Christina Garnett on Community Building, NASA Social, DC v Marvel & More

December 1, 2022


Hosted By

Rabah Rahil
CMO at Triple Whale
Maxx Blank
Co-Founder of Triple Whale


Christina Garnett
Senior Marketing Manager

Episode Description

We were joined by the Queen of Marketing Twitter, Christina Garnett. She explains all the systems, strategies and tactics she uses to build vibrant and engaged communities. #ROAS

Notes & Links

Follow Christina here: https://twitter.com/ThatChristinaG

HubSpots Inbound 2021: https://www.inbound.com/register


Rabah Rahil (00:10):

All right, everybody. We are back for episode four and man, it should be a holiday here at triple whale. We have a screamer for you. I am Raba joined with my partner in crime co-founder of triple whale and tightening the eCommerce industry Molan. And today we have the social media Maven, the queen of marketing Twitter, the super bomb, Christina Garett, Christina. Welcome.

Christina Garnett (00:35):

Thank you so much for having me. I don't know what I can say to kind of warn that kind of intro

Rabah Rahil (00:41):

<laugh> well, just go follow your, your Twitter feed and there that is more than justification there. So I'm out in the satellite campus in Austin. Max is in Columbus, Ohio or HQ. Where does this podcast find you today?

Christina Garnett (00:55):

I'm in Virginia. I'm excited to be here.

Rabah Rahil (00:58):

Oh, very cool. So Virginia, you went to school in North Carolina though, right?

Christina Garnett (01:03):

I did. I'm originally from North Carolina and then I moved up to Virginia in 2010.

Rabah Rahil (01:07):

Oh, cool. What'd you study?

Christina Garnett (01:09):

I was an English major.

Rabah Rahil (01:10):

Oh, cool. So did you see a lot of English majors and kind of lit majors and people that study? I guess the pros of the English language dovetail a lot into kind of community led positions.

Christina Garnett (01:22):

I think it's more liberal arts. I went to a liberal arts school. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, because that's not so much discipline specific as it is. Sure. Adaptability being able to think like critical thinking and think logically, I think that kind of lends itself to that because you specifically are taught how to kind of lean into things to yeah. Have a unique perspective to be able to look for, um, for specific traits. One of, one of the best things that I actually learned from my English degree was, um, there's a class that you have to take in order to declare your major first and okay. It was specifically on theory. And so it, it, at the time I hated it. It was my least favorite class. And it's the one that's actually had the, the most profound impact on me because I thought it was teaching me. I needed to fit in a box. Yeah. And because I fit in a box, that's, that's my whole thing, but I was deconstructionist and I am to this day and my that's how my brain works. It's how I look at everything is how can we break this into pieces? How can we improve things what's said, versus what's not being said, all of those things are, are such a core part of what I've been doing since I graduated,

Rabah Rahil (02:29):

Man. That's brilliant. I, I love that. So how do you get from North Carolina to Salem?

Christina Garnett (02:36):

Um, my husband. Okay. He's he's from Virginia. And so we met, um, Matt got married, had children and my in-laws live in Virginia and we wanted them to have a very close relationship with their grandchildren. So we moved to Virginia.

Rabah Rahil (02:50):

Oh, that's beautiful. I love that. Um, are Dixie caverns? Cool.

Christina Garnett (02:55):

They're cool. Yeah,

Rabah Rahil (02:56):

Yeah. Yeah. Worth seeing

Maxx Blank (02:58):

Robert you're a big outdoorsy man.

Rabah Rahil (03:00):

<laugh> yeah, dude, I loved outdoor was died in Hawaii, but

Christina Garnett (03:03):

Uh, there's there's Dixie Cain is great. I would actually recommend other things though.

Rabah Rahil (03:08):

Um, okay. I

Christina Garnett (03:09):

Would, uh, McAfee's knob. Okay. There's there's a set. If you just Google do Google images for McAfee's knob. You'll see, it looks like, it looks like a ledge, like a rock ledge. Okay. And then you're able to see the entire Roanoke valley. Um,

Rabah Rahil (03:23):

Oh wow.

Christina Garnett (03:24):

It's it's a, it's like, it is. It's the perfect shot.

Rabah Rahil (03:28):

Oh man. I see it. Oh

Christina Garnett (03:30):

Right now. So if you are now, if you're an outdoorsy person and you want to come here, McAfee's knob. Like there's so many other things I could, I could recommend, but if it's like, like quintessential, it's that?

Rabah Rahil (03:41):

Oh, oh my gosh. Look at all the internet research. Oh, all the hours are poured in. I should have just talked to you. That's brilliant. <laugh> okay. Let's let's extrapolate even more from the outdoors. Let's go to outer space. Tell me you, you worked a little bit for NASA, right?

Christina Garnett (03:53):

No. Um,

Rabah Rahil (03:54):

No NASA social though.

Christina Garnett (03:56):

NASA social NASA social has a program. Um, it's actually really fantastic where, um, you're able to apply. Okay. And you're able to specifically, um, go to a launch, go to events that are, that are for them. So you get to go. So mine was at Kennedy. Um, I was a, mine was a SpaceX launch and it was the one where they put slime for Nickelodeon and they took, they took that to the international space station. So that was the one I got to go to.

Rabah Rahil (04:23):

Oh cool.

