Noah Tucker (00:00):

If I tried to do, you know, build social snowball and also start an agency on the side and also do consulting and this and that, like I would fail at everything. And, and this is what happened to me many times over and over again when I was starting out.

Rabah Rahil (00:18):

All right, folks, we got a banger for you today. Episode 40, the affiliate fishing out, Noah Tucker, the young gun coming in. Noah. How are you?

Noah Tucker (00:28):

Amazing. Thank you for having me Raba.

Rabah Rahil (00:30):

Oh, of course, of course. And so I'm actually in a different setting. I still am in Austin. I'm not at marketing HQ. I had a, some car troubles, so I actually had to do the pod from home today, but I still am in Austin. Where's this podcast find you?

Noah Tucker (00:44):

This is finding me actually in London. I'm at an Airbnb right now. Uh, traveling around Europe a little bit. Yeah.

Rabah Rahil (00:50):

Oh, wow. The international man of mystery. You're living the life, man. You're like, that's incredible. That's cool. You originally, were you home based out of though LA

Noah Tucker (00:58):

So I, yeah, I was in LA when we first connected the lease there actually just ended. So I'm, uh, I sold like everything I own literally except for two suitcases. And now I'm in Europe for the time being. Um, but seriously LA was, yeah, LA was just, uh, LA was only a spot for a year prior to that I was living in Miami and then I originally grew up like with my family and went, you know, high school and everything was, uh, in New Jersey actually.

Rabah Rahil (01:20):

Oh, wow. So you went coast south and then coast.

Noah Tucker (01:23):

Exactly.

Rabah Rahil (01:24):

Interesting. Exactly. Very cool, man. That's awesome. What's on the list for, uh, the travels. So you're in London. Where are you gonna go

Noah Tucker (01:32):

Next? Yeah, London. I mean, I'm not sure Europe honestly is like, I, I feel like at home whenever I'm in Europe, but like, I, I definitely wanna see a lot of areas that I haven't been to yet. So, um, Amsterdam is definitely on the list. Um, yep. Some of my favorite places that I've already been is like Barcelona. Uh LIBO yep. So, yep. Honestly just, uh, taking it day by day, keeping the schedule open. We'll see.

Rabah Rahil (01:53):

I love it. Tommy. Our, uh, head of social is actually in Barcelona right now.

Noah Tucker (01:57):

I saw that. I saw that for sure.

Rabah Rahil (01:59):

Maybe you guys living your best life. Amazing. So what did you, you started social snowball and we'll get to that in the value add segment, but how, tell me how that like came about, like how did you wanna start a company? Cause you're, you're fairly young. What are you? You're mid twenties. 23,

Noah Tucker (02:13):

Late

Rabah Rahil (02:13):

Twenties. Yeah. 23, 23, early, early twenties then super, super young. And so you started your company, you're traveling the world. Like how did you, uh, you know, work into this place of, this is super what most people wanna do with their life, especially in the early twenties. It's fantastic.

Noah Tucker (02:27):

Yeah. I mean, so for a, a very long time and I mean, I say very long, I mean like five years, but for my lifetime, a very long time, um, leading up to building social snowball, I was still kind of involved in the e-commerce world, but on the merchant side. Um, yep. So literally right after I graduated high school like that summer before I went to my, uh, freshman year at university of Miami, I, uh, literally just discovered Shopify. Like I had a friend who was building stores and drop shipping and he was like, showing me how he had it set up. And I was like, oh, this is super cool. Um, you know, at the time I was trying to make money, but I hadn't heard of any sort of online business. So I was just working on a fishing boat, like slaving away, 13 hour shift, um, and making like a couple hundred bucks a day, which was great.
But this, you know, this friend of mine who was, um, building these stores and just like using organic marketing techniques to get, uh, traffic was ma also making a couple hundred bucks a day. And I was like, wow, if I could do this, like, I'll quit my fishing job. And I will do this full time. This is, this looks so fun. And I've always been like a bit of an entrepreneurial spirit. Like I've been like, you know, selling things on eBay. And like, you know, when I was super young, I would like draw things and sell to my parents. Like it's always definitely been in my blood, but I never had like the opportunity to turn it it into anything real U until I discovered like building stores on Shopify. So started building stores, um, you know, was kind of just playing around with organic traffic methods, um, was building ambassador programs, which is kind of how I started dipping my feet into affiliate.
Um, but I was, you know, building ambassador programs, doing things very manually, DMing people, trying to give them discount code for them to share with their friends, like very time consuming, very not efficient. Um, but I did that for, you know, like a year, um, you know, went to school at U Miami, um, discovered Facebook ads, um, started building more stores, started to get a little more advanced in the marketing techniques I was using, um, and things. And I, you know, I started to make money at some point, you know, some point in my freshman year at U Miami. I like had a month where I had a store that did like $30,000 and maybe like 10 K in profit. And at the time I was like, what, like 17 years old, you know, I was, I was this shit. I was buying everyone numbers.
I was like buying the drinks. I was like, you know, a freshman in college. So nice. It was, it was like really, really an exciting time. Um, and then I kind of just got hooked on it. You know, once I got a taste of success, I was like, okay, this is really cool. This is what I wanna do. So for the next, you know, I ended up dropping outta school, um, after that year. Cause I was like, you know what? Like, I don't wanna pursue what I was studying. Um, or at least not what the degree that I was getting was going to get me. So I was like, you know what? This is, I'm having success as this. I'm making some money. I want to like dive all into this. Um, love it. So for the next like four years, I stayed in Miami, um, just not in school and I just, you know, kept refining what I was learning.
So I got like really heavy into the marketing side of things, heavy into media buying. Um, and I was always, you know, I was always building affiliate programs for any story that I would build myself or, you know, I was doing this as a consulting service for other stories down the road, too. Yep. Um, affiliate programs, you know, which were at the time, what I was building was more of an ambassador program. I wanted to disclose this is not like the publisher affiliate model. This is very like customer and owned audience focused. Um, so I was always, that was always like, uh, in my repertoire of what I would add to a store that I was building myself or that I was working with. So, you know, I played with really every single affiliate and referral tool that existed in the Shopify ecosystem at the time.
Um, and I never had any intention of getting into the tech side of things, but after like many years of just being frustrated with what existed out there, um, you know, from a lack of functionality perspective from the outdated interface perspective, from just a lack of automation in general, with all the tools that were out there, it, it, I, I was very, I just couldn't, I couldn't build the type of program that I wanted to build, um, with the tech that existed. And I would try to make workarounds for that using like zap beer and connecting it to like Clavio and, and forms. And I, and I, I was able to like automate some level of what I wanted to accomplish, but it was obviously not product ties and it was not something that could, could do everything that I wanted, you know, obviously very limited fun, um, functionality can be created with no code, at least back then maybe now it's different.
Um, yeah. So, you know, after like, you know, four or five years or whatever of dealing with all these outdated tools and being very frustrated with myself, I obviously had built up like a decent network of other e-commerce founders and operators by that time. Um, and you know, I would talk to them and it seemed to be a very unanimous, like mindset that everyone was looking for a better affiliate tool. Um, and you know, after me being so heavily involved in like the customer affiliate space, referral space, um, and hearing from so many other founders that they wanted something better, I was like, wow, like maybe this could be the next step for me, cuz you know, mind you at the time. Like I hadn't really built anything super sustainable, you know, a lot of these were just drop shipping stores and I was just like making money, helping other people with marketing. So it wasn't like I was building anything bigger than myself or anything I was super proud of. So I always knew that I, that like these e-commerce stores, I was building was a stepping zone into something else. I just didn't really know what that was gonna be. Um, and after just, you know, so many years of dealing with these outdated tools and talking to other founders, it seemed like the perfect idea. So that was kind of the light bulb moment for social snowball originally.

