Eli Weiss (00:00):

Growth teams are very, very, very straightforwardly focused on like, how can I get cheap acquisition? And the problem with that is sometimes you're selling something that doesn't exist because it gets people through the funnel, right? And that's like, well, the rest of the team will deal with that. We think about that with ads. We think about that with the site experience, like, what are you expecting? We think about that with shipping and delivery. We think about that with returns and even flavor. Like, are we saying this taste 10 times better than a Coke? Because if that's the case, people might be disappointed. But if we say this is really delicious and at two grams of sugar, instead of 40, then we're framing it differently. And those expectations play in every single part of the experience. And so often we've seen brands just like, oh, this is a customer support problem. They'll handle it. And it's like, no, this is an expectation problem. That started way before the person came to the support team.

Rabah Rahil (00:57):

Here we are. Ladies and gentlemen with the Ali pop hustler, Eli Weiss. How are you? My friend. Thank you for coming on.

Eli Weiss (01:07):

I'm good. Um, I really appreciate you having me. I oh, I've recently

Rabah Rahil (01:11):

You froze. Maybe. Let's see. Did I, is that my, oh, there we go. You're perfect. There we go. I forgot to tell you too. So all this is actually recording locally, so, um, I don't think that'll happen again, but if it does, we can kind of keep rolling with it. But anyways, da, da, da as always. I mean, what a perfect example, right? Like how, how do we get through this customer experience where this might not be the ideal start to the pod, but now we're, we're laid out. Right? And so, uh, it's the

Eli Weiss (01:37):

Recovery,

Rabah Rahil (01:39):

Right? It's not necessarily where you were, right. It's where you're going and how you deal with that hardship and make sure that empathy comes across to the, the client or the consumer. But before we get into all that, I am here in the Austin HQ of triple whale. Where does this podcast find you?

Eli Weiss (01:56):

I am in Philadelphia.

Rabah Rahil (01:57):

Oh yeah. Yeah. I love it. City of brotherly love. Awesome. How long have you been in PA?

Eli Weiss (02:02):

I moved from Brooklyn in August. So fairly, fairly new, uh, if anyone has any good, any good food spots to recommend the, the pizza spot I have to go to, please hit me up.

Rabah Rahil (02:13):

Oh, I love that. What, what prompted the, uh, Brooklyn? That's a really slick area, man. I had, uh, I used to work for, uh, agency called flat iron, uh, many Mungo and they were in New York and, um, we would always play around like the Williamsburg kind of like Brooklyn's a spot. It was a really, really hip area.

Eli Weiss (02:29):

Yeah. So grew up in Jersey, lived in, uh, lived in Washington Heights for a couple of years. Went to Israel, um, for a little trip to meet. Some friends got stuck there for four years. Um, <laugh> uh, got married there, moved back to the states, lived in Brooklyn for a couple of years. Have a lot of family there grew up nearby and wife started med school in Philly, in August. So we just moved to Philly and we're, we're stuck here for a minute. So we'll be here for at least four years and we'll see where we'll see where it takes me after.

Rabah Rahil (02:58):

How cool. What, uh, does she have a speciality yet or is she just kind of right now getting the MD and then she'll kind of ratchet it down?

Eli Weiss (03:05):

Yeah. Yeah. We're just vibing. We're we're we're we're on vibe train. Yeah.

Rabah Rahil (03:10):

Um, is it better or worse in Brooklyn?

Eli Weiss (03:13):

It's quieter. And, and quieter comes with pro pros and cons. Um, yeah. Means that your brain makes more noise means that the external noise is somewhat quieter. So it's a it's toss up <laugh> um, but I'm getting used to it.

Rabah Rahil (03:28):

I love it. I love it. Is there, do you guys have any pets or anything?

Eli Weiss (03:32):

We have a pet child. Um, oh, he's Noah, uh, almost nine months old. Um,

Rabah Rahil (03:38):

Oh, congrats. How cool.

Eli Weiss (03:40):

Yeah. Yeah. Super, super loud and, and excited child. Um, doesn't get it from me, but, um, we're here for it and, and we're excited

Rabah Rahil (03:50):

How incredible. So you're on, you're on customer experience all across the board on the, on your work side as well. <laugh> as the, the personal side. That's fantastic. My man,

Eli Weiss (03:57):

We figured once it's chaotic, we'll, we'll go all in.

Rabah Rahil (04:01):

I love that. That's fantastic. So I was doing some little bit of stock on you. It looks like you're a bit of a vaon you've been to 34 countries. Is that right?

Eli Weiss (04:09):

Yeah. So I, uh, when most people, my age were in college, um, I decided I wanted to travel and figured out the points in miles game, um, at a, at a pretty young age. Um, so in my early twenties, 20 21, 22, I was based in Israel and traveling to Europe, um, every couple of weeks, so saw most Europe. And then couple years later went to China, Singapore, Bali. Um, so really, oh, wow. Had the, had the incredible luxury to travel very early in my life. Um, now not as much, but, uh, I originally had a plan of, I had this goal of seeing every single country, um, getting to 1 96 or 1 98. Depends what you ask now. Yeah, not so much. Um, I'm, I'm okay with seeing the 60 that I really want to see, but, but, um, you know, we shift the goalposts, but

Rabah Rahil (05:02):

That's incredible. What was the hardest visa to get?

Eli Weiss (05:07):

Um, China took the longest just because it's, you know, us Beijing,

Rabah Rahil (05:12):

Shanghai, or where

Eli Weiss (05:13):

Did you go to? Yeah, we, we spent eight days in, in Beijing and it was, it was interesting once you get that visa, they give you like a 10 year visa. So you're kind of, you're kind of in, but, um, it took a minute and it costed, I think like a hundred and something dollars, um, compared to the rest of the visas. They're fairly easy to get. So, um, yeah.

Rabah Rahil (05:33):

Did you, so what was your biggest hack? Was there like, did, was there like four X points and stuff like that? Or what, what was the, what let the people know, how can, how can people travel? Cause you, what are you 30 ish, 30 ish years old.

Eli Weiss (05:44):

Give or take yeah.

Rabah Rahil (05:46):

Give or take. Yeah. So you're still a young gun then. Yeah, yeah,

Eli Weiss (05:48):

Yeah. I am. So that the hack was, um, essentially learning how credit works and, and realizing that having a lot of cards is not a bad thing. If you, if you do do it smartly. So at, at my prime, I had 34 credit cards, um, still with a credit line of 800 and something. So I, I learned at a young, at a young 20 years old, I learned about credit from this chase bank branch manager, essentially how to build credit at a reasonable pace and, and take advantage of these new credit card bonuses. So every card you open up, you get between 50 and 120,000 points. And if, if utilized correctly and transfer to the right partner, something like that can get you, you know, a round trip, tick ticket to multiple places when you're based out of Israel, a lot of airlines consider that Europe.

