How To PROPERLY Increase Customer Retention W/ Gina Perrelli

December 1, 2022


Hosted By

Rabah Rahil
CMO at Triple Whale
Ash Melwani
Co-Founder & CMO of MyObvi


Gina Perrelli
Co-founder of @lunarsolargroup & @Retextion

Episode Description

In this episode, we go over how to best retain customers with Gina Perrelli #Adspend

Notes & Links

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Follow the people featured in this episode here:

- Rabah's Twitter: https://twitter.com/rabahrahil
- Ash's Twitter: https://twitter.com/ashvinmelwani
- Gina's Twitter: https://twitter.com/EmailLikeAGi


Gina Perrelli (00:00):

I think the basics are really important. Um, having a solid, like one popup strategy, um, having solid welcome flow, abandoned cart, post purchase, like that is like your key flows. Those have to be solid before you start to get crazy. Um, I think like one of the biggest mistakes they see is I'll see like new brands come out and we'll be like, we want a different post purchase flow for every different product that you've got. It's like, let's come down <laugh> and let's get the basics down. Like let's like test some cadences, like kind of, let's see, like let's build more generic things before we really get too sophisticated here.

Rabah Rahil (00:36):

Back with your favorite DTC podcast with my partner in crime, Ash Melani as always, and we're joined, I believe this is actually our, uh, first female on the show, which, uh, is absolute horrible on our part. But not only that, she's an absolute crusher. We met a couple times at geek out and then most recently, um, it was just such a blast. You're just such an awesome person. You came to the, uh, New York road show, uh, Gina, Pelli the retention queen. We're gonna be talking all things, subscription, email, SMS, and then Ash is gonna tell us how he's kind of leveraging that with Avi, but Gina, for people that don't know kind of what you do about your business, um, give people kind of little elevator pitch.

Gina Perrelli (01:20):

Yeah. Um, so two things, um, one of the co-founders of lunar solar group, which is a digital agency, I oversee everything retention there. So email, SMS, loyalty rewards, referral, subscription programs, all of that fun stuff. So last 11 years building out retention programs. And then more recently in the last year launched a subscription app, um, called protection. So CEO and founder of that very, very excited. Um, first like big DC tech company push for me the agency bootstrap. But yeah, that's what we got going on.

Rabah Rahil (01:50):

Oh my gosh. Double dipping. I love it. And if you guys don't know, uh, I was jealous of Gina. She has a fantastic Instagram. She should definitely follow her. What's your handle there?

Gina Perrelli (02:01):

Gina. Pelli

Rabah Rahil (02:01):

Beautiful. Easy peasy, easy. Um, but you went to an incredible resort recently, right? Super bogey. I

Gina Perrelli (02:08):


Rabah Rahil (02:09):

Was it ma or how

Gina Perrelli (02:10):

Do you pronounce it? Almond Gary <laugh> almond. Gary it's

Rabah Rahil (02:14):


Gina Perrelli (02:14):

Soy bougie. That's I think why my, uh, why my Instagram probably private cuz I do. I do like a couple bougie things that yeah, we went to. Um, and Gary, it was, it was awesome. It, I highly recommend it putting it on snow next snow, the bucket list. It was just the views and everything. I, I do as much as I love New York city. I love to spend a lot of time in nature. So it was nice just to be there out on the mountains and get a couple hikes and just some of the coolest the lake landscapes I've ever seen.

Rabah Rahil (02:40):

Yeah. And it's, it was like as high level as you get in terms of luxury, but you're out in like just the middle of the desert. It's so interesting. It's such a cool dichotomy.

Gina Perrelli (02:49):

It is one of the most, um, expensive places I've ever been. There was a cockroach in my bath.

Rabah Rahil (02:56):


Gina Perrelli (02:58):

Cause you're in the, and they were like, you're in the desert. Like the first day we got there, there was a huge spider on the ceiling and I was like, someone needs to deal with this. And they were like, we have a team for that, but honey, you're in the desert.

Rabah Rahil (03:07):

Unbelievable. I love it. Not, not a great retention play there. You gotta deal with the spiders. I'm not a big spider on the myself either, but um, Ash, what's going on in your universe? How you doing over there?

Ash Melwani (03:18):

Yeah. All good man. Um, fun fact. Me and Gina grew up in the same town, um, about a couple streets away, but never actually met until geek out.

Rabah Rahil (03:27):

Really figure I figure London. Boy,

Ash Melwani (03:30):

I went to school in London, but I did grow up in, in Wayne, New Jersey, um, down the road from Gina,

Gina Perrelli (03:38):

Like same neighborhood. Like we could have biked to each other's houses. Yeah.

Rabah Rahil (03:41):

Seriously stranger things style. How interesting.

Gina Perrelli (03:43):

Yeah, really. That could have been

Ash Melwani (03:45):

Us. I think our brothers actually know each other, which is really cool, but we didn't actually meet, um, until, I mean we, like, we talked to each other on Twitter and then we finally bang geek out, which was awesome. Um, but yeah. Um, yeah, not much going on over here, you know, summertime, um, typically a little bit of a slower time for, for the most. Yeah. Uh, so we're kind of, you know, kind of kicking back and, and focusing on the things that we can focus on, which is customer retention. Amazing. You know, we're, we're doing a pretty big push and rebuild right now with, you know, our, our entire email marketing and, and subscriptions too. Um, you know, shout out to protection. We're, we're about to move over to them and, and I think it's gonna be, you know, absolutely insane. Um, but right now, you know, I think as the summer, you know, summertime kind of approaches, we're seeing our CAC increase, uh, just a little bit.

Ash Melwani (04:39):

And the only way to really, you know, kind of account for this is bring back budgets or focus heavily on the retention aspect of things. So what we're trying to do right now is make sure that, you know, everybody that is coming to the website technically is a little bit more expensive, right? We're paying a little bit more for that traffic. Um, making sure that we're able to acquire some type of, you know, email or phone number, uh, to, to pretty much push them down. You know, these, these flow that, that were rebuilding out. Um, I tweeted out the other day, you know, our, our people, you know, acquiring leads on their main landing pages and, and it was one thing where I've kind of went back and forth on where mm-hmm, <affirmative>, you know, you have this landing page where you're trying to funnel somebody down to literally make a purchase.

Ash Melwani (05:26):

Right. Um, you know, everybody talks about removing friction points and, and I've always noticed or heard or other people saying like, you know, get rid of your popups. Don't, don't have to chat, don't have too much going on, just so that you can just focus on just making that sale. Um, but then the other side of that is, well, what if you can just grab somebody's number? What if you can just grab somebody's email, um, you know, maybe the conversion rate will take a little bit of a hit, but now you have a list of people that you can literally funnel down, um, you know, know through email or, or an SMS flow. So Gina, what are your, what are your thoughts on that? What are your thoughts on, you know, making sure, uh, brands are, you know, acquiring, you know, warm leads and, and what's the best way to kind of nurture them and, and fit it into this whole ecosystem of, you know, acquisition.

