This ONE Thing KILLS New Businesses W/ @Jason Portnoy

December 1, 2022


Hosted By

Rabah Rahil
CMO at Triple Whale


Jason Portnoy
Founder of JPM and the Market Domination Method™

Episode Description

In this episode of ROAS we have the heavy hitter Jason Portnoy go over everything marketing, from agency to clients, and how to build a strong business. #ROAS

Notes & Links

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Follow the people featured in this episode here:

- Rabah's Twitter: https://twitter.com/rabahrahil
- Jason's Twitter: https://twitter.com/jasonportnoy


Jason Portnoy (00:00):

I think everyone's still talking about latest trends, latest hacks, latest strategies meant build the foundations, understand the foundations of your store. Stop looking at what the new TikTok trend is and how do I get all on that? How do I diversify? I think a lot of people are trying to diversify without, without the tools in order to diversify and diversifying is actually gonna hurt them. Um, you know, just if you're complaining that Facebook broke your business, look inwards and figure out what you could do to be resistant to those type of things.

Rabah Rahil (00:39):

All right, folks, we have a hitter for you today from the great white north. We have Jason Portnoy, perfectly mentored agency owner crusher across all the channels. Jason. Welcome. Thank you. Thanks for coming on the show, my friend,

Jason Portnoy (00:54):

Hey, uh, super excited to be here. Love everything you guys are doing. Love what you're doing personally. So just super excited to be here.

Rabah Rahil (01:02):

Uh, you see the pro setup. I think you have the nicest setup we've had so far. That is, that is Primo. What are those action figures? Those cool

Jason Portnoy (01:08):

Man, this podcast setup, but, um, these are all my, my childhood action figures. So my mother never threw them out of the ninja turtles, uh, superheroes Slimer um, and then original game boy, original game gear, a candle from demon, John, some hockey stuff, some press, and then memorabilia is up there.

Rabah Rahil (01:30):

Oh wow. So folks

Jason Portnoy (01:32):

And then some amazing painting from my little kids. So

Rabah Rahil (01:34):

Look the most, the most important memorabilia there. That's fantastic. Um,

Jason Portnoy (01:39):

Every time, every time I leave my office, I come back and there's a new piece of artwork they decide to put up here. So

Rabah Rahil (01:44):

Yeah. It's, it's amazing. That's fantastic, man. It's fantastic. It has a little bit of the, uh, the abstract art. They have the, have the culture. It's

Jason Portnoy (01:51):

Beautiful. We're gonna NFT one day, but yeah,

Rabah Rahil (01:54):

<laugh> I actually have a question about that. Um, so I am in Austin as always in the marketing HQ. Where does this podcast find you? Jason

Jason Portnoy (02:03):


Rabah Rahil (02:05):

Oh, beautiful. Beautiful. Now you went to school at Concordia. What did you study?

Jason Portnoy (02:11):

Uh, something very relevant to what I do now. Political science. So, uh, completely used this degree. Um, I always felt that after I got, I would hang it in my bathroom because didn't do much, but I thought I was gonna go to law school. So that was, that was the, that was the steps that I was gonna take. But didn't

Rabah Rahil (02:27):

Well, that kind of made sense though, right?

Jason Portnoy (02:29):


Rabah Rahil (02:29):

It it's interesting. There's uh, we've had a lot of PoliSci majors, um, which there is, there's some parallel to marketing and PoliSci, but, uh,

Jason Portnoy (02:38):

We all got lost after figur out what to do after we graduated. So we all ended up in marketing. That's probably how it all went.

Rabah Rahil (02:45):

That's amazing. So yeah. Build off of that. How did you get cut your teeth into marketing? How did you get into it?

Jason Portnoy (02:51):

Um, I always loved business and marketing, like, so those were all the electives I took in school. Um, those were the only classes I actually showed up to. Those were the only textbooks that I actually read, uh, just was always fascinated with how to grow a brand. And, and then I, I really, I really put into practice once I had my own, my first company. So I had a clothing brand, um, and then realized the power of marketing that way. And that was just something that just came natural to me.

Rabah Rahil (03:20):

Oh, that's cool. I didn't know you had a clothing brand. My, my assistant usually does a pretty deep dive on, uh she's she's gonna get the whip crack down her what's going on here? Tell me a little about, that's a hard one, man. That's a really hard, you got inventory risk. You got sizing, which makes my head explode like, oh, so why'd you pick that angle? That's a, that's a, I mean really difficult one.

Jason Portnoy (03:39):

We take on clients in the fashion space right now and they tell me about their problems and they're like, I don't think you'd understand. I'm like, no, no, I understand. And, and I'm, I'm like biting my tongue right now because like it's PTSD. I, I don't even want to talk about this. I just have flashbacks. Um, yeah, it's, it's tough game. Uh, in around 2009, uh, I had the idea to start a clothing company, a t-shirt company. Uh, I half askeded it, uh, for like three years, uh, while working part-time at another job. Uh halfassed it never really took off. And then at some point I was like, all right, you know what? I gotta give it a shot. I don't like working for other people. I know every entrepreneur says they're unemployable. Uh, but I'm employable. I just don't like authority. Um, and, and so I decided I was gonna go into full time, 2012.

Jason Portnoy (04:25):

I launched, uh, I had a Jula store in 2009. Um, that was what my e-commerce store was based off of what a giant mess and a headache. And then in around 2011, um, Harley who's a fellow Canadian, um, you know, yep. Came through with Shopify, uh, on one of, you know, he was when we were chatting, I'm like in 2011, if I open up a Shopify store, what does that make me? He goes an OG. I'm like, perfect. I'll take it. I want that on my record. So I opened up a Shopify store in 2011, but I mean, there wasn't really much to do around online marketing. I mean, there was stuff to do online, but Facebook ads, you know, wasn't really a big thing. Uh, everyone was talking SEO at the time. Uh, that was, that was like the big, the big driver. Um, I read crush it.

Jason Portnoy (05:13):

Gary was talking about Twitter, uh, like that, that was, that was how to, how to grow brand. Uh, and I just, I mean, I fell in love with, with influencer marketing. So I've just said, yeah, if the cool people could wear my stuff and I, there wasn't even a thing called influencer marketing. It just sounded like normal if cool people and cool and famous people wear your stuff, you should be able to grow a brand. And I focused a lot more on the wholesale side, the retail side. So we were in over 250 stores across north America and then, whoa, uh, I'll bring it full circle into, into the marketing play into how I got started marketing, but I became friends with the head of team, Gary V who's now, uh, V friends, uh, president Andy KAK. And he was like, Hey man, there

Rabah Rahil (05:55):


Jason Portnoy (05:55):

Go. He's like, Hey man, Gary's getting really deep on these Facebook ads things you should try for your clothing brand. And I'm like, all right, cool. Sounds good. Uh, can you teach me? And he's like, yeah, sure. We'll hop on a call. And then he introduced me to John Luer. I got put in the John Luer group. Yep. Um, and then just learned how to run Facebook ads and lost a lot of money. Um, yeah, just, just had no clue what I was doing. Just threw money at it, but then you start to like old school days where you could scrape audiences started to come up and you could start scraping audiences and you could literally put out a post. I, I put out a post with a picture of my, of, of a shirt that said share and like for a chance to win and you would get like 4,000 shares, like 10,000 likes you'd make, you'd make $10,000 in sales.