Eli Weiss (06:33):

So getting from Israel to any other part of Europe is like five or 10 or 15,000 points and hotels. There are super duper cheap as well with points. So it, it just, you know, most people end up getting points and using it in park city. And those points don't really get you much as far as you know, when you think about the broader picture, you can, you can hack your way around to getting a lot more value and, and credit card companies really assume that most people just take these points and use it for cash back. And that's their ideal and, and your worst bet, but

Rabah Rahil (07:04):

How incredible I'm just, I just have anxiety like sweaty palms of keeping track of 34 cards. Like I, I just imagine this, like this huge notebook of like, just slot in what card do I need today? Like, that's whole production.

Eli Weiss (07:17):

It's pretty simple. So my, my wallet is just a tiny one that looks like this. And, and I just use a few cards in a rotation. Um, so every couple of months I'll swap cards based on what I need to spend on. But, uh, it's not as wild as, as one might think <laugh>, but this is probably an episode ended of itself.

Rabah Rahil (07:35):

No. What no wonder you got the fancy sculptures that we were talking about offline now, now I see how you're building this <laugh>

Eli Weiss (07:42):

Yeah. Real, real wealth. Yeah.

Rabah Rahil (07:44):

So you've did all this travel. How did, how did you break into e-comm? How did you break into kind of retail? How did you break into customer experience? Like give us some background there. Yeah.

Eli Weiss (07:55):

So grew up in the ultra Orthodox Jewish world. Um, didn't really have any education per se. Um, went to, you know, went to Israel, traveled a lot. Um, so really started very, very late. Um, my passion has always been customer service. Like I hate bad experience is so much, um, when a customer, when a person myself spend money on something, been excited for for months and finally pull that trigger and have a mediocre or worse than expected experience. It really pissed me off as, as a young, you know, 12 year old and 10 year old. Um, always thought that it wasn't like, I just remember being like a really furious kid being like, I saved this money for months and then I bought something and it takes three weeks to get here. Like, how's that fair? And I remember just hearing those canned responses kind of over and over and over.

Eli Weiss (08:46):

It's like, I'm sorry, sir. Unfortunately, there's nothing we can do. And I'd be thinking like, it feels like a, you can just take a little accountability and I'd be less angry. Um, and just seeing that as a, as a, it, it felt like there was like, the hack was just being a person and it, it felt like it was always very easy to be mad at a brand or like at this like person that doesn't have a face or a name when it's, you know, when you put a person in front of it, it's, it's, it's less difficult to be angry. Um, so pretty much traveling a lot, came back to Israel and was looking to either, you know, did my G E D uh, diploma equivalent was excited to either hop into college or figure out a way to kind of hack hack the system the same way I did with travel.

Eli Weiss (09:24):

And, and essentially my, my thought back then was if I'm based out of Israel, there's a huge startup scene, but the, the bulk of the people there don't speak a native English. So that was my, my hack was like, I can do any job that you'd like me to, I'll leave my ego at the door and I speak English and I have this native English, um, capability and essentially was obsessed with travel, got excited about luggage. Um, took me like four ish years to realize that I, I hate luggage. I love traveling, um, but got excited about luggage and hopped into this Kickstarter brand. And they were, you know, multiple years delayed on a production and everyone wanted a refund. So in terms of like customer service, it was the worst place it can be. And I've shared, I've shared this story quite a couple times about like how we, we, we hypothesized about what we can do to turn the business around.

Eli Weiss (10:09):

And, and customer service turned the business around full stop. Um, and that was really my, my foray into kind of eCommerce and CPG and spent a couple years there doing everything from business development, investor relations, trade shows, um, sales, marketing strategy, customer service ops, you know, sending these Kickstarter orders to 65 countries. Um, and then basically COVID hit and luggage. Wasn't a hot seller and swore I wouldn't touch food and beverage. My family has been in that world for 50 ish years. Um, but here I am so hopped into nuggets in, in, in, uh, which is now simulate in, in 2020. And, and then shortly thereafter hopped into lollipop, again, a brand that was doing incredibly well then, and, and has really rocketed over the last kind of year and a half, two years. But, um, that's the gist of it.

Rabah Rahil (11:01):

Yeah. I love that. And I just have this, this incredible, uh, kind of mental model of, uh, a 12 year old Eli getting called Sur just dressing somebody down. Where is my package? Where is your package? It was brutal. That's amazing. Yeah. That's amazing. Um, wow. What a cool journey. And so, uh, what do you think the resources you used or like, was there frameworks or like what, how did you gain? Because I would consider you kind of at the pinnacle or very, very, uh, top tier in terms of CX. And really like, if I was building a CX team, like we have a fantastic customer success team, but I would really emulate you. Like, I think in terms of the way you think about it and, and you're so young and you really haven't had like a ton of actual, like CX experience outside of NUS and lollipop, right? Like it's been more of a S mortgage Borg of, um, whatever you need done. I get done. So how did you gain like this, this, you know, top tier mastery of customer success?

Eli Weiss (12:00):

Yeah. I, I really appreciate you saying that. Um, thank you. I, I think the, the first and foremost is, you know, coming from a non-traditional background, N nothing for me was, was accepted at face value. Um, it was always like, how would I want to be treated and, and less so of a, you know, of a rule book and a playbook. And I think that's, that's kind of been the downfall of, of most parts of startup world is that as time has gone on, there's been playbooks and there's like, somebody will tell you how to run Facebook ads. And somebody will tell you how to run TikTok ads. And somebody will tell you how to deal with customer experience. And those playbooks have really, I, in my opinion, have, have helped a lot of people, but really disrupted a lot of other people's strategies because people, every business is different.

Eli Weiss (12:42):

And I think that the framework, the only like framework that I had, you know, is, is if I was the customer, how would I want to be treated? And I think it, it comes, it comes to a point where it's like, well, it has to be good for the business. And I think there's, it's obviously not a zero sum game, right? It's like, you can have instances where you can really, really, really mess up as a business, right? Like in, in the case of a luggage company that people order two years earlier and expect it to get the product, and they're being told it's here, it's here. And it's, you know, like that's like, according to everyone, this luggage company screwed up. Right. And it's like, but, but it's, how do you, how do you frame that and how do you think about that and how do you explain to the customers what you really wanna do with this and where you messed up and being very forward and upfront.

Eli Weiss (13:25):

And that's my, the biggest thing I, I constantly talk about is setting those expectations and for a CPG brand, that's like supply chain issues and there's warehousing issues, and there's shipping delays. It's like, there's, there's things happening across the board and setting those expectations and delivering on them is, is, feels like a bar that's so low, but so many brands optimized for like, how can we go above and beyond? And what I, what I describe is like, you know, those, those peaks instead of filling the valleys. Um, and that's really like the biggest thing that I, that I've learned over the last couple of years is like, how can we just focus on just delivering on expectations, full stop.