Rabah Rahil (07:29):

How cool man, what a crazy journey. How was, uh, is, was the fishing boats? Like the things that, what, what was it the greatest catcher? What's the thing.

Noah Tucker (07:38):

Oh, dead. These cats, deadly cats. Deadly is who you, it wasn't. I wish that would be fun. That would be crazy. No, this was like, this was like, you know, like you and your, your buddies can like grab a pack of beers and like go on a boat and go fishing for the day you pay like 150 bucks. They give you all the tackle, all the BA they cut the fish for you. Oh I was the guy baiting your hooks, cutting the fish. Like I was the first, the first may or whatever on the boat, but it was gosh, 13 hour shifts. I'd have to wake up at like before five in the morning. Yeah. I'd have to be at the dock at five in the morning, which is like 20 minute drive from my house. It was exhausting. I mean, fishing is something I still love to this day. So I was like, oh, oh you do. Okay. I do. Yeah. Fishing is fun. But at the time I was like, oh, I got a job in fishing. And then my job will be fun. Turned out after 13 hours of helping other people catch fish. It's not fun. So definitely wasn't super, super sustainable.

Rabah Rahil (08:23):

Yeah. That's incredible too, that you had the energy to build while doing that because that's challenging right. Where it's like, that's where most people get into where you, you, it's just such a time suck when you have this, you know, you gotta put food on the table kind of thing. Um, what a cool story, man. That's incredible. How was the U good times?

Noah Tucker (08:41):

Oh, the U was great. Yeah. I mean I did drop out, so I might sound hypocritical when I'm saying this stuff, but I love university of Miami. I don't regret a second of time being there. It was unbelievably fun. The people I met there to this day are still my best friends. It just, college just wasn't the right path for me. So like I had to, I had to leave, but nothing against you, Miami I'm a can at heart. Like I still bleed, uh, green and orange. Like it's, it's uh, it's definitely an amazing school. So like no regrets for going through that year. I'm very happy I did.

Rabah Rahil (09:09):

How fun I'm actually going to your stomping grounds, uh, next, next week, two weeks, uh, for geek out. Nice. Be in Miami. Yeah. Very,

Noah Tucker (09:16):

Very cool. Very

Rabah Rahil (09:17):

What a crazy cool start. So in this time period, like what is kind of the best, or I guess now what has been the best and worst advice you've ever received?

Noah Tucker (09:28):

I mean, I feel like the worst advice I feel and I mean, this might be different for different people, but I feel like a lot of people have told me and this is, this is also good advice, but in certain contexts, like, yep. I'm not even sure exactly how to word this, but there's people who do a very good job at doing many things at once. Yep. And you know, people will tell you like, oh, you wanna diversify how you're making money, have multiple streams, yada, yada, all that stuff, which is true. But for me, like, you know, right out of high school, like, and even to this day, like young and figuring out life and, and you know, not having everything sorted, if I, and I tried to do this and it failed a lot, but it, if I tried to do, you know, build social snowball and also start an agency on the side and also do consulting and this and that, like I would fail at everything.
And, and this is what happened to me many times over and over again when I was starting out. So people give that advice of like, oh, you wanna diversify, like build a, build seven streams of income or whatever it is, as fast as you can. That's true. And I'm not saying that never do that, but at least for the first like five to 10 years of your career, and maybe it's a little different for everyone. And I know people don't all work the same way, but for me, at least I learned that for me to be successful, I have to go all in on something and not diverge whatsoever. And that's what I'm doing right now. And does that mean that I'm never gonna buy properties and have another stream of income and, and also maybe start something else on the side after an exit from social snowball, theoretically, for sure.
But right now, like as a more beginner entrepreneur, like it's very important to like be laser laser, laser focused, obsessed, unhealthy, obsessed on one thing only. Um, and, and like that's, and that would be the best advice that I receive I'd say is like the other side of that, cuz they're both good advice in different contexts, but for if you're even starting out, which I don't even know if I would consider myself starting out, I've been like building something for se seven years, but yeah, I it's still, it's still somewhat starting out. I'm not at the point where I can have my hand in like 10 pots and be, and be productive.

Rabah Rahil (11:23):

I love that man. And I think that is so spot on one. I love that you touched on context. I think there's so much advice out there that to your point is good or bad, but if you're don't have the context of what somebody's saying, it, it just gets really weird. And I'm with you too. I, I think the superpower's focus. Like I, I, I totally understand kind of where you're coming from too. Like, oh, the more legs on the stool makes a stable stool, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I'm with you, man. I, I have never been a great multitasker. I've never been able to, um, really, because for me I would just do a bunch of things bad.

Noah Tucker (11:58):

Yeah, exactly.

Rabah Rahil (11:59):

One thing really incredible. And then like, it was just really unfulfilling for me. And then, uh, yeah, I'm, I'm in the same boat and to your point, there's different strokes for different folks, but I'm with you, man. I think focus is a superpower and really first get your bag. And then once you get your bag, then I think the diversification can come because you already your money. <laugh> totally, you know, you've made your money versus like you're

Noah Tucker (12:20):

Telling at that point with

Rabah Rahil (12:21):

All. Yeah, exactly. So I think that's a, so, so well put man, um, what resources and kind of frameworks. So like how did you gain your mastery in terms of entrepreneurship business? Was it just by doing, or was there books, you read YouTube videos you watch, like how did you gain like all your skill set? I mean, you're so young and you, you have like such a great handle, not only on life, but on business, on productivity, you're traveling the world, which is awesome. Where personally, I believe that there's unique windows in your life that you'll never get back. And so like from my point of view, I, I used to enjoy life quote unquote, a little too much when I was younger. And I, my, my biggest regret is not going abroad, studying abroad. And of course now I have money. Now I can go to Europe and do, but it's different. Like I have a fiance, I have responsibilities. Like it's just such a, so I think it's so smart that you realize there's these unique windows in life that are really well suited to certain experiences that like money can't buy you again. Like you're never gonna be 23 again, start starting your burgeoning company, being able to experience the world with these, the, the certain viewpoints. So how did you, I mean, I guess it's too long. Didn't read is I'm jealous and I'm how you became so wise at such a young age.

