Tim Masek (00:00):

Subscription defines the, I guess, the cadence at which you receive goods and membership. Uh, defines mo the benefits that come with engaging with, uh, a brand, putting your money where your mouth is, and engaging with a brand for the long term.

Rabah Rahil (00:21):

All right, folks, we are back from another row. As all the way from France, we were able to wrangle Tim Masek, bring in yellow and sexy back to the internet with one 800 D toc.com. Tim, thanks for joining the show.

Tim Masek (00:36):

Uh, yeah, pleasure, pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me. Roa.

Rabah Rahil (00:40):

Yeah, and for, so some of you that don't know, I just found this out actually offline. Tim's first language is actually French. He is right now living it up in the, Is Corsica considered the root French Revere? No right

Tim Masek (00:51):

Part.

Rabah Rahil (00:52):

No, no,

Tim Masek (00:53):

No. So French rere

Rabah Rahil (00:54):

It's

Tim Masek (00:54):

Beautiful though. The south and then it's an island off the south. Yeah, it's wonderful. Yeah.

Rabah Rahil (00:59):

Yeah. I, uh, my fiance wants to go there, there, it's a, it's very commo que vibes, Right. Where it's like, it's just stunning.

Tim Masek (01:07):

Well, yeah, you've got, The cool thing about Corsica is you've got the mountains and the beach all really close to each other. It's like super mountainous. Yeah. But a tiny little island in the mud.

Rabah Rahil (01:18):

So you were telling me you actually grew up, cuz you went to school in the States, right? You went to, uh, NYU and then Cornell.

Tim Masek (01:26):

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I, I, uh, I grew up in Europe. I was living, uh, I was, I was born in France and then I lived in London for a number of years. And then, uh, because I have the US passport, I was able to go study, uh, in the us. So I went to NYU for undergrad and then stayed there, worked, uh, in the advertising space. Um, and then, and then after a number of years being in New York, I, it was like nine years total. I, I decided to move back to London where I lived full time. Um, it was just nice to be closer to home, closer to, to Europe. And uh, I've been there since, uh, yeah, for the past three years.

Rabah Rahil (02:12):

So I was recently out in London, I gotta tell you, fantastic city, really fun city. But I don't know if I just didn't do it right or I had previously went to Barcelona. And again, it's not an apples to apples comparison in New York. And London is probably a more fair comparison than a Barcelona to London. But I gotta tell you, it's incredibly expensive. Like the hotel room I got was like a regular hotel room. It was a million dollars. Flights were really expensive. Uh, it's crowded and like, not in a So Barcelona. Like I love, especially when I go to these cities, cuz there's really not any walkable cities outside the US in term, uh, except for New York. New York, you can kind of walk, but everything else is fairly, the, the people in the states love our cars. Yeah. Um, and Barcelona was just such a dream.

(02:56):

Like I could just walk around there carefree. Like it was just really set up to walk. They have these big thoroughfares. All the crosswalks are awesome. You don't have the stress of traffic. Where London, I didn't get that people, And this had to drive you crazy. Coming from a New Yorker for nine years, like in, in Manhattan in specific, like, you get trampled. Like if you don't walk, you'll like, you gotta go f like it's a, in London, people just stroll. You can't get around them. He was driving me crazy. I will give you restaurants though. The restaurants were amazing and possibly I didn't do the city right Cause I didn't go to the palace. I didn't go to Tower of London, I didn't do the museum. Uh, pick Adly Circus. That area is really cool. It was a cool vibe, but I don't know, give gimme, stand up for your city here. Cause I was a little bit, uh, bearish on it when I went, I I was gonna, I was more bullish than when I left.

Tim Masek (03:44):

Well, I mean, so you also went to Barcelona, which on, and you have to know that you're on vacation mode. So when you're in Barcelona on vacation mode, uh, it's, it's a great place to be. And there's a couple other town, you know, cities in, in Europe that are wonderful over, over the summer break. Um, when it comes to London, it's a very livable city. That's the right word to use. Um, it, okay. It's, it's a place where you'll find good, good business opportunities, good work opportunities, um, and, uh, and you'll be able to have some, some sense of balance New York. So, so you can compare it to New York in that way. And you wouldn't compare it necessarily to a Barcelona for those reasons. Um, New York's also great for the, for the work opportunities, et cetera. And as you said, people walk extremely fast.

(04:32):

They do everything extremely fast, which is, is all the charm to New York. And that's why you want to be in New York. That's what you wanna get out of New York. But, um, for many people, I, there comes a stage in their lives when they, they say, Okay, well, uh, do I have to sacrifice all my balance for, for, for this? And um, and for me that, you know, that, that happened a couple years ago and that's why I decided to move back to London, which is still a fast paced city. Lots going on, but a lot more widespread. Uh, and a lot more balanced. So the, the last thing I'll say on London to to big it up is it's got so much to offer it and it's difficult to experience that on like, um, a one off. I'm trying to experience London as a whole. So it's, it's a very widespread city

Rabah Rahil (05:21):

That I will give you. I think that was also something that I didn't really recognize where, um, somebody's telling me it's also, it's almost like two X New York, which is like bananas to me. Cause New York is just such a massive metropolis. And so that's fair. And maybe that's what it was where, uh, I really wanted to live in my bubble of like, you know, 30, 45 minute walk from where I was staying. Um, so that's fair. I did get to go see, So Soho district was cool. I got to go to the, so the OG soho house, that was really cool. You guys love your little kind of clubs. So a friend of mine had a, I think it was a homegrown club, like these just little kind of very inconspicuous houses. And you go in them and they're just like, these just gorgeous plaster everywhere.

(06:00):

Like very cool. So that was neat. But yeah, I don't know. It was just, um, great cars to be fair. So I had recently went to Dubai, uh, three or four months ago. I forget when. And Dubai is just crazy cars, but there is probably, on average the cars are probably nicer, quote unquote in Dubai. But the hypercar like the real rare ones I've never seen more than I have in London. Uh, so that was, that was a treat for me. I'm a bit of a car guy, but I take your point. You're you're bringing me back around. Well, I have to, maybe I have to give another shot and give it more of a, the breath. Hers was crazy. That was one of the most incredible things I've experienced where the Dubai Fashion Mall was over the top. But here it's like the real estate. Just the real estate. And no alone has to be just mind bogglingly in terms of net worth. Like, I mean, you're right in the middle of everything. This beautiful building.

Tim Masek (06:48):

Yeah. Nice bridges. Like that's, that's a very expensive area. And that's where you'll see all the hyper cars. If I, if I can ask what's uh, what's like your dream hypercar?

