Rabah Rahil (00:11):

All right, folks. We're back for another episode of you are not your Roaz by triple whale. Um, Raba, CMO, and host of the show. I have my partner in crime, co-founder owner operator and gem of a human max with me. And then we absolutely have a screaming for you today. The man, the myth, the legend chase diamond chase. Welcome.

Chase Dimond (00:34):

Hey guys. Thanks for having me. Good to see you. How are you? Both?

Rabah Rahil (00:37):

Well, where are you at? Chase? Where are you? I'm I'm in Austin. So I'm in the satellite campus in Austin. Max is, uh, in the HQ in Columbus, Columbus, Ohio. I'm

Chase Dimond (00:46):

From Ohio. Yeah, I'm coming from orange county, California.

Rabah Rahil (00:48):

Oh, fancy OC. The, the avocado toast of the country, if you will. Um, so speaking of California, you went to school there, right?

Chase Dimond (00:59):

Yep. I went to, I born and raised orange county, California. I went to school at Chapman university, which is in the city of

Rabah Rahil (01:04):

Orange. Oh, cool. What'd you study?

Chase Dimond (01:05):

I studied, uh, business management and marketing played called soccer was in a fraternity, worked six different eight jobs and internships, uh, was in, you know, all these different types of things. So I, I did a

Rabah Rahil (01:17):

Lot. What'd you? I played what'd you play soccer? What position I

Chase Dimond (01:19):

Played. So in growing up, I played like center mid and then these legs in college, I played <laugh> yeah. In college. I played

Rabah Rahil (01:26):

Out right now. Oh, oh. And then you went into the, well, right back. You guess you can still come up. It's more fun to you don't have to run as much. That's awesome, man. So how did that transition into boundless labs? That's that's the big thing right now? Yeah,

Chase Dimond (01:38):

I guess like the really long story short, uh, got diagnosed with Crohn's disease at 13, after being sick for a year, I basically took upon myself as a 14 year old to teach myself gorilla marketing. That was like, you know, calling friends houses, sending email. Yeah. At 14 taught myself gorilla marketing. So, um, been doing it for, for a while. Kind of got started through that. I was taking ads out in local paper, was organizing walks and fundraisers while sending emails and using, and my space and some of these different platforms to get the word out to, to friends and family. So from 14 to 16, dedicated my life to, you know, driving awareness and fundraising for the cloud foundation. And then from 16 to 22, I was like the youngest board member on the charity. Um, so that's kind of how I learned marketing.

Chase Dimond (02:22):

And then in college I had to get jobs in internships as I had to pay for tuition alongside my parents. And that was the only way I could go to college. So I was just kind of hustling doing this, that and the other. So from, from college and one of the jobs and internships I had, I got a fulltime offer after I graduated to move to LA and work at this ed tech platform where I built a platform that connected students on college campuses to others in their classroom to make learning more collaborative. Oh, cool. So did that for about a year, went to go work for like a YouTube competitor. We were like seven or eight people. We raised like 10 to 15 million and we were getting about 30 million people to our site every single month. Wow. And then from, from doing that after six months or 12 months, it got burnt out from, you know, commuting back and forth between OC and LA. It was about two hours each, each way. Yeah. Um, started just doing things on the side. I had a dating site that went viral called Bernie singles. I had like two or 3 million people actually go the site pressed and Facebook groups. I had an Instagram growth tool for musicians to help them promote their following that I sold. Are you a

Maxx Blank (03:22):

Musician?

Chase Dimond (03:22):

Uh, had I had no, I'm not. I just, I saw some friends building like Instagram growth tools that were really general. And I had happened to have a friend that scraped SoundCloud that gave me this list of like hundreds of thousands of artists. So I'm like, all right, Instagram automation just gonna be the branding towards musicians is gonna be the exact same tool as it would for anyone else. But we're just gonna brand it this way. It's called sound juice. That's great. Um, it was kinda funny. I love it. Yeah. So chase is a hustler.

Maxx Blank (03:49):

If you ever with chase, he's a hustler. He's, he's a pleasure to work with. He likes gets things done. He's a team player. It's been a pleasure working with chase

Chase Dimond (03:57):

You guys. So I guess, long wayed to run this out then from there built an email travel series that grew from zero to 500,000 subscribers in months.

Rabah Rahil (04:05):

Oh, that's the best post to every, by

Chase Dimond (04:06):

The way. Thank you. Thank you.

Rabah Rahil (04:07):

That people will link. We'll put a show link to it. It's so good.

Maxx Blank (04:10):

What was that? Can you explain that?