Noah Tucker (13:31):

I'm definitely not wise. I'm definitely not wise. I, I have a few things figured out that maybe other people at my age don't but everything else, I'm a mess for sure. I mean, I've definitely, I wouldn't call myself wise. I mean, yeah. I mean, I don't know, like for me, I mean to, I guess to answer your first question, like, how did I like learn most of this stuff? I'm definitely a trial in error guy. Like I can't, like, I can't believe anything until it fails for like, I can't believe something won't work until it fails for me. And I like reap the consequences of it failing. So even though like people will tell me things, I I'm just too much of a trial in error guy. That's like, I need to see things work and fail. And like, that's how I can make my decisions, like very, I guess, kind of a data driven approach.
Um, so yeah, I mean, I've definitely read some, you know, books, some more like mindset stuff, some more tactical stuff. Um, probably helpful for sure, but in everything that I've done, um, you know, I'm social snowball. Like, you know, I'm still learning as I go, of course, like, you know, we've definitely came a decent way, but like it's very much learning as I go and, you know, I try things and I talk to as many people as I can and I ask as many questions as I possibly can and I learn from them and I try, you know, I make my, the best decisions I can. I see what works, I see what doesn't and then I make better decisions moving forward. That's like, you know, kind of an ongoing process of life more than just business. Um, and then, then I guess your second question, I mean, I don't know.
I just love traveling. Like I, I don't see, like I don't see myself stopping, traveling at any point in my life. Maybe I'm naive to say that most likely I am. Um, but I mean, traveling is just like so important and fun to me. Like if, if I'm in any place and this is why I'm not even like, I, I had my lease in LA and I was probably in the apartment for like, like six to seven months out of, out of the year lease. So it's like, I'm, I'm kind of like wasting money. I, you know, I wanna be in Europe. It's, it's, it's fun here right now. So, um, I don't know. I just love traveling. So I don't see that stopping at any point in my life, but maybe, maybe that's a, you know, maybe it is a window and I'm just get taking advantage of it and then it, it won't be a thing down the road.

Rabah Rahil (15:34):

No, I love that. But I think that's where my kind of my thesis is like that naive, naive, naive naivety. I dunno how the fuck you say that. But anyways, that like, that mindset is like, it's impossible to cultivate, especially too, like, there's that old line, like once your mind expands, it can never contract again, like you have these like ills of the world that you haven't experienced yet. Like, you don't have these kind of like huge responsibilities that you don't have the wifey yet. You don't have a kid, you don't have all these things that like are, you know, seismic shifts in your psyche. And so I'm just so happy that you're experiencing all that's super awesome, man. See, so I'm living vicariously through you send, send pics <laugh> um, the, yeah, I, I love that. That threw me off the next question. So let's do one more for the main segment. What's the nicest thing someone's done for you.

Noah Tucker (16:23):

Oh, wow. Um, I just, ah, that is a tough one. That is a tough one. I mean, everyone in my life is incredible and supportive in every way. Um, I mean, my parents from when I was a kid, they've always like helped me become entrepreneurial and never said like, no to any of my wildest ideas. Like my girlfriend now is like extremely supportive. And when I'm having like a breakdown, cuz everything is going wrong with social snowball shit, like be like, you're fine. And like help me. Uh, oh man, that is really a hard question to pinpoint one thing. I, I really have been blessed with having amazing people in my life. I, I don't know if I could, I don't know if I could give you like some amazing, magical one moment on the spot like this, but I it's, it's not something I'm upset about. We'll

Rabah Rahil (17:06):

Give the, the girlfriend and the parent points. We'll we'll, we'll leave it at that. So those are great answers. It's fantastic. I love that you've cultivated such a, a healthy ecosystem around you to support your journey. Um, you made it to the value add segment. Let's go. No, let's, let's go killing it. Okay. So we've been talking about social snowball, a lot for people that don't know, kind of give us the elevator pitch and then tell us why affiliate marketing is so important.

Noah Tucker (17:28):

Totally. So social snowball, we are an affiliate marketing platform for direct to consumer brands that focuses on converting your customers and owned audiences into affiliates. So slightly different than the more traditional affiliate model focused more on publishers and influencers. Social snowball's goal is to democratize affiliation and make it so that everyone and anyone is an affiliate on the product side that looks like automating turning customers into affiliates, right? When they purchase, um, you know, a thank you page widget, giving them all their referral information, discount, code, reward, info, tracking info, et cetera. Um, as well as follow up touchpoints that could be customized through integrations, SMS, email, you know, integrated with <inaudible> postscript cetera. Um, it also means making payouts democratized, meaning that commission payouts don't have to be PayPal only with a minimum payout threshold of like 30 bucks. The average, you know, friend and family customer referral is gonna be referring one or two friends making 10 bucks. We need to make payouts easy to send at a mass scale. We need to make them very easy, um, and dynamic to redeem and social snowballs, all of that from within the product. And beyond that, it's just a very smooth, fun platform to use. It's not like annoying and outdated, like a lot of our competitors. It's, it's new. It's for the modern D to C brand. Um, yeah, that's, that's the elevated pitch.

Rabah Rahil (18:37):

<laugh> I love it. Do you guys sit on anything other than Shopify or are you exclusive to Shopify or everything?

Noah Tucker (18:42):

Just Shopify right now, we're definitely gonna be expanding to other platforms, but Shopify ecosystem is my bread and butter, so it's where we started. Um, but we will be expanding for sure.

Rabah Rahil (18:51):

Yeah. I love that. And then the, you kind of talked about this a little bit in the previous segment, but kind of the aha moment was you were doing all this manually, right? Yeah. And you were just like, dude, there has to be a better way. And was that kind of the impetus for a social snowball?

Noah Tucker (19:06):

Oh, a hundred percent. A hundred percent. Yeah. I was literally from that first store I built right out of high school, not even in college yet. Like what is this? Six, seven years ago now? Um, I was, yeah, I was literally manually, um, creating discount codes for people to share like ambassador codes for people to share with their friends and then I'd create them in another discount code for them to purchase themselves. And I would make it in Shopify and then DM to them on Instagram, like fully, manually. Um, so like that was like my first ever eCommerce experience. And then it obviously developed into something a little bit more built out as I started learning more and more. Um, but it was never, I was never able, able to build out exactly what I wanted, um, because of the lack of tech that was out there. So that was like essentially the, uh, the catalyst for the idea.

Rabah Rahil (19:49):

I love that. How big's your team right now?

Noah Tucker (19:51):

Uh, we're seven.

Rabah Rahil (19:53):

Oh wow. You've grown quick. What was your first hire?

Noah Tucker (19:57):

Um, so I, so this is, yeah, the way, the way social snowball, um, you know, started was definitely not the traditional way startup begins simply because I didn't know what I was doing and <laugh>, and I just wanted to make an app. So I started by hiring an agency and this is not my first hire, but I'm kind of like, yeah. Showing how we got there. But yeah, I started by hiring an agency, um, that was gonna do like a done for you, UI UX, fun, all the functionality and like website everything for like a flat rate, um, which they told me it would take three months. It turned into an absolute hell of 15 months before I turned inContract. Gosh. Yeah. I, I still terminated the contract early because the, we didn't even have an MVP ready for the shop, like to be approved by Shopify at that point. Um, and then I made my first hire right after that, which was a very senior freelance engineer, um, who came in, um, he he's, he had like been working at Yahoo or something like this guy was like some super, super senior engineer. He came in, um, fixed, like every bug we had within like a week, we were able to submit to the shop, so get approved. So that was my first ever hire. He's actually no longer working with us, but, um, he, he was the first freelance hire that we made.