Rabah Rahil (07:00):

So it's funny you say, I don't really have a dream hyper car. I mean, so like the Bugattis and the like, like the fancy ones. I'm a simple man's simple pleasure Tim. I like, I think like the supercar for me would be the gtr, just gimme the souped up gtr all wheel drive. I won't kill myself in it. I still get a ton of performance. There's still some, some connection with the common man. You know, you don't feel like you're too far apart. Um, in that a la Ferrari would be nice. We saw one of those where it's just, I don't know how that works though, because do the shells behind the seat have like reinforcement or something where they just so wide they're never gonna flip. That was the one thing that, um, worried me a bit. If I was that rich, I'd want to have some se to safety.

(07:42):

But that was a sexy car where it's just this, the lines on it. Um, we saw GT 40, which is also a sensational car, but it's not as, it's super awesome car, but not as fun in the, or it's even more of a flex in London obviously, cuz the, the import taxes are like a car loan by themselves. Um, but yeah, I guess a la Ferrari would be nice. I think the lines on that are just so sexy. But, um, uh, if I was gonna get like a super car, non-hyper car, it'd probably be like a gtr and they're not insanely egregiously priced where you can get one, you know, 80 ish K. It's still amazing. Hmm. What about you?

Tim Masek (08:19):

Um, well, so I, like, I I, I don't know that if I ever was, was, uh, in a position to buy one, I I don't know that I would ever even buy a hyper car, to be honest with you. Right. Uh, uh, but like the coolest one I find out there is that F 12 super fast.

Rabah Rahil (08:38):

Ooh, I, I have to look this up. I don't even know this.

Tim Masek (08:40):

It's a, it's a Ferrari. It's a Ferrari, Ferrari F 12 super fast. It's just, uh, it's just such a cool,

Rabah Rahil (08:47):

Oh, that we saw one of those. That is a stunning car. Okay. I'm a I'm a bit of Ferrari guy. I do think, like if I went kind of premo douche where it's like, Hey, forget it. I'm just gonna let people know where it's at. I, I think I would get rr that's a beautiful car. That is a beautiful

Tim Masek (09:04):

Car. But obviously the, the, like, the coolest ones are all the vintage, the vintage cars, like a vintage nine 11 is really nice. And, uh, yeah,

Rabah Rahil (09:14):

We saw some pretty fun, um, OG like Mercedes and stuff where it's like, yeah, they have, there's just like a little bit of class on that. Um, yeah. Yeah, it's beautiful. Okay, maybe you brought me around to London Fair point. Um, do you, like, do you like London more now than New York? Do you miss anything about New York?

Tim Masek (09:32):

I miss a ton of things about New York. Uh, and I, I do, I love living in London. It's, it's where I want to be right now, so I'm super happy there. And then, um, I do go back to New York twice a year for a month every time. So I'll do one month in a fall, one month in a spring just because, well, I love the energy there. I have a lot of friends who live there and there's lots of things happening in the world of eCommerce and related to work. So those are like three good reasons to, to go back and, uh, yeah, I love it there.

Rabah Rahil (10:06):

That's amazing. How did you get, I mean, nyu, Cornell, there's a fairly prestigious universities. How did you get into marketing, advertising, D toc?

Tim Masek (10:14):

I, the, the first, I initially, well, basically I've been, um, I've been, and I think a lot of people can relate to this in this space. I've been a fan of, uh, consumer brands since I was a kid. Uh, so I always thought they, like I connected to a pair of Nike's, uh, in quite a strong way. And it helped me define my identity, for example. And that was not just with Nike's, but with a lot of, lot of different brands. And, uh, and I don't think there's anything like wrong or like consumerist about that. I think it's, uh, this is just how I, how I felt. And so when I went to university, I, uh, I realized that I kind of wanted to learn what was the art to creating these, uh, these powerful brands. And so that took me into the world of advertising.

(10:59):

And then when I was in advertising, because I was also super interested in entrepreneurship, which is very related to tech, especially at the time, uh, like that's all we spoke about, uh, in New York. And all we saw, I said, Well, I don't, I don't just want to do like big ads for, for big, big brands. I want to know what it takes to grow a brand in the same way that you're doing it with triple well, for example, if I was to become CMO of a business tomorrow, what would I do? And that took me in the path of performance marketing, growth marketing, which is actually very much in its infancy. Uh, this was in, you know, 20 14, 20 15. So, so still actually pretty early. And, um, I worked for an agency where, um, uh, the founder was one of the, uh, most knowledgeable people in the space at the time, and he taught me everything I needed to know about growth marketing.

(11:58):

So I got the technical skill set there and I was tossed in the fire with, you know, complicated clients and all that stuff. So I learned to fend for myself and really learned these skills, uh, on my own. And um, and that's when I started working on a lot of econ businesses because that was the early heyday of Facebook ads and all that stuff. So a lot of people are just trying to milk, milk the machine, and I was helping them do that. Yeah. So that, yeah, so that, that's how I got from sort of university into the world of, uh, brands and then into the world of performance, which is then correlated to the world of tech and entrepreneurship and eventually all the way back around to one 800 d c and the kind of stuff I'm doing now.

Rabah Rahil (12:39):

Yeah, That's actually a beautiful progression. I love the thing that you said about Nike. What do you think drives that type of like, I guess just emotional connection? Is it just resonating with you? Is it aspirational stuff? Is it success? Is it the people they align themselves with, like a LeBron or whatever the, the Rondo or whoever you, you know, aspiring to. What do you think the secret sauce is? Cause I'm with you on that. I think that there's a certain aspect that those, uh, what am I trying to say? Those concepts or basically pillars of awesomeness kind of relate to D to C as well, right? It's just at a smaller scale and it's just different goals, right? Like Nike kind of just wants to be everywhere, whereas a D TOC brand might not have those resources to be everywhere, nor do they need to be because they have a totally different cost structure, et cetera, et cetera. But what are some of the things that you think, like you said in Nike, like other brands that either do well or like, what do you think makes that aura of brand? Cause I have this weird, um, aversion to brand. I think brands this really nebulous term, but it's also really important to create a brand. I just like to hear how people think brands manifest.

Tim Masek (13:53):

Yeah. Well it's a, it's a very tough question to, to, to answer. And I think that's what I tried to set out in my career to at least understand a little bit better over time. Um, but you're, you're basically tapping into something, uh, that, that, that, uh, that is very personal and emotional for somebody. And so for me, when I think of Nike, for example, I, I think about like the grit and the hard work and, and, and so I love that. Just do it or the people, they back and, and the, the events they put together, everything they do ties I think to that, to that emotional idea of like, anybody can do anything. Uh, just, just get to work. And, and, and for me, that resonated a lot with me. And, and so the great brands, uh, uh, of the world, I think are able to, to do, to do something, uh, to touch, to touch the human on an emotional level.