Christina Garnett (04:24):

Um, and I was working for an agency at the time. So one of my clients did stuff with NASA. So I was able to all the content that I was able to get while I was there. I also sent to them. And so they were able to use some of it with their packaging as well. But I, as soon as they make it available, it's been virtual for the past 18 months for obvious reasons. Once they are in person again, I cannot recommend it enough. And what's really beautiful about it is it's not just influencers. So you're not just, you're not just solely picked by your follower count. Right. Um, the one that I was on, we had, we had math teachers, we had science teachers. We have like people who do podcasts, we had a YouTuber with us. We had, um, they've really, they really kind of expand it. So it's not hyper focused on followers. Yes. That helps. And yes, that can definitely help you being selected. Um, but they really want, they're really picking people who will have such like a transcendental moment while they're there. That's true. And so what

Maxx Blank (05:26):

Was the,

Christina Garnett (05:27):


Maxx Blank (05:28):

Well, what was the reasoning for the, for the, uh, Nickelodeon slim?

Christina Garnett (05:32):

Um, I, I don't know. I can't say they, they, but they did have multiple, um, they had multiple experiments that they were doing, that they were sending up to the international space station. So that wasn't the only one. Um, they had ones where it was, um, one of them was something, they, they grow skin cells and they grow other cells. So they were trying to figure out like art, would you be able to build like an artificial heart in space in zero gravity? Oh wow. Like things like that. So a lot of experiments that were being done on earth and then being able to see like, is there any difference when it's happening on the international space station? So a lot of the stuff that was there, I feel like nickel, the Nickelodeon slim is a really great option because I mean, you're gonna get pressed for that. So that's like, that's earned, that's earned media, like right here.

Maxx Blank (06:18):

Um, so like I, it's a good move from building a community. Right.

Christina Garnett (06:21):

Absolutely. And the, and the NASA social group is so incredibly sweet and kind. And, um, the reason I have NASA social in my bio is because if you look at other NASA socials, if you use that same hashtag to look at others, you'll see the community of people who've been to these launches. And some have been to multiple ones. Some have only been to one, but everyone is so kind and, and just incredibly welcoming to people. And they, they truly understand that, like we're all here, we're all incredibly curious. We want to, we wanna learn more. We wanna be able to see things. And so it's just a really fantastic opportunity. So like I said, as soon as they open up to real life, um, again, I, I, I honestly can't recommend it enough. I, I wish everyone would have a chance to go.

Maxx Blank (07:03):


Rabah Rahil (07:04):

That that's beautiful. Um, out here in Texas, there's a really, uh, cool mountain you could go to and it's, um, one of the darkest places on earth and you there's an observatory at the top. And I went one time for the per side's meter shower. And the Milky way felt like it was just falling on you. And to, to your point, like transcendental is such a great descriptor of it, where it was just this other worldly experience of like, felt so small. It was crazy. That's beautiful. Yeah, it was. Um, so you're spoken at conferences you're featured in endless articles. Some would kind of call you the queen of Twitter. You're a super mom, uh, you're head of community and advocacy at HubSpot. How do you balance all these things? And like, there's just so much going on. That's like three or four things for a person and I forgot your consultancy. There's just all this stuff going on. How do you balance all of that?

Christina Garnett (07:58):

Um, I'd probably say that I have like undiagnosed a D D <laugh>, so I'm

Maxx Blank (08:02):

Constantly, I've got the diagnose <laugh>

Christina Garnett (08:06):

I just naturally gravitate my brain. Doesn't shut off. Um, so I'm, I'm constantly looking for something. Um, I'm joked with my husband and my friends, as soon as my masters is finished. So I'm gonna like figure out what class I wanna take next, because I can't, I can't turn that part off of me. Um, so it's constantly looking for things, but yeah, I, I hate being bored. It's my least favorite feeling. So I'm constantly trying to figure out how, what can I learn? How can I do something? What can I do next? And so I, I think that's what it is. Like, I can't focus on only one thing. So I love the ability and that's also what I love about digital marketing. Um, and what I, I think, like, I know you said like English, people being drawn into community. I think there's also this tendency of people who hate to be bored. Yeah. Kind of gravitate towards social and gravitate towards digital because it intrinsically, it changes constantly. Yeah. And so for the person who hates to be bored, that's, that's life affirming. That's like, now I know I'm, I'm constantly gonna be challenged. I constantly have to be reading. I have to know. And, and granted, it can be tiresome times, but it's so lovely to, to know that I know exactly what I do for my job, but I'm not gonna do the exact same tasks. Right. Every single day. That's really powerful for me.

Maxx Blank (09:21):

How, how do you kind shut off, you know, like in, in good question and get away from it, right. Yeah. Something that I, struggle's something I struggle with and

Rabah Rahil (09:29):


Maxx Blank (09:29):

Yeah. Get a few ways that are gonna built into my,

Christina Garnett (09:32):

Um, at night I take melatonin. Um, okay. And then I do, um, either calm or Peloton. I do the meditations.

Rabah Rahil (09:41):

Oh, cool.

Christina Garnett (09:42):

Because it, it very much helps me kind of, I, I need an, I need like an external source. Like I need something mm-hmm <affirmative> to kind of, to tap into. Um, but it's, it's a really calming and it lets me focus in a, in a, in a way that works for my brain. So I absolutely love those, like a DT on Peloton is my absolute favorite. Like, I love her more than absolutely any other, like, even more than Cody who I love. Um, but I love a DT. I could listen to her. Like, I, I she's. So like her, her, her energy as well as her voice is so calming. So that's, I, I definitely recommend meditation. It's the closest thing to actually turning my brain off. That works.