Rabah Rahil (21:03):

Amazing. Yeah. That's awesome. How do you manage your team remotely? Do you guys have like a, you guys use slack or Asana or like

Noah Tucker (21:11):

Yeah, we use slack. Don't use Asana. I'm actually a huge click up guy now Superbowl on click up. Oh,

Rabah Rahil (21:17):

Interesting.

Noah Tucker (21:17):

Yeah. I'm super bowl on click up. I've been like a click up feed for the past two months ever since I like migrated things over, but we have now Asana notion. They literally built all of notion inside of click up, like all the slash commands and every fun thing that they have in notion exist inside click up. So you could organize it into like the different spaces that different team members are a part of. And you could like, you could attach like tasks to them and there's all these like fancy functionalities. It's very nice to have like everything organization, organizational and one place. And I mean click up slogan. I feel like I'm in, I'm advertising for them right now, but their slogan is one app to replace them all, which I didn't fully understand the value of that until I was like, you know what?
I'm just gonna sign up. I was sitting at the airport one day board didn't have anything to do. I was like, you know, I'm just gonna sign up for, click up and see if they could hook me and I'm paying them now. So they're doing something right. And I feel like every day I learn a new functionality that they have, um, interest I used for like my person. I don't have any like written down. I used to have like my own personal, like to dos and stuff, everything that migrated to click up, like everything. I

Rabah Rahil (22:13):

Love that. Yeah. I love that. So I'm a big notion guy. We use Asana right now, but AJ wants to move back in. It's funny. We, we, I'm a big, big notion guy and they did all my stuff in notion. And then AJ was like, we're gonna use Asana. And then, so we use, uh, so slacks are internal coms. Gmails are external coms. Um, asanas are project task management and then notion is kind of like our archival stuff. And then, uh, Google drive is like our, um, you know, hard drive where we just store stuff and then link it to it. But AJ's really starting to rub against, he hates living in two worlds. So we might migrate all the way into notion, but it sounds like that's kind of what you did with click up. Yeah. Where now you're just living in one house head school,

Noah Tucker (22:55):

Man. I love that. Definitely like give it a try or take a demo or something. The functionality that, I mean still to this day, it's been like, I think almost three months now since I've migrated everything over and I still discover new features and new views and ways to organize things like almost every day. Um, so if like you guys might even wanna hire cuz you guys have a pretty big team, you guys might even wanna hire, there's like click up experts that

Rabah Rahil (23:18):

Could like implementation experts

Noah Tucker (23:20):

Or something. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That could be worth it worth the time

Rabah Rahil (23:22):

For you. Yeah. I love that. Huh. I'll have to put that on the list. Um, how do you plan your day? Like how do you structure your day? Are you pretty scheduled out or do you kind of just wake up and then put out fires and work on what you wanna work on?

Noah Tucker (23:36):

Yeah, it's a really good question. It it's something that I'm still like working on optimizing for sure. Um, I noticed that like in the morning, sometimes I could be like overly emotional and not making rational decisions. So I try to like interesting, not read any slack messages too quickly because I will like either get mad at someone or

Rabah Rahil (23:52):

Like throw some fire, throw

Noah Tucker (23:54):

Some. Yeah. Like it's just usually never. And then like two hours later, I read it back and I'm like, what the is I think like I need stop reading slack in bed. Like it's always, it's always a bad idea. Um, so basically, I mean, yeah. I'll like try to start the day, like not replying to any message first. Like I'll just like look through what my to-dos are. Like kind of like ground myself a little bit. Um, and I usually it's usually, um, calls in the morning. So I'll usually like pretty much back to back calls, um, until like two, 3:00 PM. I try to like block out the evenings a little more to work. Now that I'm gonna be in Europe, I'm gonna do it reverse because the Eastern and Pacific time work days don't start until around like, like early evening here or afternoon.
Yep. Um, so I'm going to use the mornings to have like my focus work, no interruptions, no calls whatsoever. And I'm gonna work in the mornings and then I'm gonna be doing the double shift that night taking calls until like 10, 11:00 PM. So that's like what I'm gonna be trying now, but I'm still gonna do like one or two days a week where it's a no call day where I could just have focus work because I believe that's important. I, I caught myself recently, um, not being able to get anything done because I would take, let, let people book on my calendar every day of the week. And it was a disaster and I was like, really like my to-dos like what I had to do. Like my tasks were not ever getting checked off because I would wake up, you know, from nine to whatever five, 6:00 PM. I would have calls pretty much nonstop with only like 30 minutes to 15 minute gaps in between where, where I couldn't never lock into anything. And then I'm like starting to get my work done at like 7:00 PM. And then it's like 9:00 PM and I'm tired and I'm like, not even fully focused. And I was like, okay, something needs to change here. So that's fine. Like starting to block off whole days as well.

Rabah Rahil (25:30):

I might try and do that. That is something that I've been really missing is kind of some deep work days where uh, I'm like on from like 8:00 AM. So I have like leadership meetings and then it rolls into calls and I have a podcast and like, and you get into these like almost useless time chimes, right? Yeah. Like they're almost like mental masturbation where it's like, there's just, there's just no way that I can actually do anything productive outside of like executive work or like admin work, you know, where it's just busy work, replying email or

Noah Tucker (25:58):

Something just like replying. Yeah, exactly. Like

Rabah Rahil (26:00):

Fruitful. It's gross. Yeah. Totally agree. It's interesting. I might, I might block off, I might try a little day block off. I love that. Um, how do you see the next two to three years of eCommerce unfolding?

Noah Tucker (26:13):

That's a, that's a really great, great question. I'd see. Like one trend that I'd say is going nowhere is paid acquisition becoming more expensive and more difficult to track you guys solve a huge piece of that problem, but the, the cost part of it, like, you know, the attribution is one huge problem, which you guys are doing an insane job solving, but the cost is still like not really changing. Um, yep. It's I, I, I used to always talk about this. There's a really cool graph that I could find in mine. Maybe. I don't know if you guys can like, do like popup edit over this, but it showed like the percentage growth rate of users joining Facebook and Instagram, like post was post merge users, joining Facebook and Instagram compared to like, um, advertisers joining slack or spend percentage growth. And it was crazy cuz like it literally was so consistent, like the user growth com and which is really like impression availability compared to the, um, advertisers.
It was always like a roughly straight line like this. And then in like 2017 or something, it just fully switched and like has not changed. And like that's just the, the way it is like digital advertising is becoming more and more popular. Every mom and pop shop is gonna be, be spending something. So I see that becoming more and more and of a problem. And we see a lot of cool solutions, social snowball included, um, coming up to help combat that in a way and to give merchants alternate, um, customer acquisition channels. And you know, these are like the, these are a lot of the startups and like the e-com SA space that have all the talk right now. Another great example is, um, they co-op changed their name to something else. Co-op commerce. Do you know what I'm talking about? Uh,

Rabah Rahil (27:41):

Yes, but I can't recall what the, uh, name change is, but I I'm tracking what you're talking about.