Rabah Rahil (14:56):

Yeah. Very well said. Very well. Have you read Shoe Dog, the Phil Knight memoir?

Tim Masek (15:00):

Yeah, yeah, of course. Have you?

Rabah Rahil (15:02):

Great. Yeah, yeah. Great read lot, lots of boozing, lots of boozing in Japan as well. Crazy shoes in Japan. But a very fun read,

Tim Masek (15:11):

Crazy story. Amazing, amazing entrepreneur and yeah, it's just, it's funny how it all starts from, from track and I don't know if you're into running, but Yep. Uh,

Rabah Rahil (15:21):

I am actually.

Tim Masek (15:22):

Oh, you are? See, I wouldn't get, I wouldn't get long distance running shoes from Nike necessarily, but, uh, of course they make great, you know, tracks French running shoes and all that stuff. But it's funny how it, that that kind of evolved over time.

Rabah Rahil (15:39):

Yeah. Fire on the track, pre Fontain, he was, uh, a big, I used to actually run the Division one cross country and track, and he was a big, big inspiration. And then we would buy, uh, uh, the Nikes, uh, there was a mid middle distance to kind of longer distance guy named Bob Kennedy. And he had, um, specific spikes so everybody would wear the, the Bob Kennedy's and stuff. But yeah, you're absolutely right. Everything you explained in that kind of previous segment is exactly when I unwind why I wanted to wear like the Bob Kennedy's and I was into Steve Prefontaine and I was a big, um, Organ Ducks fan, just, I have no connection to Oregon outside of, um, Preta and then Phil Knight. It's basically like a pseudo Nike campus where he basically gives them whatever they want. He's a huge donor there. But yeah, it's, it's interesting how, and it's almost fascinating sometimes because you can't really connect the dots backward or you can't connect them forward. So like, to build this strategy out would be really difficult. But like, when you look back at it, it seems so, not amateur, but very, like, for lack of a better word, novice and strategy. But it's actually very high level and complex in terms of the output.

Tim Masek (16:48):

Yeah, totally. It's, it's so <laugh>. It's, uh, it's, it is difficult to look back on on a recent period and then it become, you can start to make see patterns or you, you at least try to make sense of everything and, and, you know, with enough time, I guess it would be, it basically, I think it would be an easy task to draw comparisons within anything. So you'll, you'll find, you'll find a storyline no matter what. We have enough time. Uh, but like you said, it's, uh, taking the next step is that's the least amount of, um, I guess the, you can, it's the most amount of, uh, like gradient where you can go cuz it's your first step. So it's gonna naturally have like the highest sort of gradient in, in one way or another, if that makes sense.

Rabah Rahil (17:39):

It absolutely makes sense. It really sets the tone of where you're gonna go. And then your next step is obviously a function of your previous step. And so you're gonna obviously always have that, um, there. I love that, man. Uh, okay. One last question for you and then we'll move on to the value add segment. What's the nicest thing someone's done for you?

Tim Masek (17:57):

Mm, I don't know if I, I mean, so, so many, so many <laugh>. I, I'm grateful for so many things and, and, uh, I'm trying to think of like 1, 1, 1 good thing I'll tell, maybe I'll just give you one, one story. One of my, one of my, uh, good buddies, he, uh, he, I was, I was trying to run this race and he was, uh, he wasn't a big runner himself. And, uh, and uh, and I really needed a ride to go like deep upstate to get there. And he was like, Fuck it, I'll take you. And he drove me like couple hours and he actually ran the race, uh, as well as a non runner. So that's a, that was a nice, that was a nice recent gesture.

Rabah Rahil (18:50):

Oh, that's beautiful. Do you still run a lot?

Tim Masek (18:53):

Uh, it's not too much. I, I run like once or twice a week, maybe twice a week. And, uh, and relatively short distance, like five to 10 K. Yeah, nothing, nothing too crazy. Yeah.

Rabah Rahil (19:05):

Yeah.

Tim Masek (19:06):

What about you?

Rabah Rahil (19:07):

Yeah, I love it. That's amazing. Um, no, I didn't, I did my time. I already, I, I used to run, uh, like I said, competitively from 16, I'm 37 now, I'm super old. But from 16 to 23, 24, um, yeah, it was, it, I loved it because it helps you understand the, I always said running was the easiest, hardest sport cuz everybody can do it. But to be very good at it, there's just all these kind of extracurricular things that go into it. But the big challenge for me was, it's a 365 kind of sport and there's not really a lot of method to the madness. It's ultimately, and again, this is probably just my myopic view of it, but it was just who can put in the most miles, quality miles that pace without getting hurt? Those were the people that won the races. And so it was always just this, how hard can you push your car?

(20:01):

Uh, metaphorically speaking, but there's a certain, there's a certain beauty to it. I did, so I recently got into meditation in the last four or five years, but I think my mental aspect was really, cause I'm a little crazy, a little aggressive kind of. And so running was a nice way, it was like a very meditative activity. And we had some really nice parks. I grew up in Indiana, um, that's where I ran. And so we had some really nice parks where we could just run and, you know, six, seven miles just in the forest running was actually a very, um, mental cleanse for me. So that helped out a lot, but it was just hard and going to school, um, and running was just really difficult as well where like, I'll tell my kids, unless you're gonna go pro in the sport, like you have an objectively objective shot to go, or you are, um, really in love with the sport.

(20:50):

So I, I loved soccer, football. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, that was, that was my passion. And then, um, I ended up just being really good at running, so I just took that on, got a scholarship, et cetera, et cetera. But I never loved it. It was just, I was good at it, if that makes sense. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and so with things of that nature where it's not, and I I I don't say this as a pejorative, but it's not necessarily a quote unquote talent based sport. It's a really an endurance based sport. Um, and so when you have that, there's just not like a lot you can do. It's basically just run. Whereas like when you play soccer, you could juggle, you could work on passing, you could work on shooting, you could work on strategy. There's all these different aspects to the game that you can work on.