Gina Perrelli (06:13):

Yeah. I mean, I'm a huge, huge believer in like the teaser for popup. So you don't have to do like a full screen takeover. And I also like, especially on mobile, you should always just a fly out. It should only be the bottom part of the page. Just be really easy to swipe down. But even if you don't want that to ever actually like pop up and come to be those little like tabs that sit on the side of your screen, that's like say 50% where they click on it and it opens up the like popup or fly out model, um, where you can collect their email. Like that is like an absolute must. So even if somebody never wants to use it, they can scroll through their page. It's not gonna create any extra friction points. So like, I think definitely start there. Um, huge thing that we've been doing across brands is just been like AB testing that functionality, like you just switched the different offers.

Gina Perrelli (06:53):

I think like having a tab that just says, like, it's like two things, like save 15%, like that typically always wins whatever, like the save and the discount amount. Like don't try to be cheeky in that teaser copy. That's like not where to be clever like that people don't wanna surprise in that they wanna like, just see a direct action when open up the full flyout, then you can be like a little cheeky, little branded to get people's like phone number or email, but I think you should always at least have a teaser on the page.

Ash Melwani (07:21):

Uh, super interesting. Um, are you seeing more brands leaning more towards like collecting phone numbers? More email, both. Like, I know we, I know we do both, um, like we we'll try and get the phone number first and then email, but what, what are you guys seeing? And what's like, what's best practice.

Gina Perrelli (07:40):


Gina Perrelli (07:42):

Very dependent on the brand and the age of the customer. If you like, you know, like if you're selling maybe like dog food and we have like this one brand that I'm thinking of in particular where there are certain trends that like, if I probably did them, um, like with a, they would absolutely hit when I do them with that brand. They absolutely do not. So you have to be aware, like, does your, where does your customer base actually wanna talk to you? Are they an SMS? Are they an email people? But a lot of the younger brands SMS is great. It's very direct. Um, but like SMS will convert higher, but if you need a lot of education, then it's email for you guys. Like you have a massive products catalog. I think it depends on the page that people are landing on. If we like are trying to fill out somebody's entire suite of like, here, like go really high, like AOB, like here's all the different a products that you can use in a day. And like, there's like seven different things, really hard to communicate that via text. So like, then I would like that like landing page that should focus on email. But if you were like, Hey, we've got this hero product, like its summer, we're gonna push the burn product. We know this is gonna crash. Like, we just want us to like, do this. Then I would say, let's do SMS.

Rabah Rahil (08:45):

That's interesting. I always having a love hate with SMS in terms of, cause when it has a bit more spicy unit economics than email does, right. And then especially if you're sending media or an emoji or something, it turns into an SMS and like it starts to become a little bit of a line item. Whereas email is a little bit more economical. Um, but I also feel and correct me if I'm wrong. Cause you sit across all these other brands, but there's a lower ceiling on the frequency. Like cuz you're, it's such an intimate medium where it's like, people kind of like, obviously you don't wanna blow up people's emails, but there's a little bit of a more kind of grace. Oh, absolutely. Of like absolutely sending like oversend emails where it's like, if I get two text messages that I don't want from that brand, I'm instantly unsubscribing. Like it's like no brainer. We're, I'll take four to six, maybe even eight emails cuz it's just, I'm consuming it in a much different way where this is like, it's really intrusive to me. Do you see that across your brands? Or like what are your thoughts there?

Gina Perrelli (09:45):

Yeah. Um, I think when SMS kind of first, first became hot, we all started using it. Uh, it was very similar usage to email. Like people were like always sending an image. They felt like they had to do this. They were like writing these long paragraphs where it was like multiple different things. And then yeah, so they were point, it was racking up the bill where all of a sudden it was not one SMS. Like it was taking like three SMS or like ANMs to get that message across. Um, we, over the last year I think have realized and a lot of the brands have put out case studies, we've put out case studies about it. Um, that like short and sweet into the point. People don't want a block paragraph of text. Like think about when you open up your phone, if one of your friends texts you a block, like of para like a paragraph, you're like, oh no. Yeah. Like something it's like triggering to see that

Rabah Rahil (10:29):

Something's wrong. Yeah,

Gina Perrelli (10:30):

Exactly. Where like, you're like, oh this is like not how I communicate on this platform. Um, where the short sweet ones like, yeah, like if you text like in your, a witty brand and it's funny, you, I think you can get away with like once a week, um, where people need to be careful is like the welcome flows. They think the same way they do an email where like you can get away with three emails, like in three days in a email welcome series. That is not the case on SMS. If somebody hasn't bought from you, they haven't clicked through, they don't wanna hear from you every single day for multiple days when they first sign up.

Rabah Rahil (10:59):

That's really interesting. So kind of taking it back to, I guess the basics, if you will, what does a proper retention or like what are the fundamentals of a retention program for you? You mentioned loyalty, you mentioned welcome flows. Just kind of, where's your head out there? Like if I'm starting a, from scratch and I finally got some product market fit and I sold some stuff and now I know, Hey, I have customers now, how do I retain them? Get more money out of them. Get people into to Ashe's point. Oh, maybe I'm collecting emails now. So I want to drip off those people. How what's your thought process there?

Gina Perrelli (11:34):

Yeah, I think the basics are really important. Um, having a solid, like one popup strategy, um, having solid welcome flow, abandoned cart, post purchase, like that is like your key flows. Those have to be solid before you start to get crazy. Um, I think like one of the biggest mistakes they see is I'll see like new brands come out and they'll be like, we want a different post purchase flow for every different product that you buy. And it's like, let's come down <laugh> and let's get the basics down. Like let's like test some cadences, like kind of let's see, like let's build more generic things before we really get too sophisticated here. Um, but yeah, like I think the best places to start are welcome abandoned cart, post purchase, um, and definitely have a good popup.

Ash Melwani (12:12):

So to your point, right on the post purchase stuff, um, I know a lot of brands will either have like that one product funnel to kind of introduce people into the ecosystem. Right. Um, and I think that post purchase funnel would make sense that it's like a little bit more generic. You know, you kind of have a theme that you're going with. Right. So for us, um, and maybe a few other brands, like we, we have a couple products at the top of the funnel just because we have two types of customers. Right. We have one that's coming in for, for weight loss and then another customer that's coming in for, uh, more beauty, right. Hair, skin, nails, you know, overall wellness. Right. Does it make sense to still remain general or do you kind of like, these are two entirely different people with two entirely different mindsets doesn't make sense to now split those people off

Gina Perrelli (13:03):

Once you have the baselines now. Yes. So like, and that is where like I love the conditional blocks. I know that we've talked about that a bit. If you, if you'd never use Clavio, conditional blocks, absolutely Google that, um, check them out. But basically you can insert different blocks based on what somebody had in their cart. Um, I think where people, a lot of times, like the first way that I'll see it is like if somebody has this in their cart versus, or if somebody checked out with this, if somebody checked out with that, they're not thinking about what if somebody bought both? Like what does that customer experience like all of sudden, like the different flows where it's like, if you got this, if you got that, like when you do the, um, like the conditional splits, that's where all the sending in crazy, cuz like it's not just the perfect customer of everybody comes in and buys one product. Um, but yeah, like speaking to the product benefits, I think that's where like doing some type of segmentation within the email, like the conditional blocks again, um, is huge. Cuz like we don't need to fully educate everyone on every single product if they didn't buy it.