Rabah Rahil (14:02):

I love that. And that's funny that you say that because as like, uh, so this podcast has been great, cuz I get to pick the brains of like really high top tier experts. And that's almost what everybody comes back to his first principles of like, if we can get these first principles, right? Like the delight will come from that. But, but if you start concentrating and getting overcomplicated and really losing the forest for the trees, if you will, it can be challenging. And um, there's also a certain aspect of, I think people have a really good BS detector and um, when you stop being insincere or not genuine, genuine about, um, to your point setting expectations properly, because that to me is, uh, so I come from an economics background it's called anchoring like price anchoring. Right. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and so it's kind of same, same, but different.

Rabah Rahil (14:51):

It's almost cognitive anchoring where it's like, oh cool. I'm expecting X or I'm expecting Y yeah. And like that let down is so severe. It's way better to be upfront, take the loss and deal with it versus kicking. This can down the road because at a certain point it becomes a Tinder box and all it takes is like a misworded tweet or something like that. And then everybody just piles on when it's like, dude, we're a company, things happen. We have some shipping delays. Here's how we can make it better. Here's what we're doing to try and make it better. We understand like this sucks for you and this wasn't our intention, but here's what it is. And you know, obviously you're still gonna catch flack for that, but at least there is a foundational ground of like, you know, people make mistakes. It is what it is.

Rabah Rahil (15:32):

You can't perpetually do this, right? Like you can't, you can only go to the well so many times, but I've found that that transparency actually plays a lot better, um, in getting people to empathize where it's like, Hey, we're just humans too. And we're trying to do our best. And we missed the mark this time. I'm sorry. You know, here's where we were. Here's where we are and here's where we're going. And however, I can make this right. Let me know. And if we can do it, we'll do it. But, um, when you get into these kind of really like the Peloton stuff, I've been just fascinated with it, how it just got so wrecked, uh, 70, I think it's 76% off its hot. Like, I mean just absolutely wrecked. And one of the debacles, there was the T treadmill thing where the, uh, cus consumer reports are like, Hey, this or not consumer reports, whatever the governing body is in the states is like there's dogs and babies getting hurt, like pretty severely, like you need to take this off the market.

Rabah Rahil (16:17):

They're like, no, that's not true. They O they're being absolutely overzealous. This isn't right at all. And then they're like, yeah, this is actually happening. And then they have to make this retraction. And then at that point it was just, I mean, it couldn't have been mismanaged anymore, in my opinion, obviously the stock price reflects that. But I, I think that's just kind of a pressing example of what you're talking about there to be, be just really, again, those first principles and like, what if you were buying this product, how would you want to be treated? And it sounds so silly, right? It sounds almost like juvenile, but at the same time, it's like, <laugh> my opinion. Like some of the best expert advices, like that's, that's it.

Eli Weiss (16:52):

Yeah. I think that's spot on, um, the, the two things I kind of think about, um, when, when we think about, you know, customer experience broadly is like number one, taking accountability. And I think your point about taking accountability is, is spot on again, it's, it's the focus for me is twofold, right? Number one, it's like, we're not just saying this never happened. And, and then, you know, we consumers lose trust. But the second part that's also super fascinating is it's so easy to be pissed off and angry at lollipop. It's so much more difficult to be angry at Eli or Janelle or anyone else on my team. And that's really the, the, the number one, like that's the, the strong point is like being a person versus being a canned response behind a computer of a brand that you're like, oh, we hate brands because it, it's super hard to be angry at a person that did nothing wrong and it's just doing their best.

Eli Weiss (17:40):

Get you your order. The second thing that's super fascinating is when you talk about anchoring and, and, and anchoring on the price side, but also anchoring on the expectation side, I think it's, it's a, it's a very, very, uh, spot on, um, comment. And, and we think about that we've seen across even across shipping, right? For example, we have ups or FedEx shipping three to five days. Then we have OHI, which does same day. Next day. We've seen that if we are two days late with UPSs, people are very okay with that because they're like, oh, it's ups. They kind of messed up. If we're three hours late on a same day, delivery, customers go off the hook. So it's that expectation. It's like, if we said this will come here tomorrow and it gets there today, people are like, wow. But if we say, they'll get there in two hours, people are already desensitized to the two hour mark that you gave as like, oh my God, how do you even do that?

Eli Weiss (18:27):

And to get there in three hours of people, like the whole thing is not worth it. And we think about that framing across every part of the experience. We think about that as far as the ads, like, what are these ads promoting? Right. It's like growth teams are very, very, very straightforwardly focused on like, how can I get cheap acquisition? And the, the problem with that is sometimes you're, you're, you're selling something that doesn't exist because it gets people through the funnel. Right. Um, and that, and that's like, well, the rest of the team will deal with that. But we think about, like, we think about that with ads. We think about that with the site experience, like, what are you expecting? We think about that with shipping and delivery. We think about that with returns and even flavor, like, are we saying this tastes 10 times better than a Coke, because if that's the case, people might be disappointed. But if we say this is really delicious and it's two grams of sugar instead of 40 we're framing it differently. And that's like those expectations play in every single part of the experience. And so often we've seen brands just like, oh, this is a customer support problem. They'll handle it. And it's like, no, this is an expectation problem. That started way before the person came to the support team.

Rabah Rahil (19:31):

I love that. I love how you look at kind of the holistic experience of, um, starting from touching and ad all the way to, um, shipping times. I think that's something that gets really lost. And, um, that, that, I think that's really what, what sets you apart? Um, okay. One last question for the main segment. So how do you stay so happy, healthy, and productive. So I see you on the Twitters. I see you like, and now I didn't even know you had a kiddo, so you have a kiddo wifeys in med school. Like that's a lot on your plate. How, how do you balance all that?

Eli Weiss (20:03):

I'd be, I'd be remiss. If I said I'm always happy, healthy, and productive. Um, I think that's the, that's the tremendous downfall of social media as people share their highlights. So I'll stop you there. Um, definitely not always happy, healthy, and productive, but, um, I think with everything else it's balanced, right? It's like, it's, it's, it's balanced both on the gratitude side. It's balanced both on the work side. Right. It's like I push my team. Like we just instituted mental health Fridays where people on the CX team will take one Friday off a month. Like it's, it's balanced with everything. It's like people that hustle hard generally have to pay for it at some point. Yes. Um, so we really, we, we, when I say we, I mean me at work me in my life, me and my relationship, me with my child, like we, I try to balance everything. Um, have super hectic days, have super quiet days where I just catch up on email. Um, so, so try to try to keep things balanced, but happy, healthy, and productive three things I'm striving for, but definitely not fully there always <laugh> so thank you

Rabah Rahil (21:07):

Though. I love that. I, well, I love the candidness. That's beautiful. I think you're right. Sometimes there is a bit of, uh, uh, I can't remember who said this, but, um, it was somebody kind of basically getting to the point that you're making of, like, if you wanna trade spots with somebody, you have to realize like you take their whole life. You don't just take this one sliver, you know, where it's like, you see this like sliver and like, oh my gosh, I would love that. And you're like, man, you have no idea what's going on behind the scenes there. And sometimes, you know, um, it drives that weird, not jealousy, but this kind of, to your point, like a bit misrepresentation where it's like, you know, everybody's usually going through something. So be, be loving out there. People on socials spread the light, not the dark. Uh, fantastic. Well, you made it through the main segment already flying through. You got the LLI pop halfway done. Let's do it. Okay. Let's get into the value, add segment. This is why people bought the ticket. Um, what are the best parts and hardest parts of running into the customer experience team?