Noah Tucker (27:45):

I'll find it in two seconds. So, uh, it's like it's something cooler I'm act. I like, like the name change disco. That's what it is. Disco. Yes. Disco. So that's like another cool way for merchants to acquire customers without like the traditional paid ads. Obviously there's a lot of tried and true methods and like, you know, obviously, you know, this is why loyalty and retention are extremely popular areas of conversation right now as well. But acquisition is still an important as is still very important part of, of an e-commerce model. So I see there being a lot of new channels coming up, like turning customers into affiliates, like having, um, you know, post purchase share offers or whatever it is that disco does, stuff like that. I see like a lot of new startups popping up, um, tackling the problem of customer acquisition costs. Um, I that's like a trend that I don't see going anywhere at all, especially over the next like two, three years.

Rabah Rahil (28:38):

Yeah. I think you're spot on with that. And I think that, um, kind of why social snowball is so well positioned is I think there's also an aspect of, um, not only that acquisition vector, but also building this kind of pseudo community, like being able to, there's nothing better than like your friend turning you on to something. And then if you can incentivize them in a really easy manner. Cause I tell people about stuff all the time, but I'm super lazy. Like if they don't have social snowball, I gotta like apply to affiliate program. I gotta wait on the application. Yeah. You gotta get a code. You got like, it's just too much. I'm like dude for like seven bucks. Forget it. But if it was just like, Hey, here's a link that I can just toss you. Like after I buy the product, like dude, no, check this out.
So awesome. Where, um, I think not only is that acquisition loop better, but you can also build evangelists quicker. And so that's one thing that I think people are sleeping on as community. And we kind of talked about this offline and then on a little bit on your podcast, but I think people are sleeping on community. I think community is something that is kind of like was the old thing, but now is new again where it's just being able to, to connect with their consumers and then giving them a church to worship out, I think is really, uh, the path where we, we have almost 900 people in our Nawal nation. That's like our exclusive slack group. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's been great for everybody. And we basically kind of the inmates run the asylum where it's like just people in there throwing slanging stuff around. And so I think that's something that, um, a lot of people are gonna realize that it's really, if you can put some resources into it, it just pays you back in spades.

Noah Tucker (30:09):

Oh my God. Totally. And I mean, the retention from members of the community is always gonna be way higher. Um, they're, you know, they're gonna be less likely to maybe leave a negative review if they could get a problem solved from another community member, people trust exactly. You know, people always so well have issues trusting a brand like the brand itself, like a customer support person that they're talking to, but a community member that could solve the same problem because they've been shopping from you guys for two years and they know the answer to your question within the Facebook group. Like it it's, it's proactive customer support. It's better retention than LTB. It's solving a lot of problems in once and referrals of course like, and, and the LTV, um, of referral acquisitions are always, are mostly a lot higher than like paid acquisition. So there's really no downside to, to investing in, in building community. For sure.

Rabah Rahil (30:56):

Yeah. I love that. I love that. Um, and you kind of touched on this, but we'll ask you again, what's one thing people are in the e-commerce community aren't talking about and should be like, what's something on flying under the radar besides community. I

Noah Tucker (31:10):

Guess that's a really good question. That's a really good question. Um, honestly, I, I, you know, just because this is like really where my mind is always thinking like customer affiliates is like such an important thing. And I mean, yeah, I see so many brands neglect and we, you know, we could make this a wider umbrella. We could call it referrals, we call ambassadors, whatever you want. Like yep. Just neglecting. Um, getting referrals from customers is really leaving money on the table, like significant. And I think a lot of people will like set up a loyalty program and then like activate the referral feature and see, it only generate like 0.2% of their top line and they'll get discouraged. But there's like, I mean, not just social snowball, there's a lot of tech that you can use that can really make it a significant revenue driver.
Maybe when it's 0.2% of your GMV or not batting an eye. But what if it was 8% or 10%, like then it's really significant revenue in customer acquisition. So brands, I think like they just, you know, maybe dip their toes in referrals and customer affiliates with like some sort of loyalty product they're using. They see it like not perform very well. And they just like, kind of are like, oh, whatever. It's like free extra revenue. I won't put that much thought into it. But when you like really build things correctly and use the tool like social it's snowball, that's automating a lot of things and makes it more hands off for you. And you're integrating into your attention channels and you have touchpoints where you're speaking to your customers and you're getting creative with the marketing and the rewards and how you're setting up commissions and tiers.
And you really build something out properly. Like you are your other marketing channels that are only turning on you and getting more expensive. The return you get from it is, is really significant. And like the brands that we've helped that transition from like a very like scrappy and not well thought out loyalty referral program to like a proper customer affiliate program, deeply integrated into their retention channels. The difference is astronomical and it makes it from brands not caring about it to significantly caring about it. So like yeah. As pay dad's, you know, like we were talking about before we continue to get more and more expensive brands are gonna have to start focusing more on these types of things.

Rabah Rahil (33:07):

Totally agree, man. I that's so well put, okay. One last question for the value ID segment, what's been the best parts and hardest parts to run in social

Noah Tucker (33:16):

Best parts are just seeing like the brands that we help. I don't, I, I know this might sound cliche, but it's really fun. It's like really cool. Like the fact that like, you know, myself and my team built something and brands are using it and they're generating a lot more revenue than what they were used to from a very similar product. Like that is like awesome. Like people are hyped about it and they're sharing it. And like, you know, I get on demo calls and someone's like, oh, like this person from this brand that I've never even heard of, like told me about it. And I'm like, wow. Like people are really liking what we're doing. So like, that's like always really fun and rewarding. Like after a demo call where someone tells me something like that, like the rest of the day, I have a smile on my face.
That's been like the most fun part of it. The hardest part I would say is like anything, human resources are building a team. It's just a learning experience for me. So I made a lot of novice mistakes that maybe could have been avoided with the right resources or mentor. But it's just because I didn't know what I was doing that like, I like even something as simple as like hiring an agency to build the MVP, like most successful startups don't start that way because that's just like, not what usually works. Like people find a tech, like if a marketing brain like me wants to build a star, you find a technical co-founder and you go through like a Y Combinator or maybe do something a little more traditional. And I just really didn't even know what was out there at the time. Um, so I would say like hiring, building a team, um, the, the whole like managing the tech side of things, cuz I'm not technical whatsoever, but I have become very much so a product manager in, in the early days of social snowball. So like learning all of that, you know, there's a decent learning curve as well. Um, I would say like everything in that regard has been like the hardest part for me, for sure.

Rabah Rahil (34:49):

Yeah. Look, you now click up con OFE we

Noah Tucker (34:53):

Got click on, click up.

Rabah Rahil (34:54):

You get it done, baby, click up everything.

Noah Tucker (34:56):

You get it done. Exactly. Yeah.

