What ADS are NOT Working on TikTok and How To Fix That

January 12, 2023


Hosted By

Rabah Rahil
CMO at Triple Whale


Cody Plofker
Director of E-Commerce Jones Road Beauty
Ash Melwani
Co-Founder & CMO of MyObvi

Episode Description

In this episode of adspend we go over what is and more importantly what is NOT working for us on tiktok and how we fix what's not working. #Adspend

Notes & Links

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- Rabah's Twitter: https://twitter.com/rabahrahil
- Cody's Twitter: https://twitter.com/codyplof
- Ash's Twitter: https://twitter.com/ashvinmelwani


Rabah Rahil (00:00):

What's not working for you on, on creative.

Ash Melwani (00:02):

Yeah. I mean, our stuff that we used to run on Facebook completely flopped, and we never made that mistake again. Yeah. Like I've never seen $8 cost per click in my life. <laugh>

Rabah Rahil (00:21):

All right, folks, we're back, we're back. Super excited to be back. We're actually, I don't know if we're gonna record next week or not, cuz we're all three gonna be in Miami. Um, actually we'll all be on a panel. We'll be speaking. It'll be awesome stuff. So we wanted to sneak in an episode for you, as you can see, sorry for the audio, but I am in the home office. Um, so I don't have the crispy setup as always, but I'm with my boys, Cody and Ash, and we're gonna dive deep into Ash has been doing some really cool stuff that he's gonna go over on thes. And then Cody has also been doing some amazing stuff on the, so again, there'll be a little bit of a heavy episode, but um, there's just gonna be tons of in that, because that really is the channel right now that you can really scale up on there still a lot of under pricing in those ads and um, there's no two better people to learn from. So Ash, let's start with you, um, kinda what you've been doing and then Cody, you can drop some bombs.

Ash Melwani (01:09):

Yeah. So I think we've kind of all seen this like phase everyone's going through of like yo TikTok is the next thing. And, and, and it's a great platform. Um, obviously the organic side is something that we have yet to kind of crack. Um, but we're seeing really good results on the paid. Um, with that being said, I think it still has some ways to go in terms of how far you can actually scale, um, on the platform. Uh, I mean I, if I could, I would, I would move all my budget over. Um, but it's just, I haven't been able to crack, you know, getting past that like five, six K a day and spend, um, Cody. I know you have similar now.

Rabah Rahil (01:51):

Not much more. So.

Ash Melwani (01:53):

Yeah. So right now we're spending around five K a day. Um, the biggest, the biggest biggest thing I've seen is just that when we're running on TikTok, everything gets better. Um, you know, Facebook stats look better. Um, overall NCPA looks better even if like in platform on TikTok and like, say like triples, pixel TikTok, doesn't look like it's doing well overall, still performs better. Um, and to Cody's point view through, you know, is, is so huge when it comes to this platform. Um, what I've noticed is obviously creative fatigue is such a huge thing, right? Yeah. Of, you know, people, people say that you gotta swap out stuff like every seven days, um, what I've seen and I'm, I'm sure there's people out there like me where like, if a video has like 2 million views, a ton of engagement, you don't want to give it up.

Ash Melwani (02:42):

Right. Um, so some of these videos, we've just kind of let run and like CPAs don't look great. Like CTRs are really low. Cause it's super fatigued. CPCs are really high, but because I'm running, it, it, everything still looks good. Right? So like our C N CPAs, our overall N CPAs are down. And the reason I'm thinking is because it's just social proof kind of going out there. Right. It's just brand awareness. Yeah. You're kind of optimizing for, you know, purchases, but in general, it's driving top of the funnel awareness, which kind of triggers down to everything else, Facebook and the other ads that we're running. So what I, what I'm trying to do now, and Cody, you tell me, you know, your, uh, your opinion on this, but what I'm gonna do now, moving forward is all the ads that I've kind of left running for like 2, 3, 4 weeks that have super engagement, I'm gonna repurpose them. Um, and instead of running for like optimizing for purchases, I'm probably just gonna optimize for like view content on a lower budget, just so I can kind of hit lower CPCs, get some traffic in there. Um, but I just want that video to be playing and hitting, but

Cody Plofker (03:49):

You've been talking to your like Facebook marketing expert or something. <laugh>

Ash Melwani (03:53):

So, so the, yeah, no, well, this actually came from, uh, TikTok rep <laugh> um, so I'm gonna test it. I'm gonna, I'm gonna test it on like a low budget, um, just to see like $250 a day, just some of the ads that have had like crazy engagement while at the same time testing new stuff. Right. So we just launched another product at top of the funnel for, um, for TikTok that we haven't been able to like kind of crack on Facebook and it's crushing ONT, TikTok.

Cody Plofker (04:21):

That's crazy. What, what's the product, if you don't mind

Ash Melwani (04:23):

Saying so. Yeah. It's our superfood formula, right? 35 super foods, one scoop. Is it

Cody Plofker (04:28):

Like a greens powder?

Ash Melwani (04:30):

It's almost like a greens powder, but it's pink. Right?

Cody Plofker (04:33):

Okay. Got

Ash Melwani (04:34):

That's cool. That's cool. But yeah. Why, why,

Cody Plofker (04:38):

Why do you think, why do you think on TikTok? Not Facebook?

Ash Melwani (04:41):

So Facebook, I mean, it, it's tough to get the, well, here's the other thing we're already running two other products on Facebook. Mm-hmm <affirmative> so I think adding a third into the mix, kind of like it's too much, um, at least on TikTok, it, it kind of like, it goes down its own alley per se. Okay. Versus like on Facebook, everything's kind of working together, you know, so if I'm running like our collagen protein on Facebook, our collagen fat burner is kind of supplementary to it. So that if somebody sees one ad for the protein, they see this it's it, you can go either way. Right. But with like, when you start adding in super foods, it's a completely different product, different like benefits, it kind of throws it off. So that's why I didn't see results there. Um, I'm seeing it on TikTok now cause I'm running protein and super foods. Okay. Super foods is doing really well. Um, so I'm gonna start to scale that up, but basically what I'm seeing is the newer ads, man. I mean like creative fatigue is real. Like you can like in platform, if you just keep launching new stuff every week, things get better and better and better. Um, so

Cody Plofker (05:47):

What's, what's your efficiency compared to Facebook better? Worse.