Jason Portnoy (06:39):

It was, it was like that easy. So that, that was Facebook aspect then, and then you'd boost it to, to your audience that you uploaded from a scrape list and you'd make even more money. Um, it was great. And, and I kind of fell in love with the, with the online marketing world. And that's kind of, you know, um, I, at the same time, hated every moment in the clothing world and people saw what I was doing and they asked me for advice and I'd meet with people and have a lot of free lunches and a free coffee and really spent more time helping other people and talking to them for free than I did growing my clothing brand. I'm like, all right. You know, I gotta figure something out. And that's when I launched the agency.

Rabah Rahil (07:15):

How cool, when did you kind of realize, like you needed to take the clothing brand behind the shed and kind of do what you needed to do to focus on your agency?

Jason Portnoy (07:25):

Um, it was a hard decision cuz the clothing brand was growing. It wasn't like we were having down years. Oh it wasn't like it was, it wasn't like it was down year after down year. It, there was growth every single year. I just saw where retail was going. We were predominantly getting big on retail. Um, you know, people ask me if I knew what I know now would I've stayed, stayed in it, knowing where her online went and the answer still. No, because I, my heart wasn't in and retail, they were, they were nickel and diamond. You like, everything was a disaster. Uh, buyers would sell outta your stuff, but not bring you back in because you were 50 cents more than, than the next guy. Uh, and it was literally down to the point where you were making nothing off of it. And I was just aggravated and it was my wife really to her credit that sit there and said, Hey, I, I asked you a question about the clothing business and, and you, like, you turn like silent.

Jason Portnoy (08:15):

Someone asked you a marketing question and for help and you just start chewing the error off for like, and, and chatting with them for six hours. So, uh, figure something out. And, and I wrote like a, that was like my most, you know, people talk about being authentic and putting out a post online and, and being vulnerable. That was my first vulnerable post I put out and I put it out. I didn't tell my friends and family, I was doing it, uh, that I was leaving and I was stopping it. I just, my wife knew and I wrote a whole post about, you know, you gotta, you gotta, you know, follow your happiness and happiness matters more than anything else in the world. And you know, for that reason why I'm stepping away, but I got a great, you know, next venture and that's, you know, helping other people build their brands.

Rabah Rahil (08:57):

I love that, man. Yeah. It's and it's even harder too, when it's, it's kind of your baby, your, your, your kind of, uh, you know, brainchild to, to kind of, and to your point too, when it's succeeding, it's even more hard. Uh, but sometimes the biggest decisions in your life are what you say no to not what you say yes to. And that's a, that's a really, that's a cool story, man.

Jason Portnoy (09:19):

And, and you raise, you raise a great point. I think I'm wired a little bit different. I don't think any of my businesses are my baby. Right. I hadn't, I never had emotional attachment. Everything people would ask me, you know, is true. Rivalry is that, is that, is that you see the, for like the growth there, that's going to be the business. I'm like probably not, but it's probably gonna be a stepping stone to what's next people ask me the agency, is that it, like, you're done. Like, this is the business. I'm like, it's gonna be a stepping stone to something else. Like I'm always open to where the possibilities take me. Um, and I'm not afraid. So like, there are people who stay in their businesses for way too long because of fear of like one it's succeeding. How do I walk away from this? Or, or two, what are, what are friends and family gonna think? And I think I stayed in my business a little bit longer for the, for the second reason of what, what our friends and family are gonna say. And I was so worried about what other people's opinion, what, what are they gonna say, oh, it must have failed. Oh, must have had a down year. Oh, he must have lost all of his money. And, and I, I heard that no matter what after, but at least I was prepared to hear it this time around,

Rabah Rahil (10:21):

Man. I love that. And the more, it sounds terrible, but the more unemotional you are about things, uh, the clearer, you can kind of mitigate some of those biases and make quite frankly better, long term decisions where, um, emotions can convolute a lot of things. They could be helpful in certain areas, um, to be kind of driving points. But at the same time, man, when you're emotional about decisions, it gets into a really wacky place. To your point, you start bringing in, um, you, you you're paying for things, um, use like, or the old saying is I can't pay my bills with your opinions. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so it's like exactly, you know, ultimately you have to do what's best for you and your family. And if that's not it, and it's not driving you towards those long-term goals, I love that. That's

Jason Portnoy (11:03):

Really, yeah. And there's, there's a great, there's a great book called winning through intimidation. And you know, in the beginning they talk about this thing called the theory of next. Why do most, why do most salespeople fails? Cuz they, every deal is more important is like too important, but no one deal could be more important than the other deal. You have to be able to roll with the punches where something bad happens, you say next and move on. And the, the faster you could get over that. And, and, and believe in the theory of next, the faster your, uh, your ability to succeed will be,

Rabah Rahil (11:34):

Ooh, I love that that's that's big brain moves. Yeah. When I, when I was running my agency, so I had a couple stints at an agency or uh, starting my agency. And, um, the biggest inflection point to success was kind of this theory of next of when I had the privilege and ability to say no, um, especially cuz I was running a small shop and so you can have, you know, one bad client can scuttle the whole shop. And so, uh, I like that the theory next, what was that book?

Jason Portnoy (11:59):

Uh, it's called winning through intimidation,

Rabah Rahil (12:02):

Winning through intimidation. What a title. That's a good title. Um,

Jason Portnoy (12:07):


Rabah Rahil (12:08):


Jason Portnoy (12:09):

By the way.

Rabah Rahil (12:10):

Oh it is. Yeah. What's the best and worst piece of advice you've ever received.

Jason Portnoy (12:19):

Um, I mean there's so much bad advice out there. Um,

Rabah Rahil (12:27):


Jason Portnoy (12:28):

I, I, I could, I can make a laundry list of, of, of the bad advice, the best advice. Uh, I don't know if it's necessarily the best advice, but when I started my clothing brand, I sat with Damon John and, and he told me like, I was like, I'm gonna build a billion dollar business and he didn't even laugh. He didn't smile. He didn't flinch. I'm like, maybe I'm naive, but like call it what it is, but I'm gonna build a billion dollar business. Obviously I felt way short of a billion dollars with the clothing brand. But um, I said I was gonna build a billion dollar business and he said, you know, don't call yourself naive. Um, don't make that mistake, hang on to that feeling as much as you can because every entrepreneur starts off with that dream and that naive feeling. And then what happens?