Ash Melwani (13:55):

Right. Do you see a, like a pretty big lift just from really segmenting these things out?

Gina Perrelli (14:04):

Um, so yes and no, I've seen a huge lift. Like I think it goes both ways and it has to be done smart. Like I always say like smart segmentation, like segmentation when it matters and it makes a difference. Um, a lot of the times what happens is people try to go too heavy on the segmenting. They're not actually thinking about all these different like edge cases and like what actually happens. We go into an account, we clean it up. We clear out hundreds of just like crazy spider webs of emails. We streamline it. And they're like, no, it's so much more like it, we don't have doing as much personalization. I'm like you're doing 20% more revenue because people are getting the like at least emails at the right times now.

Ash Melwani (14:42):

Yeah. That's so speaking of like percentages, like, are you seeing a, like what what's like the ideal percentage of like email revenue that brand should be kind of like Amy for?

Gina Perrelli (14:54):

Oh, it so depends on the brand. Um, we have brands where like 20% is great. It also depends on your attribution window. This has happened to me a couple times where like the standard, when you have play the attribution window is five days. Like that's what it is out of the box five day click five day open. If you start playing with that attribution window, do not go off these benchmarks. Um, cuz it will change dramatically. We have a couple brands that shifted it to one day and they're like, we're not at 20% anymore. I'm like right. Cause that was the benchmark at five days. <laugh> um, so if you give me a one day attribution, it's obviously gonna be less. Um, but where you should be the baseline you usually is at least 20%. Like you should be a brand that like we definitely have brands that trend higher in the thirties. Um, where I would say the warning sign is, is like, if it's almost too good, like when I see brands at 40% of revenue in Clavio and like you are not taking advantage of other channels, like you are probably not doing enough on the acquisition front. Like we need to diversify a bit. Um, so I'd say the sweet spot depending on the brand, what their attention is, how often people are buying the product is somewhere in between like 20, 35.

Ash Melwani (15:56):


Rabah Rahil (15:57):

I like that.

Ash Melwani (15:58):

So like being too high means that like acquisition is just not, it's just not there. It's like, you're not far enough.

Gina Perrelli (16:04):

It's, it's usually a huge red flag, um, that you are just like really, depending on your customers and on email to drive, like, you know, most of your, uh, revenue,

Rabah Rahil (16:15):

Is there some exceptions there where it might be like a longer consideration cycle perhaps like with some higher AOBs or something like you get somebody into this, like, you know, so I I'm a big sneaker head and sometimes I don't purchase like right off. Like I'm a big believer, like the purchase is already made usually in your mind you just have to have enough of a story to kind of push you over. And so like the, the one thing too, cause I don't know. Do you guys do any in-app notification kind of stuff or just strictly SMS email? All that.

Gina Perrelli (16:44):

So we do. Um, oh, okay. So before starting, uh, winter solar, I actually was at an app company, um okay. Where it was a ton of in-app notifications. Like nobody was really on the website. Um, we just, uh, started doing it, um, for a couple. Well, I guess we've been doing it for like a year for a few of the brands, but like it's become more of a, a service now that we're offering. Yeah. Um, with brands who like are on tap cart and uh, have, have their own apps where it's, cuz it's important. Like if you're buying off the app, but push notification strategy is, is more similar to SMS than anything else, but still is a little bit different. I think the biggest factor there is that first push, like you have to get somebody to accept push notifications. Yeah. And like you can only prompt them to do it once on apple if they don't accept it. So like the strategy around how you get that first one is like so critical and often really overlooked.

Rabah Rahil (17:32):

Yeah. That's really interesting. But I'll tell you what, once you get the floodgate open and this is interesting because it's kind of counterintuitive to all the advice that you've been given, which I think is sensational, but um, the more granular you get with push notifications and again, I guess I'm, these are very specific use cases. So one is um, like stock X where it's stuff it's essentially almost abandoned carts where you'll go to stuff and they're like, oh, Hey, check out these shoes they're still available or there's a price drop or they're like, they're so good. And then the other one that kills me, it just absolutely slays me is door dash. They just take all my fucking money and they're like, they, they put like the perfect notifications at the perfect times. So like the perfect offers. And so it was just really fascinating to see how, uh, there's kind of two ends of the spectrum, but I, I, I, a hundred percent agree with you that simplicity 99% of the time wins.

Rabah Rahil (18:21):

And then a lot of times too, you're not gonna have the skew set that DoorDash does or, and to be fair, DoorDash is subscription model anyways and stock X is a volume model where they take a sauce in every commission. And so they're basically an infinite shelf of just making sure you're sewing stuff. So those aren't usually the DTC brand like a DTC brand very rarely is gonna be purely subscription. And a DTC brand is usually gonna cap out at some semblance of skews. And usually within that big set of skews, there's some hero skews that really drive, you know, 80% of the revenue anyways.

Gina Perrelli (18:54):

Yeah. I think the other thing that people don't like realize all this, like all the time is that like you have to scale your retention. That's the same way that you have to scale like, and at account and everything else, like you have to start simple and then build out, like if we're looking at account like grab hub DoorDash or any of those, like they've tested the basics for years. Like their models, their like basic like, you know, post purchase stuff is so dialed that like they have the teams to branch out and make it really sophisticated. Like those like webs and flows and just their, their logic trees I'm sure are so robust, but like they're constantly checking in and optimizing that stuff. Yeah. Um, so like you never, like I'm sure on day one, they weren't just like, so here's how we think we're gonna do it. 5,000 different push notifications. Like it started, they were like, this is doing really well let's test, what have we segmented this like, great, cool. Let's run this from one, like, let's keep this in line. Let's see if we can optimize it. Great. We fully optimize it. Great. Now let's like segment off of this and I think that's kind of how you should build a retention program.

Ash Melwani (19:50):

Interesting. Do so like speaking about like, I guess timeframes and, and when you should be kind of hitting, hitting people right. In the right times to do that, um, post purchase. Right. I, I know a lot of people have different opinions on this and you know, people either are getting super aggressive with like, Hey, you just bought this great. Here's another, uh, another item for like 25, 30% off. Right. Right. Or, you know, there's the other side of it where it's like, Hey, thank you. You know, you know, we have, you know, Avi community, please join that blah, blah, blah. Like, you know, from the founders type thing. So like, is there a best practice? Is it, is it more of a, like, it depends answer. Like what do you, what do you typically like to do to like kind of warm these people up people up during that, like, all right. They're about to get their, their order. And then, you know, maybe even 30 days after that, like what is it, what do you, what do you like to do as best practice?