Ash Melwani (05:50):

Same. Yeah. Better. Yeah. Much better. Like CPAs are like really, really good. The thing is, is here. Here's the thing. I think it's a little bit more, more volatile. Um, mm-hmm <affirmative> like you'll have a really, really good day and then the next could be like, eh, right. Yeah. Um, but then again, that's reported, right? So it's reported on triples pixel reported in platform, but like overall day to day things look great. Um, and then like when we're not running TikTok, it just doesn't seem to be overall. The overall efficiency doesn't seem to be there. Um, but yeah, I mean the only thing I really wanted to know Cody, cause I know you guys have a ton of videos that have like a ton of views and engagement is just like, are you guys kind of repurposing those? Like, or are you letting them go and just launching new stuff?

Cody Plofker (06:34):

Yeah, yeah. I'll share. So, um, I'll just say first, like we're seeing very similar things. So, uh, we're spending like six, maybe seven K day right now I've talked to some people that do like 15, that's like the highest I've heard. I think it's probably two things, uh, talking to somebody at TikTok. It's probably, um, some again, I'm no expert, but some of the option and, and how they kind of deliver ads and, and, and pace 'em. So I think they probably have some things to iron out there to get more scale, uh, and, and keep it profitable. And then I also think it's it's creative fatigue as well. Um, yeah, definitely things just drop off. It's it's kind of crazy. Like we'll, we'll launch something new it'll work like insane efficiency and it just dies off so quickly a week or two. So it's, it's really that.

Cody Plofker (07:20):

And one of the things that we're doing a lot of and finding a ton of success with, uh, is, uh, video replies. So most of our stuff is spark. Uh, almost everything is spark video replies. Uh it's it's it's killer like everything, uh, and you know, our stuff, we try to be very educational. But with that being said, it's, it's hard to repurpose that, I guess you could, but like, I don't exactly know what we would do. So that's kind of gonna be our focus is, is figuring out how to get more life, but also, or either new content or how to get more life. Cuz it's like our ability to film, you know, is not, we don't always have that. So we've gotta be able to repurpose our assets like we do on Facebook mm-hmm <affirmative> and so that's our big, our big focus.

Cody Plofker (08:00):

Um, so I, I let them run if I don't have anything else, otherwise, you know, I'll, I'll launch something new and it'll just crush. It'll take over all the spend, but I gotta get something new, you know, every week in there. Um, but yeah, overall like efficiency is better than Facebook to, to similar. It'll be really good one week, like better we'll scale it and then it'll just drop fast. So I'm not like scaling as much as we go. I'm I'm testing some more horizontal. So I have a broad, I have one, everything is on ABO. I have a broad, uh, broad, um, I'd yeah, I've tested

Ash Melwani (08:36):


Cody Plofker (08:36):

I haven't totally found it to, to allocate budget super well. Um, interesting. So abroad, it's not recommended interest now. I don't think so. So recommended interest. I would say they probably do similar, you know, one day broad will be better. The other day recommended interest will be better. Uh, what'll happen is Facebook will give or TikTok will give you like 16 interests. Don't even look at them. They're like really? They some would make sense, make no

Ash Melwani (08:58):


Cody Plofker (09:00):

Summer's like lawn care. I'm like, whatever, like I'm testing, hashtag targeting, we're running stuff for a foundation. So I, I did a bunch of hashtag for a foundation it's doing okay. Not as well as the other stuff, but it's doing okay. And the other thing is, so this, this first recommended interest that we launched like months ago, it has a completely different set of recommended interests than if I was to go and create a new recommended interest ad set now. So I don't know the auction overlap there, like the audience overlap, but I'm running two different recommended interests and, and finding success with both of them. So that's kind of another way we're finding scale mm-hmm <affirmative> um, but yeah, it's, it's it's once you get something that works, you know, it's, it's creative, it's landing page testing can definitely talk about, you know, landing landing pages that we're running. Once you find something it's really is just refreshing the creative. I I think

Ash Melwani (09:48):

Yeah. For like, so you know how we, we were saying like creative fatigue is, is real on TikTok. Right. Are you, are you scaling horizontally with the same creatives?

Cody Plofker (09:59):

Yeah. Yeah. Same exact creative and everything. I mean, one of these I even, I have like, I, I probably have like two creatives in most assets. One of them, I even have one mm-hmm <affirmative> uh, it's just cuz that's what our bandwidth is right now. That's all, all we have yeah. Of new stuff. I'm not even if I do leave the old stuff running, what happens is a CPA goes up, you know, click through rate goes way down, CPA goes up, but it just won't get spent compared to the new stuff.

Rabah Rahil (10:23):


Cody Plofker (10:24):

So it doesn't even really matter if I keep it running.

Ash Melwani (10:26):

When you think. Sorry, go ahead, Greg.

Rabah Rahil (10:29):

When you say scaling horizontally, can you explain that for the kids? Like asking for a friend?

Cody Plofker (10:34):

Yeah, of course. Course. So, so vertical scaling would be, you're just increasing budget on your existing assets. So you're just, you know, usually we go 20%, I'll go 20% per day. Uh, but usually, you know, it would be probably multiple times a day or just one day. No, just, just once. Uh, uh, I just do one and, and you know, you can go 20%, every few days to be a little bit safer, but you know, it, it depends how you wanna go about it. But then because of that, right, let's say you got something that was crushing and you wanted to double your budget. You would, you would have to do horizontal scaling, which is where you're increasing your budget by doing different, a sets, different campaigns, different audiences tracking. Um, that way you're able, you know, able to find kind of scale differently because what, what you don't want do what most people don't have success with is like, let's say you're spending 500 bucks a day on an adset and it's crushing it and you wanna spend 5k, you, you can try to duplicate that, but every time you launch a new ad asset, you're entering the auction differently.