Maxx Blank (10:21):


Rabah Rahil (10:22):

I also, uh, meditate as well. Cause I'm also crazy. Uh <laugh> and so it, it can definitely temper, um, temper the edges, but yeah, that's beautiful. Do you have any frameworks or, uh, systems that you use to keep like your productivity or stuff aligned or do you just like note taker or how do you, how do you keep everything kind of organized and making sure like, the things that are moving forward are moving forward.

Christina Garnett (10:43):

So I take meticulous notes. Yeah. And all of my to-do lists are analog. So I, I have like, I have a notebook and I have like a sauna, me too. And I put things, but there's something, so just energy giving when you're able to actually like cross something off, like crossing off with your hand. So especially if you're like, you hated it and you can be like, violently, like scratching through it.

Rabah Rahil (11:09):

<laugh> you can't a space printer.

Christina Garnett (11:12):

You can't, but you can't violently like, check that, that box. Like you just click

Maxx Blank (11:17):

It I'm with you. I'm

Christina Garnett (11:19):

With you. Yeah. It's kind of, it's kind of the concept of like, you can't, you can't hang up on someone on it's a smartphone anymore. <laugh> it's just gonna say it's, it's not the same. It doesn't have the emotional weight. So I do keep notes online and like what I need to do, but what it comes down to like foundational framework of like, what is absolutely everything that needs to get done? What do I need to be thinking about for the, for today next week? Whatever. I have to write it down and yeah. On my master's they have an app. So you could actually like take the, you could take courses on the app and everything, and I don't do it that way. I do it on desktop. And then I write down absolutely everything. Like I take, I have like, love that I have like four progress note, um, process notebooks that are just filled with notes. It's just notes all day long. So I know it's a digital person. I'm not supposed to be analog, but I am deeply analog on certain things.

Maxx Blank (12:09):

Now there's, there's seriously something about writing it down. I, I also, I have a notebook that's like a fancy, like, whatever mm-hmm <affirmative> and I write just my to-do list and then just you look at it and think it's a, I've always got some master plans in there and then you open it up and it looks like my child was just like crossing through. It's just me, you know?

Christina Garnett (12:25):

Yep. That's it's like scribbles.

Maxx Blank (12:28):

I find that I have to write the important things down. I just, I can't type it. It just doesn't flow outta me properly. Yeah. And get like solidified,

Christina Garnett (12:36):

You know, I, I also really like the idea that, because like on the page, it's coupled by like timeframes. Yeah. That I can really, I can visually dictate how my day is going. Like how much is left, how much is UNS scribbled? That for me, that really shows me like, am I where I thought I was gonna be, maybe I missed something or is this gonna be one of those days where things are gonna have to, it's just gonna be a late night. So I find that, yeah. I find that like the pleasure of being able to scribble out one thing, but also be able to visually dictate what's left. What's not there. Yeah. Because my brain almost thrives in the scribbles. Yeah. Like the success

Rabah Rahil (13:19):

Is in the, put that on t-shirt that's great. Success is in the scribbles. I, I, I couldn't agree more. I, I, I, to your guys' point, I think there is something magical about pen or pencil to paper. There's something weird about it. Yeah. And for to-do list, it's super helpful for me because I, my, my brain will bite off more than my time, time blocks can chew. Um, and so in a finite world with paper, like you can only put so much on a paper, even if you're writing tiny, whereas on digital, it's kind of infinite, right. You just add another line, add another line. And, and to the kids out there that don't know, and not all phones were iPhones. And there was actually a point in time that Christine and I are joking where you could actually angrily close your phone to hang up. Oh, good. And man, it was so, oh, no satisfactory feeling and you didn't break your phone cuz now I like to get that. You have to like throw the phone or whatever. Now you can just have the anger hang up. So

Christina Garnett (14:11):

It's, it's an emotional exclamation point that was lost

Rabah Rahil (14:16):

So well I love it. Okay. One more hard hitting, uh, question in the main segment. Why is Marvel better than DC?

Christina Garnett (14:26):

Okay. I have to caveat this <laugh> I love bat girl and I love the Batman universe more than anything that Marvel has ever created. That being said, oh, that being said, Marvel knows their story better than DC does.

Rabah Rahil (14:43):


Christina Garnett (14:44):

They understand that there is this. Even, even before Kevin Feige, although he is definitely like on a different level, um, there is this appreciation for the past and there is this appreciation for how things have been built over time. It speaks really highly of how it got started. A lot of people know about iron man and captain American and all this other stuff and how it's really built the foundation for the MCU. But those weren't those weren't their Supermans and Batmans like that. Wasn't their top tier people. They went with the B squad and they built the B squad like guardians of the galaxy should not have worked. That is such a deep cut. <laugh> like should not have worked. And I think you can see. And so what you're seeing now is we've seen these characters adapt. The thing that I can say is equal across DC and Marvel is that the cartoons have been more faithful.