Chase Dimond (04:13):

So it was an email travel series, much like the hustle, the skim in morning brew. And I did like a thread in a video recently on like how I did it. There are four main channels I talked about. Uh, cold email was a big acquisition channel. We use giveaways, ambassadors, influencers. We are buying and building and scaling Instagram accounts to the millions and tens of millions. So that was that. And then finally, Nick Shackleford, who's, you know, I know also kind of involved in advisor here. Uh, who's now my business partner at our agency, he got me into e-commerce about four years ago cuz some of the stuff I was doing cold email and some of these community stuff was a little bit in the gray. Let's just say like some of the scraping and things like that was, was in the gray. This was before like GDPR and California and all those things. So he said to me, why don't you come into the optin e-commerce world, do email marketing and crush it in. I haven't looked back ever since. Wow.

Rabah Rahil (05:01):

Wow. That's quite a trajectory, my friend. So through all that, you've achieved so much, but in there there seemed to be some trials and tribulations obviously. Right. Um, what did you lean on or like, is there a system or strategy or something that you implemented to help you, you know, kind of stay the course cuz it, you know, you raise get to a company, small company it raises and then goes out that's brutal. And then the, you know, just health issues having to figure that out. That's brutal. How like you're one of the happiest people I've encountered. How, how do you keep that jubilance? Just in perpetuity?

Chase Dimond (05:36):

Yeah. I think for me, like just my experience with Crohn's disease, the fact that like every day feel, you know, decent and feel well, like that's such a blessing. So I think just through my experience with that, like all this other stuff, not that it's easy, but like in, in retrospect and kind of in comparison, it's, it's a lot less, you know, impactful and monumental. I think that for me, and I don't remember sin is when my parents told me a couple years back that I, I have three younger brothers and I said to them, I'm so glad if anyone was to get at Crohn's it was me. So I, I guess I've always had like this attitude of like, Hey, you know, it's just a bump in the road, we're gonna get through it. And I think now at 28 I've had enough kind of repetitions of, you know, get knocked down, get back up and build twice as strong that I'm not really, you know, too concerned if these small things get in the way.

Maxx Blank (06:19):

Fantastic.

Rabah Rahil (06:20):

And I love that. I love that. I have sometimes when I get stressed out, I tell myself it's not personal. It's not forever and it's not important. And just kind of repeat that stuff, repeat that. But I love how that's just so ensconced in gratitude. I man, that's just a path that's that's

Maxx Blank (06:34):

It seems to be like an ongoing theme with successful people,

Rabah Rahil (06:38):

Successful, happy people,

Maxx Blank (06:39):

Successful, happy people.

Rabah Rahil (06:41):

Well I've successful people that are not grateful

Maxx Blank (06:43):

<laugh> I, I don't necessarily put success and just tie it straight to money. Right. We also tie it to being happy. Right. So it's like,

Chase Dimond (06:53):

Yeah, I think for,

Maxx Blank (06:54):

Or at least for me.

Chase Dimond (06:55):

Yeah. I think to build on like for, for me and, and max, I think obviously you have a family of kids. I think for me, my daughter's 16, 17 months old, like it kind of clicked for me like that day we were in the hospital, it's like this weird thing and I actually probably feel it. And you know, you, you can maybe understand this, but you don't feel until you actually experience it. Like my life just changed. I felt like overnight, that sounds so cliche, but priorities just literally shifted. Right? I'd never taken any time off at work really prior. And I took three weeks off on fraternity. Leave knows like the best thing looking back. And now, you know, on the next one I might take off six who knows just because being able to spend the time and being there. And now I feel so successful in so many different ways.

Chase Dimond (07:31):

I feel successful because every morning I get to wake up and hang out with my daughter and I don't have to start work if I don't want til till eight or 9:00 AM. Right. I had to go have lunch, like right before this call, I had lunch with my wife and my daughter. We were just hanging out. So back to your point, like my, you know, my kind of definition of success early on was financial, right? Yeah. And recognition. I think now obviously those things were important, but those are kind of secondary to family and health and some of those. Yeah.

Maxx Blank (07:58):

I mean, just to add into that is that a lot of people wanna do the entrepreneurial thing, business thing for the financial status and success and they get to the end of the, you know, their goal, whatever it may be. And then they've destroyed all their relationships or they have nothing. So like what are we, what are we even doing this for? If it's not to have the life, we wanna have to have the best relationships. Huge.

Rabah Rahil (08:20):

Yeah. I mean, not to be corny, but I'm in total alignment as well. We should have some friction on a, on a show right. With three people, but that's right. Um, yeah. I there's, uh, a really great book called the master in theary and it's, uh, it's really FA fascinating brain book, but one of the things that, um, you tease out of there is, um, so I would say to you guys pose the question to you. So I'll, I'll go to you first chase. What do you think drives the most happiness empirically, um, through, in life? Is it health? Is it wealth? Is it some other thing? What would you say?