Cody Plofker (11:28):

And it's like, there's no guarantee of success. So that's not exactly, you know what I mean? But it's more of like, alright, um, we found this audience works, this ad works. Let me find a thousand dollars a day going to a different audience. Mm-hmm <affirmative> yeah. And like, that's how we're gonna increase their budget. And I think if you're doing it correctly, you're doing what Zach stuck talked about on the one episode where it's like, you're horizontally scaling by different angles and you're really doing like different angles. We're not doing that. Ours is like all the same creative. Yeah. But I think that could be a, another way to find scale. It maybe we should test is if different products or different angles in different campaigns, cuz if you're creative is a targeting, you should be reaching a different pocket of people with those.

Ash Melwani (12:10):

Yeah. I think that's, that's where we're, that's why I was gonna say like, if you're, if you're scaling horizontally with the same ads, right. I feel like you'll hit that fatigue much quicker just because like there's more budget going towards it for sure. Sure. Which is why like we're scaling, like you said, horizontally one with another product and then within the products itself, another angle and then, you know, we'll try and get like four videos a week where we just keep dropping 'em in, but they're new ad sets. And like if the previous ad sets are still working, then we just let them run. Mm-hmm <affirmative> so just continuously building on the budget until the, you know, the earlier ones kind of just drop off.

Cody Plofker (12:46):

Um, what is working for you on the audience side? Uh, targeting,

Ash Melwani (12:50):

Um, so broad for sure. Okay. And then I took your suggestion on the, the recommended interests. Um, that works. Those do well. They do very well, but I feel like I can't scale past a certain like yeah, they don't daily budget. You test is fair.

Cody Plofker (13:04):

Have you tested like manual interests, like picking just kind of a few, few interest manually? I haven't in a while. Uh, I think

Ash Melwani (13:11):

It, I just leave it to broad now. Like I don't, I don't have time to like go and see what is available. I just broad let it rip. And then, you know, have you

Cody Plofker (13:19):

Tested hashtags

Ash Melwani (13:20):

Car? No, not yet. That's uh, that's the thing I gotta test.

Cody Plofker (13:25):

Yeah. I think that would be interesting for, for you, especially, right. If you're thinking angles and you're thinking, yeah. You know, collagen, weight loss, you know, having an asset for, for weight loss and have obviously weight loss, you know, hooks in there and then have a, a hair loss or whatever, whatever it is that could be an interesting, uh, way to get horizontal scale

Ash Melwani (13:41):

For you. Yeah. No, I agree. Yeah. No, I, I mean right now it's like just pumping out creative. Um, like literally I don't even, I told you guys, but we literally rented out the space next to us and just made it a studio and like no way. Yeah. We got like backdrops to like, make it look like a kitchen almost. Um,

Cody Plofker (13:59):

I'm gonna come over there and check that out. Cause I, I wanna build out, we're moving our office and we're keeping, and I wanna build out a studio, so I wanna see what you guys

Ash Melwani (14:05):

Do. Yeah, dude, we need it honestly. Cuz like that's where we'll, you know, I wanna start doing these from there. You know, I wanna, you know, do like product photography in there. Um, TikTok, that's it like put a little espresso, get like some flowers and shit and make it look nice. Um, but this way we can pump out creative in the day rather than like have the girls go home and like film in the morning, film and die. Right. This and that. So at least so

Cody Plofker (14:28):

What's working from a creative standpoint. Like what, what are the, yeah, you don't have to give away too much, but what are you seeing?

Ash Melwani (14:34):

No, I mean you guys, I mean here's the thing. Everything could be found. Right? It's all on our TikTok page. You'll see which videos have the most views and those are probably our spark ads. Um, but we're seeing like really cool angles, like TikTok, maybe buy it, um, unboxing mm-hmm <affirmative> um, three reasons why I'm taking this. Um, how I went from this, to this

Cody Plofker (14:55):

Unboxing with like a voiceover.

Ash Melwani (14:57):

Yeah. So like the girls, what they'll do is like they'll show like our pretty pink box show up at the door. They go and pick it up. They open it up, make the shake, try it. Talk about the benefits. Um, another good one that's crushing is us going to, and this is, this is, I think this is a really good strategy for people that have retail presence is go and shop at the store that you can find it. So we have a video of us going to a vitamin shop, be like, Hey, uh, things that TikTok made me buy that are worth the money. I just went to vitamin shop, picked up obvious, super college and protein. It's great for hair, skin and nails, blah, blah, blah. She take it home, make a shake. The whole thing's great. Not shit.

Cody Plofker (15:33):


Ash Melwani (15:34):

Do that pretty

Cody Plofker (15:35):

One in our store.

Ash Melwani (15:36):

You should, because then

Cody Plofker (15:38):

We got one in Montclair. Yeah. One in our town.

Rabah Rahil (15:41):

Oh, that's cool.

Cody Plofker (15:42):

I wanna try that. Cool. One. It also like, it doesn't look like an ad, right? I've seen some ads or in stores or in like, you know, trade shows. That totally looks organic.

Ash Melwani (15:51):

Yeah. But the thing is you send it to your website right. Regard at the end of the a you go and shop on the website if they buy great. But then you have exposure of whatever store you're trying to promote being like, well, they have that. I can go there and get it too. So it's good for, you know, um, and also like our online partners too, like we're on ride a.com. So like we'll do a video of things I found on riteaid.com and then obviously we'll still send it to Avi, but like subconsciously it's like, Hey, well I can also get it there if I shop there. Yeah. So,

Rabah Rahil (16:22):

And I can get the same day or what have

Ash Melwani (16:24):

You. Exactly. Yeah.

Cody Plofker (16:25):

You do. Do you any,

Rabah Rahil (16:27):

Go ahead.