Christina Garnett (15:49):

The cartoons have gotten it better. X-Men Batman, the animated series, just like perfect. Absolutely perfect. It wouldn't change anything. Um, I think that the Sony movies or not Sony Fox movies for when we're looking at like X-Men and things like that, I feel like they really tried to focus on specific storylines and specific people. And they really lost the, the characters and the rich stories in the process. And they weren't able to give it the time that it deserved, which is incredibly for me is sad because those stories are really rich, great example. The dark Phoenix saga is not a one Mo movie story. Mm-hmm <affirmative> it should never be a one movie story that needs to be a trilogy that happens over multiple time periods. That story needs to be told. And it, it, it honestly can't be told in one, in one specific shoot, Kevin Figgy gets this.

Christina Garnett (16:46):

He was building up to Thanos for 10 years. All right. Like he understands, there's a slow burn and there's a build. And for you to really tell these impactful stories, you're really gonna have to take it slow and build those little pieces. They also spent too much time on Wolverine because, and now granted, I love Hugh Jackman's Wolverine. It's technically not cartoon cartoon or Marvel or sure. Or comic accurate, but did a great job. But because of that, because of their focus on who they wanted him to be, they got Scott Summers wrong. Scott Summers in the movies is horrible. Absolutely horrible. But he's a total badass in the comic books. He's a true leader. He is kind of the captain America that we know today, or we think of, but for the X-Men he was a leader, he was respected. He was beloved. Like he had his drama with his brother and that really kind of catalyzed like what he was gonna be once all that stuff happened.

Christina Garnett (17:39):

But that story hasn't really been told effectively because we focused on Wolverine and then, but then we didn't really lean into what Wolverine could even do do personally, for me until Logan, Logan's a masterpiece. Logan is such a masterpiece to me. If you ask me for what is my favorite all time movie of any of any comment book, I'm gonna say Logan, because it wasn't afraid to go dark it. Wasn't afraid to show the human side of these characters. Sure. But it also, wasn't afraid to show the consequences of these actions and really be able to lean into it and understand that. All right, you've loved this character for such a long time. Now you're gonna have to go on this ride with me. I haven't seen that with DC yet. I hope that with the Batman, we will get that because I feel like you can a like, I feel like a lot of the Batman movies have been done correctly, but there's pieces that we're missing. Like, I, I want us to lean away from cat woman and from the joker, because he has a rogues gallery. There's such a rich history. There there's an opportunity for you to tell some really rich stories. So obviously cat woman's in, in the Batman, but they're doing, they're doing the Rogue's gallery. They're really showcasing that and leaning into that rich history, which I'm really excited about. Um, DC shows though. Doom patrol. Excellent.

Rabah Rahil (19:01):


Christina Garnett (19:01):

Okay. And they got Cyclops, right? Neither, neither the justice league by Jos Whedon or the justice league. Beza Snyder got Cyclops, right? Sorry, not sorry. Didn't give him justice. Didn't show his dad correctly. Doom patrol get Cyclops. Right? So if you're a Cyclops fan and you wanna see him done justice, you need to watch a doom patrol. Absolutely fantastic.

Rabah Rahil (19:22):

Christina, you need a YouTube channel or a podcast that, that was deep. That was deep. I love it. That I love when people get nerdy about nerdy stuff. Like that's one of my favorite things I can

Christina Garnett (19:32):

Do that I can talk about Marvel in DC for a very

Rabah Rahil (19:35):

Long time. <laugh> I could tell very eloquently. May I add, okay, folks, this is why you bought the ticket. Of course, we were not gonna bring on the queen of marketing Twitter without asking her some questions about community. So this is kind of our value add segment. So Christina, let me hit you with kind of the first dabbling of it if starting a community. So this is kind of one of, from one of your articles, quote, if starting a community is like gardening, building a community at scale is like maintaining a fan base. Can you expand on that?

Christina Garnett (20:03):

Absolutely. So whenever you were growing and I think, and I'm gonna have to get nerdy here again,

Rabah Rahil (20:11):


Christina Garnett (20:11):

It star wars mm-hmm <affirmative> is a really great example. So they have this foundation of these hardcore fans. Mm-hmm <affirmative> absolutely beloved. Everyone has their favorite character. Everyone has their favorite like moment. I'm a Luke girl, mark. Camel's my favorite human on Twitter that will never change like OG king. We, we stand. Um, but when they, every time they do a new iteration of movies, it's it's for money. I mean, we're not stupid, right? But it's also to be able to garner a new audience. So we want younger people. We want new people to sell toys to we have new characters, new IPS. So now we have all these new opportunities to sell new toys, cuz toys, especially for comic books is where a lot of the money comes from. Really. If you look at merchandise, if you look at the merchandising money from Spiderman merch, that is why Spiderman is the most priceless IP for Marvel. Because that's where if you look at like all the merch that sold for all of the characters, mm-hmm, <affirmative> like, Spider-Man just like curb stomps, everybody else. Like it's not even close great

Maxx Blank (21:16):

Reference. I always figure like Superman, you know, I don't know why, but I'm surprised by

Christina Garnett (21:21):

Spiderman. So Spiderman's huge. Spiderman's always been their most popular. So if you look at the merch, anytime you have these new franchises, you're looking at not only do we need new butts in the seats, but we need new people to buy merch. We need new people to talk about us. And also if you're, if you believe like star wars and all of these more established franchises, like our audience a little bit older, so maybe they're not gonna talk about it as much online or maybe they do, but they're not talking on the channels that we want them to talk about. You're constantly trying to reinvent. Um, and we see this, we see this with all of movies. People are trying to understand, like, we need to have more representation. We need to make sure that like, there are storylines that if we tell now they're problematic.