Jason Portnoy (13:10):

They get hit with a no and they get beat up and punched in the face and punched in the face and the rejection after rejection. And they lose that feeling and they become, they become like just, just they give up and, and don't have that like as much as you can that's I would say that's probably one of the best advice I've ever gotten because I, I still don't know how to bottle up that feeling. But whenever I get excited about a new project, that's the naive feeling that comes in. Um, you know, you probably, you probably seen that feeling with the startup with triple right now and, and seeing like the love and the passion and, and the runway that you guys are on. That's great. But in life, everything happens rejection. How can you hold onto that feeling and keep going, keep going, keep going and never lose sight of that. And I think, I think that's one of the major reasons, nine out of 10 businesses fail, cuz it got too hard and they lost that feeling. Um, and on the flip side, maybe the worst advice is, um, I mean <laugh> so, so much bad. I think I, I think a shitty piece of advice is follow your passion. I it's,

Jason Portnoy (14:16):

I, I think, I think passion's important passion. Isn't, doesn't put food on the table. Uh, you gotta, you gotta mix passion with the ability to generate revenue and profit and you gotta love what you're doing along the way. Um, but if you're starting a business, there's gonna be a lot of the business that you don't love. So if you're just looking for the passion part, you're gonna have a hard time,

Rabah Rahil (14:36):

Man. That is that's one of the best answers I've ever heard for that question. I think, uh, it's just so spot on. And there is just a certain aspect of like, if you looked at the businesses, like just percentage wise that succeed like no smart or even semi Smartt person would ever start a business because the, the odds are so against you. And so you do have to go into it with this, you know, a bit of delirium, a bit of, you know, uh, uh, there is the famous Steve jobs had this like, uh, reality distortion field where it's just like, you, you have to bend reality and then there's a certain aspect of you. You're almost faking it till you make it. And then if you can get to that bridge and cross that chasm, then you do make it. And it seems like it was always destined. So it's this kind of weird dichotomy of like, oh, this could never happen to like, oh man, it did happen. But, um, I love that. And I'm I'm with you on the passion piece too. I, I'm not a huge, uh, I, I, I think the way you put it's perfect where, you know, it's really important, but there's certain driving factors where if only, if you only rely on passion, it's gonna be really challenging to get you through those hard times where, um, you know, reality's gonna be, it's gonna hit you in the face

Jason Portnoy (15:49):

Times and you have to be, it fades, right? Like passion, passion goes away at some point and, and you gotta be able to still go through it.

Rabah Rahil (15:58):

Oh, I love that. It, that brings me to kind of a, that's such a good way to put it where, um, so there's a great guy named BJ fog and he does a lot of stuff about, um, behavior change. And, um, behavior happens when, uh, uh, a trigger, what is it? BMAP so motivation and action and a prompt or motivation ability and a prompt all exists simultaneously. So a really easy example is you have a phone call and somebody calls your phone. You. So that's the prompt. You hear the phone ring, you see the actual person it's Jason, oh, I wanna talk to Jason. And then you have the phone so you can actually answer the phone. So the behavior loop completes, but say, I get that call again, but I'm in the shower, but I know my wife's calling me and I wanna answer the phone for my wife.

Rabah Rahil (16:41):

I hear the phone ringing. I have the motivation, but I don't have the ability. And then the third, uh, variation is it's a telemarketer calling on me. I have my phone, I hear the prompt, but it's a telemarketer. So I don't have the motivation. The too long didn't read. There is out of those three levers that you can pull on. Motivation is the most fickle. And it's so contextual where I'll go to Tony Robbins or you go to some sort of conference or you're all pumped up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm gonna change the world. And the second you leave that environment or that context, you're, you're back to slanging burgers again. And you know, not like judging fast food people, you make your money, how you need to make your money, but you, you get the point, right? It's it's so fickle.

Jason Portnoy (17:15):

Yeah. I love that. You know, it's something Gary talked about. And I think, I think I, when I got the chance to interview him, I, I got to ask this. And, but I, I think it's really, everyone loves the feeling of motivation right there. There's a reason why self-help books. People go to Tony Robbins. People are like, and I'm not saying to anything wrong. I've been to Tony Robbins events love the guy. I think he's amazing. Um, but there's a reason why they go to the events and they come home and do nothing. It's the same reason. They attend conferences and come home and do nothing. It's cuz everyone likes the idea of being motivated, but no one actually likes to work and no one actually likes to execute. And, and I think that's, that's the hard part you could go in and listen to a million great ideas. And that's why everyone comes home with notes, filled with comp like, like they, they, they have their notebooks filled from a conference and then a year later I guarantee they probably never did anything with it because listening to something is a great idea and be like, yeah, that's a great way to grow my business. Oh shit. I actually gotta execute and go do it. Um, is a completely different thing.

Rabah Rahil (18:17):

Oh, I, I, so spot on man. So spot I had a track coach that would, uh, ask us, like, he wouldn't say, do you want to be a champion? He would say, do you wanna do the work that it takes to become a champion? That's that's there's there's good coach. You're so spot on. Yeah. Yeah. He was great, man. He was coach Davidson shout out. No, he was incredible. So you have a very high level of kind of marketing acumen, business acumen really well, well placed in the space. Did you use any like resources sounds like you got to rub up against some pretty, pretty big brains, but was there anything that you could kind of give to people, our listeners into how to gain some of that mastery that you have?

Jason Portnoy (18:57):

Um, I've invested a lot, a lot of money in my own skill and development. Yeah. Um, that's, that's, that's the, that's the honest truth. Um, you know, I'm, I'm pretty vocal about that. I think there are a lot of people who are afraid to invest money in a lot of things. I think the number one investment you could possibly make is in yourself, cuz that's the highest ROI. Um, too many people just throw it in a bunch of different courses and call it a day. But uh, I have a coach. I have, I have a business coach. I've done almost every single program and, and through the podcast I've seen almost every course out there, but I just continue. I, I love to learn and I love to read and I love staying up to date on things and, and figuring out different ways and, and learning.