Cody Plofker (16:28):

You do any spark ads or not

Ash Melwani (16:30):

All spark ads.

Cody Plofker (16:31):

All spark. Okay. Okay.

Ash Melwani (16:33):

I wanna retain that engagement. That's the thing, because if I, if I start moving stuff around,

Cody Plofker (16:38):

But it spark from Avi though, it's not spark from like,

Ash Melwani (16:41):

Okay. Yeah. So we tried, we tried that. So one of the girls made a ticket TikTok account just like her regular personal account. You tried running an ad from there. I mean it, it, no difference to Bence okay. Yeah. Okay. Um, I'm I'm it was only one test. I'm sure it might do better. Like I'm sure like when you work with creators right. And they kind of, you know, give up their, their, uh, authorization to run from their I'm sure that does well, right. White listing. Um, yeah, we just haven't really tried it as much yet.

Cody Plofker (17:10):

Okay. Yeah. Obviously it's still about the creative. Well it's like white listing or spark ADSS are not like a magic, you know, hack. The creative still has to be good, but I like it. I hear you, you usually see higher CPMs on spark ADSS for whatever reason. So that's keep in mind. But, but uh, yeah, I'm a big fan of spark ADSS on, on TikTok. Yeah. But video replies, if you're not doing video replies, dude, do, do you know what I mean by

Ash Melwani (17:33):

That? That's the thing I wanted to ask you. Right?

Rabah Rahil (17:35):

Yeah. Explain. Cause I dunno what that means. Is it the comments on your, or like a duet or like what do you

Cody Plofker (17:40):

Mean by that? Yeah. So, so when somebody comments on a TikTok video, right, it's gotta be an organic video. Uh, you can reply to it and when you reply to it, you can leave a video reply. So it comes up with this, you know, box of, of copy at the top of it. That's the person's question. Yeah. And so two reasons why I think it work, it works super well. So I think you can only do it for mean, I guess you could download it, you know, and then re-upload it like ads manager, it, first of all, it looks very native. It's something that's very native to the platform. Secondly, so again, like even when I've seen TikTok smart ads, I do that, uh, I watch 'em, it doesn't doesn't feel like an ad. Uh, and then also it's, it's another place to, to put a headline, you know, you essentially put your problem, your hook in there a little bit. That's another way to, to grab people's attention if people scan it. So, um, we've had a, that doing that.

Ash Melwani (18:28):

How do you, so are you picking and choosing which questions to answer? Because like for me, somebody answering a question about the original video or product does that like, does that still work at top of the funnel? Cause it's like, you don't necessarily have context to what they're talking about, but like, I guess you kind of go into it, like how do, how have you seen that work at top of the funnel?

Cody Plofker (18:51):

I've been a little surprised, uh, but some of our middle funnel stuff has worked really well. Like some of the stuff you would call middle funnel has worked really, really, really well. Obviously we have a well known founder and, you know, decently well known brand. I also think beauty is a very, uh, aware audience. People are very aware of it, right? So like if I put the headline in there, like, like what, how help me find my foundation shade, right. If somebody's in the market for a foundation, they'll see that like, it's it, you don't have to be very problem, you know, sense problem kind of uh, uh, you know, started. Um, so I, I, I will say that, but also I will say you can still do. Um, so I wouldn't just like exclude, you know, I would still test middle funnel stuff, but you can also probably find some top of funnel stuff. And I probably shouldn't say this publicly, but you can also have somebody on your team. Just a comment. If you

Rabah Rahil (19:40):

Look, I was just gonna ask, if you

Cody Plofker (19:41):

Look at some of our ads and some of our organic posts, you might find a recognizable name, leaving a comment, don't cancel me, but

Ash Melwani (19:49):

I think somebody already, uh, posted it didn't they? You already,

Cody Plofker (19:54):

I was gonna ask

Rabah Rahil (19:56):

That made, there was a big, uh, story on a go gal that made a, uh, uh, a song from a comment on TikTok. And then she ended up blowing up. She ended up getting to deal with like Spotify and a record deal, blah blah. Then it comes to find out that the comment was seated by her manager. Oh. And like it's a fair play. It's what it's it

Ash Melwani (20:17):

Was, you have to do what you gotta do

Rabah Rahil (20:18):

A breakup song about, uh, ABCs or some, I can't remember the song's actually really, really catchy, but it was, it was basically in the vein, in the, uh, the comment was a reply or the video reply was a, to a comment that her manager had actually seated in there. And then it was the springboard to her career. And now she's like a successful artist. So, um, there, it's no shame in the game, baby.

Cody Plofker (20:39):

I got no shame. Yeah. I mean, that's what I would do set up, you know, use somebody's or create your own and test five different, you know, have that be your hook and, and test five different, you know, kind of concepts there. Um, and test some top test, some middle, uh, correction. What's not working for you on, on creative. I've got a few things that are not working. I'd love to hear. What has anything flopped?

Ash Melwani (21:00):

Um, yeah, I mean, our stuff that we used to run on Facebook completely flopped, and we never made that mistake again. Yeah. Like I've never seen $8 cost per click in my life. <laugh> like it was horrendous. So did

Cody Plofker (21:16):

You run like a, like a, an image as a video? Like, like one of those things?

Ash Melwani (21:20):

Yeah. It was like, nobody, it was the girls, but it was like super polished, like edited affects this and that. And it was like, nah, that's not it. Um, but yeah, I mean, I would just like, I honestly, that's all we've kind of tested is just, I mean, maybe certain angles have like performed less than others, but I've always tried to just be like, I'm only, we're only putting up ads that are film from your phone. Like, that's it.