Rabah Rahil (34:57):

It, it is interesting. And I find too, like, uh, when you do start using like things like click up and stuff like that, it's harder to be lazy. And I don't mean that lazy in the sense of like getting stuff done, but I mean intellectually lazy where, um, that's why technical people are very good at like, if you give 'em a task like this, isn't a task dude. This is like an idea. Like you need to be like, here's what I need. And you start to understand like, oh I get it now I understand what you're saying. Like here's what I want. Here's what needs to be done. Here's how to do it. Blah, blah, blah. And you like, the apps become way more structured and there's actual, tangible action items in it and like agendas and things like that. And it sounds gross and like all these weird terms, but at the same time, like at the end of the day, that's how you're running your business. And so you need to be structured in time is really expensive, especially when you're paying engineers and when you're paying like these high level people it's like that, that stuff you can't get back. So having that, um, really dialed in at such a, a young age of the company is really super spot on, man. I love that.

Noah Tucker (35:59):

Totally.

Rabah Rahil (36:01):

All right. You ready for the rapid fire?

Noah Tucker (36:03):

Let's do it.

Rabah Rahil (36:05):

All right. Now, here we go. Here we go. Okay. Overrated, underrated Tesla

Noah Tucker (36:10):

Under

Rabah Rahil (36:11):

Underrated. All right.

Noah Tucker (36:12):

It was my first ever car. My dream car. I'm obsessed with Tesla. Like I think

Rabah Rahil (36:17):

I saw that. Oh yeah. Yeah. You so are you you like the electric cars?

Noah Tucker (36:21):

Oh my God. Yeah. I mean, I just like Tesla. I don't know. I mean, these are great. I'm very into like the environment, but Tesla is just the most fun thing I've ever sat in.

Rabah Rahil (36:29):

Yeah. I love it. You see, he's buying Twitter as well. What, what is Savage

Noah Tucker (36:33):

Savage?

Rabah Rahil (36:35):

Uh, Paris overrated. Underrated.

Noah Tucker (36:38):

I've only been there for six hours, but I'm gonna say Uber just because people were so rude to me.

Rabah Rahil (36:42):

They're so rude. Right? You weren't there for six hours. How'd you get the cool. You got that cool Eiffel tower pit with the in six

Noah Tucker (36:47):

Hours, six hours, six hours. Oh shit. You. Yeah, it was, it was like an 18 hour layover. So we just like Uber to the city for a bit. And then Uber back to the airport.

Rabah Rahil (36:56):

Oh my God. That gives me so much anxiety. I love that. I usually do like a lounge or something I need to, I

Noah Tucker (37:01):

Need to, we did the lounge 10 hours of waiting.

Rabah Rahil (37:04):

<laugh> I love it. This is kinda a softball, but we'll give it to you. Affiliate programs, overrated, underrated,

Noah Tucker (37:10):

Come on under,

Rabah Rahil (37:12):

Under

Noah Tucker (37:12):

That's the customer affiliate programs of publishing affiliate programs. People have pretty figured out.

Rabah Rahil (37:17):

Yeah. I love that. Um, the St regs, Dubai overrated, underrated

Noah Tucker (37:21):

Under that place was amazing. Amazing mag. The only thing that's

Rabah Rahil (37:25):

Picture was crazy.

Noah Tucker (37:26):

Yeah. That whole like pool, top that I have with like an infinity looking over Dubai, you have to pay extra to go there. It's not part of like, no, you already expensive bill that you're getting for staying at that hotel.

Rabah Rahil (37:35):

Seriously.

Noah Tucker (37:36):

Just to go, just to walk in that. Yeah. It's like, ah, I don't even remember. It wasn't anything crazy. Maybe like 50 or a hundred bucks, but still like

Rabah Rahil (37:42):

It's we already paying X amount for the room. Exactly. Which is nuts. And then you have to pay another hundred on top of it. Yeah. Did you like Dubai?

Noah Tucker (37:50):

Yes, very much so. Very, very. So it's an amazing city.

Rabah Rahil (37:54):

Yeah. Incredible. Uh, Shopify overrated, underrated

Noah Tucker (37:59):

Under, come on. They're the go? They they're, what's employed by everyone. Everyone that we know.

Rabah Rahil (38:04):

I fair point fair point. Um, NFTs, overrated, underrated.

Noah Tucker (38:09):

I'm gonna say under, I'm gonna say under, and I, and I might have had a different answer, not that long ago, but recently interest I've been shifting my mind into thinking like, what can the future be like with NFTs? And I just see like a lot of really cool possibilities, possibilities. If you think of like things that are very manual and time consuming and require labor. Now that like, could be replaced with just like verifying things with like tapping something or like clicking something or whatever. My brain has kind of started to run wild with ideas. And I'm like, wow, like right now they're cool profile pictures, but I could see a future where it does make our lives a lot more frictionless, which seems to be like the trend of things successful. So I, I, I, I think, uh, I think there's a lot of potential for it.

Rabah Rahil (38:49):

Do you think that, uh, an expansion plan for social where a social snowball where you start to offer, like, and it, cause I think that there's so much meat on the bone for NFTs in terms of building that kind of exactly what you guys do is some sort of evangelism lever where you're, you're helping consumers, not only, uh, or companies not only acquire people, but also build on that LTV and then build a community aspect. But I get weirded out when people use them in terms of like economic gain. I think that's the wrong, or in terms of like, uh, what social snowball does. Like I think that's the wrong way to think about it, but I think for you, it's really cool. Cause it's almost the same thing as what you guys did for affiliate programs and it's like an extension of an affiliate program. Is there any interest in that or kind of silly? That's

Noah Tucker (39:35):

A really good question. Honestly, there's there is, I don't know if this would even be social snowball, but I definitely my mind run wi runs wild when I think of the use of NFTs in a loyalty program, which is definitely not social snowballs. We wheelhouse were very customer acquisition in affiliate focus, but fair play

Rabah Rahil (39:48):

Fair play

Noah Tucker (39:49):

In the loyalty world. I mean, you know, what are loyalty points? If you make general world, what are they? They're nothing. They don't, what if they were something, you know, that's kind of where my brain goes. Like loyalty points would be a real thing and you and I could give you my loyalty points on open sea or whatever, you know what I mean? Yeah. So I definitely see a way for loyalty programs to use them to create like a real asset behind what loyalty points now are. And I think that could, you know, that what my brain is thinking is maybe even like a pre MVP idea of what could really be done, but yep. Yeah. So I definitely see it in the loyalty side of things. I don't know if that would be social snowball, maybe another project, but I could definitely see, uh, some, some great use for that.

Rabah Rahil (40:28):

I love it. Do you own any, do you have any, uh, a G pumps? Anything?