Gina Perrelli (20:46):

Yeah. So the two, like main factors, there are the AOV and the product catalog. Mm-hmm <affirmative> so Avi, if we're thinking about that, like somebody could buy one product and then a complete, like they could buy burn, and then they could buy like a type of gummy or something like that, where like, that might just be like, you know, like a smaller upsell where if somebody's buying for the first time, typically you wanna wait until they get the product to try to upsell them again, unless you were doing it on the cart page. So like, if it's an upsell for that existing thing on the cart page, like that is great. But once they've bought it, don't send them an email two days later to buy something else. They haven't even gotten their order. They don't know if they like your products. They don't know if you're legit.

Gina Perrelli (21:25):

They don't know if they're gonna get their order. Like wait until they get the product. Um, around the same time that you're asking for a review. Like that is typically the time like, and you can build flows where we've done it for a couple brands where like you ask them to leave a review after you think they've had the product for X amount of days. Then if like review is over, like, you know, four stars, like plus then you send an email and like immediately, and it's like, Hey, and it could be an offer, like some type of upsell to buy another product.

Rabah Rahil (21:54):

That's interesting. What are your thoughts on like physical triggers? So like QR codes in the packaging or like, uh, is that like a nice retention play or what are your thoughts there? And should people be given like discounts or is it like to ASHA's point in involving people in the community? Or where, where do you stand kind of on like, uh, I guess product inserts, if you will.

Gina Perrelli (22:17):

Yeah. QR codes. I think when they're used in the right time, in the right placement. They're great. Um, so like something that I, I thought was like really on brand that lollipop did a while back was like the reorder QR code magnets. And I was like, somebody who's like a really die hard lollipop person is gonna love this little lollipop, magnet that they're gonna put on their fridge and they're gonna scan it. Is that perfect for every brand? No, but a brand that where you have a soda that lives in the fridge and like you typically like, it just like the whole branding of it. It was so like, well executed where I was like, God, that's a great one. Cause now it's on your fridge. You go to the fridge when you reach in there and you grab the last one, you're like, oh shit, like I'm gonna scan this and order more.

Gina Perrelli (22:57):

Yeah. That was a perfect placement for me, what we did a couple years ago, um, when we had first launched super coffees, SMS program on all of their cuz they, their, you know, primarily wholesale on all of the bottles, um, that had gone out was a QR code to join SMS and get a discount when you bought direct. Um, so like that, that was a cool play where it was like, you know, I forget what the tag on was, but it was, you know, it was basically like save X percent. Like next time you would buy people would scan it. And then it would open a text that they could send and they would hit send on the text. They would opt in and we'd trigger this whole keyword flow where like, it would basically educate them where like could buy, um, from, you know, the, the site moving forward.

Rabah Rahil (23:35):

That's incredible. What are your thoughts on, uh, OG, like postcard mail, like physical mail mm-hmm <affirmative> you love it. Hate it.

Gina Perrelli (23:42):

I I'm long on postcards. I am like, I'm, I'm big on it. Me too. I have just recently gotten a couple from, and I don't know if it's one of those things, like, you know, like SMS, when it first came out, like you got a text from a brand, it was really cool. And you're like, oh my God, this is so cool. I've never gotten this before. I'm hoping that that doesn't wear off for me because right now, when I, when I get it, cuz like just traditional mail, like getting like I've gotten enough bed bath and beyond coupons, they all look the same. They haven't changed it in so long. Yes.

Rabah Rahil (24:08):

That when

Gina Perrelli (24:08):

You right. But then when you get this like awesome, like branded like, like everybody in D you know what I mean? Like everything is so edgy. It's so well done. Like when you get that in the mail, you're kind of like, oh, and I think it works really well in winback. Um, so if somebody hasn't yeah. So I don't love it. Like when somebody just buys, we don't need to send them a postcard. Yeah. But if somebody hasn't bought in 90 days, like, you know, and you kind of know like what your retention looks like, if somebody doesn't buy in 90 days, it's really not likely they're coming back to send that person like a cheeky postcard. That's like, well, since you did not us, we showed up anyway type of thing. Like here is some incentive to come back. We miss you. That is like, love it.

Ash Melwani (24:46):

Yeah. I mean, shout out to post pilot. Um, mm-hmm <affirmative> we did a, we did a campaign with them, uh, for winback right. It's like literally people who haven't ordered after 120 days, people that like weren't opening our emails anymore. They'd do their unsubscribed or they're just going straight to spam. Um, you know, we don't even have their numbers, so we can't and reached them on SMS and we're not gonna pay for it on, on ads. Right. So how do you get to all these people and make sure they see your brand, uh, postcard? Like it was, it was such a well thought out, you know, campaign that these guys did for us. And like not even beginning, it was like a thousand percent ROI. It was insane. Um, but yeah. So if you guys haven't tried direct mail for like win back it's it's definitely worth try.

Rabah Rahil (25:31):

I, I love that. Yeah. Direct mail for win back all day, twice on Sundays. <laugh> um,

Gina Perrelli (25:39):

I mean you can't Sundays cuz yeah. Post postman won't come, you're killing one thing about SNA mail.

Rabah Rahil (25:48):

What has been like the best things that you've seen in some sort of retention programs and would've been the worst things and then I want to get into loyalty. Cause I ha I have some, I have some thoughts on loyalty programs.

Gina Perrelli (26:00):

Oh everyone has thoughts on loyalty programs. <laugh> um, okay. Best thing. Best thing is just like somebody who really thought about the customer journey. Like best thing is when I go to a website and I get it and like, you don't notice it until you're a few days in, but after like, if I actually, if I came to your website and I filled out a pop up and four days later, I understand your brand mission and your product catalog. And I'm like, oh, this is the right product. Like for me. And I wanna try it because of this then like you did a good job. Um, if I came to website and filled out my like email and then I just have like six emails about like the fact that I looked at a product and I did this and it's just like the standard like browser abandoning emails. I'm like, absolutely not. This is trashy. You

Rabah Rahil (26:38):

Forgot this in your cart. Some worst email. I hate those

Gina Perrelli (26:44):

There's ways to do it. That it's fun. There's a couple like again where like abandoned current emails. Like it just, yeah, they're slept on, um, people just like think that just like sending it and setting it up and like using the stop copy is gonna work and that it's not, what's gonna get people's attention. So yeah, I would say it's best and worse is like just what the communication is and like, um, how many touchpoints they are and how well thought out they are.

Rabah Rahil (27:07):

That's so interesting. When you, before you go to the worst thing, do you do like a mind map kind of like a customer journey touchpoint or like how do you kind of compose this, you know, uh, I guess journey for lack of a better word throughout, um, the touch points of a brand.