Chase Dimond (08:51):

I think for me, it's a tie between connection, like connection with others. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and I think, you know, health, right. You know, if you're not healthy, right? The, the amount of connection that you have is probably gonna be limited. And if you don't have that connection, you're gonna be lonely. Right. I think those are the two that stand out to me.

Rabah Rahil (09:06):

Yeah.

Maxx Blank (09:06):

Max, I couldn't agree more that I find most joy connecting. So obviously family huge sense of happiness, joy there, but there's nothing better than like working with great people and seeing them succeed. There's like not, there's, there's nothing so much, you know, better than that. What you see with your kids, you see with your kids, with your wife, it's like all the more so like, you know, this is what I'm supposed to be doing right now.

Rabah Rahil (09:32):

And, and to be fair too, to build on your point, I think when you are doing meaningful work with people that you respect and care about, um, that's just a different kind of bank account than when you're being, you know, yes. Manning or doing the, the Gotto stuff versus the getto stuff. Mm-hmm <affirmative> um, but uh, kind of wrapping out and landing the plane on that. Um, yeah, you guys are absolutely correct. So health was not the top leading indicator. Wealth was not the top leading indicator. It was the depth and breadth of the social connections. And that is what makes, and I don't know if you guys ever traveled to, um, I don't know what the term, not impoverished, but you know, uh, countries that don't have a grant, big disparity in terms of earnings. And you can see some of the happiest people there and you're like, how, and then, you know, like I know fairly wealthy people, I'm sure you guys do too, where they're maybe not, you know, the, the most happy person and you're just like, man, you have all this. And so it's almost what you said in that line. Max is like you working to get everything, but you lose everything. And so it's just like this paradoxical, like, so you're working to lose everything that,

Maxx Blank (10:35):

That it's not build. Doesn't

Rabah Rahil (10:37):

Make sense.

Maxx Blank (10:38):

Exactly. Connections. Yeah. I love

Rabah Rahil (10:40):

It. All right, cool. We we'll, we'll elevate the vibe here. Let's go. Let's go. Why you stay? Why'd you stay in California. What's so great about California. You love it.

Chase Dimond (10:48):

Yeah. I, I do. I mean, we're, we're pretty spoiled out here. The weather's good and you know, 99% of the year, like every time I'm playing basketball, whether it's in the winter, the fall, the spring, all my friends elsewhere, like you're playing basketball outside, like it's 30 degrees here. So I dunno. I, I, the really, the big thing is like the weather's good. That's great. But you know, family is local. My brother live within a couple mile radius. My mom, uh, my dad, my in-laws right. Everyone that I really care about, not everyone, but most people I care about live within a 10, 15 mile radius. Um, so for me, like living anywhere else just doesn't make

Rabah Rahil (11:20):

Sense. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. All right, folks, let's get into the value, add segment. The reason you bought the ticket to the show. Okay. Chase, we're gonna start with kind of a, a general kind of higher level one. Um, what's your take on what the impact has been in present day kind of iOS 14 ramifications and privacy changes coming down the pike. And then, um, what do you think the future is gonna hold?

Chase Dimond (11:44):

Yeah, so I'm as an email marketer, I'm not personally as involved with like top of the funnel, iOS 14, 14.5. That being said, right. We have about 150 brands that we work with at our agency. And I've just seen like how drastic that's been on a lot of them. So, you know, I sympathize with those brands and with a bunch of other, just knowing that like, this is, this is a challenge and it's a legitimate thing. It's not like this media buyer sucks or that media buyer sucks. Right. Maybe that could be part of it for some people. Right. But in most cases, you know, the platforms are getting tougher and, you know, Nick, as my partner always talks about the focus on content, right. And how content needs to be at the forefront. And it's less now moving this or moving that. So, so yeah, the truthfully answer that, like, I don't know as much as a lot of other people do in terms of that, more of the stuff that I'm looking at and watching closely as the, I was 15, cuz that's directly applicable to me and kind of what I do.

Chase Dimond (12:36):

And for those that don't know, that's basically apple kind of doing the whole type of thing that they did on Facebook and Instagram and all these other platforms, but for email, for apple users where they're gonna mask kind of like IP and the ability to see which of those users actually open. So for me, iOS 15 is a lot more kind of top of mind and relevant.

Maxx Blank (12:54):

Wow. So can you expand a bit on what that iOS 15 looks like for retention, marketers brands and things like that? I know you had, so you had a big summit, right? Right. Now you did something big recently with some of the big email service providers, right?

Chase Dimond (13:07):

Yeah. In, I think it was June or July, maybe July. I can't even remember at this point in July, I had about six of the large ESP founders and CEOs on the summit where we talked about, I was 15 at that point, I think it had only been out for like a couple weeks. So it was just this kind of hour long session where I picked their brains around, like is email dead, you know, what's coming, like what can we expect? Um, and it was kind of interesting to hear their responses like, you know, unanimously. And obviously they're probably biased. They very much say email, marketing's not dead. We're just gonna have to pivot and change how we do things. So today an email, most of the time we're leveraging what's called an engaged segment. So it's typically based off of people that open, um, and or click.

