How To Turn TikTok Content Into Ads With Taylor Lagace

December 1, 2022


Hosted By

Rabah Rahil
CMO at Triple Whale


Taylor Lagace
Co-CEO @Kynshipco

Episode Description

In this episode of ROAS, we go over the incredible power of TikTok and influencer generated content #ROAS

Notes & Links

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Follow the people featured in this episode here:

- Rabah's Twitter: https://twitter.com/rabahrahil
- Taylor's Twitter: https://twitter.com/TaylorLagace


Taylor Lagace (00:00):

And I would take 10 micros over one macro any day of the week, right? So 10 micros with a hundred K each one, MI macro with a million aggregate following the same greater reach, greater engagement, greater conversion rate, more niche audiences with the micro collectively. And you're gonna have a, a greater than 10 to one optin rate with micros in comparison, macros to your programs.

Rabah Rahil (00:27):

All right, folks, we have a banger for you today. Episode 27. Can you believe it? 27 in the books? Incredible. And, and not only did I get you a brain, I got you a jock, a jock, and a brand. We have the former captain of the U C football team and, and running probably the most prominent influencer marketing on the planet. Taylor, Laga say, did I miss it? I missed it. Didn't I

Taylor Lagace (00:51):

Nailed it. Did I get it? You nailed it. Nailed it.

Rabah Rahil (00:53):

Yes. I've been practicing that. Taylor, my van. Thank you for coming on. This has been a long time coming. I know you've, uh, been very, very gracious in the scheduling and I, I thank you for that. When you come to Austin, I will buy you a beer. I have been wanting to get you on forever. Influencer marketing. Is this, this kind of nebulous thing that I'm hoping after people listen to the pod that will understand how impactful and why it's really, uh, an incredible value vector for a lot of businesses. But, but before that's what we call a plug. People will get, get people hooked in first. Um, let's talk a little bit about you. Where does this podcast find you?

Taylor Lagace (01:26):

That intro was so fire <laugh>.

Rabah Rahil (01:29):

Thank you.

Taylor Lagace (01:29):

Thank you. All right. I need, might need more of that, man. I just feel like a thousand, a million bucks, a thousand bucks would be selling you short. I feel like a million, uh, I'm calling in from orange county, California.

Rabah Rahil (01:39):

Oh, beautiful. Beautiful. And you, uh, went to school out there. You've been in California, your whole life, or?

Taylor Lagace (01:45):

Yeah, born and raised, uh, Pasadena, uh, that went to UCLA. Like you had alluded to captain mm-hmm <affirmative> was true, but that is an oversell for sure. I was a special teams captain. That means like I was second string where like the, the real players tend to like play. And then I got my role on special teams. Um, and then moved down to orange county after college,

Rabah Rahil (02:06):

To be fair. I mean, D one football. I mean, I, I did D one sports myself, man, even just making a D one team, especially in a competitive field like football, uh, you know, basketball, football. It's nothing never knows that. I mean, it's a, that's

Taylor Lagace (02:18):


Rabah Rahil (02:19):


Taylor Lagace (02:19):

I just, I just can't have people going to Google me thinking there. You're gonna see some of highlight tape at UCLA. It's just, that's just not the case. <laugh> yeah. Yeah. I gotta set proper expectations.

Rabah Rahil (02:30):

We'll take it one take. So how did you get into e-comm influencer marketing? I, I saw you did a little stint at CTC kind of take us through, through your, your journey.

Taylor Lagace (02:40):

Yeah, of course. Uh, well at college, one of my teammates, so I came, I got recruited at UCLA as a safety, a defensive back and in my, um, player's room or my position group room, uh, was P Diddy's son, um, PD, son. Yeah, yeah. Was Justin Combs. So, um, that was my first touch point with influence and marketing. So we just kind of lucked into it quite honestly. Um, and we did, we created a couple teammates of us included him, created a, an events company, typical college thing. Um, and every dollar of revenue was generated off the back of him just posting on social media. I mean, the organic algorithms were different back then, for sure. Yeah. Um, it's kind of actually synonymous to what TikTok is currently doing, um, where I was able to generate a ton of value. So, I mean, postcollege, I, I left that circle obviously and, and moved on, but that is definitely what sparked my intrigue with influence marketing set me on my journey. Um, from there went to an NFL marketing agency, um, where we represented guys like Aaron Rogers, clay Matthews names like that. So got a taste of the macro agency side of talent management type thing. Mm-hmm <affirmative> from there, went to CTC, built out the influencer department and then CTC common thread collective actually seed funded kinship three years ago. Um,

Rabah Rahil (04:01):

Interesting. I did not know that. That's cool.

Taylor Lagace (04:03):

Yeah. Yeah. So I was, uh, like Taylor holidays, quote unquote, uh, entrepreneurial apprentice for a short stint there, which is just a glorified way of saying I was like his assistant, but the man is a brilliant mind. Let me in an every room, let me in every room that he was in, taught me how to build a business and run a business with my partner, uh, Cody, uh, and then built the influencer department there and spread my wings kinship three years ago.

Rabah Rahil (04:29):

That's how incredible P Diddy to Taylor holiday to run in your own jam. I mean, that's a pretty cool jump man. That's that's incredible. What, what really excited you, I guess, was it, was it just rubbing up against the, the kind of, you know, uh, prominent people and seeing, wow, man, this can really drive revenue. Was it like what excited you about influencer marketing? Cuz there's, there's some, some, some aspects of it that aren't necessarily as appealing to others and there's some aspects that it, it really resonates with people. So what, what really clicked with you?

Taylor Lagace (04:59):

It honestly started with a bad taste in my mouth. Um, if I'm being honest, uh, at, at, at the NFL marketing agency I was working with, you know, it was all and right. Rightfully so I can understand why, but it was all client focused in the sense of like their clients were Aaron Rogers and clay Matthews. Yeah. The brands weren't their clients, the brands were partners coming in looking to pay, you know, these massive influencers, athletes, household names, but in, in all reality, they didn't care if the brand got an ROI out of it and they didn't care. Um, you know, how well the partnership performed, it was all about taking care of their clients who were these NFL players and make sure they got paid. Um, and those rates weren't based off anything, they weren't based off an ROI. They were just based off basically what their time was worth, um, which is just a making for a bad investment by a brand.

Taylor Lagace (06:01):

And so it honestly drove me crazy cuz it was just really salesy and not based off anything analytical, um, which really drove me, um, to seek attribution at its highest level, which ultimately I was able to have that common thread collective. And instead of working with macros, like it really drove me to find value and working with micros in a much greater way, in a much more cost effective way. Um, identifying influencers based off content creation ability in comparison to like these NFL athletes who built their audience because of, you know, their NFL stars are not quality content creators. So a lot of learning lessons, but long story short started with a pretty bad taste in my mouth. Um, love that with when working in the space,

Rabah Rahil (06:44):

You wanted to write the wrongs of the influencer marketing space and indeed you are. I mean, everybody that I know that's worked with your agency is, is smitten through the roof. Um, so from influencer, how did you get to like crossover into the DTC space is just kind of a natural, like this is just the easiest kind of overlap in terms of, um, influencer marketing or cuz you, you pretty much just specific into the DTC space, correct. Like you don't do lead gen or anything like that.