Cody Plofker (21:48):

Okay. Yeah. We've had some success with, with some studio stuff, uh, which, which is, has been really surprising to me. Mm-hmm <affirmative> uh, what is flop? This might be a little controversial, but really anything working with not anything, but a lot of working with like UGC content creators has just performed terrible. And like some of canceled, some of like the well known ones definitely on Twitter have just performed absolutely terribly. And like, <laugh> it, they, they, they just have, and it's like, I don't know if other people are finding success with these same people, but like the click-through rates are terrible. The watch times are, are, are absolutely garbage. And you know, to me, it's like people call themselves a content creator, but like they're just ads. Everybody says, make TikTok, not ads, but just because you're filming it on your phone and you're putting TikTok captions in.

Cody Plofker (22:35):

Yeah. It's still such an ad. It's just like, do you struggle with this? Well, I was too. And it's so cheesy and scripted. And I think people are, are at least personally I, when I see something like that, I just flip right by it, you know? Yeah. And I think if you're actually gonna work with content creators, making tos, not ads, you have to make stuff that is more native to TikTok, which means it's not just a hard sell it's there's education. All of our successful ads have been educational, helping people find the shade, helping people, you know, break down some objections, not just reading a list of features and benefits off of the PDP. Um, that's kind of, that's kind of, I, I think what, what we've seen has worked and hasn't worked, so we're gonna be very careful about working content creators in the future, trying to work with people who actually know the products and love the products. I actually think that's really important for getting an authentic, uh, piece of content. And then also trying to make sure things are like, not just an ad, but there's a different angle and component out there.

Ash Melwani (23:32):

Makes sense. Yeah. I think, I think the problem is that a lot of these, like, I, I, I don't wanna say it's a problem, but like, I, I think these guys who are UDC creators, don't see the other end of it. Like the advertising, the data what's kind of like working and whatnot. So I think it's also up to us as marketers to kind of brief as well as we can. Right. So like, if somebody's kind of like, Hey, I wanna do a video for you. Great. Like here's, here's two, three videos that I performed really well in the past. Here's a brief for it, make it work. Right. Um, I think that's where the direction has to come from, but otherwise, like there ha there, there can't be a disconnect between the two, otherwise, like you're kind of just like, you know, shooting in the dark. Um, but I agree some, some creators are definite naturally just better than others just cuz you know, some are more comfortable in front of the camera. They can talk and enunciate and things like that. So, um, definitely definitely agree there, dude.

Cody Plofker (24:29):

Are, are you Ash, did you ever get, did you guys ever sign him with bounty?

Ash Melwani (24:33):

I did not. No. Okay. Dude, you guys, I kind of wanted to see yeah. How, how is that doing for you?

Cody Plofker (24:40):

So we had our first video go viral, so full transparency. I'm an investor in it. So I, I just want to kind of get that out there, but we it's it's this app that essentially customers can get paid. That's why they call it bounty to post on TikTok. Right. So they'll get like cash back and they'll get paid so they can kind of sign up either on the PDP or the thank you page. Uh, and then there's an app you can log in in, you can see all this stuff and you pay on the CPM basis. So it's crazy. I think they're in beta now there might be a wait list. Um, but they, you pay on a CPM basis and you only pay for the first certain percentage of views. So they'll get paid they're incentivized cuz they'll get paid more depending on how well the video does and, and the reach.

Cody Plofker (25:17):

And we had a few that were doing okay that got, uh, you know, several thousand views. And we had one the other day that I think got like 300, 400 K views, which is crazy. I think it probably cost us like a hundred bucks or something. Um, and it's, it's crazy. So it's really cool because just from an organic side, it's like, you know, instead of paying, you know, $5,000 for, you know, video view ads or, or doing, you know, hundreds of thousands for, for, for TV and stuff like that, you can get a ton of brand awareness and have it be a lot more authentic saying, Hey, look, we'll pay 5k a month this month for bounties and let our customers just go out there and talk about how much they love the product. So I think that that's been really cool, again, much more of like a brand awareness thing.

Cody Plofker (25:59):

But the other thing that's really cool is then right in the app and we just started testing this. You can request the spark post and it'll literally the creator, the customer. And not even the creator will get a text saying, Hey, uh, wanna make a hundred bucks, just copy and paste this code and send it to us. And, and we'll send you a hundred bucks that's so we just got two of them back. We paid, I think we offered a hundred bucks for one, maybe 200 for the other one and we're gonna test it. Um, we're gonna test it one of these viral ones and the hooks. Aren't great. Uh, this is what I was meeting with our team about the other day. Right, right now, you know, the content, these aren't trained content creators. So they do what everybody does. Right. They're like, Hey guys, I wanna come up here and talk to you about this. You know, like, you know how everyone makes content when they don't, you know, know, so Boies kind of work with them to kind of give them, you know, more, more feedback and give them briefs on some examples of what to do specifically around hooks. Can you give people

Ash Melwani (26:52):

Briefs or at least like,

Cody Plofker (26:54):

I think so they're, they're, they're all, all kinda work working through it, obviously, cuz it's in beta. But I think, I think you'll be able to give them briefs is kind of what they're planning. Um, that way, again, like these are not ads. These are organic post ads. Then you can run a spark, which theoretically could do well. So I'm gonna test this one, even though it doesn't have a good hook, right. You, you would still think you need a great hook to go viral organically and this one went viral, so I'm gonna test it and, and you never know,

Ash Melwani (27:19):

Was that person like, did she have a good follower base

Cody Plofker (27:22):

Or no, I mean, she's got like 10, 10 K now, but, but probably had 5k before. So you know, her first few videos might have 2000 views, 3000, but it's really cool. Cuz like even in the comments she's like going to war for us and she's saying this was not an ad. Like I bought this, like it's just, it's actually U GC where like all of the UGC that, that people are doing and selling is not UGC. And I, I guess that's my only point is like, you know, I think real UGC really matters. Like if you get even like we paid a, a, a kind of a influencer to make some, some Facebook videos and like did a testimonial video and I didn't, I thought it was a terrible hook. I was not confident to test it and it crushed, it had our best thumb stop, our best watch time, some really good scale.