Chase Dimond (13:47):

And maybe you can add things in that people purchased recently, but the really big metric that we're looking at today in a pre iOS 15 world is the open rate that kind of gives us some indication of, do we keep sending to this person or not mm-hmm <affirmative> and the engaged period ranges from, you know, 30 days kind of on the restrictive side, mm-hmm, <affirmative> all the way up to 120 hundred 50 days. The benchmark that we've always used is we wanna get a 20% open rate or higher on a campaign. And a campaign is a one time send to a group of people. And on the automation side of flow side, that's basically an email that's triggered off of a behavior and action event Bann and cart, email, first example, right? The open rates there, you wanna see 30, 40, 50, 60% or higher. Um, so that ability to see and build that engaged segment based off an open is gonna go away for, you know, a decent percentage of your users, right?

Chase Dimond (14:33):

Anyone that's using the apple kind of ecosystem is gonna be a mass. So right now say we send to a hundred people on an apple device, maybe 20 or 30 of those people open. We can see each of those people at open where their base, what they're doing, all their activity of those a hundred people moving forward. It's gonna now say all a hundred of them open, which obviously right. We don't have a a hundred percent open rate. It's there's no way. No, no, one's that good? Right. So that's gonna be hard for us to figure out like, well, who do we send emails to? And how do we know? Then we're gonna have to pivot to other ways of engagement. Right? Who's clicked. Who's been active on our website. Who's been viewing our products. Who's been starting cards. Who's been adding the checkout who's been purchasing. Right. And again, those metrics obviously are better in terms of having a sense of engagement, but the pool's gonna be a lot smaller. Right. The number of people that open versus taking all these other steps is, is pretty big in terms of the difference mm-hmm <affirmative>.

Rabah Rahil (15:23):

Yeah. That's awesome. It's almost in a weird way. Analogous, like as basically what you're saying to some of the impacts that we felt in the paid media world, right? Yeah. Where it's like you're taking it like retargeting audiences or, you know, not what they used to be. Lookalikes are just absolutely a thing of the past. Like, unless it's, there's just a lot of the, um, old paradigms are just gonna get really turned on their head. And so if you actually shameless plug for chase, he, if you wanna know more about this stuff and figure it out, he has a really, really awesome course and we'll link it in the show. NORS um, if you wanna throw him some money and get way down the path of email proficiency, um, he's the man. Um, so building off of that, we have black Friday kind of looming it's coming up.

Rabah Rahil (16:10):

Um, personally I think people sleep on email in terms of black Friday. I think people are way too indexed on paid just for the sheer fact of, so I went to school for economics. I that's how my brain works. I just see the world through an economic lens. And just by like Facebook by this is the CPM digression, but like Facebook can't raise CPMs by the function. Like if you know how the auction works, it doesn't raise CPMs. What it can do is put more inventory to make money, right? So instead of showing you one, um, or one ad in your feed, they can put now two ads or whatever, and that they can make more money from, they can't raise impressions. However, the CPM will rise if the demand rises. And so you have all these big hitters everybody's spending like these people, you just you're fighting against balance sheets that you have no chance.

Rabah Rahil (16:56):

You just have no chance of competing against. And I actually know some very, um, prominent buyers that will basically spend up to a black Friday, like overspend the account and then cut the ads for the whole black Friday cyber Monday kind of weekend. And then they just crush email and they just crush email. Um, sorry, I kind of totally diluted that question, but what would you do? Um, or what are some tips to give to people in terms of, you know, tighten up their email situation and making it optimal for black Friday coming up cyber Monday.

Chase Dimond (17:28):

Yeah. And this is something I was talking about team about earlier and we kind of broke this into three categories. So I'm gonna talk about, uh, creative strategy for pre black Friday every Monday during and post. So starting with like the pre, um, so the campaigns, again, the one time send to a group of people, product launches, Holly offers those type of things. Those should really be about teasing kind of like upcoming sales, but we're really gonna focus on kind of in building our engage audience. Right? We want people to engage. We want people to click. We want people to reply. We want them to drag us from their promotions into the primary. Uh, we don't want to go too heavy right now on a bunch of discounts to burn them out with promotions before the week of black Friday, cyber Monday, cuz whatever you offer today, isn't gonna be as great as what you're gonna offer.