Jason Portnoy (19:42):

And a lot of times is what I hear is, you know, when someone's saying, oh, everyone's going left. Then I try to see what happens if I go, if I, if I go right. Which was really wrong, like put with my hand gestures when I'm looking into the camera, uh, makes it look like, I don't know which way is left or right. But yeah, cool. I, I do know which way is left and right. Uh, but <laugh> um, but yeah, it, I, I really it's, it's a lot of, a lot of money spent and a lot of, and a lot of execution and making a, and making a ton of mistakes and, and, and, and, you know, in a time where everyone's really interested in talking about all their wins and everything that's going on, uh, man, I've, I've, I have way more losses than, than, than I do wins.

Jason Portnoy (20:27):

And I've made way, way, way more mistakes. And I could have a lot more money if I didn't spend at all on, on my own improvement. Uh, but there's a reason why every year that I spend more money on myself and my development and my skill, our business has a better year. Um, and, and I'm, I'm not blind to that. I, I clearly see there's a reason for that. Um, and I, and I, I need, I need to improve my weaknesses and learn and learn where I could be better and, and where I could get stronger. So, I mean, that's the answer to your question? How can people get that? They should just learn, invest in themselves and learn and, and, and, and do what they can. And I think experience is, is a very expensive teacher. Uh, a lot of people say, you gotta learn through experience. If I could hire someone who's done what I want to do, and they could show me the way I'm, I'm super happy to pay for that. I buy time every, every single day that's, that's the only thing I want. I'll pay for time. You know, someone will tell me, go do this. If I could find someone who's done it before, and I could pay them, you know, thousand dollars or a few thousand dollars to show me the way I'll do it.

Jason Portnoy (21:35):

And then that's, and then also to get to where, where you were trying to go with it is I've also had the luxury of picking the brains to some of the smartest people on the planet. Um, and my podcast was really, um, in a selfish way, not really designed for the listener, but if I'm gonna get, you know, some of somebody that I've, that I've been trying to like get into their office and pick their brain for, for an hour, uh, I'm gonna use that podcast to, to pick my brain, but I'll frame it in the, in, in the way of the listeners, cuz chances are, if I had that question, other people have that question.

Rabah Rahil (22:06):

Yeah. I love that. Yeah, same here. That's one of the reasons, uh, uh, I love doing a little podcast as well, where you get, it's like a non creepy way to break the ice with really, really smart people

Jason Portnoy (22:16):

Yourself go, go basically

Rabah Rahil (22:17):

Mentored by the way. Incredible podcast.

Jason Portnoy (22:19):

Thank go, go ask Gary, ER, Chuck for a half an hour of his time. Um, you know, to pick his brain, he'll say no, go ask him for an hour to interview him. You have a way better chance. So

Rabah Rahil (22:30):

Totally agree. Yeah. I love that, man. We flew through the main segment. I man, I'm gonna have to re-listen to this. This has been my, probably my favorite main segment so far. That

Jason Portnoy (22:38):

Was, I didn't know, we were drinking on this podcast

Rabah Rahil (22:40):

Problem after NAS bomb.

Jason Portnoy (22:40):

Next time I'm coming. I'm coming with a drink. I, I didn't, I didn't know we got the drink on this. So we got outta way more

Rabah Rahil (22:48):


Jason Portnoy (22:48):

If we started mixing alcohol into this,

Rabah Rahil (22:53):

The drunk pod that'll will mean you a partner on that. Love it,

Jason Portnoy (22:56):

Love alcohol pod, just random gibberish to, to a bunch of different people and watch the confused look on their face. Yeah, it's great.

Rabah Rahil (23:04):

It'll start off kind of on the, on the tracks. And then by the time time we get to the sign off and just be completely off the rails. Love it. Oh, I love it. Um, okay, cool. Let's get into the value add segment. Sure. This is why people bought the ticket. So can you go into a little bit of why you started your agency? How did you structure your agency? You have a really cool thing about pricing where you should never lower your price. Can you kind of talk some people through that?

Jason Portnoy (23:28):

Yeah. Uh, I think you could be the cheapest or the, or the most expensive, there's no benefit of being the cheapest and why I'll be one of the highest tiered pricing. I think at the same time, you have to have results in order to back up that price. So if you're just starting off doesn't mean you should go charge a hundred thousand dollars for a client. Uh, but I do believe that lowering your price is, uh, just leads towards a lot of bad things. Cuz one is most people lower the price to compete. And if you do that, it's a never ending game. You'll lower your price, all lower mine. Then you'll have to lower. Then I'll have to lower. Uh, which leads to just a bunch of really bad clients who you should not, not be working with in the first place coming in, uh, which makes it almost impossible to scale and grow.

Jason Portnoy (24:09):

So for those reasons you shouldn't lower your price. Um, I started the agency cuz like I said, I was just doing a lot of free consulting for people on how to grow their brands. Um, fell in love with it started. I was lucky, I guess I'll call it lucky cuz I don't know where it would've went if I didn't. But my first client that I took on, we went from $2,500 a month in sales to 300,000 and under 10 months all profitably. Um, and whoa. And if I didn't and if I didn't get that result and that client would've been a giant fail, I don't know if I would've had an agency. I don't know if that what, what would've happened. So, um, it turned out good. And then, and then I, uh, and then I leveraged that into the next client where we went from 90,000 to 280,000 and then it just became a matter of loving to scale brands and, and, and, and growing them.

Jason Portnoy (24:58):

Um, and then you just leverage that and it's been, it's been great. It's been word of mouth. I'm not looking to build a giant big agency. Um, my goal in the beginning was to create like a Vayner media, 800 people. And then I got to spend time in Vayner media and I got time to talk chat with Gary. And he's like, by no means, should you ever do that? Uh, that sounds like it's, it's a disaster. And he explained to me what, what the CEO of an 800 person agency does. And I'm like, man, that's awful. And he goes, yeah. Um, so, so that's, that's kind of how the agency was grown. And then I launched a coaching program for the people who couldn't afford the agency. Cause I love helping people. And that's kind of where my passion is right now, mostly on, on, on the coaching side. But, but yeah, the agency was just born because of, of like cool. If I'm giving all this free advice, why don't I charge charging for it? And then you start realizing if you have results and you have success, you could charge whatever you want. As long as the value is always there. And price is never the reason it's always the value exchange that that's, that's the problem.