(21:30):

There's an off season where you rest and stuff like that where running was just, just pervasive constantly throughout the year. And I was good, but there was kind of like levels to it where I was probably like the third level of good where there was like, these guys are gonna be pro athletes, These guys are incredible. And I was like, the worst of the best, if that makes sense. So I knew I was never gonna beat these top guys even like my best day, their worst day, I'm still not gonna touch 'em. Like, these people were just absolute machines. And so there was a certain aspect of like, I'm giving up all these pieces of my life for, um, something that I'm never gonna be able to be at the top of. Was always something that kind of stuck in the back of my mind where I was just like, ah, I like to play games, I can win. And I was playing a game that I, there was just no matter how hard I trained or there's just, you know, it is what it is. It is a good life lesson though, where it's just, you know, some people are built different where it's just, it is what it is and trying and play games that you can, you can win versus just kind of pissing, pissing into the wind, if you will.

Tim Masek (22:32):

<laugh>. Yeah, I mean, I guess it's a, it's a, it's all about, uh, like you were saying, uh, ultimately passion. And like, that's, that's what the person who's gonna outwork you is probably the person who's gonna have, uh, more passion for the sport or for the thing they're doing. And to be honest, uh, kudos to you man, for, for, for being, uh, a D one, a D one runner, because you're right, I can't think of many more brutal sports to, to take part in. I mean, it's just, uh, I have so much admiration for, for runners. It's just like you said, there, there, there's nothing to it. You just get up and run every day until it hurts. And, and that's it.

Rabah Rahil (23:16):

That's it. They're the only two people, uh, swimmers and wrestlers. Those were the only two other sports where I was like, All right, you guys, you guys have it worse than we do. But, uh, yeah, definitely, uh, very high on this commitment slash pain scale. Okay, quick pivot into the value add segment. This is why the people bought the ticket. Tim, why'd you start one 800 dtc and why is it called that?

Tim Masek (23:38):

Um, so I started one 800 DTC to help e-com operators identify the right tools for their business business. I thought it was a little bit difficult to keep up with all the new and, uh, latest technologies. Uh, and, and there wasn't a good resource out there to help you sort of distill that information down. So that's why I started it. And the reason why it's called one 800 DTC is kind of a play on, uh, uh, a yellow, uh, yellow Pages directory where, uh, you're, you're, you're, you're essentially organizing lots of information and you can imagine. So that's why the website is all kind of, uh, yellowy, uh, and it's got hints at that. Um, and then the name one 800 D two C, it's, it's almost like a, a phone number called this helpline to, to get some answers on the world of dtc.

Rabah Rahil (24:30):

I love it. Yeah, it's fantastic branding and so fantastic website. You're a very good writer. Um, which is, again, even more impressive that it's your second language that you're writing it, which is crazy. Um, what are the best parts of running it? What are the hardest parts of running it?

Tim Masek (24:44):

Best parts? The best part is easy. I'd say it's, uh, speaking with people like you and I genuinely mean that. Like I, I'm a, I kind of see myself as like a, a glue in the, in the ecosystem helping again, e eco, uh, individuals find access the right technologies. So I get to speak to people who are building awesome brands, which is ultimately what, what's like my real passion, what I've always been drawn to, but also meet the, the, the enablers, the, the tech platforms, the great entrepreneurs who are able to, to, to build awesome businesses to support those d TOC brands. So that's by far the best, the best part. And then, um, the toughest part, toughest part is, uh, uh, I guess managing, managing roadmap and, um, and then keeping, keeping everything, all the different plates spinning. So I, I have boots, I am bootstrapped, you know, and I'm doing this mornings, evenings, weekends, uh, which is with, with, again, without like a, a like a, a massive bank account behind it to, to fund it. So everything needs to make sense. Like the revenue needs to come in at the right time to then fund the initiatives, et cetera. And, uh, and you, there's so many ideas that I have and I just have to take it step by step and not, not, uh, not bet the house, you know, do things, do things at their own pace. I think that's one of the, it's, it's a fun piece as well, but it's also a tricky part of the, the, the puzzle.

Rabah Rahil (26:17):

Yeah, I go back and forth on this cuz I, I'm, we're kind of in the similar vein of we're really, really scrappy, but at the same time, we do have some coffers to lean on if we do have an initiative that we want to kind of push forward. But I think there's a certain aspect of, like, there's something in economics called the resource curse. So like, the more resources you have, it can kind of be like a, a horrible thing, especially if you don't have like a great government in place, blah, blah, blah. And I think there's something to be said about that a little bit in D to C when people raise too much money and they just are looking for ways to spend the money versus looking for ways to push forward business objectives. And then they realize, okay, I need X or Y or Z resources.

(27:03):

And I think it's nuanced, but there's a certain flip where it's like at a certain point, like for example, like a cmo, like when you get all this money, there's a certain pressure that you feel to spend it, right? Where it's like you don't, investors don't give you money just to sit on it. Like they want you to deploy the capital, but at the same time, you need to be deploying it in a really efficient manner. And so there's this really nice tension that you have where sometimes I think when you have so much, so many resources, you lose the scrappiness that got you to the place that somebody wanted to give you resources. So it's a bit paradoxical. Do you, do you feel like that, or do you think like if you guys had more money, it would be roses and, uh, butterflies?

Tim Masek (27:41):

Yeah, no, I, I definitely agree with you, uh, like wholeheartedly and, uh, I think it's a really nuanced and tough discussion because, um, obviously having more resources is a, is a good thing. Uh, so yes, you want more resources, but you wanna stay scrappy. So finding that balance is tough. And I will say this something I've been thinking about, it's not nothing too deep, but like, uh, I've been on a few demo calls recently with very large, uh, tech companies and, and you meet, you meet some individuals or you meet, like, you kind of get insight into the org, the org structure, and you're like, like, is this, are we just adding red tape for no reason? Yes. Like, does this need to be there? And and that's obviously money and resources that they're spending on, on extra parts of the, of their, of their, uh, their machine.

(28:37):

And, uh, it might not always be money well spent, but the reason they have that money is not necessarily because they've raised, It could ultimately just be, I mean, we could talk about like a Google or like a Facebook with the Facebook reps that I don't know if you've ever had the pleasure of, of speaking with et cetera, <laugh>. Uh, but it's, it's not because they've raised, it's just because they have so much money and, and they have so much money because they're tech platforms and pla tech platforms have the beauty of scaling, uh, like disproportionately faster than the, the, the, the people, the manpower behind it. So when you have all that extra cash from your revenues, et cetera, you're kind of just like, well, why not? Why not hire 10 people in this department? And then you have a department that doesn't really move the needle. Uh, and so, so it doesn't always have to be tied to, you know, VCs are bad and it's bad to take VC funding and all that stuff. Totally. It could also happen from revenue.