Taylor Lagace (07:11):

It's for everybody quite honestly. I mean, if you think about it, there's an influencer in every space. I mean just you as well. Like you have a podcast, there's probably someone that you respect in the podcasting field that, you know, inspires you or influences you. Sure. Yep. There's that for anybody and everybody within any given space, do we predominantly focus in D TOC eCommerce 100% for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but how I got into this space, um, again kind of just lucked into it. A lot of these things are just luck. I mean, you gotta seize the opportunity of course. But at, at the NFL marketing H agency, I was at one of their athletes was a guy named Jordan Palmer, brother of Carson Palmer. And Jordan Palmer actually was the senior VP of business development at common thread collective. And so he knew me from the NFL marketing H C I was at he's like, Hey, this guy does influencer. He knows his stuff. Like let's bring him on over to build out. The influencer department interviewed, got hired. And then I was in the DDC world. So really just locked into it. Um, I had applicable experience at the time, of course, but that was the connection point. He was a client at this agency I was at and then brought me in, had my interview with Taylor holiday and the rest was history.

Rabah Rahil (08:19):

The city of angels just connecting everyone. That's fantastic. Didn't his, his brother was fairly entrepreneurial. Right. Didn't he do? Uh, I have to pee or there was that movie site, right. That he did where it would, uh, show you the best times to pee in, uh, or use the restroom in a movie.

Taylor Lagace (08:34):

I thought that I'm pretty sure

Rabah Rahil (08:36):

Maybe I'm totally. Yeah. So maybe I'm totally making, he was

Taylor Lagace (08:38):

Entrepreneurial though. He's crushing.

Rabah Rahil (08:40):

Yeah. I know he, he did a bunch of stuff in that space, so that was back in, uh, that's incredible. So you have all of this talent, all of this opportunity around you. Was there any resources or mastery, like to your point, like luck only gets you so far, right. I mean, there's definitely a vector of perseverance of skill of like, did you use any frameworks learn any kind of, how did you skill up to such a, such a degree where you are now? Cause you're a young gun still too, right? You're in your twenties late twenties, right?

Taylor Lagace (09:10):

Yeah. I'm 28. I just turned

Rabah Rahil (09:12):

28. Yeah. Um, so I mean that's, I'm, I'm old. I mean, I I'm 36. I, when I walk around dust shakes off of me, so I mean, yeah. When I was in my twenties, it was, it was just, it's incredible to see what you've built in such a, I mean, you, you, you're young, you have the whole world in front of you and you you're, you're at such a, I mean, I can't think of a more prestigious influencer marketing agency than yours. So how, how, like what frameworks, or how did you gain all this mastery in such a quick way and build so much, uh, Goodwill?

Taylor Lagace (09:40):

Yeah. Well, one got a great partner in Cody WoodWick as well, who has had a plethora experience on his end. Uh, he was able to build the influencer program all the way up from the ground over at KLO. Um, and before we partnered up together, but I think just figuring out what doesn't work really early on, um, and having the experiences I did. I mean, again, I was able to be fortunate enough to, you know, have P D's son in my room and start a company him there. Sure, sure. You know, and that was 10 years ago now I 28. So that was 10 years ago when that initially, uh, took place. So 10 years of experience in the influencer marketing space is, is a decent amount, um, and was able to fail a lot, try all the wrong things, saw what didn't work and found where the real value is. Um, which was the birthplace kinship three years ago. And it's not, uh, uh, it wasn't the worst situation to be able to be in every room that holiday was in, uh, at common learning how to run an agency. Um, so that was incredibly valuable. That was a crash course master degree, um, without getting one. Um, so he was very lucky, dude.

Rabah Rahil (10:45):

Dude's wicked smart. I'm a, I'm a big Taylor holiday stand. He's a, he's a, he's a blue flame thinker. That guy, he really gets it. What advice would you give to aspiring entrepreneurs outside of being, uh, in P Diddy son's <laugh> dorm room, um, that you wish you had received

Taylor Lagace (11:03):

Find mentors as early as possible? Um,

Rabah Rahil (11:06):

Love that. I love that

Taylor Lagace (11:07):

That's the biggest value add that works for me. Like reading books, definitely read books, but there's nothing. And then be more valuable than having a mentor that you can ask questions in real time that are applicable to what you're experiencing right here right now. And having a conversation about it books a hundred percent, you can apply what you're reading, but having that face to face conversation, be able to articulate, you know, what's going on in the weeds of your business and have someone be able to speak to that is invaluable, invaluable, huh?

Rabah Rahil (11:35):

I, I, I told, I couldn't agree with you more there and it, sometimes it's a challenge to find, uh, mentorship. Um, but I was lucky enough to, I got a job. Um, there's a small company out here. Well, not, not, not a small, uh, Unilever, just bottom called on it. And I had the opportunity to work with a guy named Mar Marcus. I was basically his right hand man. Um, and I got to basically see all the aspects of running a business. Um, he was the CEO at the time. Um, and it was just really interesting to see, you know, I got to see him hire people. I got to see him fire people. I got to see him kind of, you know, the, the calf decal thing and, uh, yeah, that I think it can be incredibly, incredibly impactful. And then another thing in terms of mentorship, I find the most impactful mentorships are in three layers.

Rabah Rahil (12:16):

And it can be challenging when you're younger because you don't have the bottom layers. But, um, the layers that I think of is the bottom layer is you wanna help somebody that, you know, shepherd them along, that you're farther along their journey than they are. Then you want to have somebody at your level that you can respectfully talk to with the, you know, you know, candor where you, you respect their opinion, but they're gonna shoot you straight. And then you want somebody that above you that you can emulate. And if you can build that kind of three layers of mentorship, I've found that, um, really, really helpful to get you to where you need to go. And to your point, man, there's so much there's theory land, and then there's real life. And a lot of times they're not the same. And so being able to, yes, you need this requisite knowledge. You need to read up, you need to have these fundamentals, but, um, being exposed to it in real life and understanding how the world works can be, um, if not as impactful, more impactful in my opinion.

Taylor Lagace (13:08):

Well, no, I mean, do both just bring that theoretical thinking that you're learning and how to apply it to your mentors and to your council and that circle of trust, uh, that can speak into your life and your business.

Rabah Rahil (13:20):

I love that. That's that's beautiful, man. Okay. One last question in the main segment, what's the nicest thing someone's done for you?

Taylor Lagace (13:27):

The nicest thing, Ooh,

Rabah Rahil (13:29):

Come with the heat early. We got a preppy for rapid fire.