Noah Tucker (40:32):

No. Nothing, nothing cool. Like I, when, when the hype first began, I was like throwing a little bit of money here and there at like these absolute terrible projects. I haven't had, I haven't had one NFT, not at least negative 10 X in value. <laugh> not one, not one. And most of them I minted. So I was like only losing a few hundred bucks. There was one that I bought for like one or $2,000. Like still nothing crazy, but it completely like the value the floor disappeared. So how about you? Do you have a good, do you have like any duals or

Rabah Rahil (41:04):

Anything? I, no, I never got into it, man. I missed the BTC wave and then I missed the NFT wave as well, but I, I never I'm with you. I think it could be some interesting. So like NFTs in the sense of like, I think like concert tickets could be pretty cool. Mm-hmm <affirmative> where it's like, I hate Ticketmaster so much. I mm-hmm <affirmative> well, I just have like, in my capitalistic vein, like I hate when markets get perverted and like Ticketmaster is like your perfect example, like concert tickets get inflated, but they, they inflate them by buying a bunch off the market and like hacking it and stuff like that. Oh, so yeah. So it'd be cool to do like NFT tickets where it's like, you can't charge more than three X, the base price or something like that. Like yeah. Yeah. You could pass the ticket around as many times as you want, but you can't put because the Ticketmaster of the world will just buy up all these tickets and artificially inflate the price.
And then the people that wanna go to the concerts that are actually fans don't get to go. Yes, totally. So I think there could be some really cool implementations. I don't see the art vector just cuz I think art and culture or like culture and scarcity are kind of the two driving value vectors for art. Um, you can get the culture ish, but like the scarcity stuff, I just don't get. Cuz for example, if you had the, the Noah Tucker NFT and then you had an art show in London, in Paris, in Miami, but it was all at the same time and you were showing the same NFT. It's like what? Art show's better. Like by definition it just breaks my brain in terms of like, that's why physical art is always gonna be better because you can't by definition replicate it. Yeah. And so you can, so that's why I never got the art vector, but I think there's, there's some really cool things there. Maybe I'm wrong. But uh, from what it seems, it seems like the bottom's falling out a little bit, um, on the, you don't see as many profile picks as you did a year ago. Put it that way.

Noah Tucker (42:48):

I think I agree with what you say on the art side. I think like the, the profile pick part of it is cool because it's like, it's very community and like obviously us as humans, we love being part of like, that's

Rabah Rahil (42:57):

Why the loyalty

Noah Tucker (42:57):

Thing. Yes. Same with the loyalty. Same with the loyalty. Like it's the that's

Rabah Rahil (43:01):

I think it's cool vector there.

Noah Tucker (43:03):

So like when the art kind of like overlaps with the profile picture, like, oh I'm part of this like doodles community, like I'm too cool for you I'll have in the Zuki. Like we can go to this event, but you can't like, that is not going anywhere. I think that's like great. Yes. I don't know if that's gonna always be an art form, but it's gonna be like that whole like exclusive community aspect of it. Yeah.

Rabah Rahil (43:21):

But that's why I think the loyalty vector is really cool that you're talking about is because it is that. And then you can show it on your cause. So we're doing the whales in September and we're actually gonna have, uh, pretty cool. I don't know if we're gonna do entities proper. We might dots

Noah Tucker (43:35):

Proper get, oh you gotta, you gotta,

Rabah Rahil (43:37):

We got to okay. We'll probably do NFTs and we're gonna get 'em there's this really cool. Anyways, I won't spill the beans, but yeah, we'll probably end up doing NFTs, but they will be based on like loyalty, uh, payouts. Not actually like people speculating on 'em. Cause I think that's where it gets weird where it's like, I want it to be more of what you're talking about and describing as like this, this moniker of like I'm I'm included in this community. Yeah. And look how cool I am kind of thing versus like I've been using I'm super rich. Yeah,

Noah Tucker (44:04):

Exactly. Yeah. I've been using for a year and, and like they can we have like 10 million of revenue that you can see on our dashboard. So we get this N NFT or something like that.

Rabah Rahil (44:12):

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. So I think that's a really cool aspect of it, but, uh, soon to be seen, uh, TikTok, overrated, underrated,

Noah Tucker (44:22):

Probably still under probably still, uh, maybe it's hitting a peak. I don't know. I don't know. I'm definitely not a TikTok expert. I've had some fun to TikTok just on like the, the creator side of, of things. I've made some, some cool tos. Um, but, uh, like as an advertiser, like my media buying days ended before TikTok took off. So I don't really, I know people are like building entire businesses around the media buying in, in TikTok. So I think it's great. I mean, I know it's great. I'm just not like an expert myself, but I think, I mean, the platform itself is great. I mean, it's just a machine at capturing attention. It's absurd. How, how good of a job it does. Um, and it makes crazy like the, the data that it has. Like, if I'm, if I'm like, uh, doing long distance with my girlfriend, like, it'll be sending me all these like couple things, but then if I'm with her, it'll start sending and like, we're not texting each other as much. It'll start showing me breakup toss as if like, that's what it's assuming happens. So the amount of data points they must be collecting, oh my God. And this is consistent. This is consistent. It, it never like misses with that. So like the amount of data it has to show you exactly what you wanna see on your four pages too much to wrap our heads around. So they're definitely doing something right. <laugh>

Rabah Rahil (45:28):

Oh my gosh. That's amazing. There was a real funny story of like target had some sort of, uh, I think it was target and they were sending the, the gal like baby stuff before she even knew she was pregnant. So, oh, oh my God. That is interesting. Yeah, that's fascinating. That's crazy. Um, you kind of touched on this, but I, I wanted to ask you cuz I know your car guy. What's your favorite car?

Noah Tucker (45:48):

Tesla. The plaid. The plaid. Oh

Rabah Rahil (45:51):

Yeah, the fancy one. The X, the S what do, what do

Noah Tucker (45:53):

You drive the S I mean, the S is what I had in Miami. I had the S like 80, 85 D um, oh, that's I fell in love with it. I fell in love with that car. Um, and now, now the plaid is the coolest version of that. So that's, I would say like my next dream car

Rabah Rahil (46:07):

It's so fast. Is,

Noah Tucker (46:09):

Have you been in one, like the feeling of pins Kinsey back? Oh

Rabah Rahil (46:12):

My God. Oh dude. It's bananas. I love it. I love it. My old three, four jobs go geez. A while ago. Uh, he had, uh, a range Rover supercharge, and then, uh, uh, Tesla, 85 P D the super bad boy. And the, this weirdly enough, I enjoyed the supercharger better, cuz it's almost like foreplay. Cause I,

Noah Tucker (46:35):

When then goes, this is instant, but

Rabah Rahil (46:37):

Instant, instant.

Noah Tucker (46:39):

It

Rabah Rahil (46:39):

Is. So like it breaks your brain. Like it's just like, you literally like switch where it's just and you're right. It pins you back and it was faster than the range. A hundred percent faster. Oh

Noah Tucker (46:49):

My God. Yeah. I mean, I think the plan is like the fastest car on the street. Like I don't think it's ridiculous. I don't think a bug Gotti's touching that.

Rabah Rahil (46:56):

Yeah. It's, it's pretty ridiculous. But the instantaneous thing was really hard to wrap my head around cuz internal combustions, you just don't get that. Yes. Especially if it's turbocharged or supercharged, cuz there's a little bit of, again like that half a second of it has to kick in, but uh, yeah, it's, it's, it's a really cool feeling. Super cool feeling. Uh, favorite meal and why

Noah Tucker (47:15):

Sushi? Um, oh, if I had to go more specific, I I'd say like a salmon or like salmon, belly, tuna slash Toro. Like nigiri simple, like just really good qualities. That's like my, my, I mean, I, I wanna say advice, but it's not even like bad for me, but it's just like, yeah, it's my obsession. Yeah. I'm a huge, huge sushi guy.