Rabah Rahil (29:37):

That's a really, that's a really ing point. The, the other thing too that I would say is there is a certain assumption that when you hire more people, um, things can become more efficient, you're gonna move faster. And if anything, I found the opposite, where there's a certain aspect of for sure, like when, so for example, I was basically running the triple well marketing department by myself up until February. And then we started hiring people, and then there was like this, Oh yeah, we finally, there's more hands on deck, blah, blah, blah. But there's a certain aspect of, to your point of like that weird 10 person team of like, what is everybody kind of doing with their day? You know, like there's a certain aspect of like, just adding headcount for headcount sake or hiring into the future, um, I think is, can be smart in some senses, but that's predicated on the fact that, you know, what the future's gonna be.

(30:25):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and then two, we've experienced sometimes where, and again, this is early stage startup, so you, you just have all sorts of very unique experiences, but sometimes just hiring or more headcount means less efficiency means less productivity. Me. And it's very, again, kind of paradoxical in that sense of like, you have more people doing less work mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and so that's kind of a place where it really helps to, again, going back to like those scrappy roots I think is really, really pressing. I love the vc uh, idea though. That's a really good point. Like money resources aren't necessarily inherently bad, but they can give you, uh, the ability to fake your way into thinking you're being productive when you're actually, um, just light hundred dollars bills on fire.

Tim Masek (31:12):

Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's tough for everyone. It, it's not, it's tough for, it's, it's, it's a, it's a challenge that, that most businesses will, will incur and no one yet necessarily has like the silver bullet to solve it.

Rabah Rahil (31:26):

Yeah. No, very well put. Um, so you are rubbing up against a lot of these d toc founders, these D to c um, creators, all of this. What do you see some of the kind of biggest mistakes that you encounter with these people? Like, do everybody, man, I wish I wouldn't have done that. Or this is something that in the future I won't do again?

Tim Masek (31:44):

Um, yeah, good question. I think there's maybe two things that I can call out. Well, one, the, the DTC game is, is incredibly difficult. So ultimately it comes down to, to grit and passion. To go back to one of the earlier points, those are gonna be the founders that stand the highest chance of, of winning. Um, so, uh, but, but the, the first, the first mistake I might see is people not focusing enough on, uh, uncovering like where they fit into the world. Why, why should

Rabah Rahil (32:17):

Love that?

Tim Masek (32:18):

Yeah. Why should people go here instead of there? And just, it's not because you, you know, you managed to get a couple thousand orders in your first six months that you've secured your place in the world, um, in the way that other, you know, uh, uh, established brands have. So,

(32:39):

So just, just taking those orders for granted and not digging further as to understand the psychology of, of the, the purchasers behind it is, is probably a mistake. Um, and then a mistake that I enjoy talking about a little bit, uh, because it, it could be paradoxical with the, the line of work that I'm in, but it's, um, uh, uh, beefing up the tech stack too much. Yeah. Too, too early. Yeah. And adding on too many costs. So we could talk about the tech stack. Ultimately the costs on a tech stack, they're not gonna, yes, they can break the bank in some instances, but, uh, it's, it's not gonna be, it's not going to ruin your business necessarily. And it's easy to turn on and off. But so, so you could make a bigger point about spending in general, and we were just talking about human resources.

(33:28):

Yeah. Uh, hiring too many people who, uh, don't necessarily have a role that's fully secured. But to go back to the point about tech stacks, cuz again, I do think it's interesting with my position in the market, um, you, you, you can, I've seen great businesses and I've interviewed fantastic businesses who have gone really far with, um, super lean tech tax because ultimately, uh, a tech tax is not necessarily like a revenue driver. It's more like help, it's like an operations component. It helps you run your business more efficiently, get more insights faster. So well put. Um, and so, so yeah, so, so don't, don't, don't go crazy, don't go crazy shopping. Uh, which, you know, people rarely do, but I, I do encounter some instances where people ask me, like, And what should I do for X? And I'm like, Well, you probably don't need to think about X until six months from now,

Rabah Rahil (34:28):

Man. I think that is so on the head. And it sounds funny coming from, you know, one of these people in living in the techs a with Tdab. Um, but I think there's a certain aspect of making sure that you're just not getting tools for tools sake. Like there should be some pain that you're filling that this tool then alleviate and or platform or what have you. Um, because I do feel like there's, like I knew, I, I know a guy that's doing some really cool kind of return stuff and um, the businesses he's working with are massive, massive businesses, and two of 'em are still literally operating off a spreadsheets. I'm talking multi-billion dollar companies and the whole company still run off a spreadsheet, which absolutely blows my mind. But to your point, um, you know, there's a certain aspect and maybe they should find a tool set <laugh> that they can move into. But I think that's a really great advice where you can get into some really weird quagmires, especially too, if you get into like six or 12 month contracts where it isn't as easy to turn on and off and you're like, Oh man, I'm on the hook for 5K a month for a tool that's not even making my business any better and I'm just bleeding this money. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, I love that. That's a really, really pressuring point.

Tim Masek (35:34):

And actually even more to like, to, to your point, uh, more realistically when you're talking about five to to 10 months contracts or more, you're, you're looking at, you're talking about agencies and yes, founders, founders do, do make that mistake quite a bit. It's hard to meet a founder who has never been burned by an agency <laugh>. It just, it's just, it's just, uh, it just happens. Um, yeah. And, and so I guess if there's ever ever a piece of advice on that, it's, um, yeah, try and stay away from these long term, uh, commitments. These, these, and, and, and if you can go month to month, that would be the, the best negotiation tactic.

Rabah Rahil (36:16):

Yeah. That's what I recommend for people where if you can, you know, even if you have to pay premium for the optionality, it's much better to pay one or two months that are inflated, then you can pull the rip cord versus you're dealing with a 6, 8, 10 month kind of horror story of you're just bleeding money and these people are taking up your time. They're not doing good work, et cetera, et cetera. Not that there's not great agencies out there, but there's definitely a lot of fuckery in the space where Yeah, you can, you can get into some, I love how you said that. It's very, it's really hard to encounter, uh, d TOC founder that has not had some sort of horror story with an agency. That's, that's so true.

Tim Masek (36:52):

<laugh>.

Rabah Rahil (36:53):

So I was doing some research on you and I was, I saw you have a little bit of a beef with subscriptions. So do you wanna talk about that a little bit with your, uh, cuz I love how you, you have a, a instead of subscriptions you think I should be framed in terms of memberships. And I thought that was the most clever. Like I absolutely loved it. I, I I'm almost thinking of like, we need to change our triple well subscription to become a triple well membership. And part of your membership is X, Y, and Z. Like, I think that is one of the coolest mental model flips, um, on the planet. Do you wanna talk a little bit about that?