Taylor Lagace (13:34):

I recently got engaged. She said, yes, was the nicest thing ever done for me?

Rabah Rahil (13:37):

You know, I that's so funny. There's been multiple people that said the nicest thing is, uh, either getting engaged or, or my wife is saying yes and never the other way around. It's never the, the lady saying it. It's always the male. So congrats. You have a date set you honeymoon in what? What's the dates there?

Taylor Lagace (13:52):

August 21st Santa Barbara. If you can find the location, come crash. It

Rabah Rahil (13:57):

Let's go, baby. Are you guys honeymooning?

Taylor Lagace (14:00):

We are honeymooning we're thing in Costa Rica right now.

Rabah Rahil (14:04):


Taylor Lagace (14:05):


Rabah Rahil (14:06):

Let me know, man. I have some friends out there in U Vita. It's a, it's a be man. It's beautiful. That is one of my favorite places. There's this weird kind of, uh, get, not getting too hippie dippy, but I think there's certain places in the world that have like these, these healing properties and, uh, UTO, Costa Rica and Sedona two, the places I've been where I just go there and I just feel better. Like, there's just like an energy vortex or something. It just just feels better. I believe it. Beautiful. It's

Taylor Lagace (14:33):

A beautiful there. Isn't there something called like a blue zone that identifies those locations too. Nitty gritty into the,

Rabah Rahil (14:39):

It sounds right. It sounds, it sounds about right. Yeah. We're gonna blue. <laugh> we're gonna sell the maps. So the blue zones people watch out, oh, the show yours. That <laugh> exactly right. The shut notes. Describe now. But I mean, um, yeah, it's, it is Costa. Rica's gorgeous, man. I, I haven't been to the Caribbean site only at Pacific, but it's a beautiful, no standing army as well. Fun fact for you there. Wow. Really beautiful country, really? Uh, not cheap, but not expensive. Um, but really incredibly clean there's uh, um, big festival, right again, right outside of Avita or my friend's place, um, called envision. And I went to it, it's a big yoga festival and it was really cool because everything was biodegradable. So the only thing that was plastic. So even that the hamburgers had like wraps on 'em instead of, uh, or, um, like Leafs instead of actual, uh, paper. And the only thing that was, um, not biodegradables the plastic on the popsicles and the vendors actually had to take the plastic away, um, to dispose of it offsite. So, uh, really, really great, great choice. I love it.

Taylor Lagace (15:41):

Well, I'd love to do yoga use sometime, man. Be a great,

Rabah Rahil (15:43):

There you go. We'll we'll get into it. I love it. Uh, I sweat a lot though. So I tried to do the hot yoga

Taylor Lagace (15:51):

Cesspools everywhere.

Rabah Rahil (15:52):

Yeah. Pool slip and slide everywhere, but Hey, you know, trys have to battle, so let's get in there. That's great. Um, alright. The value add segment that man that flew through, it's like meeting a bud. I can't believe P Diddy Carson Palmer, Jordan Palmer. I mean the celeb hookup for days. Of course you're an influence for marketing this guy, this guy. Um, alright. This is why people bought the ticket, the value add segment. So let's jump in, let's get nerdy. Uh, what are the best parts and what are the hardest parts of running kinship,

Taylor Lagace (16:18):

Best parts having a partner. Um, and my COCE Cody for sure. Two, two minds are better than one. Um, you definitely gotta die to the ego there mm-hmm <affirmative> um, but if you, um, having a co-partner is huge. So I would say that's a perk, um, hardest thing, um, finding the right people, um, yeah,

Taylor Lagace (16:42):

That is invaluable. And probably the biggest piece, finding people that are a cultural fit, um, that one I'll honestly come alongside you and achieve your dreams. Um, and you need to be able to serve them as well, to help them achieve theirs, um, or whatever that looks like. Right. You could be a launchpad for them to, for their next position or to start their own company. Um, but finding the right people that are cultural fits and that get the job done and do it well, I would say that's probably the hardest part, but it's also the most fulfilling part.

Rabah Rahil (17:12):

I love that. How does that co CEO role work is there cuz there's no tiebreaker. So how do you guys, if you do have different opinions, how, how does that kind of materialize into a decision?

Taylor Lagace (17:25):

We have counsel? So if there, yeah, yeah. We have like a board of advisors, um, council that we go to cuz that's inevitable. Right? Mm-hmm <affirmative> and we have process in place for that and it it's worked out incredibly well for us. Yeah. If without it goes back to the mentorship piece, right. You need people not only in your individual sphere, uh, for your life, but I would definitely recommend for your business as well, having people you can go to.

Rabah Rahil (17:52):

I love that. Yeah. I, I think people forget like the OG stoic and like the OG, um, I mean, again, these were kind of more affluent people in the society, but they had mentors for basically or advisors for basically every part of their life in terms of their personal life, their romantic life, their business life, um, their philosophical life. Um, and so I, I think the more you can get that kind of mentorship in, um, I, I think just the better off you are and you, especially, if you can find people that care about you, you know, truly care about you and want you to do well. Um, that, that getting that perspective is just so helpful and you don't necessarily need to always take their advice, but just having that perspective and understanding of there's a different way to think of these things, cuz we're all riddled with bias, it's just the human experience. And so the more you can have those different perspectives, I think the more you can temper those bias biases, I think that's the plural, um, say a either way potato. So I wanna come onto your, I really like influencer marketing. I really wanna throw some money at you. Take me through the process of how you onboard a new client or like what does that look like?

Taylor Lagace (18:57):

Yeah, of course. So on a month I'll just give you the spiel on a month to month basis, uh, how we're coming alongside the brands we're partnering up with, uh, we're identifying and reaching out to a minimum of 500 influencers per month. Oh my gosh. And that's just a minimum it's as scalable as, you know, the brands want it to be, it can be 1,005 thousand, 10,000 infrastructures in place to do that. Um, how we're identifying these influencers, I'll just give you the full text deck as we go to in case you guys wanna try it internally. Uh, we use a tool called Tager, um, transparently speaking, the price we get for that is 1500. It might be a little bit more for other people since we've just been a partner for a long time and send them a lot of brands. Sure. Um, but 1500 a free tool.

Taylor Lagace (19:39):

There is Facebook brand collabs manager. That's a free identification tool and then TikTok create our marketplace is also a great free tool. Um, love it. So those are the platforms you can identify influencers on when you're going on those tools to identify influencers, you know, deep dive your customer data. Um, you wanna find influencers that align that, of course, but then you also want to go in the frame of mind of, you know, what persona influencers this customer. So it's two, those are two different influencers, right? And then align that, you know, persona fit, demographic fit, brand, fit all the above, get all that, plug it into your search engine tools that will help you, uh, and then have a white glove approach thereafter. So this is the most important piece. Uh, influencer's biggest value add bar. None is content creation ability. So once you identify all the quantitative metrics and align that with what you're looking for, white glove approach, can this person, you know, are they articulate?