Gina Perrelli (27:24):

Yeah. So I've done as complicated logic as you could possibly get based off massive product catalogs and what people looked at and where they're at and what their AOB is and like how much they've spent for, and like kicking them into the right products based on who they are. And then like, again, starting from the basics, I really think it depends like you, you have to start, so you have to scale the account. Like you can't, nobody should just be coming into a brand. And I've worked with a couple stores before where they're launching and they're like, we wanna do an automation project of 50 emails and like I want different flows for each thing. And I'm like, that is crazy to spend all that money and start there because like, you have no idea how customers are gonna react, what the actual buy, like you just don't have that data yet.

Rabah Rahil (28:01):

Amazing. Is there any tools or anything that you use to map that out or just draw it on piece of paper or keep it in your head or how, how do you kind of, <laugh> manifest that into some sort of deliverable to then map it into Clavio attentive or whatever platform you choose.

Gina Perrelli (28:16):

Yeah. You know, if I, if I didn't build your protection, I probably would've built an app that allowed you to map these things out a bit better. Yeah. Um, cuz that is like the number one question we get when we work with brands, they're like, can we see all the different customer journeys of what happens if someone buys this product and like, you know, does this thing, what emails will they get on what days? And like, no, like there's like, there's no dynamic way for me to like pull all of that out. Um, we do framework it out. So like we'll do like the wait times and whatnot. We'll do it in like dry or like some like flowchart, um, okay. Yeah. Mapping stuff. Like everyone kind has their own, we

Rabah Rahil (28:51):

Work lot sketch stigma, something. Yeah,

Gina Perrelli (28:52):

Exactly where like you just draw it, but I don't have any like best practice on like a good flow chart. Cause it's like, you wanna see the creative, you wanna see all the messaging, you wanna see all that stuff. Yeah. Um, and everybody's customer journey. I think people think about it very literally like someone comes in, they abandoned a cart, but it's like someone came in, they filled out a popup, they looked at one product, they added a different product to their cart. If you don't have the right filters on all of those flows, all of a sudden someone just came to the website. Once now they're in a welcome flow, a browse flow and an abandoned cart flow, God forbid, they bought something else. Then they're in a post purchase flow.

Rabah Rahil (29:24):

That's a really good point. I didn't think about that. That over, over subscription is a really real big thing. If you're not, um, tidy with your exclusions in terms of those more complex journeys, which are actually a lot more, uh, frequent than people think.

Gina Perrelli (29:39):

Yep. Yeah. I, I think that's some, some, so like some of the worst stuff really is it's the, it's the brands that are trying so hard and like not thinking about all the different filters where I get in there and like you sometimes the most sophisticated flows I'll get in, then I'll be like, wait a minute. Like, people aren't even getting any emails because the way you set the exclusions up, like you overcomplicated it and now like, no one's going through it. Yeah. But that, it happens pretty often.

Rabah Rahil (30:04):

That's my favorite. You're like, why is this not working? You go check the deliverability like 3 cent. Like, well, there's a certain challenge here.

Ash Melwani (30:14):

Um, I Robin, do you wanna talk about loyalty program? You wanna talk about subscription next? What's up

Rabah Rahil (30:22):

Me, get my loyalty rage out and then we can, we can be happy

Ash Melwani (30:25):

About, I know you've been waiting for this for, for episodes on episodes. So you gotta get it out,

Rabah Rahil (30:30):

Sitting on a pedestal. Uh, no. So my only issue with, uh, loyalty programs and I'm putting loyalty programs in a box. So this, this is, you know, uh, putting that caveat out there where not every loyalty program is created equal, but my big issue is a lot of times loyalty programs are premised on the fact that you're going to give the people that gave you the most money, a bunch of money off. And so like you just start to make these really perverted economics where you get like your best users and your best cohorts. And then you're like, Hey, spend a bunch of money with us, but don't give us a bunch of money. And like, I think that's just such a weird way to think about it because it's just like, they want to give you money and they wanna be part of your business.

Rabah Rahil (31:16):

And why would you like these people don't need a discount in order, do they want discount? And so it's just a weird way to, uh, run the business. And so that's my big kind of issue with loyalty programs. Most of them are built off of those diminishing economics, which is just like, if you like for me a great thought experiment, every time I'm thinking about marketing initiative is like, okay, if this super succeeds, like, will I be happy? And like, if you think about a loyalty program, if loyalty program super succeeds and you're sitting there making the best, people spend less money with you more often, like that just doesn't net out. So that's my big beef with loyalty

Gina Perrelli (31:51):

Programs. Okay. So I'm actually glad you brought this up cuz there's a, there's probably so much that people don't understand going on behind the scenes that's supposed to happen when you set up loyalty and it's not what's happening. Um, so literary should, are actually just like launch a new service, which is just loyalty programs, like setting up loyalty programs. Cuz like, if, yeah, if you just go in, you're like cool, 10 points is equal to X amount of dollars and this is like your thing. And you just like set it up. Like that is not a program. Like you just you're doing exactly what you said, giving away money where, when we set up loyalty, we do a lot of research on the customer. Like so, okay. Like who actually are 10% of customers. Like if we look at like AOB, it's like, okay, like only 10% of the customer base has ever spent over $6,000 with you guys.

Gina Perrelli (32:33):

Like if we gave those people all, they spend so much money that even if we gave them 30% off to continue spending that much money each year to lock them in, they would still be our most profitable cohort. Cool. That's how we set up tiers. So we do a lot of research into like, you know, like what does your customer base look like? What does the average customer spend? Where the milestones, where if we can just get them to a little bit more. So if the average customer spends $400 a year, like to get into a tier where they get like free shipping or some tourists of gift, it should be like 10% higher than that. And like that is like the tier. So you constantly are putting a carrot in front of them where like, and you just like look at it. And you're like, okay.

Gina Perrelli (33:10):

And if everybody else, you know, got 5% off, like on their orders and they spent between this and this, like that would be fine. So I think the tier programs are great. I think that like, I'm like, I always look at like the airlines and like how I'm constantly chasing a higher status with that. And like it barely unlocks it. Like I'm more likely to be upgraded. I'm more likely to do whatever, but I'm constantly chasing the status where like it does it, it complicates it. If you don't communicate it right. You don't think about it. But if you do it really like effectively the status, like things definitely help. And if you have a brand where you do have customers that buy often, um, that's kind of how you have to set it up. So I think that loyalty when it's done, like the fast way, just isn't worth it. Like you, if you have a one tier loyalty program, like that's probably not it, but if you've got a couple different tiers, then like you have to just think about like where like where are those tiers? What does somebody have to earn to get to the next one? Like, cuz that's what you wanna do. You basically wanna take this group of people who are only gonna spend $400 a year. Cause that's your average, how do we get them to spend five to six?