Rabah Rahil (47:35):

Oh, I love it. Wouldn't you come out to Austin, we'll take you to there's a couple really nice spots out here. We'll we'll do it big.

Noah Tucker (47:40):

That is a plan.

Rabah Rahil (47:43):

Favorite podcast.

Noah Tucker (47:45):

Um, uh, startups for the rest of us by Rob walling. Yeah. Um, that one strong is, is amazing. Rob walling is a go like he's that podcast has given me so much direction with social snowball. I listen to most of the episodes. There's like 600 now and I listen every single Tuesday and new one comes out. Um, and I, I never miss one, like on that Tuesday I will be listening to that at the gym. Um, Rob is the go, I actually applied to social snowball, a tiny seed, um, like way, way back when we were first launching and didn't get in, but I got to talk to Rob and, and the rest of the team and I, and I thought it was the coolest thing ever. Um, but how awesome. Yeah, that's, that's like a great podcast for, especially like me. Like I was not, I don't have a lot of experience with startups and I really wanted to do things right with social snowball and his whole mentality of like venture versus bootstrapping and, and like some in between like area that a lot of people don't talk about. That's like a very great way to build a startup. I, I see very aligned with the way he thinks of things.

Rabah Rahil (48:40):

Oh, I love that man. Great pick, great pick favorite place, travel to and why?

Noah Tucker (48:45):

Um, so Bali, but not specifically Bali, the small island off of Bali called Gilly air, the um, okay. It's just, that's far. It's stunning. I mean, it's just like, you have to take a two hour boat ride from Bali to get there and it's just completely remote. There's no cars or anything. Gasoline whatsoever on the island. There's just solar panels. That power, the whole thing. You could walk the perimeter and like 45 minutes, it's all just like just the most beautiful views ever. Like the most beautiful water, very happy people. Just a place that doesn't like, there's like ponies carrying you around. It's just a place that didn't feel real. We only spent like two days there because like you need, like, it was just a little too, not civilized. Um, yeah, but those two days are two days. I'll never forget. I have the coordinates of it engraved into my custom cuff, shout out TA and Sumo from custom cuff. Great DC

Rabah Rahil (49:34):

At that. How cool <laugh> that's dope, dude. Wow. What's so what was island called again? So it's awful Bali.

Noah Tucker (49:41):

Yeah. It's called Gilly air. So there's like Gilly island, Gil, which are like a chain of three islands. Um, got it between B and I'm pretty sure lob. Um, and there's like Gilly something Gil T something. It's like the biggest one. There's like hostels and roads. It's a little more civilized and there's Gil air and then there's even a smaller one. I'm pretty sure that I don't even know what it's called, but there's these three Gilly islands between them is probably like a five minute ferry. Right? Like they're all like next to each other. Yeah. Um, damn, just beautiful. Breathtaking. Every second. It was amazing.

Rabah Rahil (50:11):

How amazing. So, so cultured you are now how'd you get there? Where's it? Cause that's far

Noah Tucker (50:16):

How'd I get to Bali.

Rabah Rahil (50:17):

Yeah. Yeah. No. That's far was, did you go? You didn't go direct. Did you go through?

Noah Tucker (50:22):

Oh yeah. I had, you

Rabah Rahil (50:24):

Were already on that side of the world.

Noah Tucker (50:25):

I've been, I've actually been to Bali twice. I think both times at oh no. Once outta labor in South Korea. Okay. Um, and the other time some somewhere, maybe I'll I don't even remember. Oh, I think yeah. Sydney. I went to Sydney before I went to south.

Rabah Rahil (50:42):

That's what I was gonna ask Australia. Yeah. Yeah. So you came straight from the states though to North Korea then down

Noah Tucker (50:48):

South Korea might have been a little

Rabah Rahil (50:49):

South Korea, sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. D

Noah Tucker (50:51):

Yeah, no, I actually got trapped at like, I couldn't even, I couldn't even board when I got South Korea, they wouldn't let me bored because my passport was expiring within six months. Um, but I'm also a dual, dual citizen of Brazil. So I had a Brazilian passport, but I left that passport and uh, back at home. So I got my friend while I was stuck in South Korea. Literally the airline's full fault for not telling me this and letting me bored. Like they should not have, let me bored and just be trapped in South Korea. Um, but I was in South Korea. I FaceTimed my friend, Trevor. I told him the situation within two hours, he was on a flight to South Korea. I, I paid for his entire B trip. He came with us, he brought my passport. My parents met him at the airport, gave him an envelope with my passport. He flew to South Korea, like two hours after I FaceTimed him. We stayed in South Korea that night met Matthew for like five in the morning. And then we all went to Bali like right after that. What?

Rabah Rahil (51:39):

That is a story of stories. That's incredible. How do you have a dual citizenship?

Noah Tucker (51:44):

My mom's from Brazil.

Rabah Rahil (51:46):

I know how cool. Yeah. Yeah, no, you have so many wrinkles to you. <laugh> okay. Last question. We'll get through the rapid fire. Uh, you can invite three people to dinner or dead or alive, fictional and nonfictional. Who would they be? So you're sitting at a four person table. You're at the head. You get to invite three people who who's getting a ticket

Noah Tucker (52:03):

Elon Musk, for sure. Okay. Have a lot of, have a lot of questions for him. Honestly. That's like the only name that gems to my head. I could probably really think of other ones, but I would probably want to not even hear the other people talk to so I could really pick your on Musk brand. Like if I could have three eons, that'd be,

Rabah Rahil (52:18):

You want three? I've never heard that answer. We'll take it. It's your rapid fire. Perfect dude. Noah, you made it through, you made it through rapid fire, all the segments. You're the best that Brazil trip. That's a really trippy, uh, that's incredible, dude. I I'm so glad we got that outta you. That's that's a nuts, you know, you're so young and you've lived so much. It's incredible. It's not, but is it, it's not the, the years that you've lived with the life and the years you're you're on top of it. Um, tell people how they can get more involved with you. How can they sign up for social snowball this time is yours? My friend.

Noah Tucker (52:47):

Yeah. Just hit me up on Twitter. Know what talk spelled N O a T U C K. Um, and then social snowball. I mean just search it on Google search in the shop app store, you could sign up book a demo. Um, we'll definitely help you make a lot more money than your other referral programs are.

Rabah Rahil (53:02):

I love it, dude. Thanks so much, man. Enjoyed London. I really appreciate you taking the time.

Noah Tucker (53:07):

Absolutely. My pleasure.

Rabah Rahil (53:08):

Yeah. What a fun pod. I love it. <laugh> if you do wanna get more involved with triple, we are tri triple.com. We are also on the bird app at triple and then we have a fantastic newsletter that goes out every Tuesday, Thursday called whale mail. You can subscribe right on our Twitter profile at triple Noah. Thanks so much, man. Enjoy your European adventures. If you run into Tommy to, to get back here, miss. So man, have a, have a safe time in Europe and I'm excited states you'll see you on the.

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