Tim Masek (37:25):

Yeah, sure. Um, I mean it's, it's, it is actually happening like, you know, lots of, uh, lots of brands are changing their terminology on their sites to talk more about memberships as opposed to subscriptions. Um, I think like a subscription is, that's almost like the, the business model term that a, a company like Spotify or Netflix might use. And uh, but when you're dealing with a brand, you're dealing with something emotional, something that you want to feel a part of, it's much nicer to be a part of a membership. So, uh, subscription defines the, I guess the cadence at which you receive goods and membership, uh, defines, uh, more the benefits that come with engaging with, uh, a brand, putting your money where your mouth is and engaging with a brand for the long term. That's, that's the rough, that's the rough idea behind, behind all of that. And so, as, the one example I often talk about in terms of memberships, and you might know this brand too, they're called Rafa, They do cycling gear.

Rabah Rahil (38:30):

Yeah. Peripherally, I know them peripherally, but not super in depth.

Tim Masek (38:35):

Such a cool business. I mean, they're, they're not necessarily a DTC darling because they're not known for that, but they make, uh, they make cycling gear for, uh, for super, uh, for, for super enthusiasts of, of road cycling. And they've got these retail stores and lots of different locations. So in London, in New York, in sf, like all and all over the world, and as part of a membership with Rafa, you can buy premium gear that's all pink. And so when you're out on the road and you're seeing somebody rocking the, the pink Rafa gear, you're like, Oh shit. You're, you're a legit, you're, you're a legit cyclist and you're a real diehard, uh, Rapa fan and I can, I can spot you from ma away cuz you're wearing FCI pink. And also I can, I can start a conversation with you. So that's one of the perks.

(39:28):

The other perk you get is, um, well you're traveling Raba, you're, you're all over the world. You're wearing Barcelona a couple weeks ago, You love cycling, go to the RA store and as a member you can rent one of our bikes and their bikes are like premium, super premium. So you don't have to haul your bike all the way from Austin to Barcelona to go bike riding. You can get a very premium bike as part of the membership. That's the second benefit. And the third benefit is, um, once you're done cycling, typically cyclists, or at least there's a myth around that, I don't know if it's a myth or if it's, if it's reality, you go for coffee, you go for coffee with the people.

Rabah Rahil (40:09):

Yeah, yeah.

Tim Masek (40:10):

You went on a ride with, And so they have a coffee shop and guess what? Coffee's on the house if you're a member. So for me, I'm like, that's if you're a deep sea brand trying to build community and all that, you want to build membership and it has to kind of look like that. And one of the components of that, that's amazing. The, the, you know, you talk about loyalty and, and, and the other components that get tacked on to subscription and memberships, that's definitely a part of the equation. And then there's this whole nother topic. Cause I do think you're interested in the crypto space, the token gated experiences. Yeah. You know, where you get access to custom gear because you're a token holder, This is what's happening here, you're a member, you bought it online, there's no, there's no crypto or blockchain component at all, but you bought the membership and now you have access to the pink gear. And that's a token gated experience on its own, which, uh, which I think is a, a good model for the future,

Rabah Rahil (41:01):

Man, you're blowing my mind. We're changing the memberships tomorrow. That is such a cool idea. And the other thing that you really hit on that just illuminated like my, my mind is just spinning right now, is the inherent almost, uh, so not only the community and not only like the emotional connection, but it just feels different where the subscription does feel like a transaction where the community or the membership feels like a club and then I get these perks as part of, of that club. And so it like a transactional relationship versus, um, something built off of a community and then part because of part of that community, I get X, Y, and Z. It sounds like it's the same thing, but it's totally different. I'm not doing the math of like, okay, cool, this subscription gets me three cups of coffee, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, Oh man, I'm part of this community and these are all the perks that I can take advantage of to, uh, help either cement my status in the community to connect with other people that I care about that are interested in the same things that I am, or to have access to exclusive things that nobody else has access to. Nah, I love that. That's one of the, that's a big epiphany for me. That's a big mind shift. That's very well put.

Tim Masek (42:14):

And you know, another another thing to to, to kind of cement all of that to, to maybe think about is, um, a, a subscribed customer is not, they're not just a, people are are seeing maybe a subscribed customer as a higher LTV customer, but they're not just a higher LTV customer. They're somebody who's like stalking their home with your goods and probably tells all their friends about your goods. They're consistently, you know, putting your stuff in their, in their world. So they're, they, they can't wait to talk about your brand. They can't wait to share it with their friends. They can't wait to be the evangelist. They're not just a higher ltv. They actually have power to influence many people around them. So they're, they're a real community member. They're, they should be a member, not a subscriber

Rabah Rahil (43:01):

Man. That's brilliant. That's absolutely brilliant. I love that. Um, how do you see the next two to three years unfolding in eCommerce?

Tim Masek (43:10):

Um, I, I think, well

(43:16):

Probably more, I would say more emphasis on brand than in the past few years. Just because, uh, it's just such a brutal game out there. And, and as we talked about, that's what, that's what makes the difference between a good brand and, and it and not so good DTC brand. It's grit and passion, uh, uh, for, for solving, uh, a real problem in the world and seeing where it fits in the market. So more, more of that. Um, and, and I think like more sophistication of the, the space as a whole. We're still, we're still in the early days triple well is how many years old? Like a year and a half,

Rabah Rahil (43:58):

Not even. Yeah, yeah. Barely a year and a half really. Maybe six months of actual like really being around.

Tim Masek (44:05):

How crazy is that? And you know, you guys that's crazy are, are such a huge player in the market and you have such a great solution, uh, you know, in the next two years. Can you imagine how much more progress you're gonna make after that? So more sophistication and we'll get closer to, you know, what we were just talking about with Rafa, for example, to actually enabling those types of crazy custom experiences, uh, and making those available to the everyday merchant on Shopify. So more sophistication, more focus on brand.

Rabah Rahil (44:35):

Yeah, I, I totally endorse those. What about marketplaces? You've written in the past that marketplaces seem to be a big trend. Do you see those still cropping up or do you think those are kind of going to go away? Or like, kind of, I think Nick Sharma does something where he is aggregating some brands. Um, there's a few kind of like things going down where people are kind of aggregating all these other things in terms of a marketplace, maybe not per se like a literal marketplace, but I, I just know you've written in the past about kind of marketplaces and so I didn't know if you wanted comment on that at all.

Tim Masek (45:06):

Yeah, sure. I mean, I, I was, I'm super bullish on them and to me they make a lot of sense. And I was writing a lot about that six months ago. And to be honest, in the past six months, I haven't, I haven't seen, I haven't seen it happen Yeah. In real life. So, Yeah. Yeah. Is is it, is it gonna happen later? Is it never gonna happen? Uh, I don't, I don't really know, but conceptually I'm still bullish on it, meaning that, um, you know, uh, like a, an online an online, uh, we need, you know, like an online grocery store of your, like Air, Air one, Is that the brand? The, the grocery store's?