Cody Plofker (28:08):

And it's because the auth authenticity really showed through mm-hmm <affirmative> uh, and even though she wasn't, I didn't have the best hook in the world. Like it was so authentic. And if you guys like, I haven't done a lot of podcast ads, but what everybody talks about is like getting a good read is the most important thing. And the more genuine and authentic it is the better. And I think that's a problem with all this paid for, you know, UGC is like, it's just so scripted and it doesn't feel authentic. And I think that's what's missing.

Rabah Rahil (28:33):

So can I ask you a question outside of the authenticity? How much does the production value matter? Like lighting like camera like audio, like does it matter at all? Or does that make sense? What I'm saying? So like obviously you want the authenticity, you want the sincerity, but when I used to run my agency, yeah. We had like three amazing testimonials that were like super authentic, everything. Like, it couldn't have been better, but they were in like this fucking basement dungeon, there was a kid crying in the background. Like there was just all these like things that you it's like nails on a chalkboard listening to that. So does that at all matter or is there just kinda like a minimum threshold or kinda gimme some color there?

Cody Plofker (29:11):

I think so one, one thing I was told a while ago is that people will forgive bad video, but not bad audio. Yeah. So I think that's one thing that's important, but yeah. Yeah. It, it, it ha it can't be shit. Right. It's gotta look, you're still representing your brand. I know it's not, you know, it's direct response and it's not brand, but yeah, it's still people aren't gonna wanna watch the video or they're not gonna, if it's really so sketchy, they're, they're not gonna be, you know, confident in making a purchase from you guys. So I do think it matters, but again, like any creator or even somebody posting should know enough lighting and, and be able to do it with an iPhone, but it can't be shit.

Rabah Rahil (29:46):

Got it.

Ash Melwani (29:47):

Makes sense.

Cody Plofker (29:48):

Yeah. Ashley should try bounty. I think, I think that would be great for you. So even organically.

Ash Melwani (29:52):

Yeah. I think the biggest community. Yeah. I, yeah, I think, I think the biggest thing was, um, which I think they now added. Right. Which is just showing it on checkout or after checkout that

Cody Plofker (30:05):

Yeah. Right. You should be able to do that. I

Ash Melwani (30:06):

Didn't wanna do it on the front end.

Cody Plofker (30:08):

Same here. Same here.

Rabah Rahil (30:09):

Yeah. But yeah. Ash, can you testing in any kind of like bundle pages now that you have like the greens powder and the collagen and then the protein bars and like you have like a really nice symbiotic set of products. Right? Mm-hmm where it's not like these are these disparate things. That's like, oh, Hey, buy this, buy that. It's like, dude, this is, this all kind of aligns with like a hell great

Ash Melwani (30:30):

Taste school

Rabah Rahil (30:31):

Branding, like all these things. Like, it really makes sense where you start to change economics where, you know, your AOV goes from 60 to a hundred or something. That's that that's literally transformative where your budgets go crazy. Like everything gets, gets crazy. Right?

Ash Melwani (30:45):

Yeah. So there's, there's one thing that we're testing this week. Um, which was so we are launching, I dunno if you guys are familiar with this company, it's called I her. Um, they do a lot of international. Um, I think I know

Rabah Rahil (30:57):

It. Yeah. Correctly. I think I know it.

Ash Melwani (31:00):

Yeah. Um, they're really big for international. Um, obviously we wanna support them with advertising and stuff. Um, but it got me thinking because like on their website it would be like things I got on iHerb or even like RiteAid. Right. We might do this for RiteAid too. Um, things I got RiteAid and like ordering a bunch of stuff. So not just the collagen, it'd be like the pinks, the burn, the collagen, and to your point, buying everything and then showcasing like, this is what I got. Here's my hall from Rite aid. This does this, this does this, this does this, um, figuring out what that like journey looks like. I don't know. Um, like that's the, that's the problem, right? Cause right now everything's product focused or everything goes to a product focused landing page. Yeah. Um, we do have a build a bundle page on our website where it's like, it breaks down by category of the products and you can just add three items, get 20% off. Um, so that could be one route. Um, the other one may be just sending to the homepage or two sending to a quiz, you know? Um, but that is something that we wanna test. It's not something that we've done on Facebook very well. It's cuz it's like, as soon as you get very specific to what you're talking about, Facebook does better.

Cody Plofker (32:11):

It's hard. I agree. We seem the same. It's doable, but I don't think, I think it's more difficult. It's you know, I think you speak to a specific problem and a specific product. It's a lot easier. Yeah. But obviously like to Rob's point, like you can get the AOV a lot higher if it's, you know, you're

Ash Melwani (32:26):

Fine. Have you tried, like what have you seen work for like landing pages for something like that? Cause I would love to

Cody Plofker (32:33):

Try so, so our best, our best landing made. So what, what we have found is that setting, we can send Facebook traffic to a PDP, even on top of funnel and people will get multiple products. Uh, so solid AOV, you know, uh, TikTok, whatever reason. Again, I, my, my theory is people just wanna bounce and get right back to TikTok. Right. They'll even if they buy, they'll buy that one product AOV is just like super low. So that that's why we've tested lineages. Uh listicals so now all of our stuff goes to a, Listal like a five reasons why mm-hmm <affirmative> um, so we'll, we'll do 'em for each product that, that we're running. And then we tested that. So we tested same exact stuff, going to a PDP, going to a listical that leads to the PDP, you know, Listal that leads to the quiz. Right. And what we found, we found a few things, first of all, on the PDP we put and I posted this on Twitter. I know you saw it, the, the take the quiz, find your shade. Yeah,

Ash Melwani (33:24):


Cody Plofker (33:25):

That crushed it. We get so many more emails. I haven't, you know, tested the conversion rate of the actual PDP, but we get, I

Ash Melwani (33:32):

Have data, all that

Cody Plofker (33:33):

I'm curious. I'm curious, honestly, but so that crushed it. Um, and then just in terms of, of collecting emails, which is great top of funnel and TikTok, uh, and then there was a slight difference, but, and

Ash Melwani (33:45):