Taylor Lagace (20:37):

Are they charismatic? Are they thumb stopping? Do they stop? You know, they capture my attention the first three seconds, like video content creation, abilities, everything. So before you look to build a relationship with an influencer, they need, need to check the box of and answer the question of, can you Rob a, sell me on the product, uh, that I'm offering selling through the video content that you ultimately create? If the answer is yes, then you are someone that is worth building a relationship with sending product to, and ultimately taking the next steps with. So that's how you think about identification, uh, and the platforms that potentially use next steps. There is actual outreach. Um, so we believe hot take the pay for post model is dead. Um, not because, you know, you don't hear of case studies, you know, paying Kim Kardashian in a million dollars and they brought in $3 million while I'm skeptical of that case study.

Taylor Lagace (21:26):

Um, there's just a better way without putting so much money out there, uh, that also lends itself to, you know, more authentic content and more authentic and genuine relationships with, with these people. So we believe in seating. So what that looks like after we've identified these 500 influencers, we reach out to all of 'em with a message saying, Hey Rob, we think you're a great brand fit. Absolutely love the content you consistently put out. We think you'd love our product and we wanna send it to you. No strings attached. And what we mean by that is we have no expectation of you to post whatsoever. Just send me your address and we'll get this right out to you. So you might be, you might be thinking we're sending that outreach message to 500 people and we're literally communicating. They don't need a post. Um, we do have expectations.

Taylor Lagace (22:12):

Uh, otherwise I probably wanna be on this podcast one outta an agency and we'd be bankrupt. Um, but so expectations wise, what we typically see out of the 500 that we identify a minimum of 20%. So if you look to do this internally, just apply these percentages. So if you reach out to less or whatever, it is 500, we, we identify 120% at a minimum will opt in to receive your product. They'll say yes would love to thanks so much great out of the people that receive your product. 30% of those will end up posting of their own free will free of cost under no contractual obligation incentive free two to three times on average each. So you end up with 30 influencers posting 60 to 90 assets for the cost of what they posted all for free for the cost of sending out a hundred products.

Taylor Lagace (23:03):

So if your cogs are 25 bucks, 25 times a hundred, you're looking at $2,500 investment for 30 influencers posting 60 to 90 assets. You're not gonna get that rate anywhere within the pay for post model. And then after they post, this is the biggest value add after they post follow up with them a message saying, Hey, Rob, so glad you love the product we sent you so much. So you were willing to share this content with your audience. Hey, we'd love to be able to share this content with our audiences as well. Can we have the rights to do so effectively getting usage right to all that content. Now let's reformat all of it and to add placement ready, uh, creative, let's caption all of it. And let's create iterations on those 60 90 unique assets and turn it into a hundred to 200 plus ads to launch into Facebook and across your other channels. So mass organic distribution play content creation, you know, supplement your paid media efforts play. And then you're just building genuine relationships with all these people. And then after they post onboard and affiliate program and constantly engage and reengage with 'em in that way. So super long winded. That's what we do.

Rabah Rahil (24:03):

No, that was so interesting. Yeah, there's the value add? This is where people get nerdy. So this is, this is, that's so fascinating to me. I, I love how formulaic you've made it, but also have this, um, humanity to it as well. If that makes any sense at all, where there, there is this architecture that you have and kind of an order of operations that you're running through, but at the same time, there's these really intimate touch points that you're building in to make sure that not only does the influencer feel like there's somebody that's coveted, but also that you are ensuring that the brand is gonna be aligned with the people that are most gonna be able to evangelize the best for them. I, I think that's, that's brilliant, man. That's a really cool, cool way to do it. And the numbers just work like you're talking about $2,500 cog. So, so we're basing 20, $25 cogs say, so you're talking about $2,500 nut, you got an agency fee that will pay you. And then on top of that, we're gonna get X amount of creatives. Like to your point. There's just, there's no way that you're gonna get that, that output, um, at the number or the quality or the sincerity, um, outside of the system. I mean, that's, it's really interesting

Taylor Lagace (25:09):

If you ever need a job, man. <laugh> so, and it's just, uh, you know, the biggest, you know, influence marketing has a bad rep too, you know, with a lot of people because it just comes off like scammy, it comes off, um, transactional, um, that's the biggest negative, the biggest con that people typically speak to when it's, when brands that have experienced or tried influence market, they'll say, oh, influence market scam. It doesn't work. Why would I pay this person post? This is completely non transactional. And so the people that ultimately are gonna be posting about you, it's not because they were paid to post it's because they genuinely love your product and your brand. And so they're authentically creating content when you pay someone to post that's, what lends itself to the bad rep of influencer marketing. That's where you get the sponsored post with in the copy. Like you can tell was copy and pasted and like you get the staged video or it's just kind of awkward. Um, yeah, none of that is at play here whatsoever.

Rabah Rahil (26:11):

And the other thing that I really like about this is to your point, I'd always be hesitant. Um, when I was researching influencer marketing in terms of making big bets, right, where it's just like, you make this one bet and I'm gonna give this person 25 K or 30 K or whatever, and then it's just crickets. And you're just like, what the hell did I just pay for like why this, this person was X or Y or Z. And it's like, they didn't drive any business at all. And now I'm on the hook for a 30 K nut like that, ain't the path man. And so being able to kind of make more, uh, I guess, conservative, but that's not the Des I'm looking for, but more, uh, logical bets that I can then scale up if necessary for me. Right. As like a CMO is much more appealing than me having to take this huge leap of faith, a lot of money, a lot of, uh, basically resources to maybe get some results versus being able to have 30, 40, 50 bets, um, at that level is way more interesting to me. And the knock on effects of the creative is really interesting. I, uh, it's very interesting. Very fascinating to me.

Taylor Lagace (27:14):

Yeah. That 25 to 30 K Nu is probably when I was at that NFL marketing agency had you on the hook.

Rabah Rahil (27:20):


Taylor Lagace (27:21):

No, but that was the, that your experience. That was the bad taste of my mouth. There's just a better way. Yeah.

Rabah Rahil (27:26):

Yeah, exactly. And I think too there, um, there's that weird kind of no man's land of like, yeah. Maybe if you, cuz I, I, I had the opportunity to work with Oprah for, or with not with directly with Oprah, but with a brand that was working and the Oprah bumps will. So I mean the Kim Kardashian thing might be real, but again, who has a million dollars capital mobilize, like, you know what I mean? There's only a certain, uh, sector of people that can actually do that. And so there there's that kind of no man's land of like people that you're gonna pay a hundred grand, 50 grand or whatever, and they're not needle movers. They, they they're just quote unquote influencers, but they're not needle movers for the business. And at the end of the day, it's your point? Why I like what you guys are doing at kinship is you're so rooted in the ROI for the brand where at the end of the day, man, most of us are capitalists.