Rabah Rahil (25:58):

Yeah. I totally agree with you on that. I always tell people that as well, where, um, very rarely, uh, if probably never is it pricing like there's definitely some times where like people just don't have the resources to afford you. That's a different conversation than the actual price when people say, no, that's too expensive. It's just because the, or for me anyways, another way that what they're telling you is I can't see how I'm gonna get the value for my money. So I'm just gonna tell you the throw away price, because that's, it's, it's this catchall excuse that people always, uh, you know, will stop pestering me. Well, it's too expensive where it's like, is it really, or it's be,

Jason Portnoy (26:31):

You use triple whale, right? If someone sits there and says, why am I paying $400 for this? Right? It's not that $400 is too expensive. Like if their language is very specific, why would I pay $400 plus for this? Well, clearly there's a value loss somewhere. You're not seeing the value to part with your money, cuz you part with your money for a lot of dumber shit than, than something that could actually grow your business. But I think that's, I think that's one of the biggest problems, right? Businesses don't see things as investments. They, they choose to cheap out on tools. They choose to cheap out on, on, on, on advice. They choose to cheap out on hiring the right talent. Um, and then they spend money on all the dumb stuff that, that, that doesn't make sense. Uh, but that's not how you grow a business and you have to look at an investment.

Jason Portnoy (27:16):

So, so yeah, maybe they can't afford you, but that's their problem, not yours, right? They're like, like that's so many agencies try to bow down to that and try to cater to that. If they can't afford you, I truly believe it's their problem and not in a bad way, but one is they either have to take that leap and make an investment and trust in someone that can help get them there because the only other option is they keep doing what they're doing and they're not. And what they're doing right now, isn't working. So that's kind of how you have to in my mind play it. So it, I, I don't think price is ever really a real objection.

Rabah Rahil (27:50):

I couldn't agree more. And I would actually offer you a third option is that maybe they aren't at the place where they can afford your flagship model. And so what's really smart with you is you can give them kind of a lower tier, not in deliverables, quote unquote, but just, you know, here's some asynchronous stuff that you can then consume. And then as you get to a run rate, that makes more sense to make this bigger investment. So that's why I like how you have that barbell model of your coaching as well as your, um, proper

Jason Portnoy (28:17):

Agency. I love hearing you say that, but, but the funny, the funny thing about the coaching program, yes. It's a lower tier Mo like price model, but like in terms of time, in terms of like what you get, I, I think it's just, I think it's priced, like I think value wise should be more than the agency, but it's funny how, like hearing you said, I, I, I always it's, I've never really looked at it as like, yes, it's a, it's a kind of a downsell, but at the same time, it's like really an upsell at the same time. But, but yes, I totally agree. You sh everyone should always have, um, some sort of way to, to hold onto lost leads. So whether that's a downs sell or whether that's, Hey, um, mark, you have a, you have an agency where you work with startups, right?

Jason Portnoy (28:59):

Cool. I get a lot of leads that may not be the right fit. How can we do something together? And maybe I send you the Le leads, but I think every business, whether it's eCommerce, uh, service, um, or, or an agency, uh, which is part of service, but if you're listening should find a way to monetize the leads that don't convert and, and there's, and there's always a way you should never just let people come in through your pipeline, have a 45 minute conversation with them and, and then send them on their way. There should always be a way to monetize them.

Rabah Rahil (29:27):

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um, I love that. What are the best parts and hardest parts of running your agency?

Jason Portnoy (29:35):

Um, the best part, I mean, I'm not gonna bullshit you and say watching all of our clients get amazing success and results and build their dreams. <laugh>, um, best part, best part. Uh, I mean, it's rewarding. Don't get me wrong, but best part of, of running an agency is same, best part of, of like being a business. Like any other thing. It's I get my time. I, I get to pick and choose my time. I get to, I get to choose my priorities. I get, I don't have to ask for permission. I don't have to do anything. Um, the worst part is, uh, the worst part is it's not, it's not that it's the worst part, but there's a lot of emotion that goes in dealing with people. And I, I dealt with it on the buyer side when, when I had a clothing brand, but in client services, people are a lot more emotional, um, and, and, and very different types. And what, what motivates someone to take action and hire you, or stay with you is very different than what motivates the next person. So it's playing all the, that human elements and then managing a team on top of it is, is a lot harder than, than most people, most people think.

Rabah Rahil (30:45):

Yeah, I was. Uh, so I came from running my own small agency to triple well. And, um, running a team is, is, is definitely not only harder, but it's just a different skillset than kind of an individual contributor where, uh, to your point, you're dealing with personalities, you're ensuring people have the right resources. There's just different value vectors. Um, when you're managing a team versus when you're kind of, you know, this individual contributor. So I think that's,

Jason Portnoy (31:10):

Which is, which is why I see, I see all these amazing media buyers and, and their next step in their mind is start an agency. Why would I work for someone else and do all this? The truth is I'll pay you a lot of money. If you're a really good media buyer to come, come work for me, um, you'll, you'll make, you'll make money. Would you make the same as if you own the client? Absolutely not, but you're not the one dealing with overhead. You're not the one dealing with a bunch of different stuff. The stress of a business, you know, you run the business, you, you, you, you eat, sleep and breathe. It you're a media buyer. You, you clock in and clock out when, when you work for someone, uh, you know, great, great talent don't, but for the most part. So I, I, I, it's kind of, it kind of hurts when I see people do that, that they feel like that's the next actual step when, um, you know, a lot of people I think would be better off emotionally, financially, mentally, physically, if they, if they went to go work for someone else than if they started their own thing,

Rabah Rahil (32:07):

Uh, uh, there's a great book called the emo that basically the too long didn't read is if you're a great baker that doesn't necessarily mean you should start a bakery, because there's just great to your point. There's just so many things that come along with it. And a lot of times you get away from the things that like you actually like doing where you're actually not like I'm a CMO now I haven't touched our paid media in a month. You know what I mean? Like, and that used to be like, I used to love that stuff. Yeah. Where I'm deploying paid media, I'm doing the creative, I'm doing all. I don't do any of that stuff. My day is all meetings and synthesizing decisions, strategy, politics, like, there's just, there's just so many different things to

Jason Portnoy (32:42):

One of the biggest lessons I've learned from, from, um, a family member who runs a business is I've watched, I've watched them grow. They built a multi, multi multimillion dollar business. And I've watched one of the biggest mistakes they've always done was take their top sales people and make them sales managers and your, and, and your best salesperson should probably not be your sales manager, cuz you're taking away their time from actually closing deals to going to train people and doing a lot of different things. You don't want your best talent doing that. You want them to be out there in the field, hunting, doing what they need to do versus like back in the shed, teaching people how to hunt. Um, and, and so I, I feel like that's the exact same thing.

Rabah Rahil (33:23):

That's perfect analogy. That's a perfect analogy. Um, where do you see the next two to three years of e-commerce unfolding? Especially kind of in like the DTC. Yeah. Shopify kind of, you know, one to $50 million run rate space. How do you see it unfolding?