Chase Dimond (18:08):

You know, during that period of time, that's not to say don't do any discounts and whatnot, but don't go super heavy on sales and promotion right now, just start teasing and building kind of the hype that's on the campaign side, on the kind of flow or the automation side. We want to kind of start gearing those to be more black Friday, cyber, Monday oriented. So we wanna include language about it. Maybe even like in our abandonment series. So our abandoned car abandoned checkout. We wanna include language that, Hey, you know, we're gonna now play on the scarcity kind of the FOMO side. If you don't buy this today, there's chances that like come black Friday, every Monday we're gonna run out stock. Right? A lot of stores obviously don't have endless and kind of limitless inventory. So stock is gonna sell out. So even just teasing and kind of dropping some of that messages into some of your automations today, like that alone will hopefully push people to buy from you or at least help. And then kind of the popup, right? The way that we collect emails on the website should talk about black Friday, cyber Monday, what's coming and get people on the list and start introducing them to what's gonna come. Um, and again, these leads might stay potentially cold until black Friday and Monday, cuz I really joined for that period of time, but that's kind of on the, the pre side. Does that make sense before I go to kind of the, the during

Maxx Blank (19:16):

Yeah. So quick go ahead. Quick question. Um, how far in advance do you start warming these guys up?

Chase Dimond (19:22):

So my right now kind of when this is gonna come out, we'll be towards the end of Q3, you know, ASAP, right? Like September, October are really the months to like capitalize and start building and start preparing for this because come November, it's gonna be probably too late. Right? You're gonna have so many other things you have to do. So I would start preparing for this stuff and at least building the calendar and creating some of the assets and doing your photo shoots now it's, it's always better to kind of over prepare than it is to under prepare, especially since, you know, an overwhelming amount of revenue's gonna come during this one week period. Right. You you'd rather no, one's gonna look back and be like, oh man, I spent way too much time prepared. Right. So I would start like a,

Maxx Blank (20:01):

Um, would you say during this time period that you start sort of preparing and warming up this list, it's also a good time to start to turn off any kind of in, um, discounts in sales and things like that. Just really start to focus it in, on the coming big sale, right around that same time period.

Chase Dimond (20:21):

Yeah. Like, yeah. I don't, I wouldn't say you have to turn it off like entirely, but I would do a lot less, you know, than you typically do. Right. So in a given month, if you're doing multiple, you know, I would probably cut that, you know, down by half. Right. Mm-hmm <affirmative> I would do half the amount of promotion that you normally do potentially even more, again, you, you might want to capitalize on certain things, depending on if you have like a anniversary sale or something really important in the interim, right? Maybe like your big thing is Halloween and maybe that's where you get a lot of your guys' customers coming in. So it, there are certain occasions where like they wouldn't kind of apply to those general rules, but in most cases, yeah, you kind of wanna peel back how much you're doing in terms of promo and more just focus on hyping and giving people updates and giving them medication and trying to focus on expanding and kind of bolstering your engagement. Got

Maxx Blank (21:07):

It. You wanna move on during

Chase Dimond (21:10):

Yeah. Great questions. Yeah. So, so during, um, we wanna be more aggressive during black Friday and center Monday with our campaigns. So I think most brands probably are sending one to three, maybe two to four campaigns a week. We obviously wanna move to a daily email during that week period of time. If you know, you have the resources and bandwidth. So instead of sending once or twice, a few times a week, if you can, the ideal thing is to do is attend daily. A lot of other people are gonna send a lot of emails. If you send seven emails out during that one week, chances are people only might see one or two potentially three. So don't feel like you're over doing it. I think at this point now subscribers really are accustomed to using it and receiving kind of a lot of emails. So increase the frequency on the campaigns also on the flows.

Chase Dimond (21:51):

So typically during the flows, let's use like the abandoned cart, for example, we're gonna wanna increase the timing of those emails. So right now let's say the typical cadence of an abandoned card sequences, someone abandons their cart. We send an email out maybe two hours later and then the second email, maybe a day later, and then a third email, maybe one or two days later, we're gonna wanna cut that time in half. So we wanna do email one, let's say like 30 minutes later, we might wanna do email two, like 12 hours later. We wanna do email three, like a day later, right? So we really wanna send those three emails out within, you know, 24, 36 hours. Whereas typically outside of this period, that could be like a 48 to 72 hours just cause it so much happening. And a window opportunity to capitalize is so

Maxx Blank (22:31):

Short, you know? And when you look at the metrics on an abandoned cart series and then also browse abandonment series just during a regular time, you can only imagine what it's gonna be like during this time period. Mm-hmm never doing this for, you know, six or seven years. I've never, ever switched. This is maybe embarrassing. I don't know. I've never switched my, my banded carts or my brows abandonments during this time period ever. So thank you. <laugh>

Chase Dimond (23:01):

Yeah, dude. You're welcome. And then kind quickly talking about posts black every Monday and then you guys, any questions or anything,

Maxx Blank (23:08):

Can I jump into a quick question for during cause one thing I'm always trying to understand and just, you know, you're always kind of afraid of, am I sending too much? You know, and I think you're right. You know, people are saying so much that like you can send a few that day. You can send a few more. So like what, what do you think <laugh> what do you think is the good number? Let's say you open it up in the, you do an early bird midnight, right? So like during that, I always like to do that, like open it up, like midnight for the early bird opt-ins it's like during the day, how many resends are you doing?