Rabah Rahil (28:09):

Especially if you're running a brand, you're not, unless there's a charity, you're a capitalist. So it's not like you, you, you wanna make money. Like obviously you want your, you wanna make your clients' lives better and you, your product to make a impact positive impact in the world. But at the end of the day, like you, you have to generate profit to keep the lights on, to keep generating these, these cool products. And so if you're constantly just throwing these terrible, um, influencer relationships out there and just eating these huge nuts for no, no reason, it can be not the path. Definitely not the path

Taylor Lagace (28:40):

It's and it's just not a need anymore. Right? There's a formula to this. Like the Oprah lift, the Oprah bump is real and the Kim Kardashian bump could be real, but for every bump you get from someone that large there's every like cricket experience. Yes. Time and time again. Like why take the guess? Like you don't know. And like, and to have like the micro macro conversation real quick, a little bit, like when you compare micros to macros, we're really bullish on micros just to make a case for them. So if you're trying to start, um, start with micros, we do it all the time for all of our brands on a consistent basis. Or, and if you want to get to macros, start micro and then scale up to macro. But if you think about why micro, uh, and when I say micro, everyone has their own term 5k to 150 K in following.

Taylor Lagace (29:29):

Yep. That's like the bread and butter zone here. Plethora of just massive pool of quality content, creators and influencers. One, no agents or managers. Again, I came from that world. Um, someone trying to seed our players, our athletes products, our macro influencers products without paying them. It's extra work for me. I ain't letting you through the door. So you avoid those people whose livelihood is contingent off, hustling you for hiked up rates, avoid them. They get they're out two on a per follower basis, S have greater reach, greater engagement, greater conversion, rate, more niche audiences for you to align your customer, uh, with, um, so two and with seating you're gonna have, and I would take 10 micros over one macro any day of the week, right? So 10 micros with a hundred K each one, MI macro with a million aggregate, following the same greater reach, greater engagement, greater conversion rate, more niche audiences with the micro collectively.

Taylor Lagace (30:23):

And you're gonna have a, a greater than 10 to one opt-in rate with micros in comparison to macros to your programs. And then lastly, content following up for usage rights to micros, no drop off in the quality of content, 10 times, the amount of it, they flatter you wanna repurpose that content to paid media or across your channels. Can't tell you how many times, like what you want to use this so exciting. It's like, they're, it's a big day for them macros. It's like 10 plus K for 30 day usage rights, threes up <laugh> you know, like, so making a case here, the sexy thing is the macro Oprah win free deal. But the micros, if you have the team to put in the work is a much more effective bang for your buck.

Rabah Rahil (31:08):

Yeah. And I would also build on top of that, the turnaround time, like when you are dealing with these macros, it's like, dude, just dealing with superstar, like maybe I'll do it. Maybe I'll post it. When do I need to post it? Maybe

Taylor Lagace (31:20):

Deal with a teams too. Yeah,

Rabah Rahil (31:21):

Exactly. Gatekeepers. So there's constant gatekeepers,

Taylor Lagace (31:24):

So many hoops.

Rabah Rahil (31:25):

Oh, totally with you. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Um, when you think of like higher level, why do you think influencer marketing is so impactful?

Taylor Lagace (31:35):

Content content without doubt is the biggest value. And when you think about, when you think about influencers, not even as like distribution channels, we think of them as just a content creation. I love that ability there and be able to supplement all our own channels. So when we think about them like the distribution that they have, when they post organically, we see it as the gravy, the cherry on top that's awesome will take it. Um, but being able to take their content and repurpose it into our own channels, paid media specifically and predominantly that's where the real value lies. I mean, if you think about the market rate of a quality asset being created for your brand, to be able to repurpose into your own channels, you're looking at 500 bucks for a quality asset, easy, easy. I mean, you think about, okay, 60 to 90 unique assets coming from sending out a hundred products. It's just average it out at 75. If your cogs are 20, if it takes 25 bucks, it's 2,500, you know, a hundred products, times 25, 20, 2500 divide by 75, that's like 33 bucks. You just got each asset for 33 bucks from professional content creators that have proven to create content that works best.

Rabah Rahil (32:47):

He did the math in the head, people it's 33 and a third. That's impressive that I did it. That's impressive.

Taylor Lagace (32:53):

That works best on the platforms you're looking to advertise on. That's authentic, that's native to feed that's organic, all of that, that you're going after instead of your product studio shoe assets, that cost 500 bucks. I'm not saying don't do that too. You need both, but we have seen this content work incredibly well. And these people have proven to create content that works on the platforms we're looking to advertise on. It's incredibly inexpensive to do so if you do it the right way.

Rabah Rahil (33:21):

Yeah. I mean the, the math just works and I think there's a certain vector of relatability where, um, for sure, yeah, the MI the macro is aspirational, but, um, the micro is, this is relatability. Like I'm mic this guy or I'm mic this gal. Um, and you know, just this, this regular person, just kind of trying to better their life and getting value out of X or Y or Z product for, um, these different value props, I think is, is something that can't be overlooked where, um, there's a certain aspect of like relatability is a huge value prop for a lot of people. And, um, obviously again, the aspirational vector is definitely there for the macros, but I think there's, there's a lot to be said about people. Um, um, you know, that look like them or talk like them or what have you. And then you're like, oh wow, I can use this product too. And so it really opens up, um, a lot of, uh, interesting markets in that place.

Taylor Lagace (34:12):

For sure. You need to humanize your brand. This is a great way to do so that,

Rabah Rahil (34:16):

That beautiful, beautiful verb. I love it. Um, when you let's see, got maybe one or two more questions, talk about what is one challenge that you've dealt with with your business, and I'm sure there's multiple, but just pick a pick a favorite or pick one that you think would be helpful to, um, uh, O our listeners,

Taylor Lagace (34:39):

You know, one, one problem we faced, we knew seating, and this is just on the service side. So like figuring out our service right early on, we, we knew seating was the way we knew giving out product, no strings attached, building relationships in that way with influencers will ultimately lead to far greater output, um, in the long run at a much more cost effective rate for the brands we're servicing. But in the beginning, we had no way like Cody and I like super early on cause like Cody and I just like scouring the internet 24 7 for like, when these posts are going live. We're just like, man, this isn't scalable. Like this is just misery. Um, but then this tool, um, mighty scout came along, um, that was able to collect content like real time. Like everybody, that was a part of our seating program.

Taylor Lagace (35:30):

It's like a social listening tool, every single influencer. That was a part of our seating programs. You know, we don't know when they're gonna post and what sure. There's not like a contractual date and time. So we just plugged in all of their handles in there, super cost effective. I think it's like two bucks a person that you upload in there. That's brilliant. So worth it, right. If you see a hundred influencers is like 200 bucks, I'm gonna tell you that that was the best 200 bucks ever spent my life to save hours of just time. And then you, it collects all the organic analytics around these posts. It collect, you can collect all that content, download that content from within the platform. So you don't need to have the influencer, send it to you. It saved so much time. Biggest headache ever led to honesty what our seating process is today and was like a huge game changer for us. Mighty scout, definitely a plug right there for them, but they're incredibly valuable, uh, to us and our team.