Jason Portnoy (33:37):

Um, I, I think, I think you're going to see a little bit of a purge. Um, I think, I think we've had it easy for, for the last five years. Um, I think there's a, there's a lot more that goes into building a brand. I think too many people are relying on a platform to help them build a brand versus actually building a brand. And we saw what happens when you build a brand on a platform when iOS, uh, when the iOS changes came, we're clearly seeing that then email happens with iOS 15. It's just, that's just a start, right? We're, we're moving into that field. Um, you know, just, I think there's, there's a lot, you gotta learn how to build a brand. You gotta learn basic business and basic fundamentals. You have to understand profit margins. You have to understand, uh, finances. There's a lot that goes into building a brand than just, Hey cool.

Jason Portnoy (34:29):

I'm starting off. I'm gonna throw money on this platform. Um, cost of advertising is not gonna go down. It's gonna go up, which is gonna force a lot of people out of the game. Um, which sucks, but guess what, there are ways to grow brand without Facebook, without TikTok. It's just, it's an accelerant. Uh, and, but it's only an accelerant. If you actually have a good product or service, uh, otherwise it's an accelerant to your demise, right? You're, you're just the faster you're gonna fail. Um, so I, I think, I think a lot of, I think a lot of brands in for are, are in for a lot of hard work, uh, coming up and, and I like it. That's that's, those are the true businesses that, that get to thrive and, and, and go on. And the ones that could look at things from a macro, um, even when I was, when I was doing all the media buying, I've always thought of myself as a, as a really good media buyer, but there were way more technical people than me, uh, understood like a lot, a lot more from a technical side.

Jason Portnoy (35:26):

But I, I think I was able to generate results because I understood marketing at a high level, at a macro at a fundamental, the psychology behind it, things like that, that doesn't change. Right. David Ogilvy bring him in Eugene Schwartz, bring him in and give him these platforms. They'll laugh. Right. They'll they'll be like, cool. You mean, I could hit, I could hit 40 million people and I could target them. Like, that's crazy. Like they were just sent out letters. Right. So, um, so I think if you under, I think it's gonna be a move from, as the platforms become easier because really that's what it's becoming. Right. Take away interest, take away a lot of different things. It becomes button and pushing. So if you could develop great copywriting, if you could understand marketing psychology, man, you're a force to be reckoned with.

Rabah Rahil (36:10):

Yeah. I mean, that's, that's beautiful. That's I mean, that's my views exactly as well. It's I almost think of it kind of like a, um, creative destruction or when you have like controlled burns, where they're just making way for the new and the people that aren't fundamentally sound to your point or don't have the economics, or are just to your point, trying to grow off of a paid channel, it's gonna be tough going, man, it's gonna be tough going. But the people that do have the fundamentals do have the community do have the brand. Um, I think they're still gonna be around. I think they're actually gonna flourish because there's gonna be a consolidation of value within those and the people that are kind of in that no mans land are just gonna, gonna die off cause it's gonna be, it's gonna be challenging.

Jason Portnoy (36:51):

And, and I see, I see it, the same thing in the agency space. I think you're gonna see a lot of agencies follow up because they don't have the ability to educate, uh, uh, to educate. And we see it right now with our clients. Um, most of our time spent in education than it is. And it used to be like three years ago. Oh, here's your RO as here was your spend. Cool. We're happy. Everyone's making money. Call it a day. Let meeting, meeting adjourned. And now it's education. Now it's like going, okay, well, this isn't what it used to be, but here's what we're getting. Here's where we're moving towards. Mer becomes a play and CPA becomes a play. A Mer, all these things become, become numbers. That first of all, I've been talking about for a long time, cuz that's actually measure a brand, but that's now slowly.

Jason Portnoy (37:32):

People are starting to understand that. And if you can educate your client past it, so you get hired, they use the perfect example. I hire you to run Facebook ads. If you're only gonna show me your in platform stuff and that's it and not be able to point me in the right direction for, for even ideas, for email, how it could be integrated and you, you can't become a strategist to them because you're sitting there saying I'm just a Facebook marketer. You are going to be out of business. I promise like you're like brands are not gonna be able to do that. Cuz all you're gonna show them, is this and be like, well we think it's leading towards other stuff because look at your revenue. But if you can't tie it all in, like now we spend more <laugh> we spend time across platform and we're hired to just do one component and we spend more time and they're like our Google guy doesn't do this.

Jason Portnoy (38:12):

I'm like, well we should be your Google guys then because we do this too. Yes. Um, so just that's, that's a great, that's a great segue. But um, if you don't know how to, if you don't have the deeper understanding of marketing fundamentals and how to grow, and you're not a growth strategist in every single agency or every single agency owner, uh, or if your freelancer should become a growth strategist, how to profitably grow a business, if you can't become that. And you're just one dimensional, look what happened to SEO agencies and that's the exact same thing that's gonna happen to you.

Rabah Rahil (38:43):

Ooh, Ooh. That's heat. My friend that's heat. I love that. The, the SEO agency. That's a great play there. Um, okay. One last question then we'll get into the rapid fire. Um, what's one thing people in the e-commerce community aren't talking about and should be,

Jason Portnoy (38:59):

Um, everything we just talked about like that, that, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean everything, everything we just said, they're not talking about it. I think everyone's still talking about latest trans latest hacks, latest strategies meant build the foundations, understand the foundations of your store, stop looking at what the new TikTok trend is and how do I get all on that? How do I diversify? I think a lot of people are trying to diversify without, without the tools in order to diversify and diversifying is actually gonna hurt them. Um, you know, just if you're complaining that Facebook broke your business, look inwards and figure out what you could do to be resistant to those type of things. And, and I feel bad cuz there are some businesses that just had to, but like, like I I'm, I'm a tough love person and, and, and it comes with a lot.

Jason Portnoy (39:48):

I love business owners and I love entrepreneurs and I love seeing this, but there's a lot of the blind leading the blind out there on social media and a lot of bad advice and a lot of comparisons and a lot of people looking at seemingly bigger people and being like, okay, this is what they're doing. I should do it without the context of what's actually going on in that person's life what's going on in that brand. What's going on. They don't have the context. They're just seeing 140 characters and trying to make a decision off of it. Um, and, and using that as their decision versus like, Hey, let me just put my head down and actually build my business,

Rabah Rahil (40:23):

Man. You are coming with it, baby. I love it. Bringing it for our year. Not your row as listeners. Fantastic. You've made it to the rapid fire. Jason, are you ready for this? I'm ready. I love you. One of my favorite Canadians, but I gotta do it to you. Okay. Here we go. Uh, podcasting, overrated, underrated,

Jason Portnoy (40:40):


Rabah Rahil (40:42):

Love it.

Jason Portnoy (40:44):

I could expand. Or, or do you just want one word answer?

Rabah Rahil (40:47):

Yeah, yeah.