Chase Dimond (23:35):

So the, the timing of the resend like is gonna be interesting with it being like November. I think Iowa 15 is gonna be rolling out September, October. So recent is something that we would do in in previous years. And we, we drove a lot of engagement, a lot of revenue from recent and it's great because you basically take work that you've already done and you just get a almost double dip for lack of a better word, you know, in this year might be different just because of iOS 15, like the ability to reset

Maxx Blank (24:01):

That's coming. I 15 is coming possibly this month.

Chase Dimond (24:06):

Uh, yeah. I, I think it's supposed to happen in the next like, wow. The

Rabah Rahil (24:10):

13th is the announcement, so, or like the big event. So I'm sure it's gonna be right on the Hills of that. Right. The 13th of September.

Chase Dimond (24:17):

Yeah. So that, yeah, that's why I think like, you know, the mid to end of November when this happens, like I think by then it will probably be fully or mostly rolled out as kind of what I'm understanding. So for, for apple devices, I would just be careful with 3 cents, but if you can kind of segment out other users. Wow. I think you could go ahead and resend and, and try that.

Maxx Blank (24:37):

Okay. Good to know. Cool,

Chase Dimond (24:41):

Cool, cool. And then kind to round this out. So post black Friday, every Monday, we kind of want to go back to not mentioning discounts or promotions for like one to two months. Again, this isn't saying don't do any right. You might want to do some, uh, but, but like keep it a little bit less frequent, right? People have been really burnt out by all the emails they're gonna receive from you and everyone else. They're gonna spend a bulk of their wallet shared during that one week period. Right. They're gonna do most of their holiday shopping and kind their selfish shopping for themselves during that period. Mm-hmm <affirmative> so do less discounting and really more focus on engaging them with stories, educational content, getting them to participate through replying and clicking and whatever it might be. That's on the campaign side. And then the flow side, we wanna focus on asking customers for reviews, right?

Chase Dimond (25:23):

We're gonna have a lot of new customers that come through pipeline or that we, we wanna collect a ton of UGC, ton of content. We want to introduce the brand. We want to introduce the team. We want to talk about the story. We really want to keep them engaged and interested in the brand. Um, just as much as they were interested during that one period of time, but we want to do it, you know, through kind of engaging and focusing on the community. So that's kind of how I think about like pre during and post black Friday every Monday.

Maxx Blank (25:47):

Let me just, um, get your, maybe make a comment here, spark a small conversation. But, um, so we, we kind of like stop the sales after black Friday and cyber Monday, but there's a few other deadlines that I think people can capitalize on, which is like, you know, last time to get it by the USPS's cutoff dates. Right. So like get your orders in now. Yeah. So as we get closer to the 25th, uh, in the actual holidays, there's also some really cool buildups there that can maybe do that whole hype series again and have a nice little pay day at the end of the holiday season.

Chase Dimond (26:23):

Yeah. That's something we do for a lot of our brands is we, we, we do highlight like the last cutoff last days, I'm curious this year, if those are kind of earlier normal, just everything happening, like with logistics and fulfillment and shipping. So I think for everyone, you know, thinking about that, and that's a great call, like look at that sooner rather than later, because you're gonna probably have to start preparing for that probably a couple days, if not like a week sooner than typical. Um, and in there, like you don't have to give discounts like the, the call to action and kind of the urgency, the FOMO is the fact that you're gonna potentially miss out on receiving an item. And so I, I think, you know, not having to do a lot of discounts, potentially a discount, right. At the last minute, if you still haven't got people to kind of go over the edge, but I would start that out with just what you mentioned, just the fear of missing out on getting something in your hands on time. And then if, if you, and then from there, right, if people do miss the deadlines, you then move to like digital gift cards, right? Yeah. Send a gift card by gift card, doing that type of thing. Huge.

Maxx Blank (27:17):

Yeah. Yeah. So not necessarily sacrificing revenue as the, I guess, CTA in a sense, but it's really just that fear of missing out the solid strategy. Yeah. And then obviously the digital gift card, like what is better than that when it comes close to the holiday season.

Rabah Rahil (27:33):

Yeah. That's strong. Look at that. All on a free podcast people. Can you believe it? Um, okay. Last question in the mains or the value add segment, uh, kind of quirky, but what is one of the, cuz I know through your course, everything, you're a big, uh, advocate of testing. What's one test that you were really shocked or test result that you were shocked by where it's like, this is definitely the hitter and then it's the, uh, other one. Does that make sense?