Rabah Rahil (36:20):

That's beautiful. We might have to beep some of this out Taylor, you're giving away the keys to the kingdom here, man. This is incredible. Boy. This is amazing stuff. Um, one more question, and then we'll get you ready for the rapid fire. Uh, thanks. What do you think the biggest opportunity you see right now with TikTok is

Taylor Lagace (36:37):

Seating influencers. I mean, redundant here, for sure. But's massive play, um, seating, influencers on TikTok is the biggest play you can have. Um, like I said, it's like, we're seeing if we circle all the way back to the beginning of this conversation, their social media algorithm is unprecedented. It's like Instagram way back when right now. Yep. Um, so getting product in the hands of TikTok influencers, and honestly, you know, I said 5k to 150 K follower count is what we predominantly focus on on TikTok these influencers with even more following than that don't have agents or managers. It's just, it's just a unique time. So it's, you just need to take advantage of this moment right now. I would still stay smaller just to, you know, head your bet, but I mean their algorithm, it doesn't matter really how much following you have. Every video has the opportunity to go viral.

Taylor Lagace (37:33):

And that's what we've seen time and time again. Um, yeah, it's, it's incredible. And then that content as well, like super quick and you know, it goes to the next shot really fast, like it's content that works well, even when you repurpose it into paid media on Facebook, like some of the, I was just gonna say that yeah, the most, the highest top performing ads that we've ran with influencers have been on Facebook, but it is from TikTok content that we're repurposing into Facebook. So organically, if you're activating influencers, TikTok take advantage of this moment, definitely seed influencers on TikTok right now, but then do not be afraid to repurpose that exact content into Facebook ads where 100% we're seeing far greater performance on the paid media side in comparison TikTok. They're just leaps of bounds ahead of the game still and their ability to find conversions at cheaper rates. But yeah, so that's my answer to TikTok. These are long-winded answers, Rob. I apologize if I'm

Rabah Rahil (38:27):

Leaving. No, the value. No, we're just a witness in your world right now. This is exactly what I wanted. This is, this is my favorite part of the segment or favorite segment. Oh, behind rapid fire. Cause I get to beat you up a little bit, but no, I mean, I think you're just spot on there. And interestingly enough, like what I love about TikTok and the algorithm too, is it's pretty much agnostic from your social graph where like, it's just your interest and what you're interacting with. And I, the kids won't, you you're a youngster, so you won't get it. But, um, it's almost like a really supercharged, um, America's funniest home videos had a baby with YouTube. Oh, you know that reference,

Taylor Lagace (39:03):

Come on,

Rabah Rahil (39:04):

You know that reference. Okay. Okay. You young guns here. You're young guns, but it's, it's crazy because that's

Taylor Lagace (39:10):

The, like the OG of Taj point. Oh and Robb your dad.

Rabah Rahil (39:12):

Exactly. Yeah. Come on. Oh my gosh. I just total small digression. I just watched a crazy documentary on Rob deer deck and basically the last two or three years, he's like 75% of MTV's programming. It's just all ridiculousness. I I'll have to show link in the show notes. It's nuts. That guy is a really interesting entrepreneur. It it's crazy, but, uh, impress. Uh, yeah, it's just fascinating to me though. It, but with TikTok, because you know, there, there's just so much breadth of content, which is like, I've found out about a section 1 79 tax deduction on there. Like what, what are you talking about? Like there, there's just all these little pockets of awesomeness and that algorithm is so good that it's gonna surface really compelling videos. And to your point, it's not an incumbent platform where breaking through on Instagram or Facebook. Yeah. Right. Dude. I mean, the incumbents are there and they're gonna be there and you're not gonna to throw them. It's really, I mean, organic breach is all but dead there. Right. Um, whereas TikTok man is really like, you're buying a lottery ticket every time you post, which is, is pretty incredible to think about. And um, everybody's oh, it's just kids. There's a ton of demographics across the spectrum on there where growing

Taylor Lagace (40:21):

Daily, too

Rabah Rahil (40:22):

People, oh my gosh, man, people are doing work on there doing some serious thumb stuff. And so, um, and furthermore, to build on your point IG reels, isn't horrible. And so like throwing this into either your YouTube reels or your IG reels is, is very, very, um, similar and you're, you can't go the other way, which is weird. Uh, I haven't seen people go, um, like IG reels to TikTok, but I have seen a ton of success of TikTok being successful. And then you toss it over into the Facebook ecosystem and then it crushes on there as well. So for sure, I mean, you're, you're getting, uh, almost double dipping if you will. Um,

Taylor Lagace (40:55):

Yeah. Oh, and just to, just to double down on this a little bit, not to beat a dead horse, but like organically speaking on like Facebook or IG, you're gonna reach 10% of your audience as an influencer on TikTok. If it's very easy to reach the entire audience, if not, you know, far exceed that audience might allowing that, you know, to go viral. So if you go back to the seating example, oops, these apologies real time. No worries. Let's go back to the seating example. 30 influencers posting 60 to 90 assets on TikTok number is game here. Even further. One of those is gonna go viral. If you're identifying influencers based off video content creation, ability, their algorithm, honors video content creation, building more than anything. Exactly content goes viral by the ability of that content to be consumed by the end viewer, the more that content gets consumed, the amount of time that content gets consumed, consumed, it goes, it unlocks the next level of virality unlocks the next, like next level of virality. So on so forth. So one of those posts will go viral. Just it's a numbers game, starts seating influencers.

Rabah Rahil (41:57):

I love that, man. And just to wrap this up, what's also cool is TikTok has a lot of really interesting abilities. Um, like video comments is really fascinating where you can interact with your, um, your audience even more, um, on top of duets, there's all these cool things that you can do to, um, iterate on top of that core piece of content, um, to get even more legs, more influence, more conversions out of it. I mean, it it's absolutely the path. Taylor, you're such a gem of human. I love it, but I gotta do it to you. Are you ready? It's rapid fire time.

Taylor Lagace (42:27):

Pepper me.

Rabah Rahil (42:28):

All right. Let's go. John wooden overrated UN underrated,

Taylor Lagace (42:32):

Underrated for sure. He is the goat. What do you mean the

Rabah Rahil (42:35):

Goat? Let's go influencer marketing overrated under

Taylor Lagace (42:38):

Man, that underrated. Of course, John wooden was a maker of men. Come on, man. He exceeded incredible the game of basketball. He led it to the ship and he just led MI just men to just being amazing humans.

Rabah Rahil (42:49):

Incredible humans. Yeah. Yeah, man. He's a he's

Taylor Lagace (42:52):

Maker of a me.