Rabah Rahil (34:08):

So yeah. So I'd be in on that where there's a certain aspect of like, um, tipping points, right? Like if you can get them past this tipping point where it's like, if you buy, so for example, like this isn't a loyalty program, but just to give people an understanding of tipping point, like when people on triple well download the app, connect more than two, uh, channels. And uh, what's the other one add expenses, those three things like their activation that act the, the activation from that cohort is like extraordinary compared to like the baseline cohort. And so we try to build all of our onboarding marketing around that. And so you just make that analogous to, you know, economic triggers where it's like, okay, cool. If you can get somebody to buy X, Y, or Z or you know, you send them a bag. If I can get them to hit this and then they, they buy, get the, a bag or get a free piece of a merch. Are they more likely to then spend more with me that I'm into I'm actually yeah. I'm into that.

Gina Perrelli (35:09):

Yeah. I think about it the same way. Um, with subscription kind of like the tools and stuff that we've built out where like we started like looking at, if you can just get somebody to order number three, that's where there's so much less like, like we, and we started looking at those like churn reports and stuff like that, where like, where do we dangle the carrot? Like, is it best to put a free gift in between one and two? Or should it be between two and three? Cause we know that if we could just get somebody to that third order, they're less likely to cancel. That's kind of like another version of it, but basically what we're doing with loyalty programs.

Ash Melwani (35:38):

How are you guys doing that analysis?

Gina Perrelli (35:41):

Um, so it's pulling a lot of different segments, um, like looking at your customers and basically saying like, I mean, I, the first time I ever did it, it was so scrappy. I literally went into some of these Clavio and I was like, lifetime value is like, I looked at their whole database. I'm like, okay, great. I've got a million customers, lifetime value is over a thousand. And I was like, okay, cool. Like I've got a couple thousand like, and lifetime value is like this, like in the last year spent this and I just started pulling different segments to kind of find where those like, um, like where the different tiers were and like, you know, like what those bases were. And then I went to the client and I was like, okay, if I could get all of these people who spend this much to spend this much, would you be fine with giving them a discount of this and for shipping on their orders?

Gina Perrelli (36:18):

Typically they do this. This is like where. And they were like, yeah, of course. And like, so like I kind of did worst case scenario planning of like worst case scenario. All these people like take advantage of this. This is what you give up. And they were like, we are fine. Like with that risk that, that works for our model. Um, so it depends on your margins depends on everything, but like there's so much thought that goes into like how many, um, dollars you spend to earn a point and then how much the points are worth when you redeem them. Yep. And then the tiers, like, so like, and then like what the tiers do as multipliers. So like if the base tiers, like, you know, you get one point for every $10 spend and then like, you know, every one point is a, a dollar off or something like that. Yep. And then like when you do the next status, it's like, what? And now it's like, you get a multiplier of like 1.5 or something like that. And like, and so on and so forth.

Rabah Rahil (37:12):

It's fascinating to see you said the airline miles, they're kind of the, the pioneer of that. Um, and I only fly American because of that. I don't really have an American freshman. I don't even think it's that nice. I think probably Delta's even a nicer airline. And I, I just do that for like out of weird habit of like some sort of like, you know, miser in me where it's like, ah, I could be getting points, man. Oh my gosh, like let's do this. And then Amazon prime, I think is another great example of like a quote unquote loyalty program, cuz like I already paid for this. Right. And so I have the loss, a version of like, I don't, I can just get it shit for free. And like they have some crazy metric. I can't remember. But like an Amazon prime customer is like three or four times, um, more valuable than an actual non-prime customer.

Rabah Rahil (37:55):

And so basically every single Amazon property, I mean AWS aside obviously, but like Amazon video, all these other things are all just lost leaders to get somebody to buy an Amazon prime membership, which is really fascinating. Starbucks is exact like Starbucks was not doing horrible, but once they introduced their loyalty program, it was amazing. I, I used to have a gold card. Like I was so excited to have a gold card. Cause you waste all your money there on shitty coffee. It's like incredible. How, how well they, they blended not only the economic incentives, but like to your point, I think the status incentives and being able to be like a, a, you know, a, somebody in the community is really meaningful to a lot of people. Like you're part of something. And then you also get to, you know, signal, I guess, your prosperity in a way to other people in the community. Like, Hey, not only am I part of this community, but I'm a big, big part of it. And so I, I think there's a lot there that you touched on. I love that.

Ash Melwani (38:48):

I think what you just said on like the value end, right? Like how you said, oh, I, I wanna get that gold Starbucks card or I want to get that, that black card from, you know, the airline or whatever it is. Right. So instead of like every tier, right? It's not like, oh, you're gonna get 20% off or 30% off. Cause you're like the most VIP customer, like kind of like how you mentioned, right? Why are you having your VIP customers spend less? Right. But I think the better way to kind of incentivize them is, is that value, right? So for, for us, it's like, all right, you hit, I think we have three or four tiers actually to get into the next tier. You end up getting, not a con like a lifetime discount. It's one, your, your multiplier goes up, but then, Hey, now you get a free, you know, like you said, merch, right?

Ash Melwani (39:34):

Like free shaker cup or free bag. Um, and then the next tier is you get something else, right. Again, you're not, you're not discounting, but then even the final tier, which is like very difficult to get, like you are able to, you know, I think the, one of the initiatives Ron is trying to do is like, you get to like become part of the team and picking the next flavor. Right? Yeah. So like, things like that where it's like, oh shit, like I wanna spend like thousands of dollars with you just so I can have my own flavor. Like that is next level. Um, so value over discount is probably a takeaway here.

Gina Perrelli (40:10):

Yeah. I, I absolutely agree. Sometimes like you do need to make sure it's it's right. I can't, I Delta, like I hit platinum status and they sent me like really awful luggage tags. And I was like, we couldn't have, couldn't have done a little bit better here. Yeah. But like, had they been like really nice, like leather ones and like, like had they done it? Like somebody once sent me like, um, uh, what's it, um, the custom like leather tags. I have my name on them and I was like, that would've been better. Like Delta, like maybe we just need to do it a little bit better, but like yeah. It's like those gifts and stuff where it's, you know, it could

Ash Melwani (40:40):

Really hit it's just that spice.

Gina Perrelli (40:43):


Ash Melwani (40:44):


Rabah Rahil (40:44):

So the, the delight,

Gina Perrelli (40:46):

Right? Almond gear. Wait, because you brought it up in the beginning. That's who did it? When we checked out, we get in the, they put your bags in the car. When we got in the car, they put luggage tags with our initials. I was like, my mind was alone. They fully detailed the car. They put water bottle. Oh yeah, it was nuts. But

Rabah Rahil (41:05):

That is cool.

Gina Perrelli (41:06):

They gave me better luggage tags than Delta when I hit platinum status. And it's

Rabah Rahil (41:09):

A lot money with Delta and that's a lot more money. Yeah, exactly. <laugh> and there's a bigger LTV with Delta than there is with like how many times you gonna go the spa crazy resort.

Gina Perrelli (41:18):

Never. I like, I've never really never

Rabah Rahil (41:20):

The one once in a twice kind of 10 year thing. Let me ask you an interesting question though. If they would've told you that they were gonna do that, like all the little things that they did for you without it, would it been as, as impactful?