Christina Garnett (22:01):

But if we told them like 20 years ago, they that not as many people would've been upset. So not only are they having to increase their fan base, but they're having to do so, understanding that sensibilities have changed, have shifted quite significantly. And so, and also things are democratized. So I can watch a movie now without having, having to go to the theater, I can check out spoilers on Twitter without going to rotten tomatoes. I can find a lot of what I want to find online without having to find it in those traditional spaces. And that exists because those fans or critics even are in those spaces. So if star wars has a garden, has that foundation, everyone's beloved. There's gonna be Darth Vaders at ComicCon until the end of time, right? It's just how it is. You have these iconic characters, that's iconic IP.

Christina Garnett (22:51):

But as you scale that, and you add new stories and you add new opportunities. Now you not only have to scale, but you have to make sure that you don't lose that fan base. You, you have to, you have to create a new drive without alienating the old drive. And that's exactly what happened with star wars. That's exactly what happened with the new ones. They didn't feel like they were being listened to. They didn't like the stories that were being told the disjointed stories that were being told. And then when they criticized Marvel for it, I mean, they criticized star wars for it. Then they were basically called toxic fans. So that's what caused a lot of those things. So it's a perfect example of what we're seeing. And then what happens later on you have the Mandalorian, right? What does it do? It taps into the nostalgia pieces that these fans loved, baby, yada, baby Yoda.

Christina Garnett (23:46):

We have this, we have this sand planet. We have these Western vibes. We have this lone figure. Who's searching for all these things. We have a beloved, we have, um, bub effect coming back. We have all of these. It feels child favorite. Yeah. You, what you wind up having is if the, if the new movies were an ode to new fans, what you have with Amanda Lorean is a love letter to the ones who thought that they were forgotten. And it very much is this celebration of these, the beats. This is how this is gonna work. This is what you wanted to see. And so, and, and you can tell that they didn't really know if it was gonna work because of baby Yoda. Right. Because they kept it a secret, which I think is a brilliant idea. Yeah. But they didn't have their merch ready.

Christina Garnett (24:41):

I just, for Christmas. Yeah. Which was like, y'all didn't know biggest miss y'all didn't know. Cause I would've bought all of it. I mean, I have like four different baby Yodas of like all shapes and sizes. Cuz like that's my baby. And I was like, I would defend him at all costs <laugh> but that's the thing is we're gonna do this. It's still a risk. And we hope that people are gonna love this, but we don't know. And so you can tell like them keeping a secret, not a tell them, not having it, ready them, not having them March ready for Christmas. Huge tell because that's not something you miss that's that's a miss. Um, so things like that. So it really comes down to, yes, you have your garden, but as you scale, you're balancing, you have to 10, the garden, you have to tend the garden.

Christina Garnett (25:26):

You have to figure out how can I attract this new fan base? How can I make them feel special? How can I also, how can I attract something that they've had like star wars hasn't been hiding, right? So you're not trying to attract new fans. You're trying to attract new fans that saw what was currently available. And we're like, nah, that's not for me. I need something different. So you have this balancing act of how do I get new love, but also not alienate the old love. And so when you're scaling a community, it's the same thing. Imagine if you go to a party, right? And I use like party examples all the time for community. But imagine you go to the party you get there and your best friend is the host. You get there, they hug you. They're so excited to see you.

Christina Garnett (26:09):

Hey like thank you so much for coming. It's amazing. Like now the party stars like da, da, da, da. They get you through. They get you through the door. They take your coat. They show you where the food is. They show you where wherever, like here's everything you would ever need. Yep. Now imagine if someone else shows up like an hour later and they get the same response from you, from that person from the, from your best friend, how do you feel? I thought I was your best friend. Yeah. I thought I was the one that was gonna get outta the love. Like who was this new person and why are you giving them all this attention? And I'm still here. Same thing with the community. You have to constantly make other people, new people feel welcome. But you also have to make sure that those people who've been with you for a while, who maybe were the first people that were, that were in the community that have been tried and true.

Christina Garnett (26:57):

You need to, you need to make sure they're getting love too. And so there's this Fran idea of you can't please everybody. And we all know that. Put you gotta try and, and you need to know their motivations. Yeah. If I know your motivation is you need attention, then I'm gonna make sure you have attention. If someone else's motivation is they wanna make sure that they're tagged in things or they wanna make sure that they're praised or they get badges or they get whatever I need to understand and make sure that they're getting their motivations met. So what you're doing is mm-hmm, <affirmative>, you're feeding multiple people at the same time, understanding that they don't necessarily need the same things, but they both expect to get what they need in order to stay in order for it to be worth it to them.

Rabah Rahil (27:41):

I love that. Awesome. I love

Maxx Blank (27:43):

That. It's interesting to the whole time you're speaking about this, I'm like thinking how cuz I mean we're working with direct to consumer brands and some of 'em are, you know, I, I think that a lot of DDC brands, I guess from my, from my sort of experience, there's so much emphasis on new customers, new customers, new customers. There's not so much emphasis on what you currently have. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and how to keep them happy. So I'm in my while, while you're talking, like how do we kinda relate that? And it's, it's very much in a similar vein mm-hmm <affirmative> how do you take some of those? Yeah. From a classic brand that's been around for how long the star wars been around for.

