Awesome. Thanks again, Nick. We are outta here. People episode 15 is in the books. Um, if you do wanna get more involved with triple well, you can go to try triple well.com to sign up. If you don't already follow us, we're on the Twitters at tri triple whale. And then we also have a phenomenal publication called whale mail that goes out every Tuesday, Thursday. Um, so we would love to have you sign up for that. And, uh, that's it, Nick, again, thanks so much for your time and the eloquent answers and thoughtful responses, man. I think people are really gonna dig this and uh, we'll see everybody else on the flip. Thanks again.

Nick Shackelford (01:02:08):

Hey, Kirk.

One Tab
To Replace Them All

Supercharge your growth with a purpose-built ecomOS for brands and agencies.

Get Started
Start Making More Money
Start Making More Money
Start Making More Money
Start Making More Money
Get a Tour
Before ...
Ads Manager
Triple Whale