Rabah Rahil (45:45):

Like a little bit fancy? Yeah, yeah. Like a, like a fancy Whole Foods.

Tim Masek (45:48):

Fancy Whole Foods. And what, like, what do they pride themselves on is the curation of amazing products. So I just spoke to the team at taca, for example, that sells their coffee and their coffee's in there. Uh, I might want to buy a few other goods from Air one to, to try these different goods. And if they had a presence online, which they probably do, then I now have access to the, this marketplace where I can buy, where I can buy these goods. And for me, that's convenient. It makes a lot of sense. Um, so I, I thought there would be one already challenging at Dick Sporting Goods. Maybe it'll have to be you and I, uh, starting cut up. But, but there's so many, you know, so 10,000 Rowan, all these, all these stance, all these great sports, uh, DTC brands in one place, you know, to challenge a Dick Sporting is, can we make that happen? I I, I'm super bullish on it, but like you said, it's not really happened yet. So who knows if it's just a matter of time or if it's just not, not, not a good business to be in.

Rabah Rahil (46:54):

Yeah, that's a really good point. I didn't unwind the economics there, but I, I mean, cuz in a way, a little bit of one 800 D to C is a pseudo marketplace, right? Like, it's, it's a, a very nice curated directory. And so that, that, that's ultimately what a marketplace can and can't be. And then, yeah, we should figure something out though. Cuz I think you're really onto something. The one question I would ask you is, do you think a marketplace will be more successful under a brand or under a personality? So like a Nick Sharma having his own marketplace versus, um, one 800 D to Cs, you know, here's, here's the best apps to buy or hear. If that makes sense. Do, do you think a brand would be more successful or a personality run in a marketplace?

Tim Masek (47:34):

So I've actually thought about this and I think it's a really fun topic to, to discuss. Um, two points. One, I I think it would be, it would be a brand, um, because a person, um, will only be able to, to represent themselves. And so because a person has, uh, unless they're like an athlete of everything, they wouldn't be able to really provide a, a, a legit marketplace of sports goods, for example. So I think a brand would be able to do that. And how fun would it be and how easy would it be to sponsor athletes to support you as a brand of the marketplace? Because you're just giving them stance and you're giving them Rowan and you're giving them, um, you know, all the cool DTC sports brands, but it's from you. So they're rocking, they're, they're representing you and they're an athlete of you as the marketplace, yet they're rocking all these different brands.

(48:29):

So it's easy. Uh, I would imagine it's easy to find influencers who want to be a part of, of that cuz they get goods from lots of different brands. So that's one part. But the, the part about the influencer, um, this is something I've been thinking about a ton, uh, and, uh, and actually Adrian Alfi, if you've ever stumbled upon upon him, he's a, he's a writer. He runs his own content, a marketing agency, uh, called Verbatim. Uh, and he interviews, he, he introduces a, he in interviews a lot of founders with in a series called The Proof. And as a part of that, he asked them quickfire questions like, What's your favorite book? What's your favorite? This, what's your favorite? That? And it's some, what's your favorite way to wind down? And a lot of times they're quoting different products or different things. Ah, and that for me, that's the stack of the human. And I think Rob's got an interesting stack and I think somebody else might have a very interesting stack. Interesting. And so I always thought, I always thought about, you know, buying up a domain called or, or, or, or setting up a website called Life According To, and that would be brilliant, your favorite things. And that's your, that's your stack. So I think a marketplace like that, based on the personality works really well and it would work really well in a, in a lightweight sort of Lincoln bio type way. Um, but a marketplace as a whole for sports, I think that that should be a brand.

Rabah Rahil (50:05):

Tim, you're brilliant. That's amazing. That's really smart. And it gets away from the pigeon hole of you're getting the best of both worlds cuz you have the personality interviewing the other personality, but by definition you're gonna have differentiation cuz everybody is different. And so you're gonna have these different texts or these different life stacks, um, just by happenstance because everybody enjoys life and lives life in a different way, even no matter how nuanced. That's brilliant. That's a really good answer. I was, I was a hundred percent in on the influencer. But that's a, that's a way better way to do it. And then I do agree with you on the brand because the, the acquisition mechanics and the economics just work a little better with that brand, especially if you're trying to take over x, y, or Z vertical. Yeah. You have thought about this a lot. Those are very polished answers

Tim Masek (50:54):

And you know, you know what, the other thing I'll note on there is Amazon is, uh, has launched something, a friend of mine was showing me where if you're an influencer, you can now say what are your favorite items and kind of link the link a profile, your Amazon profile of goods. So it's, it's actually, it's actually already happening via, via the Amazon marketplace. You could have the Rob stack Oh, interesting. On, on Amazon. Which, which is pretty cool. You know, if you want to live like, um, you know your favorite athlete, you could technically just buy everything they own. <laugh> via Amazon.

Rabah Rahil (51:29):

That is so interesting. What an interesting pitch. I love that. Um, Tim, you made it to the rapid fire. Are you ready?

Tim Masek (51:38):

Uh, yes, let's do it.

Rabah Rahil (51:40):

Okay. Amazing. France. Overrated, underrated,

Tim Masek (51:44):

Uh, underrated.

Rabah Rahil (51:47):

Oh, I like it. London overrated. Underrated.

Tim Masek (51:51):

Underrated.

Rabah Rahil (51:53):

Oh, okay. Okay. Um, yellow branding. Overrated. Underrated,

Tim Masek (51:59):

Uh, overrated.

Rabah Rahil (52:02):

Oh, okay. I got one out of you. Uh, community. Overrated, Underrated.

Tim Masek (52:09):

Mm. It's hard. It's hard to build an active community. So yeah, just, just, just for shits and giggles, I'll say overrated.

Rabah Rahil (52:18):

Ooh. I like it again. Spicy. Turn off the heat. Uh, go to university. Overrated, underrated,

Tim Masek (52:25):

Overrated.

Rabah Rahil (52:27):

I

Tim Masek (52:27):

Like it. Yeah.

Rabah Rahil (52:29):

Uh, Shopify 2.0 themes. Overrated. Underrated.

Tim Masek (52:34):

Um, underrated.

Rabah Rahil (52:37):

I dig it. Marketplaces overrated. Underrated.

Tim Masek (52:41):

Underrated.

Rabah Rahil (52:43):

Oh, I like it. TikTok overrated. Underrated.