Eli Weiss (22:01):

The best parts are definitely the people like, uh, if you put together a squad of people that have a similar vision to you and have the ability to inspire them. That's so, so meaningful. When we think about customer support, most people come to come to my team with problems. Like they expected something we didn't deliver. They hate the product. They think it tastes terrible. They, it came too late. And anything about the, the that's a lot of negativity for the most part, right? Like the, the, the percentage of, oh my God, this was the best thing ever. Thank you are, are very small. Um, so I think that's like, you know, working with great people that are excited to take those, you know, frowns and turn them upside down is, is the best part, right? Like working with people that frankly I'm inspired by, um, every day is incredible.

Eli Weiss (22:46):

The hardest part is the flip side of that. It's really disappointing. Like if you're really good at CX, you have this kind of superpower that you can read between the lines and deeply feel things. And when we have a situation where somebody reaches out and they've ordered seven times and had an issue with six of the orders because of a shipping issue, that really sucks. And it's like, I, I, I can't, you know, run to Montana, pick it up and bring it to you in Texas, but I can like do my best to resolve it. But it, it really sucks. And somebody reaches out that they got it and the can explode it. It's not a big deal to can of soda, but it's like, you know, these instances that you can't just wave a Wanda and fix are, are, you know, can be difficult.

Eli Weiss (23:27):

There can be a day where a bunch of people just slide in the DMS with not nice things. Right? Yeah. It's like, it, it weighs on you. And if, if you're, if you're good at this, you feel it very deeply. So the hardest part is making sure that, you know, I prioritize everyone's mental health and make sure that people are telling me when they need to take time and, and, you know, kind of keeping people, um, healthy and happy, you know, mentally and physically. So that's like the most challenging, I shouldn't say hardest, but the most challenging part of, of running the CX team is, you know, just in general, the, the CX people are, I've heard this a couple times or like the, the turnovers is so fast on a CX team because people aren't getting paid very well. They're generally not put on a pedestal, like they should be. So that's, it's something that, you know, I've been trying to talk more about and, and change, but it's, it's not the work of one person. So <laugh>, um, we're working on it.

Rabah Rahil (24:24):

I absolutely love that. And there there's a certain aspect too, kind of like you said, um, the it's the gift and the curse, right. Of like that empathy is really important for a really high level CX person, but at the same time, um, you know, not being able to block that out cuz so I, I used to run competitively in university and I don't remember any of my wins, but I remember the losses.

Eli Weiss (24:47):

Wow.

Rabah Rahil (24:48):

<laugh> and so it's, it's kind of like that kind of stuff where it's like, I can imagine that, you know, all these people, I love this, I love that, but it's that one Barb that gets thrown at you and you just can't stop thinking about it. And it's just like, oh my gosh, you had 10 amazing comments, but then there's those two comments that really just, you know, great on you. And to your point too, it's challenging where, you know, maybe it's an infrastructure thing maybe to your point, it's way further up the chain and you're just catching the flack for it now. And there's really, sometimes there's not any resolution other than I'm sorry, and we'll do better next time. And that, that, you know, that can fall flat sometimes and rightfully so where it's just, it is what it is. And it's just a challenge where sometimes the, you know, you gotta take the L and hope you can do better next time. But I, I love that, man. That's fantastic. Yeah. I appreciate that. Um, when evaluating customer experiences, what is the most important thing you look for?

Eli Weiss (25:37):

Um, how expectation meets reality? I think that there's so much, you know, commerce started from people buying from other people. Um, yeah. The internet really changed that. Whereas you're now buying from a black box. I think that brand has been, you know, and we heard Cody from Jones road talking about that a lot. How, how brand is so imperative to, to, to experience broadly and, and brand really creates this almost facade of like, there's a person there's like something emotional that you're feeling. Um, but for the most part, you know, people purchasing on eBay or Grailed, or stock X or Amazon, you're, you're just buying from this thing. Um, and, and there's been like, you know, the, the wishes of the world that have, you know, like you buy something that looks like X and you get it. You're like, well, this is, you know, and we've seen celebrities, launch brands where customers get it and they drag them all over Twitter.

Eli Weiss (26:28):

Like this is not what it looked like when you were wearing it. Yeah. Um, and I think that's really like, there's like almost this like trauma for consumerism around, like we generally don't even like our expectations are so low and we order something online that like, it'll never look as good as it did on the model. It'll never look as good as it looked in that poor shop. So we think about that of like, how can we level set expectations? Like we obviously wanna sell this. So we're like choosing great photography and, and that's why fashion brands have models. Right. But there's also that level setting of expectations. And I think that's for me as a consumer, it's like, if I ever buy anything online, I'm like, I'm, I'm matching it to the expectation I had when I click the place order. And the closer I can get to that, the better, the more spot on I feel like is, you know, the broader experience, obviously, when I think about like, what goes wrong with a brand experience and how they handle it.

Eli Weiss (27:21):

And I've, I've shared this quite a couple times, cuz it drives me absolutely insane, but I've like ordered a pair of shoes from a brand for like 150 or $200 and got the shoes and they were too small and they said, sure, you can return it. And then once I sent it back, they gave me store credit and it's like, they didn't have the shoe anymore. So now I'm like, now I can buy a t-shirt but like I never want. And you're like those like, and, and these brands obviously hold all the power because it's a streetwear brand and it's super cool. And they sell out in minutes and it's like, you, you hold the power. So you keep getting those purchases. But the, the emotional power like that brand, when you think about a brand, it's like, will I die for this brand? And, and I don't know that that's like a, a place people have to be like, I don't think people have to die for a brand.

Eli Weiss (28:01):

But like, do I feel that level of like, I'm obsessed with this brand? No. I think wearing their clothing makes me look cool. So I might continue giving them money, but am I, am I at that? And you know, you'll see people argue about this on Twitter all the time. It's like, who cares? If you have a brand you're making money. And it's like, well, those are two different things, right? Like making money and creating, you know, this, this visionary brand thing, like, you know, apple is apple, they're making money and they have a brand. There are plenty of companies that do a lot of revenue, but people don't feel anything towards it. And I think the real, exactly people hate. Right.