Gina Perrelli (41:33):


Rabah Rahil (41:34):

Isn't that interesting? Like the light is a function of not knowing and it's so, so interesting where it's a point like, like there's the worst thing you can do when you have a really great surprise is tell somebody it's coming. So, um, like it's, it's just so interesting to me how there's, there's sometimes where you like the carrot is great, but then there's also a certain aspect of like, to your point, Ash, of like those people that hit like this God tier of Avi, like you just send them like this care package of amazingness that they have zero expectation about. And like, there's just this feeling of delight that again, it's a function of surprise where if they know it's coming, it's like, this is, it's a weird thing. It's like being tickled. Like you can't tickle yourself cause you expect it. And so like, if there's an expectation, you can't get tickled. And so it's just very odd. I like her. See, see, I'm burning, it's like 10 30 over here. I'm burning. I'm burning out. Okay. Let's

Gina Perrelli (42:30):

Surprise and delight.

Rabah Rahil (42:32):

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Let's do subs. And then, um, the weird question.

Gina Perrelli (42:39):

Perfect. Um, well I guess surprising delay is like a perfect segue and that's one of the first like features like, can we, when I was approaching building a subscription app and a retention program, I was like, you know, how would it be different? And I looked at everything that people had asked me for the last couple years when we were trying to, you know, build on the legacy providers, you know, could we do this? Like, could we test that? And I had to be like, no, or like I tried to like bandaid it together. And like the biggest one was like, could we do a free gift this month for all subscribers? Could we do a free gift on order? Number two, could we do this? And I was like, God, why can't you do that? Um, so that was like one of our first tools that we built into the platform was this like promotions builder, where like within a couple clicks, you can just do like, okay, let's offer everybody who subscribes this product for free on order.

Gina Perrelli (43:21):

Number two, this product for free on order number five, this product at a 50% discount. And you can test the offers. So you can say like two different, like a tote bag versus a hat or like a shaker bottle or like a variety pack or something like that, where it's, it's been interesting. We're obviously like, kind of in the beginning phases of a lot of this, um, with the brands, but it's been really cool to kind of see how different brands have been approaching that, um, with the different surprise and delight models for subs, for subscribers.

Rabah Rahil (43:48):

That's super interesting. One of the things I think is interesting and obviously it depends on your business model, but I always thought it's so fascinating to give somebody some sort of like low margin or excuse me, low cost to the business. So like low cogs, high margin, um, tool. So that helps consume the product. So like athletic greens does this where it's like, if you do a subscription, they'll give you like a shaker bottle. Like all these things. Like what, what's your vibe on that?

Gina Perrelli (44:17):

Um, I love it. Uh, especially when it's something like that, that sits in your kitchen every day. Like the, um, the, um, I'm thinking about ed Teno when they have the, um, what is it like the little electric? Oh

Rabah Rahil (44:27):

Yeah. The little the stir,

Gina Perrelli (44:28):

You know? Yes, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, like that now it's like sitting on your kitchen. Now you walk in your kitchen every single day, you see the branding, you have this product. Like, it, it really, I think definitely helps with one, like just remembering it and also like they don't cost much. Um, you throw 'em in and somebody like the perceived value of it is so much higher.

Rabah Rahil (44:49):

Yes. And you build a that's all we do think with them, that's it. Right. Let's go kids. Yeah. Amazing. Um, Ash, any thoughts on subscriptions? And then we'll get to the creepy question.

Ash Melwani (45:03):

Yeah. Well, I, I mean, in terms of subscriptions, right? I think it might be a fully load question, but I think a lot of brands now are trying to push like subscription on the first order and like default is like subscriber save. Right. Um, we've tried it, it didn't really increase subscriptions. Cause I think people obviously just wanna try the product first. Um, so what is like the biggest tip you can give? Where, how can I, how can I just get more people into a subscription?

Gina Perrelli (45:35):

Yeah. Great. Um, that's a good one. I think that tips. So like what we see a lot is you'll offer a discount for first purchase, you know, do you, but your first time welcome flow type of thing you're offering. If you wanna get that discount again? You need to subscribe and messaging that in a post purchase flow and like ads and things is, is awesome. It's like, Hey, like, especially if you know that somebody used your welcome code on their first time and they haven't bought for the second time yet, like using that type of language of like, wanna keep your same discount, like come like, love the product, come back, get the discount when you subscribe that type of thing. We've seen work really well. Um, in post purchase flows.

Rabah Rahil (46:11):

That's fantastic.

Ash Melwani (46:12):

That's so smart. The,

Rabah Rahil (46:14):

The other thing too, that I'll add, and we'll wrap up on subscriptions. You wanna make the frequencies make sense? The worst thing you wanna do is have these weird frequencies where it's like, you're gonna end up with maybe the Avi, not the Avi community. Cause I've seen the people that just, they just buy like hoarder style quantities of it. But for the most part, people don't wanna stack up a bunch of stuff. You wanna make sure that the consumption cycle is lined up with, um, the subscription frequency. That's the, a big mistake. I see a lot of people making where they lose a lot of subscription or they have a high subscription churn or no adoption because the, again, going back to a no regret strategy, people buy off. I would rather make no choice than bad choices. Um, if they can't decide, oh, am I gonna use it too much? And you just have a bunch of toothpaste piling up in your bathroom. You're gonna cancel that subscription instantly. And you're probably never gonna buy against

Gina Perrelli (47:02):

One of the biggest things we've realized. This is probably the biggest pro tip without dropping. The whole podcast is the longer the subscriber cycle. The better do not push for people to go every one week, every one month, every three months, larger quantities interest. Interesting is less shipping. That's a good point. Um, less times for them to cancel the less time they get that your order has come through like notification. And like, you're kind of like training behavior there. It does mean like less touch points, um, in the very beginning. So like if they came in, they like bought one time. Great. And then we get them into subscription. But yeah, a lot of times like brands are always like trying to go for that one month thing, but just three times the quantity, every three months, you're typically gonna see a way higher, um, lifetime value.

Rabah Rahil (47:49):

Oh, that is fascinating. That is super fascinating. Um, okay. You guys ready for the, keep your question?

Ash Melwani (47:56):


Gina Perrelli (47:56):

Yeah, let's do it.

Rabah Rahil (47:58):

Okay. Uh, should I start with you Ash or,

Ash Melwani (48:02):

Uh, let, let's let you go first.

Rabah Rahil (48:04):

No, we can't. You gotta go first. Don't you can't go what? Its I'm

Ash Melwani (48:09):

What its <laugh>

Rabah Rahil (48:11):

Okay. Ash. Here it goes. You've been given an elephant. You can't give it away or sell it. What would you do with the elephant?

Ash Melwani (48:18):


Rabah Rahil (48:19):

It's a good one, right?