Tim Masek (52:47):

Underrated.

Rabah Rahil (52:48):

Oh, amazing. NFTs overrated. Underrated.

Tim Masek (52:55):

Overrated.

Rabah Rahil (52:57):

Oh, you're gonna catch some heat. You're gonna catch some heat. Um, what's your favorite meal and why?

Tim Masek (53:04):

Mm.

Rabah Rahil (53:07):

You're half French. You're, you guys do cuisine better than anybody.

Tim Masek (53:10):

They say that, they say that, but actually, like, actually I'm, I'm much more enjoy like, um, like a, like a Thai a Thai dish, you know, like going to a couple, there's a couple restaurants, Love in New York, for example, where you get a cow soy, cow soy for example. That's a phenomenal dish. And, um, so I guess let's go with that. That would be my answer.

Rabah Rahil (53:33):

Amazing. Um, what's your favorite podcast?

Tim Masek (53:38):

How I built this?

Rabah Rahil (53:40):

Yeah. It's, they're so good. They're so, so fascinating, so good. Um, favorite place, travel to and why?

Tim Masek (53:47):

Mm. Love going to New York now. I guess now that I don't live there, I love going to New York. Really. It's just, just, just the energy's there and the creativity's there. It gives you, gives you boost of everything.

Rabah Rahil (54:01):

I totally with you. My only pushback on York is I would burn up there. Like, it's just so energetic, but there's no way for me to turn off. I, I have a horrible time of, uh, like stepping out of the fire and I know I would just disintegrate there, but I love it. Manhattan, Brooklyn, all of it is just a really, really good vibe. But, uh, yeah, it's, it's too much for me sometimes and I hate the cold.

Tim Masek (54:23):

Yeah. You, you, you said place to visit. I, so I guess to visit, I, I would say I still say New York, but I agree to live. Yeah. Maybe not so much.

Rabah Rahil (54:33):

That's challenging. All right, last one. If you could have dinner with three people, dead or alive, fictional or non fictional, who would they be? So there's a four person table. You're sitting at the head, you have three seats to fill. Who's getting the invite from Tim?

Tim Masek (54:55):

Like, I want somebody really funny. So I'll go with like Eddie Murphy at the table. <laugh>, I think you're the first

Rabah Rahil (55:02):

Person that's chosen a comedian. That's a great point. Humor's such a diffuser. Yeah, it's a really good point.

Tim Masek (55:08):

Um, then somebody who's like, uh, let's, I, you know what, I've never been asked this question, which is quite funny. Yeah. Uh, give me, give me like a Jean Michelle Basco as well. I want, I wanna, I want an artist in there.

Rabah Rahil (55:40):

Very cool. Very cool. I just got to see a couple of his paintings. Uh, when I was in, uh, Bara, we, or not Bara, excuse me, Spain, we went to the Guggenheim in Bill Bow Epic. Very cool. Epic. Yeah. Yeah. Very cool. Okay, so you got John,

Tim Masek (55:55):

Java, Chava, Eddie Murphy, and then I'll go for, uh, an athlete. Uh, I definitely want somebody there, like a talk about a crazy person with a crazy work ethic like a Michael Phelps. Give me, give me a Phelps.

Rabah Rahil (56:19):

Yeah. Yeah.

Tim Masek (56:20):

I don't know how he would mesh with, with the crew and what the dinner vibes would be like, but, um, I'm sure he's got, he's got an interesting, uh, view of the world.

Rabah Rahil (56:31):

Yeah, it has to, right? I mean, there's no way you can, even with those natural gifts, like they were doing, uh, ESPN used to do sports science and he's like, if you were creating a swimmer from like genetics, he's like just perfect in every way. But even then you still have to put in the work. Like he's just, just supremely talented and being able to win that many medals is just beyond me. Like that is a really what an interesting table. That's a fun dinner. That's a fun dinner, Tim.

Tim Masek (56:58):

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know if I would give you the same answer tomorrow, but let's roll with that first dinner and it is gonna be a fun one.

Rabah Rahil (57:06):

It'll be a fun one. Amazing. Tim, dude, thank you so much for taking the time. If you're ever out in Austin, gimme a shout. Um, let the people know how they can connect with you, how they can connect with Hunter D to C. This time is yours, my friend.

Tim Masek (57:19):

Cool. Yeah. Well, thanks so much for having me. Um, in terms of staying connected, I, uh, am on Twitter, so you can find my personal account, Tim Underscoring Square msk, which I'll send over and one 800 dtc and then subscribe to my newsletter on the website. It's called Yellow Notes.

Rabah Rahil (57:38):

Yeah, it's fantastic. Tim's a phenomenal writer. One 800 DTC is actually sensational directory with a bunch of really great essays as well as, uh, text stack recommendations. Highly recommend it at least just go see the branding people, the yellow themed Yellow Pages. I don't, I know these kids know what Yellow Pages are these days, but you used to get this big book of a directory of all the people in your city that you could look up with businesses and phone numbers and the whole thing. So it's a, it's a wonderful homage to that. Tim, you've done a great job there. Um, yeah, man, I've just had such a fun time. I, I, I think this podcast I've been, that I've taken away the most from, like, you really look at marketing, acquisition branding in a very unique way that has really shifted a lot of my views.

(58:19):

So I really appreciate all your thoughtful and eloquent answers. Go follow Tim on the Twitters go read one 800 D toc and if you do wanna go get more involved with Triple, we are triple whale.com. We're on the Bird app at Triple Whale, and then we have a fantastic newsletter that goes out every Tuesday, Thursday called Whale Mail. You can subscribe by going to triple.com/whale mail, W h A L E M A I L. Tim, thanks so much again, you crushed it. Appreciate you taking the time from France. And then, like I said, if you're ever back in New York, we'll we'll connect or if you ever make it to Texas, uh, we'll take you out for some drinks. Have some fun.

Tim Masek (58:55):

Awesome. Yeah, thanks so much for having me, Rob. Big fan of yours and um, and also the Triple Well Fan, so appreciate it.

Rabah Rahil (59:01):

Appreciate you brother. And we're switching to memberships tomorrow. People you will no longer be able to buy a Triple Well subscription. It will be a Triple Well membership and maybe we need some, some fuchsia biking suits or something. Take a page outta Rafa, right? Like, oh, that's a Triple Well member. We know, we know. Yes,

Tim Masek (59:16):

Yes, yes.

Rabah Rahil (59:19):

Vir Lynn. All right folks. That's it. That's another eyes in the books. Thanks again, Tim. And uh, we'll see everybody on the flip. Bye.

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