Rabah Rahil (28:32):

Right. And it's, they print money. It's a fantastic business, but it's

Eli Weiss (28:35):

A whole, I hate, I think about like the, the, where that the stills down to is like referrals, word of mouth, genuine referrals. Like that's where you really see the difference between brand. It's like, nobody tells you like, oh, you better check out at and T and if you said that, it's because you have a family plan, you wanna discount <laugh>. But it's like, it's really like that. It's like, how do we, how, and that's what it distills down to is like, where is that word of mouth magic coming? And I think about that, you know, marketers hate word of mouth because you can't measure it. Right. We like things that we can measure. But when you create that brand, like anyone that asks me what laptop they should buy, I'm not telling them Lenovo. Right. It's like, I'm, I'm telling them apple, like, you wanna be cool, get a MacBook. Right. It's it's and it's like that, that level of brand, like, you know, that's, that's like what? That's like my aspiration when working with a companies, like how can we get to that, that place where people are just organically saying like, Hey dude, I know you're drinking a lot of diet Coke. It's not great for you check, check out lollipop or whatever it is. Um,

Rabah Rahil (29:37):

Right. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. I have a thesis where, um, I don't think you can have a great brand with a bad product. I think you can have a great brand with a mediocre product, but I don't think you can have a great brand with a bad product. Like it eventually catches up with you.

Eli Weiss (29:51):

<laugh> I'd agree. I'd agree. I think, I think marketers have marketers only have that many chances. Right. It's like, and we think about that in the frame of LTV, right? It's like cheap pack only gets you so far, right? Like cheap C gets you that first order. But it's like, if you ask any marketer it's like, and that, and that's like, we talk about that as, as far as like incentives, right? When you think about agency incentive being like, how can you get me a lot of dollars with this couple of thousand dollars and giving you a month and they're getting a commission based on revenue they're bringing in and the cheaper, the C the better it is, but nobody's looking at LTV. Right. And the, the, the, the double on that is like cheap C customers. Generally, haven't been brought through a long enough funnel. Haven't had enough education around the product, and they're probably less likely to refer people. So aside from their own LTV, you're thinking about referral LTV. So I think it's like, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a very long conversation around like the incentives. But I think that's like the most important thing for us is like, how can we bring super fans into this? And that's like, you know,

Rabah Rahil (30:54):

I love that. And I think kind of the pile on even more is when you do acquire people that wanna be integrated into the story and they feel an emotional connection, there's a lot more leeway there where the, you know, they're, they're gonna be way, like, that's why I always thought Groupon was just such a horrible idea. Like good on him. Andrew Mason made a shit ton of money. You know, I'm, I'm happy he did that. But like, they were just the worst customers. All like, I, I, I don't, I very rarely think that price is the objection. It's usually a, I don't see value in it. Or maybe I just literally don't have the resources. That's not the same thing as that cost too much where it's like, you just don't value it, or you don't have the resources. That's totally. And so I think price is just this knee jerk reaction that people say, oh, it costs too much.

Rabah Rahil (31:38):

What's does it, does it cost too much? Or is it more so like, you're just not connecting with the brand. You don't see how you can generate the value from this purchase. Um, so on and so forth. And so I, I think that to your point, CX should almost be seen. And I think you do a great job of this, but almost as a retention play where you you're really gonna have this kind of really amazing experience throughout this whole product journey or essentially life cycle of your interaction with the brand and CX. And we, we talked about it on other podcast as well. I think CX is one of the most interesting parts of the marketing ecosystem, because it's the only place, the only place that you can either make an evangelist or like a, I will hate you for life person. Like you can't do that with a product.

Rabah Rahil (32:21):

You can't do that pretty much. Any other, not with an email, not with a video, not even in person events, like really, because you're so charged up. And in that moment of charged up, you're super vulnerable. And if you're not taken care of in that super vulnerable way, you are gonna lash back 10 times harder than you really needed to. And, or, or if you do get, you know, um, uh, interacted with in the way that you deserve, you're gonna become an evangelist. And I've seen people that evangelize stuff that like, it wasn't even a good experience, but the CX team has done such a good job of bringing them around that. They're like, oh yeah, my thing didn't get here. My Olli pop can exploded, blah, blah, blah. But I still can't wait to try the Cola. You're just like how, and I, I think that's one of the most unique opportunities that, um, kind of the customer success customer experience, uh, team has that pretty much no other part of the market and ecosystem has.

Eli Weiss (33:15):

I I'd agree with you a hundred percent. I think the, the interesting thing we think about, especially when you're talking about a food and beverage, you know, obviously taste preferences vary, and we don't all like the same things and you'll see me drop, drop comments all over Twitter of anyone that says like, lollipop tastes like, you know, like garbage and I'll be like, I'm so sorry. You didn't like it. Let me know your order number will give you a full refund. And the objective for us is like, we really strongly believe that if somebody didn't have a great experience with the product, but still loved the way the brand treated them after they have the potential to tell, they can be a word of mouth referral referral for us by saying like, Hey, I know you're trying to quit soda lollipop. I didn't like it because X, Y, and Z, but you might really love it. And the brand is really great. And that's like, if I can turn detractors into this roundabout promoters, like that is that's my dream. And again, not trackable, but I know that if I had a terrible experience, because I didn't like something, and I know it's my own preference, I will still tell other people about it. If I think the product is, is a great product at heart. And I think it makes sense.

Rabah Rahil (34:18):

I, I love that. And I'm, I'm kind of same, same vein as well, where, um, yeah, like sometimes it just doesn't fit your preference set, but that doesn't mean it's a bad product. Right. And so you can still recommend it to other people. And to your point, if it there's people that want that value, um, on those certain value vectors that you're offering, it's, uh, it's fantastic. And, and you just don't feel so burnt. Like, there's just a certain aspect of like, I don't know, getting taken advantage of or something where like, you want to yell at somebody cuz I gave you money, my heart earned money. And uh, I think it also rolls back to what you were saying earlier. That expectation setting, that social contract that we established, you broke it and I feel betrayed now and now I'm gonna yell at you cuz uh, you betrayed me. I, I love that, man.

Eli Weiss (34:57):

I appreciate it. Yeah. We see people just like, like tweeting without like they don't even write at lollipop or anything. They're just like lollipop is the worst. I hate these influencers. And I'm like, I don't know who you expected to read that, but I'm here. <laugh> and, and let's talk about it. Like, let's talk about it. Where did you buy it? Why did you not like it? Can I send you some coupons so you can try out a different flavor? Can I fully refund it? Can I give you something else? And I, I think that I obviously blows people away cause they're, they're tweeting that into the abyss and they don't expect Eli to hop in there. But I think to your point, right? Like people are supercharged and they've spent a lot of money on a product that might be worth it. Um, I don't know if they felt like it was worth it. Then if they've done the research and understood why it costs the price, it costs, but being able to kind of let them down slowly is, is definitely a big plus. So I, I agree.