Rabah Rahil (42:53):

I love. Yeah. Great, interesting. Really interesting. I, I went to IU, so I have a little bit of the basketball pedigree, but nothing like to be fair. Yeah, yeah. To be fair, Bobby and I was a bit of a Dick, uh, and he, he, he, he kind of, but John wooden was maker of men is a really good descriptor. He, the, the, the people that went through his program were just, uh, they came out as really good humans, um, which is, you know, almost more, um, impactful than the, the actual sports of it. Yosemite, overrated, underrated,

Taylor Lagace (43:21):

Underrated, Yosemite is an incredible place. Yeah. You can see big Sur back here, but to be honest, I would take you Yosemite over big Sur. That's a hot take maybe, but I would. It's incredible.

Rabah Rahil (43:30):

They're both. I mean, you're, you're talking about tens outta tens. They're both. I mean, they're both ma I haven't been to Yosemite, but thank God. You're the third California kid I've had on here. And the first two hadn't been to Yosemite and it absolutely guided me ways as I'm, I'm not super religious, but I, I hear that. There's just this, this almost religiosity that you get when you kind of drive into the Meadows and you just see the, the big granite cliffs and the gorgeous rivers and everything. It's, uh, it's supposed to be

Taylor Lagace (44:01):

Thank God for who was it? Theodore Roosevelt. Yeah. Thank God for him, Teddy. Yeah. Yeah. Thank God Teddy.

Rabah Rahil (44:08):

He's incredible. Actually, if you guys wanna a fun read, there's a river of doubt. It's about his, uh, trip down the Amazon, uh, really, really fascinating guy. Really, really fun read, uh, U GC overrated, underrated.

Taylor Lagace (44:21):

These come on. Tossups

Rabah Rahil (44:23):


Taylor Lagace (44:23):

Overrated. Oh, of course. Is underrated. Come on. Oh, beautiful. Well, well, well, I GC influencer generated content underrated.

Rabah Rahil (44:29):

That's different. Okay. Okay. That's underrated. But U GC is underrated as well. U GC in the whole.

Taylor Lagace (44:36):

I love all content. I'm taking IGC over U GC though.

Rabah Rahil (44:39):

Okay. So what are we gonna say? It's properly red. You gotta get, gimme an answer here. U GC in general user generated content. If it's

Taylor Lagace (44:46):

Underrated, if it's not for, if it's not influencer content, I'd say overrated.

Rabah Rahil (44:50):

Okay. See, see, I got an overrated outta you. Um, the NFL overrated, underrated,

Taylor Lagace (44:56):


Rabah Rahil (44:58):

Ooh, Ooh. I love it. I love are you more of a college ball guy or do you, do you not watch football? Sporty ball anymore?

Taylor Lagace (45:03):

I'm just, I'm, I'm doing I'm wrestling with, even if I like have my kids play, there's just cause obviously I play ball. It's a great,

Rabah Rahil (45:09):

Yeah. Yeah. So I didn't think

Taylor Lagace (45:11):

All time with, do I allow my, my kids to play? Yeah. I've seen concussions have a big impact on people's

Rabah Rahil (45:17):

Lives, Hernandez thing as gnarly, right?

Taylor Lagace (45:19):

Yeah. And you see it firsthand from college too guys, like have to medically retire. I didn't

Rabah Rahil (45:23):

Even think about

Taylor Lagace (45:24):

That. Medically retire from too many concussions. See personalities change. It's like, Hmm. I think it's, that's a

Rabah Rahil (45:30):

Really good point. You're close to the metal on that. I didn't think, I

Taylor Lagace (45:32):

Think it's, I think it's, I think it's an overrated man. Yeah.

Rabah Rahil (45:36):

I love it. Um, fishing overrated, underrated.

Taylor Lagace (45:40):

Ooh. I'm not a big fisherman, but I like the idea of it finding peace and you know, somewhere calm to just relax and reflect. I think fishing's a great, a great way to do that. So I'm an advocate of it. I can't claim it though.

Rabah Rahil (45:53):

Okay. Okay. I can dig it. Snowboarding, overrated, underrated,

Taylor Lagace (45:56):

Underrated. I love it. I was just in Tahoe. Uh, last weekend.

Rabah Rahil (46:00):

There you go. There you go. Do you ever do any skiing or strictly snowboarding?

Taylor Lagace (46:04):

I'm trying to transition. I got, I pretty bummed back from football. Um, yeah. Yeah. And I've just heard skiing's a little bit lighter on it. So I'm trying to make the transition.

Rabah Rahil (46:13):

I love it. Uh, favorite DTC brand.

Taylor Lagace (46:17):

Ooh. Animal house fitness. Really cool. Brand brand.

Rabah Rahil (46:22):

I'm familiar. Oh, cool. I have to drop a link in the show notes. How could I not know them?

Taylor Lagace (46:26):

It was just a, it's a cool brand cool product. Um, they came out a Mitz C um, and it was actually a guy that lived across the way from me at UCLA, but they've scaled zero to 7 million over the last year and a half. Woo. Let's go. Um, been featured on Joe Rogan podcast several times, but it's basically, basically it's an attachment for your foot. Um, that allows you to attach to dumbbells where you can lift dumbbells with your legs now and like your feet. It's a pretty, how pretty neat, neat product. Yeah. He was an engineer at UCLA rad guy. Name's Paul Jackson found of the company, but I'm a big fan of theirs.

Rabah Rahil (46:59):

Shout out Allen, my house fitness, fantastic name. Uh, favorite thing to do in California?

Taylor Lagace (47:04):

Go to the beach in the water.

Rabah Rahil (47:07):

Any specific like Venice beach or any, any beaches in particular that

Taylor Lagace (47:12):

LA beaches are a little yeah. If we're gonna go underrated, overrated, overrated. Yeah. Um, when you see like the lake Los Angeles Lakers commercials and they're showing Palm trees in the beach that that's, that's Laguna beach. That ain't LA. Okay. So I'm, I'm here in Newport. Um, so that's, that's

Rabah Rahil (47:30):

Nice area.

Taylor Lagace (47:31):

Yeah, but I always strong guy. Laguna's the nicest beaches. The path. Yeah,

Rabah Rahil (47:35):

For sure. I love it. Uh, favorite meal and why

Taylor Lagace (47:40):

Favorite meal? I love sushi. Um, yeah. All right.

Rabah Rahil (47:45):

Any, do you do the Booie rolls or you kind of a, a simplistic guy? What do you get

Taylor Lagace (47:49):

Love salmon. Um, yeah, I keep it, I keep it pretty simple, man. I enjoy making it as well. Um, oh

Rabah Rahil (47:57):


Taylor Lagace (47:58):

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, how cool salmon, avocado, cucumber, white rice.

Rabah Rahil (48:03):

You ever get crazy with the shashimi

Taylor Lagace (48:05):

Sometimes. I mean, it's a little bit simpler too, so yeah.