Christina Garnett (28:17):

It's been a while. It's like seventies.

Rabah Rahil (28:19):

Yeah. Seventies, I think. Yeah.

Maxx Blank (28:20):

So yeah.

Rabah Rahil (28:22):

60 some 60 some years. Yeah.

Christina Garnett (28:24):

But that's the, that's the beautiful thing about it though. And that's why, that's why I love advocacy so much because that answers that problem. Yeah. Because you don't wanna alienate the, the, the people who've been with you for years who love you, who are passionate, who know, who sometimes know the product better than you do. Mm-hmm <affirmative> mm-hmm <affirmative> how can you empower them to drive towards those new customers? Sure. Towards that new awareness. So not only are you saying like, you know, I need new customers because of course I do. I need, I need new eyes on this. But what you're able to do is because they've been with you for so long because they're passionate because they love you. You're able to say like here's a seat at the table. Here's how we get to be a part of you. That's why referral programs are so are such a fantastic underutilized tool. Because what you're doing is you are empowering the people who are already there to be a part of your growth. And now when you grow, they take on that success as ownership. I love it. I was a part of this. I referred 50 people to them. I did this. And so now they feel like your growth is a part of them. So they don't feel like you left them. They feel like they got to tag along.

Maxx Blank (29:38):

That's nice.

Christina Garnett (29:39):

And so it's a completely different emotional pull. And now, now they wanna be that fan. They wanna be that ambassador. They want it because now they see what happens. And so they love you. They want you to be successful. They just wanna be a part of it. And so you let them be a part of it. And now when you grow now, they get to be a part of the success story. And so then your motivation for them is you continue to make them feel special. You continue to make them feel heard. And so the one question I ask myself daily, when I'm, when I'm working with advocates, is, is this gonna make them feel special? I love that. Is this, does this feel like it's extra? Does this? Or does this just feel like something like there's difference between giving me what I expect and, and delighting me there.

Christina Garnett (30:28):

Yes, totally different vibe there. I'm not delighted by getting what I expected. I'm delighted by giving more than I expected. So how can you surprise them? Make them feel special. How can you delight them? And it's the little things like you would be shocked. Everyone thinks that you have to like do these like big, massive things. But it's not. It's the little moments. It's those little moments. It's, it's sharing their successes. It's hyping them up. It's making sure that they feel like they're a part of the program. It's, it's the little things where you heard them. That's gonna be, that's gonna be really crucial. One of the things I love too is using those people as beta testers. Right. And using them as a feedback loop because they love you. And they probably have negative things to say, because no product is perfect. Right. But they would only tell you what they hate when they're mad.

Christina Garnett (31:20):

Yeah. And they probably wouldn't do it to your face. They'd probably do it online and be like, oh, I've been with this brand for so many years and they did this and I can't stand. So you don't want that. What you wanna do is you wanna empower them to be a part of a feedback loop. So now they feel like they get to be a part of it. And so now if there's a new product offering, you give, or there's a new, like great example. There's a guy on Twitter today who shouted at HubSpot because there is a change that he's been asking for for years, the update came today. He saw it and he was like, they finally did it. They finally, this is my update. It's yeah. And he thanked, he thanked HubSpot. He thanked the HubSpot developers for listening. And he also thanked the community for advocating for that change. So in that one tweet, you hear that HubSpot listened. HubSpot gave him what he wanted. He's happy about it. And he got to shout out fellow HubSpot users all in one tweet.

Rabah Rahil (32:14):

Yeah. Gold

Christina Garnett (32:15):

It's gold. It's gold. Yeah. And so when you're given the opportunity to, with your biggest fans and users to say, Hey, we know we're not perfect, but we wanna know how we can improve ourselves. We wanna know how we can be better. Where are the opportunities for support? Where are the opportunities to improve suggestions? That is such a really great way to have them to, to really amplify any negative feelings in a positive, productive manner. So now you can say like, we never thought of that. We need to put that in the roadmap. Or we didn't realize like there's so many times you'll and I loved, I love like practitioner library stuff where people show tutorials of how they use things, because they don't always use it the way that you expect them to use it.

Rabah Rahil (32:58):


Christina Garnett (32:59):

And if they don't expect you to use it the way that you expect them to use it, then they're gonna find problems that you never saw when you tested it because you didn't test it the way they are using it.

Rabah Rahil (33:09):

Totally agree.

Christina Garnett (33:11):

And so giving them an opportunity to shine, giving them an opportunity to be in that space where now they get to be a part of like, you get, they're gonna refer people to you. So now you get to grow, right. But in a feedback loop, now you get to improve. So now you're a part of the improvement. And now when they make that change, it's a change that they fought for. It's an idea that they gave you. It's an opportunity for them to have liquidity. And that is such a powerful, like, talk about creating a brand bond. That's a brand bond because now when someone mentions that you're gonna be like, yeah, that was my idea. Like I, I told 'em they should do that. So all of those things are just incredibly priceless. It's just, if you can really figure out those emotional levers that you need to pull it's and just think about how would, how would you feel? How, what would make you feel special? What motivates you? How do you like some people just wanna have their tweet liked. Other people wanna be in a webinar. Others would be fine being beta testers. Others just want swag, but you need to understand that they all have different motivations and they all have, they all have reasons to stay and then they have reasons to love you more. You just have to figure out what you need to do to earn that.