Chase Dimond (27:58):

Yeah. Um, I mean, I don't know how helpful this is or isn't gonna be for people for me. I was kind of shocked by it. Um, if you guys were on my newsletter, you guys probably typically notice that I send from my actual email address as the phone name. So if you look at my email and said, it's saying chase diamond, it's gonna [email protected]. Like, so everyone else is gonna be like triple whale. Um, right. Like whatever the stores are, Nordstroms Macy's then it's gonna say chase at chase diamond as a, from name. So by accident, one of the times we did that with one of our brands, we had it instead of doing the, from name as the actual name, we'd done it as the email, which is also the, from email address. And we were just shocked. We like, holy shit, the open rates like skyrocketed we're like, is this, is this legit?

Chase Dimond (28:38):

What years? Its so I've been testing probably for the last, like three to six months on my own weekly newsletter. And every time I've done it, you know, I get an additional like five to 15% of people opening the email. So, you know, on lists, like I send a 20,000 people every week. So, you know, I'm getting a couple hundred people opening more every week. So yeah. Yeah. That's, that's been kind of interesting. We try it for a lot of our clients. So again, try it for, for years. I'm not sure if it's the fact that it's still somewhat new. Right. Um, it's kind of reason why I have the uptick and obviously if everyone on the podcast goes to do it over time, it's probably gonna diminish the results right there. There's this uh, saying? Or there's this law? I don't know if it's a real one or made one, but it's called a law of click, uh, shitty clickthroughs and the more that someone does, something scientific, the less likely it is.

Chase Dimond (29:23):

Yeah. So like for example, like when you first use send emails like 20, 30 years ago, the amount of people that would open emails is really high. Yeah. Now that everyone sends emails, right. It's come down. So with SMS right now, because there's still not a ton of people doing it, you know, the open rates are really, really high. I'm sure over time. Right. That might decrease a little bit, although we all wanna get rid of that notification on our phone that says we have one on message. So we're gonna probably open it regardless. Um, but yeah, the from name is kind of an interesting one and actually having it be your

Rabah Rahil (29:49):

Email. That's incredible. Well now you turned me on one more thing. So I gotta ask you about it. So SMS, I really do enjoy SMS, but what I've found is that the messaging cadence is the ceiling is so low. Um, that it's really an accretive channel. Whereas email like all my successful clients, there are 35 to 40% email. Like they, they just print money through email and then we do add on SMS. But when we tried to kind of get quirky and get fun, it never worked, literally was meeting potatoes. Hey, we just dropped this product. You guys are awesome by it here. Or Hey, we're running exclusive 20% off sale to our SMS subscribers here, but I hadn't been able to unlock. And, and in my own head space, I was like, well, I don't really wanna build a relationship through a text message on a brand. It's kind of what my pushback was, but mm-hmm <affirmative> are you seeing similar things or am I just doing it wrong?

Chase Dimond (30:40):

So my answer is, I'm not an SMS person. We offer it at our agency. We brought someone that's a specialist we're working with 25 or 30 SMS brands. And from what I understand, the clients are happy and we're seeing success. I don't think we're seeing much success as we are on email. Cause most cases, these clients lists are bigger. We've been doing it for longer. If more infrastructure we can send more frequently. Right. Um, so I, I think for us, in most cases, the cadence is typically like once a week is kinda the threshold. Yep.

Maxx Blank (31:09):

That's

Chase Dimond (31:09):

Also what IM saying. If we move into two and three a week, that kind of gets a little bit aggressive and a little bit annoying, unless again, unless the content and the expectation was to be multiple times per week, fair point. I think that's a really important piece that most people miss, right. Is if you, if someone starts sending you a daily email and they never told you, they're gonna send you daily. You're like, what the heck? Like I never signed up for this point, but if someone told you, they're gonna send you a daily email, right. The expectation and the framing is there. So I think with SMS, you know, you have to be really, you know, upfront and kind of forthright about what the cadence is gonna be. If it's gonna be more than once per week. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, it's gonna be once per week. Maybe sometimes twice. I think you're okay. Not saying anything, but if it's gonna be more aggressive, then you want to give people the heads up.

Rabah Rahil (31:48):

That was brilliant advice. That, and that would align with

Maxx Blank (31:51):

Another thing

Rabah Rahil (31:52):

To that's breaking the trust with them. Sure. That's brilliant. Chase.

Maxx Blank (31:55):

Another thing to add, which some people don't um, think about this from my experience is that the automations on SMS are also phenomenal, you know? So like the abandoned cart series, mm-hmm <affirmative> even the opt in. Right. So give us your, your phone number so on and so forth. So that would just magnify your retention efforts. It's it's massive.