Rabah Rahil (48:08):

You had a straight, raw fish. Let's go. I mean,

Taylor Lagace (48:10):

Let's go. You're definitely having Sahimi as you make it cuz you can't help yourself, so.

Rabah Rahil (48:14):

Okay. Okay. Well man, of many talents you are Taylor, uh, favorite place travel to and why

Taylor Lagace (48:19):

YouTube's a crazy thing by the way on that you just YouTube. Thanks. Uh, Thailand, Thailand

Rabah Rahil (48:25):

Unbeliev. Interesting,

Taylor Lagace (48:26):

Unbelievable place. Um, beautiful.

Rabah Rahil (48:29):

I've heard that.

Taylor Lagace (48:29):

Yeah. White sand beach heard that incredible culture, incredible people, incredibly expensive, incredibly expensive. Um, I remember I took, I took a tour of like these islands on a boat all day, one day and it came with drink and meal and it was like 33 bucks split between. So it was like five people, 30 bucks each. It was just like what? And it came with scuba experience. Like just unbelievable. Yeah, it was wild. That's

Rabah Rahil (48:55):

Incredible. So you're Patty certified then you, you know how to get under

Taylor Lagace (48:58):

Water? I'm sorry. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Sorry. Snorkel. Snorkel. Not scuba.

Rabah Rahil (49:01):

Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Still that's amazing.

Taylor Lagace (49:03):

Delineate massive delineation. <laugh>

Rabah Rahil (49:05):

Still amazing. It's so odd to be under the water, whether it's snorkeling or um, uh, scuba, but scubas really, uh, breathing underwater is the most odd thing I've experienced. Favorite way to spend your time

Taylor Lagace (49:19):

With my fiance brownie points,

Rabah Rahil (49:22):

Mom, this is, this is twice you brought up her marriage, her engaging to you. And this is

Taylor Lagace (49:26):

That's right. Nice

Rabah Rahil (49:28):


Taylor Lagace (49:29):

Yeah, let's go quality time though, man. That's my love language now, you know, that's,

Rabah Rahil (49:33):

That's beautiful. Yeah. How small day aggression are you like a time blocker? Like how, cuz I struggle with that. Like I have to block it in my calendar. I feel sometimes I have, especially working for early stage startup. I haven't been showing up probably the best in my relationship as, as I, I should be. What, what's your trick

Taylor Lagace (49:51):

Time blogs for sure.

Rabah Rahil (49:52):

Yeah. Time. Okay. Hard,

Taylor Lagace (49:53):

Hard stops at certain times. Um, blocks at times that are just off limits. Yeah. Big proponent of boundaries and parameters. And you know, if I wasn't she'd hold me to it. So accountability as well.

Rabah Rahil (50:07):

Add away. You guys are paired up correctly. It seems. I love that. Uh, favorite follow on Twitter.

Taylor Lagace (50:15):

Roba come on. What'd you go?

Rabah Rahil (50:16):

Whoa. Let's go. Come on folks. Get you a follow out there. That's good. All right. You you got one

Taylor Lagace (50:22):

More that's on Twitter.

Rabah Rahil (50:23):

Let's go coming in hot. All right. You could have dinner with three people, dead or alive, fictional or non fictional. You're at a four person table. You're sitting at the head who comes to dinner. Who do you invite?

Taylor Lagace (50:34):

Oh man. Wow.

Rabah Rahil (50:37):

I know. I see. I was taking it easy on you at the beginning.

Taylor Lagace (50:40):

Three people dead or alive.

Rabah Rahil (50:42):

Hmm. Fictional or non fictional. So they can be real or fake.

Taylor Lagace (50:45):

You know what I would have? Hmm. I would do Jesus Gandhi, Buddha. Ooh,

Rabah Rahil (50:54):

Wow. Quite the religious bent. I love it. That would be an incredible conversation.

Taylor Lagace (50:58):

It'd be fascinating.

Rabah Rahil (51:00):

A lot of wisdom there. A lot of wisdom there. Pretty amazing. Talk about some influencers too. Huh? Rich. Come on folks here

Taylor Lagace (51:08):

All night and that's how we tie it all together.

Rabah Rahil (51:10):

Yeah, that's it. That's how we close it out. Taylor, tell the folks how they can follow you. Tell the folks how they can get more involved in kinship. This time is yours. My friend.

Taylor Lagace (51:18):

Yeah. kinship.co kinship with a Y. So K Y N S H I P dot C website. Just got redone. Shout out, Harry. Do to see website webpages. He's phenomenal. Oh,

Rabah Rahil (51:30):

He's the best. His feeds.

Taylor Lagace (51:31):

Amazing too. He's great. Incredible. And just qual quality guy. Not to go off on tangent here that dude serves like, talk about a guy that is good at what he does like his craft, but just serves people like anytime you wanna get on a call. He's great. Um, but we're Cody and I, my partner Cody are both, uh, really active on Twitter. So yeah. Great feed. Try to give as as much value as possible way. Uh, if you're looking to find tips and tricks, um, what's

Rabah Rahil (51:58):

Your handle,

Taylor Lagace (51:59):

Taylor, Laga say just straight and then Cody ick Cody underscore ick, I believe, uh, on Twitter as well.

Rabah Rahil (52:06):

We'll put links in the show notes as well, but fantastic. Taylor, this is such a fun time. I'm so glad that you could bring back the light to influencer marketing. I know there is, there's a lot of, uh, misconceptions about it. And I think, uh, after people listen to this episode, those misconceptions will be eradicated. And then, um, hopefully they'll either build their own system or if they got more money than time, they'll come to you and have them get you some influencers. Uh, thank you again, man, for all the scheduling conflicts and stuff. This has been one of the ones that I've been looking forward to on the calendar. So it feels really good to finally get in the books. That's 27 folks. Unbelievable. If you do wanna get more involved at triple well, we [email protected] Uh, we're on the bird app at triple well, and then we have an incredible newsletter that goes out every Tuesday, Thursday called whale mail. Uh, you can subscribe right on our Twitter feed. Taylor, congratulations on the incredible engagement on all the success. We are rooting for kinship. It's one of our favorites. And if you guys need some influencer or awesomeness, Taylor is your man. And that's it. Anything else, Taylor?

Taylor Lagace (53:07):

No, you were born for this man. You're a really good podcaster. Great host. Thanks for having me. Ah,

Rabah Rahil (53:13):

Yeah, I remember right in the fields. I love it. And you did it after the rapid fire, so it's not dirty pool. You weren't even trying to soften me up. That's a, this guy's a gem. This one, uh, Taylor, if you're ever in Austin, give me a shout and that's it. Folks. We will see you all on the flip. If you love this episode or previous episodes, we'll be on the YouTubes or any podcast, uh, feel free to share with everybody. And that's all we got. Thanks again, Taylor. We'll talk soon,

Speaker 3 (53:36):


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