Then too is zero party data. So you can further segment

Cody Plofker (33:48):

The journey. Exactly. Yeah. And then, and then sending, uh Listal to quiz perform best, highest conversion rate and AOV was significantly higher than sending to a PDP. So I do,

Ash Melwani (33:59):

But you're talking about one product in the listical

Cody Plofker (34:02):

Right now. That's what we're running, but we have also run a li a more generic brand listical, um, that we would run. It would just be like five reasons why, you know, whatever, you're gonna love this new clean beauty line. And it would be like that. And then it would be a,

Ash Melwani (34:15):

About the

Cody Plofker (34:15):

Brand, a quiz that was more of like a, a routine finder kind of stuff like that. So instead of a shade finder for one product, we would recommend multiple products. So there is a way for you guys to do that Ash, like, and then it's not as your, your ad, your landing page is not as problem focused, which is a little bit more general, which might not convert as well. But then in the quiz, when you ask them their problems and stuff like that, then it'll spit out a recommended bundle with a little discount based on exactly what, you know, the problem they told you is, Hey, here's all of the, the stuff we recommend. If you are trying to lose weight.

Ash Melwani (34:50):

Yeah. Now you got me thinking, man.

Rabah Rahil (34:52):

<laugh> yeah. That's interesting. I think that's a little in depth for me. I would just try Listal to a prebuilt bundle and you have, I do the Listal and be like, Hey, here's the bundle you, because I'd love where you're going with it. Cody. I think that's,

Cody Plofker (35:05):

That would also be like a reliable product

Rabah Rahil (35:08):

Way to think of it. Well, cause that's the problem with bundle builders. There's a lot of cognitive load. Like if I don't know what I want anyways, then how the hell am I gonna? And that's

Cody Plofker (35:17):

What the

Rabah Rahil (35:17):

Is great decisions. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. The quiz is great, but then that's an extra step, whereas I can just get you on social proof. Have you eat up the list of the five reasons why? And then boom, by the way, here's the solution to the problem that I just, uh, you know, reinstated with this social, how it's been solved. The thing is brilliant. I don't don't get me wrong, but for you, I think it could be really interesting to have. Cause you have so many cool again, symbiotic products. That's like, yeah, here's a prebuilt bundle. Boom, go here, go here. And then like you can get in the flavor profiles, but the flavor profiles, I think are it right where you just give the best flavors together, like the best selling flavors. And then for whatever reason, if they do wanna get new ones, but a lot of times they're gonna like that flavor. And then worst case, they come back and change and try a new flavor. But the best selling flavors are usually the best selling for flavors for a reason.

Ash Melwani (36:03):

Exactly. And the thing that, the things I'll probably try is what you said, quiz for sure. And then I'll, I'm gonna try the bundle builder. I'm you're probably right. That there's too much on there where it probably won't work, but then just going straight to like the preset bundle. Yeah. With like a landing page, kind of like you're not explaining everything else. So I think those I'll I'll check in with you guys after <laugh>

Rabah Rahil (36:25):

Yeah. On three. So, cause I can prove code your own

Cody Plofker (36:28):

Show. I would love that. I would love that. Yeah. No. The reason why I think quiz can work, not, not has to is you're right, because, because of the cognitive load. No, but, but the bundle can, again, the quiz, isn't the only way to reduce cognitive load a bundle builder can do it because what's gonna happen is on TikTok. They're not gonna go and, and check out other products and be like, oh, you know, I came here for this collagen, what else can I get? Which I bet they do that on Facebook a little bit, you know? But on TikTok, they're not gonna do it. They're gonna take that one. So you have to do

Ash Melwani (36:57):

Whenever they saw in the video is what they want. That's what you're

Cody Plofker (37:00):

Looking for because you have to do the work for them because on tip TikTok, when they're browsing, all of the work is being done for them. They're not even choosing who to follow. It's just shown for them. You know? And, and there's a swiping, the quiz does that, all they're doing is hitting some buttons and then you're literally taking all the cognitive load away to use, you know, Robert's phrase. And you're literally saying, Hey, based on what you told me, this is what I recommend. This gives them confidence in what to buy.

Ash Melwani (37:24):

No, we see it all the time too. Like specific videos that do well. Like if it's a flavor like specific like peanut butter cups, right. If that is the flavor in the video, that is what sells. Even though you have five other flavors. So it's like, it's cool

Cody Plofker (37:37):

Versus Facebook it's different,

Ash Melwani (37:39):

Right? Yeah, exactly. They buy whatever, but this is where it's like, you can pull a lever and it's like, well, if Ron goes, Hey, we have too much of this flavor, then boom, let's make a TikTok with that flavor. And it'll, it'll go out the door. Um, so that, that's where I think TikTok is cool. Cuz there's so many things you can kind of, kind of do to obviously fix not issues in your business, but like if you need to move certain, you know, inventory, I think it's easier to do it on TikTok than Facebook.

Rabah Rahil (38:05):

Okay. Here's the big brain move. Have somebody seed the comment with what's your favorite bundle or something like that, either video reply to that comment. And then you run that to the prebuilt bundle page list,

Cody Plofker (38:18):

Done deal.

Ash Melwani (38:20):

Gimme two weeks, gimme two weeks. And we'll uh, we'll show the results on that.

Cody Plofker (38:24):

<laugh> um, Ash, what were you saying about,

Rabah Rahil (38:27):


Cody Plofker (38:27):

Ahead. One question. What you said you had some data on the, the conversion rate of quiz on PDP. Yeah. Hold on.