Rabah Rahil (35:44):

Yeah. I love that. And uh, going back to your previous point as well, putting that, I love how you say it's so easy to be mad at a brand. It's very challenging not to say you can't be mad at a person, but it, it takes a real, you know, piece of work to kind of keep that going and not to say, not to say, you know, that I haven't been there and not been always the best customer, but it's so much more challenging, um, to really, you know, unload on somebody or just somebody down versus just yelling at this nebulous brand or something like that and just screaming into the ether. Um, that's amazing in

Eli Weiss (36:14):

As much. Yeah. Like in a, in as much as you feel like the person's doing their best. Yes. Their best to resolve it.

Rabah Rahil (36:20):

Very, very good point. Very good point when they're just, you know, um, regurgitating the, uh, script or whatever, that that's super challenging, that that's almost more infuriating where you're just like, bro, you're reading off a screen right now. You're clicking through and you could almost feel them going through their like motions of like, hold on. I gotta get to this next screen. And there's these awkward pauses that aren't actually conversational. And yeah, that that's actually, that can be really challenging. Cause again, it comes across like you were talking about like if I was running a brand and I was in their shoes, like you'd wanna be, you want to feel cared for, right? Like I'm making this intimate relationship with you in a purchase. And like you basically don't care about me or that's how you feel. And then that again, sparks another whole can of worms. Um, who does the best CX, who has the best customer experience that you've, you've had? Who's your favorite?

Eli Weiss (37:09):

Oh Lord. Um, I mean there're some of the big ones like the, the Zappos and the chewies of the world. Um, yeah. You know, those are the ones I look up to, even within the realm of just like the realm of the CPG world. Um, I love what Lalo does that the they sell baby stuff. Um, Missy is there and she's crushing it. Uh, Huron on the skincare side, Matt is being, being a CEO and, and hopping into the inbox and replying to people talking about the weather at the place they're in, um, the, the personal touch, delivering things on bike, if it's near him. I mean, that's, that's next level. Um, that, so I, I just love when brands do things that, that don't scale and, and, and focus on that strongly.

Rabah Rahil (37:56):

I love that. That's amazing. Um, let's get one more in, or actually there's two more, but we have listener questions. So one more of my questions. Um, what's the biggest mistake you've seen in CX, like when people are spinning up a CX teams and you might have touched on it, is it kind of following the playbook stuff and just having those dogmas or is there something else?

Eli Weiss (38:15):

Oh Lord. Um, so this is a hot take and it might get me in trouble, but I really, really strongly dislike when people outsource CX just to save money. Um, I think there is a time and place to outsource CX. Like for example, if you wanna scale up a brand really quickly, or if you need 300 reps, but I think, think that very few people actually do the math and they'll say like, I need 25 people. And then you look at the amount of tickets that my three reps, my three customer experience people do versus their 35 reps. And God knows where it's, it's not even the, the pricing is not even that different. Um, and I think that saying that you strongly believe in CX and you think this is the biggest, the best part of the business when you don't outsource anything else in your business. It's my hot take and it might get me canceled someday. Um, but I think that it's, it's, it's like, I, I think that those things can't both be true. You can't like put, think that CX is the most important part of the business and pay people $5 an hour to reply to your tickets. So,

Rabah Rahil (39:14):

Uh, I, I couldn't agree with you more I'll T with you. Yeah, no, I'll, I'll, we'll, we'll fight, we'll fight off the Twitter, uh, paparazzi, but I, I think, I don't even think that's a hot take. I think that's absolutely spot on. And, um, I think again, kind of going back to that, like, why would you give the keys to the kingdom, the most fragile state that a customer's gonna be in and then, um, and nothing against like, people that don't speak English as their first language, but when you're already fired up and then you're using this cognitive load to kind of like get through people that like, it's great that people speak other languages and stuff, but at the same time, like you're not in a really good head space to generate empathy when you're pissed off already. And then there's another thing that you have to figure out and then there's another thing.

Rabah Rahil (39:55):

And then you're like, oh, well, so what, and then you kind of connect the dots and you're like, oh, that's why they're doing this because it's economical. It's not because it helps me. And, and then, you know, and then that even enrages even more where yeah, I think that's a, that's such a sensational answer spot on. Um, okay, cool. Let's getting some listener questions and then we'll get another rapid fire. Okay. The first one, this is from Jess. So we have two of 'em, one's a fun one. And one's just, uh, this is actually a, a serious one. Um, how do you get stakeholders to care and invest in customer experience, especially if they're in the sales acquisition side or, uh, more sales, acquisition oriented. Do you have any tips there?

Eli Weiss (40:30):

Yeah. Thank you for your question. Jess love the, the fire team squad. Um, and thank you for being my favorite reply, reply people. Um, I think that the conversation always becomes around, you know, again, Cody thinks about this very, very, very uniquely in the way that great customer experience lowers your cost of acquisition over time. Great customer experience, raise your LTV over time. Those are provable metrics. Um, and, and when we think about that, it's like if you want to create a brand brand is created by great experiences that people have with your product and your customer support team and your customer experience team. So great product, great experiences. Um, when you think about sales and acquisition, the, the best, you know, like the larger your brand gets the cheaper acquisition gets. So I think that's just, just framing that as LTV retention, cheaper acquisition over time.

Rabah Rahil (41:28):

I love that. Yeah, absolutely. You'll be able to raise the ceiling on the LTV, lower the CAC, and then ultimately, uh, to your point as well. Um, another kind of positive externality is you'll, you'll just have all these brand evangelists as well. Yep. Which is, which is another really great, great thing where like, you don't have to pay for it. You know what I mean? Obviously there's influencer, blah, blah, blah. But having this organic steam is just, uh, almost, you know, invaluable in a way where it's, it's really hard to, to kind of pay for that because at a certain point, it comes across as an influencer where there's nothing wrong with that. It's fantastic. But that's not the same as just some OG mom or kid, like, you know, oh, Lollipop's fantastic. I, there there's something genuine about that.

Eli Weiss (42:04):

I mean, you're seeing that with, you're seeing that with, I'm just gonna give you some credit, cuz you're not taking credit today, but you're seeing that with triple whale too. Right? It's like people are nonstop talking about it and, and they're just excited and, and, and blown away by the experience they have with, with your tool. And I think that's, again like in a space where there are so many options and everything's so competitive, the ability to create these evangelists by just blowing people's minds is, is what it takes. And it's like, think about competitive advantages. Like having super fans is a very, very, very strong, competitive advantage, especially in a beverage space, in a SAS space. Like these are all spaces where having people that don't stop talking about a product, whether it's online or to their friends, et cetera, is, is a, is a unfair, competitive advantage.

Rabah Rahil (42:49):

Okay. You're trying to soften me up for rapid fire. It's not, it's not gonna work Eli. It's not gonna work. Um, and thi this is just a joking one, but we need to get the fridge full in the, uh, Austin HQ of lollipop. That's from our, not a joke head of, so head of social Tommy,

Eli Weiss (43:02):

But not a joke we must do it. Must do it. Congrats on the new role, Tommy.