Jason Portnoy (40:48):


Rabah Rahil (40:49):

Under, so I'm a witness in your

Jason Portnoy (40:50):

World. UN underrated as a, as a marketing channel. Um, underrated as a marketing channel overrated in the sense that everyone thinks it's so easy to do, but there's a reason why most people don't get past eight episodes. Um, so I, I think, I think everyone thinks they should be doing it, but it's fucking hard to do. And it there's a lot of work that needs to be done and uh, where you you're better off using other times. So overrated in that sense, underrated in the sense of, of a, what it could do as a authority and, and, uh, Lee gen for you

Rabah Rahil (41:22):

Chefs kiss, that's such a perfect answer. Running an agency, overrated, underrated,

Jason Portnoy (41:28):

Uh, uh, overrated, overrated. I think, I think like I said, people should. I mean, I mean, I think you're gonna see a lot of, I think you're gonna see a lot of agencies going through a very, very tough time going on right now. I think it's gonna get a lot harder. It was very easy when you could take your screenshots and post it up there and get clients with your eight X return. Um, but, but now when you, when you're gonna actually have to prove that, you know, marketing and you're and, and you understand growth and how to grow business and you could actually advise them. That's great. I think you're also dealing with a lot of people who are graduating in marketing right now. When I graduated in marketing, it was, uh, data entry. Those were the jobs that you would get. You'd when I, when I applied for marketing jobs, it was like, cool. Do you know how to use Excel? I'm like, no, but what does that have to do with marketing? And they'd be like, well, you're gonna enter the data and I'm like, that's not marketing, but, um, and now you're getting people graduating who understand social media, who are understanding a lot of these things. Um, and you're gonna have that play of, should we bring this growth strategist in house, um, so that we can understand what's going on and learn how to hold an agency accountable before we do anything else,

Rabah Rahil (42:36):

Brilliant Montreal, overrated or underrated,

Jason Portnoy (42:40):

Huh? Overrated. Get me outta here. Get me to get me to warm weather, get me, get, get me, get me out of, I mean, I mean, yeah, so socialist systems. I, I, I don't my pissed people off here, but socialist systems don't work for me. I'm, I'm, I'm a capitalist that I, I like, I like, I like, you know, I like growing businesses. I like, I like seeing people, um, you know, earn, earn what they get and, and, and whatnot. And, uh, and yeah, no, uh, if it wasn't for my family, if it wasn't for my family, it would not be in Montreal, but an amazing hockey team, the best hockey team, uh, in the world, I'm a, I'm a die. There we go. I'm a diehard fan. Um, there's a lot of love about the city, but as a business owner, man, it stinks.

Rabah Rahil (43:25):

Yeah. It's challenging. You guys have a very unique tax structure and uh, we'll, we'll leave it at that. <laugh> um, we already talked about this, but why, why not jump into it again, lowering your price, overrated, underrated,

Jason Portnoy (43:37):

Uh, worst thing you could possibly do. I mean, the only way, the only way you should lower your price is if it's incentivized. So the only way we lower our price as an agency or give a discount is based off length of contract or cash upfront. So if we're gonna sign up for three, that's a really, if you're gonna sign up for three months and you don't want to pay, let's say, I'm just making this number up $10,000, which is 30,000 cool. We'll take 25,000, but you pay upfront and you, and you sign for the 90 days, or if they signed for a year shorter contract, but year long contract with 90 day out clauses are three month contract. So don't, don't pretend that's a long-term contract. So it's um, so if you're gonna do a long-term contract part cash up front, those are the only ways I would lower my price.

Rabah Rahil (44:23):

That's a really good caveat. I forgot about that. That's a really, I'm glad you said that. Um, NFTs, overrated, underrated,

Jason Portnoy (44:31):

Uh, overrated and underrated, underrated. I think it is the future overrated. Most of them are gonna go to zero and a lot of people are gonna lose a lot of money.

Rabah Rahil (44:41):

My view we're, we're like brother from another mother. That's exactly how I feel. Um, entrepreneurship, overrated, underrated,

Jason Portnoy (44:47):

Underrated, um, underrated, but highly romanticized underrated. I think it's, I think it's one. I think it's one of the, one of the greatest things to be, I think the ability to produce revenue at a thin air for people, the, uh, the ability to create jobs, the ability to get, uh, to help people, you know, achieve their dreams is something truly, truly, truly amazing and live life on your own terms, uh, is just, there's something fascinating about that. It's romanticized in the sense that, I mean, everyone looks at it and thinks it's like a rockstar. It's also one of the most loneliest journeys anyone could ever take. Uh, the, the lows are very, very low and I mean, uh, Gary says it all the time. It actually has one of the highest suicide rates out of any industry. And it's for that reason people. Yeah. You know, people think it's easy and they see everyone else.

Jason Portnoy (45:34):

And like I said, comparison's poison, right. You watch people on social media and you think you could do it. You watch shark tank and you think you could go do it. And then when you hit with no after no after no after no, the rejection really weighs on you. And it's, I mean, I don't sleep well. Right. Like I, I, I sleep well, but I need to fall asleep with the TV on because my brain doesn't stop. I'm I'm I, I can't meditate cuz I can't sit still. My mind always goes if, I mean, if you're, if you wanna be a business owner and you wanna take on that stress and everything like that, it's an amazing, it's an amazing, amazing journey. But, but make no mistake. It's it's it's hard.

Rabah Rahil (46:09):

Yeah. So, well put favorite meal and why,

Jason Portnoy (46:13):

Uh, sushi or pizza. I could, I could live off those two all day and, and, and I think with the shape that you see me in right now, my physical shape right now, <laugh> I think, I think, I think you could tell, uh, that, that I'm, I'm trying my best to do it, to live off, to live off those two. Um, but yeah,

Rabah Rahil (46:33):

I like it. We good. We'll when you come out here, we'll do some nice, there's some nice sushi joints here. Um, in town, we'll take you out. We'll put you up when you come speak. Um, your favorite or I guess not favorite cuz it's like picking favorite child, but um, your most memorable podcast guest,

Jason Portnoy (46:49):

Uh, Gary, Gary, I mean, Gary's the reason I started the podcast. Gary's the reason why every single bigger name after me, after him came on the podcast, um, there's a lot of amazing, amazing things. But I think that episode aside from just like paving the way and why I started the podcast was the first podcast where if you listen to episodes before that they were awful, man. I was like reading questions off of a paper. I didn't listen to what anyone was answering. I didn't know how to Gary. I zoned out like my videographer came with me to film. It was like, dude, you like, we did a podcast right before that with Brandon Steiner. And he was like, that's good. Gotta you gotta bring a little bit of, of more heat with Gary though. And I was like, all right. And I was thinking about, I was, he's like, dude, you like zoned out.