Ash Melwani (38:33):

What you got, pull it up. I, I um, okay, so this has only been running for, I think four days now. Um, typically, so we're running on Google optimize, basically just some, some pretext. Um, we added something to our product page, like right above the price, right by the title. It's like, not sure if this is right for you. Right. Um, the most common question we get is, well, there's so many products. What do I get? Um, obviously if you're coming outside of like landing pages where it's so focused on one, um, you come to the website, you go to a product page and it's like, well, is this really for me? Um, so we, we did an AB test of showing the quiz versus not, um, again, only been four days. Typically we want get at least 10,000 sessions per variant to like really make a decision right now it's at 5,000. Um, the revenue procession with the quiz is up 13%. Oh. Um, conversion rate is up 8%. Oh wow. Um, AOV is almost the same. It was $75 versus 72. Um, which is, could be fair,

Cody Plofker (39:40):

Slightly up on the quiz or slightly up on

Ash Melwani (39:41):

The other, slightly up on the quiz.

Cody Plofker (39:43):

Okay. Okay. That's yeah. I would've thought AOV is up. I wouldn't have been surprised if conversion rate was down, but I'm also not surprised it was up. Definitely

Ash Melwani (39:51):

There, everything, everything was up across all the statistics. Fantastic. Stok um, but here's

Cody Plofker (39:57):

Cost for email sign up

Ash Melwani (39:59):

That. So I haven't, I haven't dove into that yet. I'll have to I'll

Cody Plofker (40:03):

Crushes it for us.

Ash Melwani (40:05):

Like we have to build it out. So

Cody Plofker (40:08):

Yeah, no, totally. We build,

Ash Melwani (40:10):

We're getting a ton. Um, that's the problem because now here here's where I'm like also trying to be like, okay, now let me read the data on the quiz. Right. Um, we have, I, I duplicated our quiz three times, right. So like I have one on the homepage, one on the nav and then one on the product page so I can get different stats. Um, I did a as AB test between the one and the nav and like the homepage where I removed certain like dropout points where like, oh, um, I think we, I removed phone number. Right. Just so that it just clears it up. Um, and it increased completion by like the completion with the phone number was 72% without phone number was 80%, but they were still given their emails.

Cody Plofker (40:52):

That's about what we're we don't, we don't get phone number. Yeah.

Rabah Rahil (40:55):

Do you guys require the phone number or just give

Ash Melwani (40:57):

The option? Put it in? No, it said no thanks. Right. But people just drop off. Yeah. And like there's certain question, which is really cool, which is why I really like octane, um, is that you can see on each question where people are dropping off. Yeah. So I was looking today this morning, there's a question that ask people, like, what do you like to do? Like what do you do on a day to day basis? Um, where there was heavy drop off and it's like, okay, let's just remove that question cuz we don't necessarily need it, but it could have been good for us later down the line for that. Like if you wanna segment based on that. But like, all I have to do is remove that and our completion probably goes up by like a ton more. Right.

Cody Plofker (41:34):

Let's dope.

Ash Melwani (41:36):

I'm gonna start texting that stuff.

Cody Plofker (41:37):

Check out, like look at and triple out your like cost per email, sign up and an email conversion rate if you're sending any traffic to PDPs. Yeah. Uh, any and yeah, it's, it's pretty crazy just by adding that, right? Like you go from like a $70 cost per email to like a $10 cost per email, even cheaper on, on, uh, that's crazy on TikTok

Rabah Rahil (41:55):

Those numbers. Those numbers sound great though. That's fantastic. No,

Ash Melwani (41:58):

I, our, our quiz revenue was 10% of total revenue yesterday, which was

Rabah Rahil (42:05):

Shout up and car, come on

Ash Melwani (42:07):

First. I've seen that like before, when it was just on the homepage, but it was kind of far further down. It didn't really like make a dent, but now adding it to the nav where a lot of our customers go and on the PDP, I mean 10% is crazy. And our, our conversion rate overall this week was up. So I mean, it has to, has to be doing something

Rabah Rahil (42:26):

That's incredible. Um, alright boys, let's wrap this up. Cody, tell the people how they can get involved with Jones road. How can they get involved with you, your newsletter and then Ash, you'll wrap it up.

Cody Plofker (42:37):

Yeah. We are hiring a lot of positions. If, if I can plug those real quick project manager, like a marketing project manager, uh, affiliate marketing manager, always like videographer video editor, uh, social coordinator, uh, copywriter, really anything you can think of, just hit me up. Um, email me at Cody Jonesborough, beauty.com. I'm on Twitter at Cody and then sign up for the newsletter, uh, Lincoln bio, but it's koker.com/newsletter. And if you're in Miami for geek out, uh, say what's up,

Rabah Rahil (43:08):

Let's go drop the, uh, job job res in, uh, Norwell nation on the drug board. There

Cody Plofker (43:14):

Will do. Thank

Rabah Rahil (43:15):

You. And then you're also on mentor pass. If you wanna buy some Cody's time, I'll go to mentor, pass.com.

Cody Plofker (43:20):

Appreciate that. Sure.

Ash Melwani (43:22):

Um, I'm on Twitter, follow me. It just hit 10 K, which is finally,

Rabah Rahil (43:26):

Let's go

Ash Melwani (43:27):

Excited about that. Lets go. Kids. Um, yeah, follow me on Twitter Astri Mowan if you need some collagen, my.com or go to your shops, vitamin shop, um, and proud to announce. I am now also on mentor pass with the two of you guys. Um, so if you, if you ever feel like you need some of my time, anything marketing related, paid related, um, I'm on there. Uh, link is in my bio on Twitter and uh, that's it for me.

Rabah Rahil (43:54):

Beautiful. Thank you boys. If you guys wanna get more involved at triple let's, try triple.com. We have a sensation newsletter. It goes out every Tuesday, Thursday called whale mail subscribe right on our Twitter bio at triple. Um, I'll be hosting a panel with these beautiful gentlemen at, uh, Miami, as well as giving a little talk on some data. And then I'm also on mentor pass. If you want me to be able to afford more of these fun sneakers, we see back here co some my time, the proceeds will go to my sneakers, fellas. Thanks so much super excited to see you, uh, in Miami. I was really that picture, but you look great. Look fantastic. Um, thanks again so much for your time. And then if you want to tell a friend about ad spend, have more people subscribe, support the podcast. Love.

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