Rabah Rahil (43:07):

Yeah. Look at you just connected. Eli. You just have your, your, your web is everywhere and nothing get like the, I saw on just seeing everything. All right. My man, you made it into the final segment. This is rapid fire. So strap in, are you ready?

Eli Weiss (43:21):

Yep.

Rabah Rahil (43:22):

Okay. Overrated, underrated paid media.

Eli Weiss (43:27):

Hmm. Wow. This isn't gonna be a rapid one. Uh, underrated.

Rabah Rahil (43:32):

Ooh. And you can pontificate if you want, or you can just keep going through, uh, customer success, overrated, underrated,

Eli Weiss (43:38):

Overrated.

Rabah Rahil (43:41):

Whoa.

Eli Weiss (43:42):

So, so, so I'll say that the reason why I say that is because I think there's a difference between customer success and experience traditional customer success has gone very, very far into the sales realm. Yep. And they get paid way too much. Um, yep. Compare it to customer experience. So that's my little, my little rift there. So I'll say overrated one, be success. Yeah. <laugh>

Rabah Rahil (44:03):

I love it. Traveling overrated, underrated,

Eli Weiss (44:05):

Underrated.

Rabah Rahil (44:07):

Oh, I love it.

Eli Weiss (44:09):

I mean travel I'll I'll say this on travel travel is really open my, my mind into seeing things differently. The, the more different kinds of people you see in different countries, there's the twofold. Right? You see that people are wildly different than what you expected, but also you see that humans are the same and be being able to connect with somebody, even though you don't speak a word of the same language just by smiling at them, is, is life changing. Brooklyn is definitely, definitely, um, underrated, but I'd say that you have to really choose a spot. That makes sense. Cuz it's like Williamsburg is probably overrated by this, at this point. Just cost of rent and cost of living.

Rabah Rahil (44:45):

I was just gonna say it can get a little spicy, uh, a little spicy with those rents, but uh,

Eli Weiss (44:50):

Kinda choose a

Rabah Rahil (44:50):

Spot. Yeah. I love that. Um, I know you just moved there, but do you have a favorite SI city in PA yet?

Eli Weiss (44:59):

I have. My hack has been, if you don't leave the house, it doesn't matter where you are. So that should give you a little bit of a perspective of what I've seen in Pennsylvania. <laugh>

Rabah Rahil (45:09):

Fair. Play fair play. Um, talking to customers overrated or underrated

Eli Weiss (45:13):

100% underrated, but you knew that I love it.

Rabah Rahil (45:17):

You know, I've you some softballs here. You see maybe the soften enough did work. Gosh damn. Yeah. Um, NFT loyalty programs, overrated, underrated.

Eli Weiss (45:26):

I, this is the, the toughest one cuz I, I I'm, I'm gonna say underrated. The caveat is that I think that the, you know, web three NFT thing as a whole, this is my, my spicy hot take for those to listen to the end is, is massively, massively over spoken about in a tiny group of people on Twitter and 99%. My mom has no idea what NFT is and when I told her people pay money for JPX, she JPX, she couldn't believe it. And we've, we've fixed that with like, oh, there's utility and blah, blah, blah. And I, I, I understand the value of the potential value that NFTs can have, but understanding that a tiny part of the world is, is in on this, that the exciting thing about the caveat is that loyalty programs. I think that the hack there is there's a vested interest by the community to create value here. And I think that vested interest of, as I create value, it brings up my token can go two ways. It can go Gring where everyone's like, holy shit, you don't, you won't believe what happened in this community today, which can get wacky. But I think if done my removing Gring and building community by vested interest, everyone can make money by creating and cultivating a nice space is not like your Facebook groups of 2010. And that's more, I think that's the future.

Rabah Rahil (46:34):

So yeah. Yeah, I do too. Um, uh, we, we have some feelers out cuz I think there's something there's something interesting there and it can be a really interesting lever in terms of your, almost like an extension of community and the mechanism was just NFT. Um, but yeah, I love that. Um, what gave you more gray hair? Obviously you don't have gray hair, but what gave you, I guess more, uh, challenges traveling to 36 countries or lollipop CX.

Eli Weiss (46:57):

Oh Lord. Um, wow. That wasn't a softball one at all. <laugh>

Rabah Rahil (47:03):

It's rapid fire. Come on. We have a, we have a rep to keep up here,

Eli Weiss (47:07):

Travel, travel, travel, just keeping up with all the, with all the points and constantly having to earn points, travel once you travel for free, it's it, it becomes really, really difficult to pay for a trip and I can count on my one hand, how many times in my life I've paid for a ticket at full price, but it, it turns you into a psycho where you just feel horrible paying for something that you never paid for. So definitely gave me instead of the gray hair, it, it, I lost most of my hair to that, so

Rabah Rahil (47:34):

<laugh>, I love it. Um, favorite meal and why?

Eli Weiss (47:39):

Whew. Um, I love kosher style food, cuz it's what I grew up eating. Um, love Chinese food. It's it's my comfort food. Whenever I have like a really, really great day where it's like I wanna celebrate or I had a really trash day that I just wanna like eat my feelings, definitely eating my feelings with, with Chinese food.

Rabah Rahil (48:02):

Oh, I love that. Um, your favorite in person marketing event,

Eli Weiss (48:07):

I candidly have not have not been to many in person. Yeah. I don't think I've been to any yet, but uh, I'm, I'm excited about, I'm excited about events that, that instead of focusing on a product, focus on a space like a, an event for email or an event for SMS or an event for e-comm is, is more exciting than like an event to just talk about clavia.

Rabah Rahil (48:30):

Yep. I love that. Um, favorite place travel to and why?

Eli Weiss (48:35):

Um, I was obsessed with Belgrade Serbia. Um, really I thought that it was one of the most underrated cities I've ever been to. The cost of things are super cheap. The people are extremely friendly. I've like asked somebody for directions and they walked me all the way there. Um, they're not accustomed to having a million tourist like Rome and, and Paris and it's, it's a stunning place. Um, Belgrade Serbia. And my, my next I'd say is Prague. I've been there. Yeah. More times than I can count because it's just, it's magical. It gives you what you, what you overpay for in Paris and Rome, you get it Prague for, for a more reasonable price. Um, so that's, that's a more entry level. I think Belgrade is, is a little off the beaten path, but

Rabah Rahil (49:21):

Yeah, that's, that's Eastern block, right? That's that's pretty Eastern Europe, right? Yeah, yeah. Uh, no prags on the list and then Budapest just supposed to be been in Budapest. Yes. Supposed to be insanity too.