Ash Melwani (48:21):

Oh, what I do with the

Rabah Rahil (48:23):

Elephant researching

Ash Melwani (48:24):

Honestly like this elephant. Well, first of all, I would need to get myself in a position where I have like a house and a backyard to have this elephant fair play. Hang out with me. Um, I'd probably move down south, right? To make sure that the weather is good for the elephant. Um, build a nice pool and just like hang out with the elephant. I don't know. And maybe like charge kids like on Halloween to like come in and trick treat like, Hey, why don't you go that elephant? <laugh> come get some candy. I dunno.

Rabah Rahil (48:55):

No's better. You cannot be held down. Think about the Turkey candy

Ash Melwani (48:59):

Stuff. Question. <laugh>

Rabah Rahil (49:02):

Amazing. So you're going to chill with the elephant and sell elephant rides while you move down south migrating.

Ash Melwani (49:07):

Yeah. That's

Rabah Rahil (49:08):

It's not, not

Ash Melwani (49:10):

Horrible. What else can you do with elephant?

Rabah Rahil (49:11):

I dunno. You've had words. Gina, what are you gonna do with your elephant?

Gina Perrelli (49:15):

Um, well first I'm gonna do a little bit of research on elephants. Cause I don't, I don't really know what elephants like. Um, but I have heard the elephants are like really, really smart. So I, so I probably teach it tricks, um, and things where like we could do fun things together. Like we could, I dunno, self puzzles put on, shows me in the elephant would probably have a YouTube channel. I'm thinking, oh

Rabah Rahil (49:37):

That's big brain.

Gina Perrelli (49:39):

I think that's, I think we would probably like, cause they're so smart. So like you could learn different things and then like you could and then like, think about it like you and the elephant would like, they be like my business partner and then like the more money we made off YouTube, like the bigger of like the areas I could buy, we would go have a couple acres. We would have a pond. That's amazing. Yeah. Me and the elephant would really crush. We

Ash Melwani (50:00):

Would crush influencer. I'd

Rabah Rahil (50:01):

Watch that

Gina Perrelli (50:02):

Watch immediately.

Rabah Rahil (50:03):

Gina the elephant. I would a hundred percent watch that zero.

Ash Melwani (50:06):

I'm gonna change my answer way too.

Rabah Rahil (50:08):

I know that's big.

Gina Perrelli (50:09):

It's amazing.

Rabah Rahil (50:11):

That threw me off. I was gonna go, I was going to use it as transport. Learn how to ride elephant. And then I save on gas, money, gas show the

Ash Melwani (50:17):

Elephants, use that transportation or turn it to an influencer.

Rabah Rahil (50:22):

Yeah. The influencer is a big play. Maybe, maybe a GoFundMe to go buy like a big, big acreage on a ranch and then have like a little elephant reserve. Yeah. But I don't know the, the YouTube channel, I think beats that that's a strong Gina

Ash Melwani (50:34):

Amazing that's by far

Rabah Rahil (50:36):

And think of the retention play there, right? Like who doesn't wanna see episode after episode and you can build a subscription. Like, do you wanna,

Gina Perrelli (50:43):

I would have a community where people vote on the tricks I learned and you have to be like a certain level. Like what is it like pardon? Or what's the thing where you like donate money and then you can do whatever. Yeah. Like based on like what you donate, you get into, I'm gonna have a loyalty program for the elephant community. And if you hit the high enough tier, you get to pick what me and the elephant do.

Rabah Rahil (51:03):

And then once you hit like the God tier that we're talking about, you get a picture with the elephant stamp and it's a post pilot postcard. Mm-hmm

Gina Perrelli (51:11):

<affirmative> for, for

Rabah Rahil (51:12):

More for unbelievable. Perfect.

Ash Melwani (51:14):

It's an elephant.

Rabah Rahil (51:15):

Mm-hmm <affirmative> we need an elephant. Now

Gina Perrelli (51:17):

We do a partnership with Delta Delta flies you in, um, to come meet the elephant. If you are one, if you are a top purchaser of

Rabah Rahil (51:24):

The year, Delta hit us up. We just need to find an elephant, but we're on this something here. YouTube is about to be taken over. Um, Gina tell people how they can follow you, how they can get more involved with your business, both sides of it. Um, this time's yours.

Gina Perrelli (51:37):

Yeah. Um, Gina ley on Instagram or email like a G on Twitter. Um, Midtown Gina is, is what I go by. Um, so yeah, Twitter, Twitter, DMS are open, um, retention or retention.com. <laugh> everything. retention.com. Lunar solar.com fit me up.

Rabah Rahil (51:55):


Ash Melwani (51:56):

On mentor pass, right?

Gina Perrelli (51:58):

Oh, I am also on mentor pass. Yeah, let's go is in my Twitter bio. Um, but yeah, I'm, I'm pretty accessible. I feel like if you just follow me for a day or so on Twitter, you know exactly what I'm up to.

Rabah Rahil (52:07):

Yeah. Yeah. Year Twitter is awesome. And again, if you can get into her IG, it's super phenomenal. It's really fun. It's she's picky. You let's, she lets in. But if you get in, it's really fun, Ash. You know what to do. Hey, before I get you into the, you know what to do section, were you guys doing some product, new product stuff? Is that what I saw in your Insta? Yeah. You were doing some new. Oh,

Ash Melwani (52:27):

So and

Rabah Rahil (52:28):

2020, can you drop it or it's still okay. Still under the covers.

Ash Melwani (52:32):

Yeah. It's okay. No question for next year. Um, but yeah, you'll see soon. Um, I might drop a little Tibit on Twitter. Be cool. Okay. But yeah. Uh, check me out on Twitter, Ashani, um, pass also available for anything paid regarding this and that. Um, and uh, if you need some collagen in your life, check out a vitamin shop nearby. Yes. If you go take a picture, send it to me, tag me in it, whatever it is. Um, but yeah, that's, that's it for me.

Rabah Rahil (53:03):

That's my favorite sign off. I love it. Take a picture at the vitamin shop. People send it to my man. Mowan

Ash Melwani (53:09):

Send it to me.

Gina Perrelli (53:11):

I O U UDC. That's what I'm soon as I get back to New York, cause like this glow, this is

Ash Melwani (53:16):

College. I only wanna run a Snapchat. Just Gina <laugh>

Rabah Rahil (53:21):

With Gina, her elephant, the

Ash Melwani (53:24):


Rabah Rahil (53:24):

It's amazing. Glowing, glowing. That's it incredible. All right folks, that's it for us. If you do want to get more involved with triple whale, we are tri triple.com. We're on the bird app at triple whale. And then we have a wonderful, uh, newsletter that goes out every Tuesday, Thursday called well mail. You can subscribe right on our Twitter page. I am also on the mentor pass. Um, you can help my sneaker habit if you want to buy some time book some time, Gina, this was so fun. You were incredible. Thank you so much for dropping all the knowledge moms go follow Gina, go follow Ash. That's another ad. Spin in the books. Thanks everybody. Hey guys.

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