Jason Portnoy (47:36):

And it's true. I, I do not even remember the conversation until after I, I had to watch it back, uh, because I was like in, in some weird trance or zone. Um, but it it's, it's a confidence play. You could sit with anyone across the table, no matter how big they are. And, and now you kind of have the same, you're elevated a little bit. So Gary's the first one that allowed me to really like, just be like, oh shit. Like I could, I could do this. I, I, I could hang, I could hang with the best in this space.

Rabah Rahil (48:09):

Shout out Gary V amazing, uh, favorite place travel to and why?

Jason Portnoy (48:14):

Uh, don't been there once, but I would love to go back to Hawaii. Absolutely love Hawaii. It was my honeymoon. Mm-hmm <affirmative> um, yeah, an amazing, like just which island? Uh, we went to Maui, um, just, yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. I mean amazingly nice people. Uh, awesome culture. Just beautiful weather. I mean, what, what's not to love about it. So if you're asking me to play favorite place to travel on vacation, that's that's, that's the, that's the one.

Rabah Rahil (48:45):

Yeah, definitely the, the wallet doesn't like it so much. I, I did it stint out in Hawaii as well, and it lived up to being beautiful, but damn it's expensive.

Jason Portnoy (48:54):

<laugh> our wedding, our wedding money was, uh, was, was not the same as it was when, when after that Hawaii trip. Yeah. We came back and I was like,

Rabah Rahil (49:02):

Yeah. Um, <laugh> favorite follow on Twitter.

Jason Portnoy (49:07):


Rabah Rahil (49:10):

Aw, look at

Jason Portnoy (49:11):

That. I wouldn't be on this. You, how could I, how could I like sit on your podcast, chat with you and say anything. Otherwise, even if I'm completely 100% bullshitting, how could I not say that?

Rabah Rahil (49:23):

<laugh> Hey, I'll take it. I'll I'll take the shameless plugs. Um, okay. Last question for the rapid fire and you're almost done. You could have dinner with three people dead or alive fiction or a non-fictional you're at a four person table. You're sitting at the head. You get to invite three people. Who are they?

Jason Portnoy (49:41):

Um, Ooh, that's a good question. Uh, it's not really a rapid fire question cause I gotta think these are the questions by the way, while I'll answer and then I'll be, then I'll be upstairs in the shower and I'll be like, no, no, no, it's this person. It's this person. Uh, yeah. Uh, I'd probably pick, uh, like a grandparent, like a great, great grandparent. I would love to hear like what they went through. Okay. Cause story, I think history and stories are super, super important. I would, I would love to just, just know which grandparent, I mean, you're asking me like, choose that I'm not gonna publicly, uh, pick a grandparent cuz that's how you get in trouble with the family. So, uh, a grandparent <laugh> um, and just, just to hear their story. Okay. Um, I'd probably whew man. Such good one. I, I mean, wow. Um, I take, oh fuck. I mean, you have me Stu

Rabah Rahil (50:49):

Fires of living up to its

Jason Portnoy (50:50):

Name. I'm never, I'm never stumped on these. Uh, you know, and, and these are like the ones people always have in their back pocket, like George Washington and you know, <laugh>, don't have Kennedy in Jesus <laugh> um,

Rabah Rahil (51:02):

<laugh> uh,

Jason Portnoy (51:04):

You know, like I don't, uh, uh, I I'd probably pick, uh, I would pick like from a business side, from a marketing side, maybe David Ogelvie so I could pick his brain about copy. Talk about, copy and talk about, talk about a lot of different stuff that way. He's he's one of, he's one of my favorites. Um, and then, and then I would probably pick like some, some biblical figure and I, I, I I'd pro yeah. You know, who's who who's probably rad to, to meet, like, not like Abraham was cool Moses, like, um, but like Noah man, like that's like, like that's, I'd love to just jam with like really you sat on a boat with all those animals. Like, like just walk me through that. Yeah. How do you build that boat? Like what's going on? Like, like, I think that's probably like most underrated story in, in all of it. Um, you know, or, or Adam, and just be like, why'd you let you eat that apple, like, like what was going through your mind, but <laugh> but no, Noah, Noah's a fascinating one. I, I would love to just chat with him because that's work ethic, man. Like, and, and that's work ethic and faith, oh, I'm gonna build this giant boat. I'm gonna go find all these animals. And those are animals that would probably eat you alive if you ever tried to like touch them. Right. So, yep. I I'd just love to know. So walk me through it. Like how'd you do it, David Ovy love that conversation. He

Rabah Rahil (52:32):

Came out on the other side. Exactly. You got Ovy and then you got the great grandpa. That's amazing. See you ended up getting it. Yeah. It's beautiful. Beautiful.

Jason Portnoy (52:41):

Took me a while to get there, but

Rabah Rahil (52:43):

I got Jason said gem. Ah, Hey, all is, well, that ends well, you're such a gem. Tell people how to follow you. Tell people about your agency. How can they get more involved? How can they get on your coaching calls? Let the people know this time is yours.

Jason Portnoy (52:55):

Yeah. Um, all over social media at Jason Porto, my website's J portnoy.com, uh, J RT, noi.com. And on there, you have all the different ways we could possibly work together and, and, and jam out. And, um, and yeah, super accessible on, on every one of those platforms.

Rabah Rahil (53:14):

And don't forget the podcast.

Jason Portnoy (53:16):

What are you doing? And what are doing it's it's on there also, right? So you'll, you'll find the two, but the podcast are perfectly mentored. Um, and yeah, it's, it's a good one.

Rabah Rahil (53:24):

You tune into it. It's it's just absolute muscle list and people go smash that subscribe button. Jason, thanks so much for stopping in. If you do wanna get more involved with triple whale, it's tri triple well.com. We're on the bird app at triple whale, and then I'd be remiss not to let you know that we have a fantastic newsletter that goes out every Tuesday, Thursday called whale mail. You can subscribe right on our Twitter app, plural profile page. I can get that. Look. The drinks are getting to me, Jason. And I told you to go off the rails a little bit. We're gonna have to have this chat about this podcast. Just coffee, about that drinking podcast. Oh dude. I'm in, we got a hundred percent in. Yeah. Oh, it'd be super fun. You're super fun. Uh, dude. Thank you so much. You were, you were just massively impressive, incredible eloquent, thoughtful responses. You're the man go. Subscriber podcast. Go hire his agency. Um, that's 32 in the books. Folks. Thanks again, Jason, for stopping by. And then when you come out to Austin sushi on me, we'll do it. Big brother. Appreciate it, brother. All right. We'll see everyone on the flip. Thanks again.

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