Eli Weiss (49:31):

Prague and, and Budapest are very, a very, um, are very similar in the vibe you feel when you go there. Um, and they're both, I felt like Prague was easier to tackle because it's a smaller, got it's a smaller city center versus Budapest. There's, it's just a much larger, it takes you more time to kind of get, get acquainted. Whereas with Prague, like there's that one city center and there's the little qua alley ways and delicious street food and fantastic bars. Um, incredible, both incredible cities to go to and, and would highly recommend skipping the next Paris in Rome and going to Prague and Budapest instead. <laugh> because it's, it's more affordable and people are great. So

Rabah Rahil (50:13):

I love it. I'm gonna sneak in one for myself. Have you been to Croatia? I've heard tons of really amazing things of Croatia and that's been on the list.

Eli Weiss (50:20):

So I was only in the capital of Croatia. I was in Zagreb, but I haven't been to like the bro neck and split. So yeah. I, the people there were super nice and the food was delicious and everything about Zagreb was great, but I, I I've heard that the, the coast is super nice. I think there's like, there's coastal Europe parks, right? There's like coastal Europe. And then there's like cities, city center Europe. But I think those are two wildly different energies, but I think like Monteiro has some gorgeous, um, like they have cour gorgeous cities on the, on the coast and then there's like city centers, like off the beaten path, like SCO Macedonia has been like a really, really mind blowing experience for me. Um, Belgrade, like some of those like cities that you don't expect to be like, wow. Um, but Americans have tr have traditionally just gone to like the same couple of larger cities in Europe and really left the rest for, for everyone else. So

Rabah Rahil (51:12):

<laugh> oh, you go, you're, you're getting on the fast track people. Um, favorite way to spend your time.

Eli Weiss (51:18):

Oh gosh. I love being alone. Um, don't let anyone just don't let anyone hear that. But I, I love scrolling through TikTok and Twitter endlessly and I, I don't watch much TV. Don't watch many movies. I just, I love being alone. Taking walks, listening to podcasts, um, doing nothing on, you know, scrolling endlessly on TikTok and that's kind of the hack, right? It's like, have you scroll on Twitter? Eventually you get to what you've seen already. You've scroll on Instagram. You're seeing the same things with TikTok. It's just, it's an hour. And then it's two hours and it's, you never see the same thing twice.

Rabah Rahil (51:53):

<laugh> I have to modulate, I have to modulate myself with it, cuz it is so good, man. I'll just, I'll like, you know, go into, you know, just check what's going on or maybe do some research for something. And next thing I know, like an hour's gone I'm behind my day. Like all this stuff, what just happened? This is like this time portal. Yeah, it is. Uh, man, it is that good. Uh, okay. Two more favorite follow on Twitter.

Eli Weiss (52:15):

Wow. Wow. Um, she I'd say that, you know, Nick is an OG and Nick is a friend of mine and is always providing a ridiculous amount of value both through Twitter and the newsletter. So I'm gonna go with with Mr. Sharma.

Rabah Rahil (52:38):

Love it, love it. Yeah. He's I actually got to meet him at the last geek out. He was, uh, really, really nice human. Really? Yeah. Yeah. He was just such a genuine, it was really cool to see the personality that he cultivates online is exactly who he is going back to that expectation setting. Like it, he was just such a gem of human. I was just talking his ear off and he doesn't know me. I'm just there nobody. And he was just, just, oh yeah, here's what I would do. Here's like, you know, he was really, uh, shout out Nick Sharma. Um, okay. Last one. If you have dinner with any people, any three people dead or alive fiction or non-fictional so this is a four person setting you're at one seat and then you get to choose three people. Um, who would they be?

Eli Weiss (53:16):

Oh God, I hate these questions. Um, I never know that's RapidFire. Yeah. Wow. Um, you know, there's always like the, you can go like the cheesy, like my great-grandmother route and you can go like the like Michael Jackson route and you there's like the, the celebrity route. Um, I, wow. Um, she, um, I've gone

Rabah Rahil (53:51):

The first one, the

Eli Weiss (53:52):

First blood I've gone completely.

Rabah Rahil (53:53):

Then the other

Eli Weiss (53:54):

Two will come then completely brand it. I mean, I'll, I'll say this, uh, Tony Shay is definitely somebody that I, I wish. Yeah. I wish I could have met, um, rest peace. I mean, just thinking about having the ability to, to massively do things differently in a way that, you know, not being a Dick about it. Um, just like wanting to do things differently in a way that you, you love the idea of providing great experiences. Um, I would love to have dinner with this is brutal. <laugh> um, I honestly don't like there, there aren't many people that are like, wow, this would be incredible. Um, <laugh> I, Tony, it's hard to ask that question. It's hard to ask that question. Somebody that wants to be home alone.

Rabah Rahil (54:39):

<laugh> I know totally Tony, Nick Sharmer will show up. <laugh> we'll put, we'll put Tony and Nick at your table and then, uh, we'll go from there. You're the

Eli Weiss (54:48):

Leave, the extra two spots empty.

Rabah Rahil (54:50):

Exactly. Eli. You're the best, man. Thanks for, uh, coming on the pod, uh, this time is yours plug anything you want lollipop your feed? Uh, take it away.

Eli Weiss (54:59):

Yeah. Uh, if, if you're looking for, for lollipop, it's drink apop.com. Drink lollipop on all socials. If you're looking for me, um, I'm at Eli Weis with an extra S so it's Eli, w E I S S S on Twitter. Um, and thank you so much, Rob, appreciate your time. Thank you for helping me.

Rabah Rahil (55:18):

Yeah, absolutely. It's a been a pleasure. You actually, uh, you make your rounds on the podcast and you're actually a fairly prolific writer. Uh, there's a Wonderman article. There's some really good, uh, stuff we'll link in the show notes, but, uh, Eli's selling 'em shelf short here. There's a lot of, um, if you're wanting to learn how to really build, build a, a proper CX team, or just quite frankly, as a marketer, understanding the whole customer experience and not being such a quant and understanding how can we just drive down CAC? Like obviously that's, you know, something that you need to keep your mind on, but at the same time, like if you can generate those really incredible experiences, all those other economic factors will just kind of they'll fall into place, man. And so I think, uh, you do a really good job of kind of simplifying a really complex, uh, equation.

Rabah Rahil (56:01):

So again, Eli, thank you so much for your time. That's it for us? Episode 20 is in the books. If you do wanna get involved with triple whale, we [email protected]. We're on the, uh, bird app at triple whale. Um, we did change. We dropped the try, just trip whale. It's cleaner that way. Shout out social network pun. Um, and then what else we got? Oh, we got whale mail. So it would be remiss not to mention our newsletter. It goes out every Tuesday, Thursday, um, Tuesday is an essay. Thursday is a morning brew wrapup style kind of, uh, thing you can sign up right on our Twitter page. And then, yeah, that's all we got. Eli. Thank you. Oh, beautiful. Thank you my man. Thank you so much. If your ever out in Austin, give us a shout and uh, we'll put you up, have some fun and for that's it for us, everybody, um, from Austin, from PA that's it. We'll see everyone on the flip. Thanks again, Eli.

Speaker 3 (56:49):

Thank you.

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