Maxx Blank (34:28):


Rabah Rahil (34:28):

<affirmative> I love that. That's fantastic. There's actually something called the Cano model of quality. Um, that gets into basically what you're describing in terms of like a car. For example, if I make the brakes a little bit better, like that's an expectation of mine, right? I expect the car to stop, but if I put custom tire caps or air caps on there, you're delighted by that. Not only that I don't tell you about it, you have to find it and discover the feature. So delights, this really unique function of almost connoisseurship like the more, you know, the product, the more delight you can internalize. It's almost like if anybody out there has watched the rest development, rest development can be consumed in any kind of way. You can watch whatever season, but there's tons of little Easter eggs and jokes that kind of go to the broader point that you're making Christina of that, that empathy, that connection that I'm on the inside, it's the inside joke because you guys didn't get it, but I did. So that attention payment, if you will, that I put in the back is now getting kind of, you know, distributed and now you're getting your, your dividends from it. Um, so I, I absolutely love that.

Maxx Blank (35:33):

It's huge in, in that another more like another real life example that we're experiencing as a business, as a new business is that our biggest growth is coming from development. And the development is being dictated by the feedback loops mm-hmm <affirmative> yeah. Of, you know, our biggest fans. Yeah. So they're the ones that feel empowered to share it. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and to advocate. Yeah. It's huge. And, and I think product development that's, that's like the key, so,

Rabah Rahil (35:59):

Okay. And to Christina's point too, looking at what people are doing versus asking what, what they're, what they're doing is so important because, um, there's another kind of framework I'm fascinated with called jobs to be done. And, uh, ultimately in that, when you're interviewing the person, you ultimately want look for the hack where it's like, what are you hacking together? That is so clever. Why are we not doing it like that? Because they have the need, they're the kind of quote, unquote boots on the ground actually doing it. And so, yeah, I absolutely love it. All right, Christina, you made it to the last segment da, so this is our rapid fire segment. Max is gonna run it. Max, go ahead. Take it away.

Maxx Blank (36:45):

All right. Uh, Ted lasso, overrated or underrated.

Christina Garnett (36:48):

Oh, I love Ted lasso. It's underrated. Oh, okay. He can win. Every warden is still be underrated. I love, I love Ted lasso with my Jason today. Cuz like I told someone today he's the, every man's Ryan Reynolds. <laugh> because he's just as funny and he, but he's a little bit more approachable.

Rabah Rahil (37:07):

Not as jacked,

Christina Garnett (37:08):

Not as jacked. All I love, I love Jasons today. So yeah, underrated always

Maxx Blank (37:12):

Got it. Okay. Space exploration, overrated or underrated.

Christina Garnett (37:18):

I doing it. Underrated motivations for doing it overrated. We have a lot of problems on this planet that we need to solve first mm-hmm <affirmative>. And I, I think that we could be using that money. Like as long as there's people who are dying and starving on this planet, I feel like more, some of that money should be going towards that too, because that is a lasting problem. I do believe that space exploration is incredibly important though. So love, love, space exploration, but there's a reason why all the billionaires are trying to get off. Like I I'd like some I'd like the normies to have help. Like let's, let's deal with lot of the issues on this planet first.

Maxx Blank (37:55):

That's a good point. That's hilarious. Okay. NFTs, overrated or underrated.

Christina Garnett (38:01):

I think they're underrated. I think what you're seeing is you're seeing this new, you're seeing a mixture of multiple, um, microcosms. You're seeing cryptocurrency blockchain decentralization. You're seeing all of those, but then you're also mixing it with an art scene and a community scene and a collector ability. That's the thing that blockchain hasn't had. Yeah. Was this collectability, this, this, that, that little, that little cell in the, your brain that says you need to collect all the Pokemon cards. This has been activated now. So completely underrated. I think it's gonna be interesting to see how we continue to see this. Um, I would look at it from like conservatively. I would look at it from like an art model. It's not any different than the guys who are on sneakers app trying to collect sneakers and have an entire wall. So baseline, it's a collectible in the future though. If we continue to see blockchain being acceptable, being cross, cross categories, I mean, we have, you can have bonds. Why can't you like you have paper bonds. Why can't you have digital assets? It just looks like art it's it looks like, it looks like a melting zombie ape phase, but it's still an asset, but it's still an asset.

Maxx Blank (39:12):

It's good. It's it's good for any category. It needs to be adapted. You know, it's a good thing.

Christina Garnett (39:18):

Yeah. And I think, I think it also celebrates something too that we're seeing is this really embracing of the creator? Yeah. And so this is one more way that illustrators and, and other artists can be able to find out, be able to show off what they're doing. Um, and I, I, I think there's a lot of opportunity left in NFT, so definitely underrated.

Maxx Blank (39:38):

Hmm. I think you answered these questions, but we're gonna do it again. Best Marvel character.

Christina Garnett (39:44):

Best Marvel character. Okay.

Maxx Blank (39:46):

Or did you do DC earlier? I'm I get them confused.