Rabah Rahil (32:17):

Yeah. I love that.

Maxx Blank (32:18):

Don't forget to change the, uh, frequency when it gets into black Friday. <laugh>

Rabah Rahil (32:25):

Turn it up. People turn to 11 chase. I can't believe you made it to rapid fire. I am so impressed. All right. Put your bad armorer on. We're gonna jump in. You ready?

Maxx Blank (32:34):

Let's

Rabah Rahil (32:35):

Do it. Email overrated, underrated, underrated, TikTok, overrated, underrated,

Chase Dimond (32:41):

Underrated. Why? I think, I think a lot of content, a lot of possibility to go viral. I think TikTok, you know, the amount of time that I just think of past YouTube in terms of people actually spending time on it. Um, I, I posted a video when it first started and I had like 500,000 or 600,000 views and I had no followers. Right. So the ability for people to grow viral is pretty crazy.

Rabah Rahil (32:59):

I love that. Yosemite, overrated or underrated.

Chase Dimond (33:03):

I've never been. So, um, I've

Rabah Rahil (33:06):

What's your favorite California park?

Chase Dimond (33:08):

I'm not sure. Never been to one, probably the park down my down the street that my daughter

Maxx Blank (33:12):

Love got swing.

Rabah Rahil (33:15):

Oh man. Have you seen that? Merry mint. <laugh> um, what's your favorite meal?

Chase Dimond (33:21):

Favorite meal? I love Italian food, Italian food or Mexican food. So I mean anything from any of those places is

Rabah Rahil (33:27):

Fair game. Is there a good Italian in California?

Chase Dimond (33:28):

Yeah, really good Mexican food where we are and some pretty good Italian food.

Rabah Rahil (33:32):

That's strong. What's the favorite place you've traveled to

Chase Dimond (33:35):

Favorite place? Uh, my wife and I went on a honeymoon to Canada. We spent a week in Vancouver and then we spent a week in van national park. It's on the list and Banff national park was to die for. So I, if my favorite California national park is one in BA Canada. That's

Maxx Blank (33:48):

Funny. It's good.

Rabah Rahil (33:50):

That's amazing. What's your favorite way to spend your free time?

Chase Dimond (33:53):

Free time lately? It's been going on walks after work with my wife and my daughter. That's beautiful.

Rabah Rahil (33:57):

The best. That's beautiful. Um, who's your favorite follow on Twitter?

Chase Dimond (34:01):

Favorite follow on Twitter. Uh, triple

Rabah Rahil (34:05):

Look at this guy, this guy. Okay. We'll close with this. If you could take one thing back to the middle ages, what would it be? The only caveat is you have to carry, you have to be able to carry and, and we'll ask you two max

Chase Dimond (34:18):

Middle ages. I mean, I'm obsessed with basketball right now. Did they have hoops in basketball? If they, I dunno if I could carry either those, but I carry basketball.

Rabah Rahil (34:26):

That is the proverbial ball is life that's chase. You could take anything. I love you. That's max, what would you take back?

Maxx Blank (34:35):

That's a serious question. Lighter,

Rabah Rahil (34:40):

Strong, strong. I like it. Nice. I was gonna take back a, um, a book of history and then I know whatever what happens, you know, everything that happens. But to be fair, I, I need the question. So I had time to prepare <laugh> <laugh>, uh, chase, you're doing some really cool stuff. Uh, tell us about it and how people can get involved.

Chase Dimond (35:00):

Yeah, the, the best place to find me in terms of learning about email marketing and agency, this, that, and the other is on Twitter handles e-comm chase diamond. No, a and diamond. Just D I M O N D. And then I think by the time that this drops, uh, my black Friday summit will, will be there, be happening. We're excited to have max speaking about Q4 data, whatever he is talking about. I don't actually even know, but it's gonna be sick. Um, black Friday summit.com. So it's free a hundred percent virtual, a hundred percent live a hundred percent online and I'm looking forward to it.

Rabah Rahil (35:29):

Oh, I love it. And then he also has an amazing email course that he plugged will drop links into there. Um, we have a free newsletter as well. People called whale mail. You can go, uh, find it on, follow us on Twitter at tri triple whale. And it's right there on our profile page. Uh, max, do you have anything else?

Maxx Blank (35:45):

That's it. I mean,

Rabah Rahil (35:47):

That's number

Maxx Blank (35:48):

Two looks, this was stacked with incredible, with some good stuff here. So yeah, that's

Rabah Rahil (35:54):

Incredible. Come outta the gate hard. I love it. Chase. You're the man. Enjoy California. Thanks so much for your time. If you're ever out in Austin or Columbus, come say hi to your triple whale family. And that's it for us folks have a whale over a day,

Maxx Blank (36:07):

Cheer.

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