Christina Garnett (39:49):

BA that girl's my favorite is my favorite, um, is my favorite DC character. Angela is actually my favorite. I have a thing for redheads obviously. Um, Angela's my favorite Marvel character, but she's not gonna be in the movies because they blended her character with hell. So that was kind of a part of it. She's actually the angel sister of Thor who was kidnapped and taken to an angel world. The reason I love her and she was created by Neil Damon. I, and I love,

Speaker 4 (40:15):

You know, all this you're incredible. She was incredible.

Christina Garnett (40:18):

She was originally, um, she was originally in the spawn, um, in the spawn comic books. And then she was later, um, acquired by Marvel, but she's Neil Gaman and he's my favorite living writer. So anything Neil Gaman writes, any characters he creates are I'm gonna be biased towards

Maxx Blank (40:34):

Solid. Okay. Now what's your best? Uh, your favorite Marvel movie.

Christina Garnett (40:39):

Favorite Marvel movie. I can't really count Logan cuz that was Fox. Um, I'm gonna say winter soldier. I absolutely loved winter soldier. Okay. And honestly that was the best black woman, uh, black widow movie too. She was far better in that one than the black widow movie. So if we're gonna count black widow movie, that's also, um, winter soldier.

Maxx Blank (41:00):

I think we know this answer coming up, but it's in here. Community building overrated or underrated?

Christina Garnett (41:06):

Underrated. Hyper, hyper underrated.

Maxx Blank (41:09):

<laugh> oh, I'm with you. Yeah. Vincent Vango, overrated or underrated.

Christina Garnett (41:14):

Oh I love Vincent underrated

Maxx Blank (41:17):

Favor. Favorite social network.

Christina Garnett (41:18):

Twitter always gonna be Twitter.

Maxx Blank (41:22):

<laugh> uh, favorite meal and why?

Christina Garnett (41:27):

Um, I love, um, chili poblanos, which is where they take a pepper. They carve out all of the seeds. Yeah. Stuff it with cheese. And then they dye, they fry an egg batter. That's my go to absolutely a absolutely adore chili. Poblanos.

Speaker 5 (41:40):


Maxx Blank (41:42):

Never heard of it. Happy to learn something new.

Rabah Rahil (41:44):

Yeah. Get to the it's Tmax. Southwest. It's delicious.

Christina Garnett (41:48):

It's really good. Yeah. Yeah. It's excellent.

Maxx Blank (41:51):

Favorite place travel and why?

Christina Garnett (41:54):

Um, I love, I love Scotland and Burra specifically.

Speaker 5 (41:57):

Oh cool.

Maxx Blank (41:59):

And favorite way to spend your time

Christina Garnett (42:02):


Rabah Rahil (42:04):

Love it.

Maxx Blank (42:06):

Favorite follow on Twitter. I think you mentioned it.

Christina Garnett (42:08):

Well, I, I love, I love more camel. He doesn't follow me. I follow him though.

Rabah Rahil (42:13):

<laugh> it's all that matters

Christina Garnett (42:14):

He just had, and he just had a birthday. So happy birthday to, to the joker slash Luke

Rabah Rahil (42:19):

Happy birthday, mark.

Christina Garnett (42:21):


Maxx Blank (42:22):

If you could have dinner with any three people dead or alive, who would it be and why?

Christina Garnett (42:30):

Um, wow.

Maxx Blank (42:32):

If you need a little, yeah, we can, you need more time there. Right?

Speaker 5 (42:35):

I do need more

Rabah Rahil (42:36):

Time. I, but this is rapid fire. This is, this is why you're on the clock.

Christina Garnett (42:40):

Okay. One

Rabah Rahil (42:40):

Is the sludge is gonna fall.

Christina Garnett (42:42):

One is Ken Levine. He's the writer and creator of Bioshock because I absolutely adore Bioshock

Rabah Rahil (42:47):


Christina Garnett (42:49):

Um, actually I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go with my, with my dream list. They're all alive. Ken Levine, gamma. Deltoro Neil Gaon that's my three. And then I'm gonna talk them. The whole, the whole meal is to pitch them to do something together.

Speaker 5 (43:03):

<laugh> cool.

Rabah Rahil (43:05):

I love it. I love it. Yeah. We've never heard the goal going and that's amazing, but that's great. A bunch of creators there. So that would be a super fun dinner. Christina, this has been so much fun. I know you're doing a bunch of cool stuff at HubSpot. You wanna tell us about it?

Christina Garnett (43:20):

Absolutely. So I, um, we have a program at HubSpot for advocates called hub fans. If you are a user of HubSpot love HubSpot, um, would like to be featured, would like to, um, take challenges or in points, badges opportunities to network with other HubSpot users. We would love to have you. We also have inbounds coming up in two weeks from October 12th through the 14th. It is virtual and we have, um, powerhouse tickets, but we also have free starter passes and Oprah is talking at inbounds. You get to see Oprah for free. So

Rabah Rahil (43:50):

Maybe even get a car.

Christina Garnett (43:52):

Exactly. <laugh> go to, um, you can go to inbound.com to get tickets.

Rabah Rahil (43:57):

Beautiful. Okay. inbound.com. You're on the bird app at that Christina G we're on the bird app at tri triple whale. Um, if you wanna get involved with triple whale, one login, one dashboard, all the metrics plus mobile app, go to try triple well.com. I am Raba max. Christina, thank you so much for your time. This was incredible. Really, really appreciate it. And uh, we will talk soon. See everybody on the flip.

Speaker 5 (44:21):


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